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Old 02-14-2018, 04:35 AM   #361
Jack Winter
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Originally Posted by David Else View Post
That is an interesting point. Some people just want to click a .exe and have it do everything for you.

I am about 1.5 years into using Linux, and I remember how confusing and seemingly pointless it was to type:

./program-to-run

when in a directory, rather than:

program-to-run

and also having to sometimes make an executable executable, it actually made me angry that someone was MAKING me do all this stupid work and wasting my time. I can appreciate this angle.

I think the solutions are very simple, it just means that Linux developers have to now provide for 'windows users'. They have to imagine how a Windows user would get confused by something as simple as the command line and make it easy for them. It will be technically very easy, but a 'paradigm shift'.
Dunno, I think sometimes it's much easier to just give a terminal command to do something, instead of trying to explain how to do it in some gui program, also kde vs gnome, etc...

Personally I think a windows user starting to use linux, should be prepared for a learning period and that it might take a few weeks/months to get up to speed...

On the other hand there is a lot distros could do, one of the first hurdles is the rt/memlock config issue that most new users are confronted with.. Is this really nescessary? Personally I'd like to see especially audio oriented distros ship with a realtime group, like that the user would only have to be told that he needs to add his user to the realtime group, or who knows, maybe audio distros should just default to giving realtime privs to newly created users.

In any case I think it's a lost cause trying to turn linux into windows.. There are so many different DEs, WM, apps, etc, that it's hard to put your finger on exactly what linux is, and IMO impossible to get them all to turn linux into something a windows user will understand without having to learn new things..
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:45 AM   #362
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I'd be wasting RAM if i ran my giant linuxsampler template through a GUI. I can save the RAM for great streaming performance instead. That's why Reaper's simple generic UI for plugins is a terrific idea. Takes all the pain out of trying to understand some of the more esoteric interfaces developers seem to think are required. Give me a decent algorithm over a magnolia background any day.

Bash scripting and coding should be taught in primary schools, imho.

Alex.

p.s. But VI or Emacs? Hmmm, not an easy choice to make...

Last edited by alextone; 02-14-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:53 AM   #363
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Dunno, I think sometimes it's much easier to just give a terminal command to do something, instead of trying to explain how to do it in some gui program, also kde vs gnome, etc...

Personally I think a windows user starting to use linux, should be prepared for a learning period and that it might take a few weeks/months to get up to speed...

On the other hand there is a lot distros could do, one of the first hurdles is the rt/memlock config issue that most new users are confronted with.. Is this really nescessary? Personally I'd like to see especially audio oriented distros ship with a realtime group, like that the user would only have to be told that he needs to add his user to the realtime group, or who knows, maybe audio distros should just default to giving realtime privs to newly created users.

In any case I think it's a lost cause trying to turn linux into windows.. There are so many different DEs, WM, apps, etc, that it's hard to put your finger on exactly what linux is, and IMO impossible to get them all to turn linux into something a windows user will understand without having to learn new things..
I certainly don't want to turn Linux into Windows! I was mainly thinking of an easier way for users to install plugins and setup audio for the DAW with Jack/ALSA or Pulse.

Flatpak is a great distribution solution, but I understand the argument against it. Having up-to-date repos would be the perfect solution, but someone else than the developer needs to be working on that full time.

I agree that the distros really could help pro audio users a lot, you have made me think it would be a great idea for me to get more involved with Fedora and talk to them about audio.

So many Linux audio woes are just pointless. If a team of 'ambassadors' for professional audio was formed and spent a while contributing to discussions and fixes for audio across the most used distros I think Linux audio could be simplified by a factor of 10x!

Redhat are working on https://pipewire.org/ .

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PipeWire is a project that aims to greatly improve handling of audio and video under Linux. It aims to support the usecases currently handled by both PulseAudio and Jack and at the same time provide same level of powerful handling of Video input and output. It also introduces a security model that makes interacting with audio and video devices from containerized applications easy, with supporting Flatpak applications being the primary goal. Alongside Wayland and Flatpak we expect PipeWire to provide a core building block for the future of Linux application development.
It is already in Fedora 27 in a limited form, and is under heavy development, it is happening!

https://github.com/PipeWire/pipewire...code-frequency

This could fix everything in the future, so maybe its just a case of we have passed the tipping point and things are just going to get better and better from now on
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:20 AM   #364
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I certainly don't want to turn Linux into Windows! I was mainly thinking of an easier way for users to install plugins and setup audio for the DAW with Jack/ALSA or Pulse.
I suppose in principle it's quite easy, but each distro has it's own package manager. On archlinux we've traditionally had few audio apps and plugins in the repos and people have had to build/install things from the so called aur. Mostly an automated process but still somewhat of a hassle. But we have a new packager that is aiming to bring most any audio software available into the repos. In principle it could be as easy as typing "pacman -S reaper distrho-vst", and you'd have reaper with some extra plugins installed. Then click on the reaper icon added to menuing system and bob is your uncle.

