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Old 08-27-2013, 04:49 AM   #1
Anomaly
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Default FYI: New surround panning tool for Reaper

Greetings,

If you are working with 5.1 surround setup, you might find this little tool usable.



Might be usable for non-surround setups too. You could put different FX to Lf, Rf, Ls and Rs output channels and sweep between them.

More info here.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:21 AM   #2
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Nice work, I'll check it out when I have a minute. I personally think leveraging these kinds of flexible features in Reaper (JS, routing, reascript) is a good way to demonstrate it's capability in areas like post and surround.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:01 AM   #3
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OK, so the added features are the autopan features? Cool!

Hmmm...
Tried to download. Got a Unix executable file named Surround Pan. (nothing with a .vst or .component)

Is this supposed to be an installer?
Web page says to put it in Reaper/FX in the Reaper app bundle in the program files folder (applications).

Odd but OK...
Dragged it into Reaper/Contents/Plugins/FX

Doesn't work. Or more instruction needed.

I see a jsfx.dylib in that Plugins folder. Alright so these JS plugins work like the Waves stuff and this is the 'shell' file or whatever it's called?

Where does the plugin file itself go for these?

Last edited by serr; 08-27-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Where does the plugin file itself go for these?
In Reaper go to "Options/Show REAPER resource path in exploere/finder..."

Copy the Surround Pan folder into the Effects folder in that directory. The effect should show up immediately in Reaper.

It's a JS effect which means it's actually a plain text file. The only reason it shows up as a unix executable is because it has no file extension.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plush2 View Post
In Reaper go to "Options/Show REAPER resource path in exploere/finder..."

Copy the Surround Pan folder into the Effects folder in that directory. The effect should show up immediately in Reaper.

It's a JS effect which means it's actually a plain text file. The only reason it shows up as a unix executable is because it has no file extension.
Aha. 'Effects' not 'FX'. There it is! Thanks!

For anyone else not in the know, that path is:
~/Library/Application Support/Reaper/Effects (note the ~)
NOT in the app bundle under FX as suggest on their webpage.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
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OK, so the added features are the autopan features? Cool!
Hmmm...
Tried to download. Got a Unix executable file named Surround Pan. (nothing with a .vst or .component)
Compared to ReaSurround, this also gives you control over pan law. For example you can place your sound sources freely anywhere on the surround field and have equal output level intensity.
Automated pan is another addition. Of course ReaSurround has other specific features that are not available in Surround Pan.

Hopefully your installation went ok.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:34 PM   #7
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I assume there are some really nice surround products like this, but with more bells and whistles, like giving the locations momentum or follow along predefined pathways?

This is getting really fun.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:53 PM   #8
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this is really cool! love looking at the lil guy cruise around the screen. i only have 2 speakers but it works great after some tweaking.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomaly View Post
Compared to ReaSurround, this also gives you control over pan law. For example you can place your sound sources freely anywhere on the surround field and have equal output level intensity.
Automated pan is another addition. Of course ReaSurround has other specific features that are not available in Surround Pan.

Hopefully your installation went ok.
I like it! Thanks for the tip

As soon as I figured out the output defaulted to 5.1, I re-pinned for my 4.0 and have my guitar spinning around the room. All is well here.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:29 PM   #10
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Thanks for this!

It sounds quite binauraul in plain old stereo, with the pan hard left or right. The wandering option will be extremely cool with a solo fadeout at the end of a track.

I'll be checking out your other offerings!
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #11
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Ha!

Cruise and speed - clever stuff!
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #12
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This is great! It's very functional and responsive to automation. The sliders for position need to be enabled for automation first but after that dragging the dot with the mouse does a great job. As I recall this is an unavoidable quirk of JS.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:33 AM   #13
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Really useful, I like the wandering/cruising and center level control...very cool.

The Speed control looks like it is not calibrated right...the center line is off to the right on mine, and a speed of 60 doesn't look the same when the slider is fully left vs fully right. I'm also wondering whether it would be better to have the speed increase outward from the center, as opposed to jump from 0 to maximum and then decrease.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:24 AM   #14
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Wonderful, thanks
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathiasGrunwaldt View Post
The Speed control looks like it is not calibrated right...the center line is off to the right on mine, and a speed of 60 doesn't look the same when the slider is fully left vs fully right. I'm also wondering whether it would be better to have the speed increase outward from the center, as opposed to jump from 0 to maximum and then decrease.
The speed control is calibrated according to the rotation mode, where the value represents how many seconds one full circle takes. With other modes it is not so evident but I decided to keep the same sec/round label.

