Old 07-18-2020, 03:42 PM   #41
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I don't know if it's been mentioned, but a big improvement would be DFD mode (direct From disk).
In't that the cache setting ?
Lowering it to 0 should make everything DFD right ?
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Old 07-18-2020, 03:59 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by FeedTheCat View Post
If you are not afraid to get your hands dirty you could just edit the scripts yourself. You only have to replace one line. Find this (around line 24?)
Fixed and submitted a pull request to MPL via GitHub. Hopefully, it will be fixed and updated very soon in everyone's Reaper via ReaPack. Thanks a ton FeedTheCat!
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Old 07-18-2020, 08:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
It isn't always wise to point to other DAWs for improvement ideas, but it feels like in this case Ableton flat-out has the sample thing nailed, and could provide some guidance.

Of course it plays directly into the modular-see-everything-on-screen workflow that is unique to Ableton, but some ideas can be lifted from that that could work easily in Reaper.

It really is a beautiful thing to pull a sample into arrange, and immediately it's accessible as a playable sample, with full sampler control directly and immediately available to you. It really fosters a creative "do cool stuff with sound" environment that fully explains Ableton's dominance in 'sound-designy' genres.

Some of the latest pre improvements are encroaching on this though! I feel that the more integrated / accessible RS5k can be, the better.

The closer to "sick sample, lemme do stuff with it" we can get, the better. Every step that gets between this and starting to make sounds (load a sampler, drag the sample to it, arm the track, create a midi item, draw in notes, etc) is a step slowing down the creative process, and IMO should be specifically aimed at being eliminated.
What is in your opinion that is still missing other then the sampler it self?

I can see missing time stretch, maybe allow media in project to open in new sampler and slicing
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Old 07-18-2020, 10:28 PM   #44
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In't that the cache setting ?
Lowering it to 0 should make everything DFD right ?
No, I don't think so. It says "Cache samples smaller than: [64]mb".

I just did a test by loading an old SMDrums program I made 5 years ago, it had about 1.17GB of samples.

I'm very happy to say when I saved it, it did not re-save the samples, which is very good.

Then I saved it again and this time I checked the "Copy all media into project directory", and it indeed
copied all the samples.

However, I discovered another little problem with RS5K. 5 years ago I created 4 different versions of
SMDrums in RS5K. This was so that folks could pick the best one for their computer specs.

SMDrums (1400)
SMDrums (1600)
SMDrums (2600)
SMDrums (7100)

For this test I loaded the SMDrums (2600) version. Back when I made those programs the "SMDrums (2600)"
actually only had 1.17GB of samples but in Reaper it used 2.6GB of RAM. That was bad enough, but look what
it's doing today, it shows 5.184GB. Task Manager also reflects these numbers and I don't understand why?



I'm a developer of instruments for Kontakt so I don't use RS5K, but often I have some freebies that I would
like to give to my Reaper friends, but because of the of the lack of controls it's impossible to do that.
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Old 07-19-2020, 02:00 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
I can see missing time stretch, maybe allow media in project to open in new sampler and slicing
Yeap detect transients and slice to transients, then each slice corresponds to different note.

About stretch, how about if we could add stretch markers ?
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Old 07-19-2020, 06:28 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Win Conway View Post
No, any automatic saving/moving/duplicating of samples is a no no, its very very simple, make it an option, done.
My point was that the option should be per file or per RS5K instance. Hence the suggested shortcut, so to say. Referring to a certain sample file by absolute or project-relative pathname could be an easy way to specify it should be saved within the project folder or not. Of course, other ways could work even better - such as a simple per-instance checkbox.
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Old 07-19-2020, 06:34 AM   #47
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Great discussion.

I really like the rendition in the first post. I would just replace "max" and "min" buttons for volume and velocity since for me everything should be from left to right regarding the strength of some effect.

I haven't noticed if someone mentioned a sorely missing root note autolearn from MIDI keyboard? That's one of the things that I'd find very useful because every time I load a sample I have to change it by hand. Maybe it's been implemented with scripting already?

Automatic finding of zero-crossing points whilst playing a loop would be incredibly useful, as well as automatic finding the top volume points, since they sometimes make better looping choice. I've never seen a sampler with that function [and I love samplers with passion, still have a rack full of them], and it is very useful.

An obvious buttons for changing the samples would be wonderful, too, regardless the up/down key working [in win], because sometimes you don't have a keyboard handy. I do almost everything with MIDI controllers. Well, I'll look up those scripts and assign them to a MIDI CC. :P That's great.