But package managing software tends to vary from distro to distro, in fact one of the things that distinguishes distros. Some are command line, some have a GUI, etc.

I think if we could get the main distros to provide a mechanism to easily configure rt/memlock privs and a way to automatically set the sound card interrupt priority, and then get repositories for most linux audio software we would be in a pretty good spot. In fact possibly better than windows, as there mostly is no need to trawl the internet to find a download for some binary we need, we just install it as any other software we normally use.

Of course once we step away from that, things get thornier... For instance to install u-he plugins, you have to download and extract multiple archives, then run the install.sh scripts, and finally realize that they aren't installed in /usr/lib/vst, but rather in ~/.vst instead... Though in the case of archlinux someone actually created build/install scripts for the aur, so you get them installed into (iirc) /opt and then symlinks created in /usr/lib/vst, so that would be quite similar to just installing packages from the manager and things just work.

Many other examples around where it's similar but the exact steps are different. On windows it's mostly surf until you find the download link, and run the graphical installer. Still many of us fiddle with the install in greater detail than this on windows too

For setting the soundcard interrupt automatically I have written a couple of scripts and udev rules, so that this happens automatically, but it got more complicated than I thought due to systemd/udev and I haven't finished it and pushed it. I am also working with the new archlinux packager, to get more audio related software into the main repos, to get the realtime kernel in there and to try to convince the distro of creating a realtime group. But of course seeing that this is a distro it sometimes ends in unforeseen problems and discussion with other people that don't agree, we'll see what the future brings on that point.

Getting active and doing something for your distro is of course the pragmatic solution, does more than just talking about what is wrong IIRC there used to be something called CCRMA for fedora, but don't know if that is very active anymore?

Also nowadays pulseaudio and jack do coexist and work quite well together, it's just a question of the distro setting it up properly. It's actually quite cool as for instance it's easy to pipe youtube audio into reaper via jack while playing guitar monitored through a software amp at low latency, something that isn't all that easy in the windows world. So in a certain sense we are already ahead of windows users...

But still in the end analysis I think anyone with no experience that decides to run linux will have to realize that there is a learning curve, and it might even mean having to learn how to use a terminal to input commands...
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:26 AM   #365
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Actually considering for instance wave plugins and the possibility of having to reinstall windows to get everything working again (or to get really dirty in removing things and editing the registry), I'd say that just running the package manager to remove the newly installed plugins and to come back to starting point is vastly preferable to what you might be facing on windows... But in oh so many ways, apples and pears
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:30 AM   #366
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Wise words Jack!

Quote:
For setting the soundcard interrupt automatically I have written a couple of scripts
could you post a link or copy of them here? would be cool to take a look and try them on fedora.

Quote:
It's actually quite cool as for instance it's easy to pipe youtube audio into reaper via jack
exactly what i want to do! no idea how using the Fedora Chrome or Firefox, I assume a specially compiled version is needed?
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:53 PM   #367
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The commandline is a huge asset...
I think you guys might have misunderstood the point of what I was writing. I wasn't bashing (pun intended) Linux or the command line - I'm a long time Linux user myself. I set up and used Ardour on Debian over 10 years ago and I installed the first Linux version of Reaper (it didn't do anything at the time but I got it installed ). What I'm saying is that Linux, both as an OS and as a DAW, can't be completely set up and configured without using the command line, and that is a major stumbling block for the overwhelming majority of Windows/Mac users as well as the majority of musicians. Most computer users, and most musicians (present company excepted), are not propeller heads and have a hard enough time using an intuitive GUI - just look at the posts here from folks having a hard time setting up MIDI or audio interface set up. There's nothing wrong or inferior with being "computer illiterate" but those types want their computers to just work and most have no interest in opening a terminal... in fact, the terminal is a turn off to those kind of computer users/musicians. And because of that, until the terminal is an option and not a requirement, Linux will never become widely used, as an OS or as a DAW. And this has nothing to do with the ways that the terminal saves time or is easier (i.e. I always do all of my updates in the terminal - usually faster than opening the software manager). But using the command line is intimidating to non-technical people so they will avoid it - and Linux. That's my point.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:38 PM   #368
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could you post a link or copy of them here? would be cool to take a look and try them on fedora.
I'll try to get it done this week.