The speed scale goes from -60 to 60, which means that negative values will change the direction in rotation and cruising mode. The default value is 5 instead of 0. Zero means that there is no speed at all, thus the pointer doesn't move.

You are absolutely correct, it would be better to have speed increasing when moving the slider away from center. Unfortunately that would kill the sec/round idea. I'll have to think about some alternative scale for speed. Originally I had additional selector for rotation direction, but I wanted to save screen space.

Thanks all for the feedback.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomaly View Post
The speed control is calibrated according to the rotation mode, where the value represents how many seconds one full circle takes. With other modes it is not so evident but I decided to keep the same sec/round label.

The speed scale goes from -60 to 60, which means that negative values will change the direction in rotation and cruising mode. The default value is 5 instead of 0. Zero means that there is no speed at all, thus the pointer doesn't move.

You are absolutely correct, it would be better to have speed increasing when moving the slider away from center. Unfortunately that would kill the sec/round idea. I'll have to think about some alternative scale for speed. Originally I had additional selector for rotation direction, but I wanted to save screen space.

Thanks all for the feedback.
Hey, cool - thanks for sharing! This reminds me of a REAKTOR ensemble I built myself ages ago that also panned and auto-rotated sounds across multiple surround channels. Re: alternative scale for speed: in my case, I linked the rotation speed parameter linked to musical time, not absolute time, so you can make it e.g. complete one full cycle every 3/16th note. (I also had a separate parameter for distance from center, rather than X/Y amplitude/offset parameters.)

Btw, imho, don't worry about saving screen space too much - you can always hide them from view later on, or redesign the GUI to use less space.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:54 AM   #17
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Thanks Anomaly. This works great in stereo too.
Here's a simple example.
Set your track to 6 channels (I killed the inputs for channels 3-6, don't know whether this is necessary).
Modulate L&R with an LFO, and do the same for F&B using slightly different settings. I used the Amplitude X&Y controls as a guage for the LFO settings.
Put a reverb after the surround plug and set its in pins to 5&6 and its out pins to 1&2.
Sit back and listen to the organic swirl.
Nice plugin.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:48 AM   #18
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I have updated the plugin. File location is the same as in my first post.

- Speed control is now corresponding to RPM (rounds per minute). Official range is -60 to 60, but you can type anything you like.

- I have also added couple of new automation modes.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #19
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Absolutely brilliant. You have made my day

Bee in a box, ha!
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:18 AM   #20
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Pistetään kokeiluun, kiitti
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:53 AM   #21
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Thank you very much! I'll give it a try right away.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:16 AM   #22
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Congratulations for this great plugin!

However, there is an issue: the center channel level is "static", it doesn't change in accord with the movement in virtual space. So, this is a 4.0 pan, not 5.0 as it could be and, in my opinion, as it should be.
If you could add this feature, this plugin will become really a must have for any serious surround film post production in Reaper and it could fill the gap in Reasurround plugin.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:43 AM   #23
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Congratulations for this great plugin!

However, there is an issue: the center channel level is "static", it doesn't change in accord with the movement in virtual space. So, this is a 4.0 pan, not 5.0 as it could be and, in my opinion, as it should be.
If you could add this feature, this plugin will become really a must have for any serious surround film post production in Reaper and it could fill the gap in Reasurround plugin.
I was just about to ask about that!

I first tied this out the other week in my quadraphonic PA/GTR/performance rig. So I didn't notice it was ONLY set up for quad right away.

There's a curious feature to send a mix of the L & R channels (track channels 1 & 2) to the C channel. And the output matrix routs to 6 track channels that appear to represent L, R, C, Lf, Ls, Rs. But the output is 4.0 and only 4.0.

So this plugin isn't an option for 5.1 work. Quadraphonic only!

The ReaSurround plugin has some GUI issues that confuse me too. For example, joysticking the input directly to one of the speakers. The position isn't obvious visually. I would have expected some x,y,z value on a control to be at 100% when directly joysticked to one speaker but this isn't the case. (The analogy to "panned 100% L" for example)

THIS surround plugin handles that better, but again this only lets you mix in 4.0 quad.