Regarding saving samples, I think there should be an option to save them with a project or not, because sometimes it is needed and sometimes not. It really should be optional and very useful!

Cheers!
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Old 07-19-2020, 06:40 AM   #48
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I haven't noticed if someone mentioned a sorely missing root note autolearn from MIDI keyboard? That's one of the things that I'd find very useful because every time I load a sample I have to change it by hand. Maybe it's been implemented with scripting already?
double click the "note start" and "note end" param before hitting a key.

or, if you are like me and don't want to reach for a mouse, write a script that watches a Midi Examiner JS on a dummy track with your midi input. when run, the script looks at the "note number" data byte on that track, and then prints those values into the RS5K instance in question
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Old 07-19-2020, 07:38 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
No, I don't think so. It says "Cache samples smaller than: [64]mb".
Just tested it and it does what I said.
1 Loaded a 20mb sample, it loads to RAM, can be seen in RAM usage.
2 Changed cache samples smaller to 10mb and the RAM use goes down because the loaded sample is bigger than the cache and is run from disk.

You have to keep in mind here that it is individual samples, not groups of samples, so a single sample smaller than 64mb will be run from RAM.

Edit*
Just checked.
Also samples are only copied and moved in to the project folder when the user request that via copy or move on save, otherwise samples just stay in their respective homes.
So both of those can be crossed off the list.
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Old 07-19-2020, 07:50 AM   #50
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Open in editor action, as per the normal audio tracks in Reaper, in fact lets expand it to two actions.
1 Open in audio editor (As the name suggests)
2 Edit as track (Creates a faux Reaper audio track, you can use whatever edit tools you like to rearrange the audio, updates audio in the sample when you close)
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:05 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
double click the "note start" and "note end" param before hitting a key.
That does nothing here ?
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:15 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
i miss being able to apply velocity to more than just the amp envelope. in the MPC series, velocity and attack were often linked, so that softer strikes resulted in a more gentle sounding attack.
As per this suggestion, but this may be way past the developers ideas for the plugin, if there was a pitch AD or ADSR, and assignable velocity, you could do away with the need for a lot of drum multi samples, it is surprising how realistic the set up of velocity like this is.....
Softer Velocity
Lowers amp Decay
Raises amp Attack
Lowers Pitch AD amount (AD used to create a fast attack pitch change to create harder transient)
Harder Velocity
Raises amp Decay
Lowers amp Attack
Raises Pitch AD amount (AD used to create a fast attack pitch change to create harder transient)

But again, this may be beyond the developers idea, that's why an audio input to modulate the pitch would do just as well.
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:22 AM   #53
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That does nothing here ?
sorry, i mispoke - double clicking those knobs makes them default to the last received midi note. so, instead of

1- double click param knob
2- hit desired note

the working behavior is

1- hit desired note
2- double click param knob
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:47 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
sorry, i mispoke - double clicking those knobs makes them default to the last received midi note. so, instead of

1- double click param knob
2- hit desired note

the working behavior is

1- hit desired note
2- double click param knob
But that isn't root note ?
Note start and end set the upper and lower limits of the note range, pitch start is root note, and that doesn't set to last received MIDI note when double clicked, not here at least, Win 10.
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Old 07-19-2020, 09:06 AM   #55
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ah! correct, i mistook the question.
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Old 07-19-2020, 09:09 AM   #56
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ah! correct, i mistook the question.
To be fair, anybody would assume that it would work the same way anyway.
I have updated the first post to show this.
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Old 07-19-2020, 02:34 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Win Conway View Post
Just tested it and it does what I said.
1 Loaded a 20mb sample, it loads to RAM, can be seen in RAM usage.
2 Changed cache samples smaller to 10mb and the RAM use goes down because the loaded sample is bigger than the cache and is run from disk.

You have to keep in mind here that it is individual samples, not groups of samples, so a single sample smaller than 64mb will be run from RAM.

Edit*
Just checked.
Also samples are only copied and moved in to the project folder when the user request that via copy or move on save, otherwise samples just stay in their respective homes.
So both of those can be crossed off the list.
Humm, I'm not getting the same result, I changed the Cache from 64MB to 32 MB on 43 instances of RS5K and
the performance meter stayed the same. After I changed the Cache I saved and closed Reaper, then re-booted
my computer and loaded Reaper again.

I'm not sure why, but today when I opened the same project that showed 5.185GB in the Performance Meter
yesterday, shows 2.654GB today?