Can we get 5.1 support here?
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:49 AM   #24
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Thank you for the feedback.
It was my original intent not to include center channel into the positional panner. It has not much functional meaning for creating surround pan effects and it's usually dedicated for dialogue. And the same goes for LFE, which is dedicated for low frequency effects. That is why there are sliders to send signal into C and LFE when necessary. By that, the output is actually 5.1, not 4.0. That is, by my own point of view, the correct way to do it. I may look into this to add an option to include C, but currently I'm unable to give any specific time frame.
Thanks
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:21 AM   #25
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Thank you for the feedback.
It was my original intent not to include center channel into the positional panner. It has not much functional meaning for creating surround pan effects and it's usually dedicated for dialogue. And the same goes for LFE, which is dedicated for low frequency effects. That is why there are sliders to send signal into C and LFE when necessary. By that, the output is actually 5.1, not 4.0. That is, by my own point of view, the correct way to do it. I may look into this to add an option to include C, but currently I'm unable to give any specific time frame.
Thanks
The ability to run in 4.0 mode is absolutely wanted and would have been requested if it weren't there.

You describe a special case (movie surround track with centered dialog) of working in 5.1 where you want to have the surround component restricted to quad and treat the C channel as a separate system. Cool. I do that too.

But...
This plugin is very much restricted to 4.0 work with just a couple special case options for limited 5.1 application as it stands.

For music mixing in 5.1 this is not fully usable. You need the ability to treat the C channel as part of the surround matrix when desired.

I still like the 4.0 format. I'm currently using it for my guitar/PA/performance setup. And this quad surround panner with the autopan features is just what I was looking for for that! Back in the studio I'll still likely make the occasional 4.0 mix if the content lends itself towards it. But it's not 1970 anymore and we have 5.1 now!

This plugin would be perfect if it was expanded to full 5.1 operation (not just a specialized case). At any rate, thank you for the quad surround panner.

Last edited by serr; 10-12-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:05 AM   #26
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Ok then... There is couple of ways to do the center channel mixing:
A: L -> LC -> C -> RC -> R
B: L -> LCR -> R
I have implemented the method A. I may look into method B sometime.
Now go and get the new version.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Ok then... There is couple of ways to do the center channel mixing:
A: L -> LC -> C -> RC -> R
B: L -> LCR -> R
I have implemented the method A. I may look into method B sometime.
Now go and get the new version.
Wow that was quick!
You're the best!
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:13 PM   #28
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Hey Anomaly - brilliant panner - I'm really loving it (and your 5.1 compressor, too!)

Your panner's animated position reminds me of one the only plug-ins I miss from Digital Performer: it's surround delay.

http://cdn-data.motu.com/site/images...o-surround.jpg

The round animated display in the lower right shows the delays bouncing around from speaker to speaker, based on the settings. I really miss that interface - its one of the best for caoos delay effects in surround. Your panner animation/automation very much reminds me of it.

Fancy a go at a delay like this? (hint, hint!) :-)
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:02 PM   #29
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This looks very useful thanks!
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #30
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thanks pretty kewl tool, but one thing is screwy... likely a reaper thing but not sure.

If I make an automation env. for front back parameter, the points for back are up in the top half and for front in the bottom have of the env. hahaha very confuserating, ya know?

one might expect the points to match in their env. location to what is seen in the plugin GUI.

don't know if that something possible to fix or not.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:41 PM   #31
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cool, I built something like this the hard way in ReaSurround. Definitely will check it out.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:45 AM   #32
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This is great - I'd like to be able to assign each speaker to a different output on my soundcard. Could someone do a quick noob walkthough of how this can be set up?
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
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This is great - I'd like to be able to assign each speaker to a different output on my soundcard. Could someone do a quick noob walkthough of how this can be set up?
Click the i/o button on your master output bus. Assign the 6 outputs (assuming 5.1) to the output channels you aim to use on your audio interface. (Hint: You use 6 track channel tracks/buses/masters for 5.1 surround.)

Standard channel order is: L R C Lfe Ls Rs
Might as well use that and keep everything standard.


If you are doing 'home theater' with your system and using media player apps to listen to surround via core audio on your system, you can reassign the speaker assignments in Audio MIDI Setup (OSX audio control panel utility). But you should never need to if you use the default channel order. Interleaved 5.1 wav or flac files use this same default channel order.



Man...
I really did like this plugin better than the Reasurround panner but JS plugins are crashy in Reaper in general.

Last edited by serr; 07-08-2014 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkenhoe View Post
This is great - I'd like to be able to assign each speaker to a different output on my soundcard. Could someone do a quick noob walkthough of how this can be set up?
i made a rudimentary template for surround a while back. it's in the stash:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/16107/Reape...d_Template.RPP

you could examine the routing.

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Old 07-09-2014, 06:28 AM   #35
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Brilliant, thanks very much for this!
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