Quote:
You have to keep in mind here that it is individual samples, not groups of samples, so a single sample smaller than 64mb will be run from RAM.
Yeah, but it's going to be hard to find samples that are less then 64MB.

I also want to say thanks Win Conway, for making the tests. Otherwise I wouldn't have checked this.
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Old 07-20-2020, 08:42 AM   #58
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Nearly every sample I own is less than 64mb?
16/44 that is over six minutes of stereo audio or 4 minutes of stereo audio at 24/48.
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Old 07-20-2020, 08:52 AM   #59
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FYI there is a slight discrepancy, if you load a 20.2mb sample for instance, non of the figures really line up, so RAM usage will go up 26mb, but to get RAM out of the cache and to play from disk, you have to set Cache limit to 25mb.
This could well be expected behaviour with the decompression of the wav file in to a RAW format or something, not sure, if the developers don't see this post I will email them to get any extra info.
See .gif.

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Old 07-20-2020, 08:58 AM   #60
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Yeah I would say there is actually a slight issue with the DFD, tried it multiple times by restarting, sometimes you need 27mb sometimes you need 26mb, sometimes you need 28mb as Cache level to make it run from disk.

I think a simplified run from DFD switch is much more preferable.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #61
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I'd like to see built-in Choke groups myself. I know we can work around this by using the MIDI Choke FX, but it would be much easier to just have a choke group dropdown, select a group #, then have that apply to all instances across the current project.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:23 AM   #62
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Seeing as how we have spectral editing an audio file, how about spectral editing samples in RS5K? Like Izotope Iris (which I have but it's laggy and seemingly abandoned).

This, just like timestretch, is already available for audio files in Reaper so it seems that it could be possible in the sampler.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:32 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Yeap detect transients and slice to transients, then each slice corresponds to different note.

About stretch, how about if we could add stretch markers ?
well that would be amazing would be top edge vanguard
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Old 07-22-2020, 11:28 PM   #64
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This is so simple and subtle, but one of the biggest reasons I don't use RS5k is that there's no "previous/next" button immediately available to cycle through all the samples in a folder while the beat plays, zeroing in on the perfect kick/snare in context.
There is a way to do this with mpl actions. Look my postato find a solution as I can’t remember the exact name
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Win Conway View Post
Nearly every sample I own is less than 64mb?
16/44 that is over six minutes of stereo audio or 4 minutes of stereo audio at 24/48.
Oh yes Win, I'm sorry I'm used to kontakt and Sforzando so I was thinking in "kb".

So what would happen if you set the Cache to 6.4MB, which would = 60KB which I've got Kontakt set for? Actually on Sfozando I use 32KB and haven't had a problem with it.
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:21 PM   #66
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Oh yes Win, I'm sorry I'm used to kontakt and Sforzando so I was thinking in "kb".

So what would happen if you set the Cache to 6.4MB, which would = 60KB which I've got Kontakt set for? Actually on Sfozando I use 32KB and haven't had a problem with it.
If you set the cache to 6.4mb, any sample smaller than 6.4mb will be played from RAM, any sample above 6.4mb will play off the disk (taking the variance I noted above in to account)
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:00 PM   #67
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If you set the cache to 6.4mb, any sample smaller than 6.4mb will be played from RAM, any sample above 6.4mb will play off the disk (taking the variance I noted above in to account)
I haven't had a chance to check that setting out, so if you or anyone want to has a chance to check that out
it would be great. If indeed that works as a DFD, that will be a huge, huge boost and addvantage for RS5K.

Remember, it has to be 6.4MB.
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #68
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I ave checked the setting and posted the results above, I tested with a 22mb sample, I will try to test with a 6.4mb sample tomorrow.
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:09 PM   #69
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I ave checked the setting and posted the results above, I tested with a 22mb sample, I will try to test with a 6.4mb sample tomorrow.
I found some time today and checked a project using RS5K that used 7175MB which is 7.175GB.

First of all I was of course incorrect, 6.4MB is just that 6,400,000. It would have to be .64MB, but
RS5K will not accept decimal amounts.

So I used 1MB and put that in all the crash and ride cymbals. It changed the the RAM use from 7175MB
to 4103MB, which is very good. However, I sure wished we could use decimals, that would put it in camp
with all the rest of the samplers out there that have DFD.

I tried .6MB a few times but it was automatically changed to 6MB.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:29 PM   #70
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Not at a computer but did you try a leading zero ?
0.6mb ?
I do supect it will round up though anyway.
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Old 02-10-2021, 01:39 PM   #71
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+5000 for Multisample, Timestretch, GUI


edit: I‘m sorry.. I thought this was a feature request!
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Old 02-10-2021, 05:07 PM   #72
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I would very much like to see some sort of 'TIME' switch for portamento like the one in TAL-Sampler: it changes the portamento to have a uniform portamento time regardless of distance, instead of the the-farther-you-go-the-longer-it-takes portamento RS5K has now.

It's the only reason I prefer the TAL-Sampler to RS5K for basses.

I actually made a feature request about this some time ago:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=245721

EDIT: spelling

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Old 06-30-2021, 02:49 PM   #73
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Glad to find a thread page dedicated to RS5k.

Lots of great feature suggestions in here; I thought I was the only one interested in a more integrated sampler solution in REAPER.

I here advocate the introduction of multi samples to the plug-in, specially for melodic instruments. And of course, response to foot pedal and CC controls.

Auto mapping of root keys and automatically set the trigger mode to follow midi notes for such instruments. Root keys can be detected via the file name, something like for example: Mellotron Flute_C4.

For a giga set of instruments, and I think it's already the case here, FLAC files may be used since they are losslessly compressed and will never deteriorate quality. Native Instruments already does it for their libraries; all packed with their NCW format. So those willing to program instruments with lots of information would use the FLAC instead of PCM-uncompressed formats; this way is possible to give high quality without compromising performance.

I love the idea of the mute group for drums. And maybe this mute group could allow the same functionality of MIDI choke, but without having to insert the MIDI choke before the drums that will serve the purpose.

I want to take the time to ask a question for a experienced RS5k user that could check into the technical details of it.

Recently I've loaded a set of drum samples that I have here, from the NDK library (www.naturaldrum.com). They are HALion4 / Kontakt compatible and the samples are open in WAV. None of the samplers I have here are compatible with the library so I loaded the WAVs manually.

I loaded a set of kick samples that are velocity sensitive and I've noticed that I could play the kick without problems, all dynamically set. Does the plug-in adjust the velocities accordingly based on the number of samples?

Actually, I'll be happy to see a full-featured RS5k. With lots of improvements and enhancements I'm sure that many would step to develop stuff for the sampler and give REAPER users an alternative solution when it comes to build an arsenal of sounds.

Plus, the fact that this plug-in is very accessible for blind users that use screen readers to navigate the system and, consequently, the REAPER platform, makes up for a great choice of sampler to use in conjunction with the DAW. The workflow on the other samplers are not the same for this group of people if they want to dive into the idea of peaking a sample to edit and build custom sounds and similar stuff, and RS5k allows full control without breaking access.

I'll follow this thread religiously until we see RS5k gaining more life, the same way that media explorer is today.

Peace,

Edu Camargo.
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Old 03-06-2022, 05:20 AM   #74
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Quote:
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From the pres it seems over time Cockos may be looking to make RS5K a bit more usable in some areas, Sample based music is my thing, so I wanted to start a discussion to cover any stuff that comes up in the pres.

I am not a huge fan of the way we set loop points and stuff on the display, even since they have been tidied a bit, so I have done a mock up just to push some ideas out, while I was in there I put all the other controls I the right sort of order they should be in, just to tidy them up, the only thing I added in the controls was a fine tune, which it could do with, everything else is as standard, just a bit better laid out, the original seems to be laid out for older square monitors, so I widened it a bit.

As a simple sampler it has most things needed, just some things need tidying and a slightly better UI for loop points and start end etc.





1 Ruler at the top, so you can snap to beats for setting start/end and loop points.
2 Change pitch start to Root and allow users to pick an actual note.
3 ADSR in the correct order and remove the ADSR overlay on the display.
4 Change Pitch offset to tune and add fine (Cents)
5 Move the probability stuff in to the list.
6 Something like an audio in to the pitch, this could be used with an audio based JS envelope or such to get a simple pitch envelope for transient design of sample starts.

The rest is all stock, just aligned all the dials and text and such.

I will add in the suggestions from the thread here and keep it updated.

Filter section
Multi samples
Previous/Next sample Buttons (MPL Scripts available)
Hold and curves added to envelope
Velocity to attack (Preferably routable velocity)
Arrange style edits to waveform view
Wavetable/granular/freeze/purity (Not sure if this was actually a serious post, but hey ho)
Pitch offset changed to real tune dial (Currently makes noise when moving)
Loop modes (forward/backward/ping pong)
Native manager (See MPL RS5K manager)
Timestretch
Autolearn Root note (Press appropriate key on MIDI input, same as the note range can be set now)
Auto loop cross points (Zero and Max)
Change cache level to a simpler "DfD" tick box.


Other things discussed but actually already in place.
Saving sample with project as option, already fully implemented in the usual Reaper way, using copy or move per save.
Would really love to see that in rsk5, the reason why I don't use it is the lack of such essential functions as root note...well, thats a big no for me.
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Old 03-06-2022, 12:37 PM   #75
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I'd give anything to see RS5K suffering a huge upgrade.

I use it as a drum machine for the drum samples I have here, but would love to see it becoming a one-stop place to manage multi samples, response to damper pedal and lots of stuff.
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Old 03-07-2022, 03:35 AM   #76
sijam
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A bump from me too. I'd love to see updated multi-sample support, a filter section and finer control of the pitch offset dial (I often automate it but the scale is way too cumbersome in the automation lane)
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Old 03-07-2022, 03:55 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway View Post
Filter section
Multi samples
Previous/Next sample Buttons (MPL Scripts available)
Hold and curves added to envelope
Velocity to attack (Preferably routable velocity)
Arrange style edits to waveform view
Wavetable/granular/freeze/purity (Not sure if this was actually a serious post, but hey ho)
Pitch offset changed to real tune dial (Currently makes noise when moving)
Loop modes (forward/backward/ping pong)
Native manager (See MPL RS5K manager)
Timestretch
Autolearn Root note (Press appropriate key on MIDI input, same as the note range can be set now)
Auto loop cross points (Zero and Max)
Change cache level to a simpler "DfD" tick box.
+100000000!!!

I 'm hoping all of the above to be added in the future. And a granular engine would make it soooo powerful for sound design.
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Old 03-07-2022, 07:29 AM   #78
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So is everyone else cool with the knobs being implemented in a way that is different from every other piece of audio software in existence?

Last edited by orbitfold; 03-07-2022 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 03-08-2022, 06:45 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbitfold View Post
So is everyone else cool with the knobs being implemented in a way that is different from every other piece of audio software in existence?
haha you mean like how trying to use RS5K's pitch offset knob is like shoving an angry cat into a small cardboard box? because no

1) the "fine" pitch control movement is 16 cents (?) per pixel instead of 1 cent per several pixels and

2) and "not fine" pitch control movement is 64 cents (??) per pixel instead of 1 semitone per several pixels

every other sampler i've ever seen gives users 1 semitone for unmodified adjustment and 1 cent for "fine" control. 16c and 64c just seem like they were quick and convenient divisions of 1024/x, and as a result, RS5K's pitch offset knob defies real use. if a guitar tuning knob had a "fine" resolution of 16c, it'd be firewood in no time.

as a workaround, you could look at MPL's rs5k manager additional plugins, which give scripts that allow for +/- 1c, 10c and 1 semitone rs5k pitch adjustments, in addition to +/- 1ms, 10ms, etc adjustments for all envelopes. i had to pad these actions out a little with my own scripts in order to get the full functionality i wanted, but now at least i don't have to touch RS5K's knobs anymore.
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|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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Old 03-08-2022, 06:58 AM   #80
orbitfold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
haha you mean like how trying to use RS5K's pitch offset knob is like shoving an angry cat into a small cardboard box? because no

1) the "fine" pitch control movement is 16 cents (?) per pixel instead of 1 cent per several pixels and

2) and "not fine" pitch control movement is 64 cents (??) per pixel instead of 1 semitone per several pixels

every other sampler i've ever seen gives users 1 semitone for unmodified adjustment and 1 cent for "fine" control. 16c and 64c just seem like they were quick and convenient divisions of 1024/x, and as a result, RS5K's pitch offset knob defies real use. if a guitar tuning knob had a "fine" resolution of 16c, it'd be firewood in no time.

as a workaround, you could look at MPL's rs5k manager additional plugins, which give scripts that allow for +/- 1c, 10c and 1 semitone rs5k pitch adjustments, in addition to +/- 1ms, 10ms, etc adjustments for all envelopes. i had to pad these actions out a little with my own scripts in order to get the full functionality i wanted, but now at least i don't have to touch RS5K's knobs anymore.
That's only part of it. Why do they behave seemingly at random depending where you click on them? Just open any synth or vst plug-in that has knobs, observe and implement it *exactly* the same way. There is no place for innovation with basic GUI features. They are supposed to act consistently across all software. So a) it should do absolutely nothing when you click on it b) dragging is relative only to the current value of the knob and nothing else.
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