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exactly what i want to do! no idea how using the Fedora Chrome or Firefox, I assume a specially compiled version is needed?
Don't know. On archlinux chromium uses pulseaudio by default. If you run jack2 then pulse will yield to jack and automatically get a jack sink (you might need to run pavucontrol or similar to redirect the audio stream).

With jack1 you have to run "pacmd load-module module-jack-sink channels=2" after jack is up and running.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:18 PM   #369
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I don't think you tried to bash at all and I understand what you are saying... The OS wars seems to have died down on the forums after cockos made a linux version, before when it was discussed we used to have long threads on the drawbacks of linux, the same about os/x before a port was published.

Though I think that anyone that wants to embark on a linux journey for audio (or anything else on linux for that matter) ought to be aware that things might be different, and some learning is required. Otherwise just don't try it at all..!

IMO linux is a kick ass OS, and marvellous for the tinkerer. You can customize it in so many ways that they appear to be completely different OSs. In a certain manner this is probably why there are so many distros that try to make things easier for the user. But you can install a basic system and then handpick the components you want to use, no need to be spoonfed either

Though I do think that there is no intrinsic need in using the command line It ought to be perfectly possible to install an ubuntu, add the kxstudio repos and install a load of software for working with audio without touching the command line at all. Probably possible to extract reaper from a gui too, but yes reaper could have a gui installer, or be installed from the package manager. Though I know that cockos doesn't want it to be packaged by distros yet, and prefers it to be downloaded from lol (so probably someday).

But one ought also to be aware that there might be disadvantages, like lacking hardware support, or having to run your usb soundcard in class compatible mode with no dsp or mixer control, availability of plugins (or tinkering to get them working), or god forbid, even having to open up a terminal and paste something from you google result.

If I had to work professionally with audio, I'd probably be using windows or os/x, and maybe even not reaper depending on the boss or client. As a hobbyist, bob is my uncle and reaper for linux is the dogs bollocks
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:26 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by David Else View Post
Redhat are working on https://pipewire.org/ .

It is already in Fedora 27 in a limited form, and is under heavy development, it is happening!

https://github.com/PipeWire/pipewire...code-frequency

This could fix everything in the future, so maybe its just a case of we have passed the tipping point and things are just going to get better and better from now on
Hopefully someone will be integrating BlackMagic's Centos based video editor,
getting a solid integrated audio/video sytem would be a big help
for people wanting a linux based A/V studio.
Cheers
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:30 PM   #371
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extremely early days for davinci resolve on linux. major things not up yet. also seems to only work reliably on redhat or centos. i tried to install it on ubuntu studio per instructions from users on the bmd forums but no luck at all. wanted to try ubuntu studio as that's what i have tried reaper on with very good results. resolve, not so much. next will try to get reaper running on centos, go the other way and see if that works.

BabaG
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:13 AM   #372
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extremely early days for davinci resolve on linux. major things not up yet. also seems to only work reliably on redhat or centos. i tried to install it on ubuntu studio per instructions from users on the bmd forums but no luck at all. wanted to try ubuntu studio as that's what i have tried reaper on with very good results. resolve, not so much. next will try to get reaper running on centos, go the other way and see if that works.

BabaG
I had Reaper running on the latest Centos with no problems. Here are the parts of my immediate post-install script that would probably be relevant, hope it saves you some time! I spent weeks of research, and went back to Fedora simply because I could not get the fonts to look as good for lack of a certain package:

Quote:
#!/bin/bash

# CentOS 7.4 Install Script 20-12-17 FINAL

# update everything
sudo yum update -y

# install the repositories
sudo yum install epel-release -y
sudo yum install --nogpgcheck https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free...e-7.noarch.rpm https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonf...e-7.noarch.rpm -y

# install packages from the enabled repositories
sudo yum install chromium chromium-libs-media-freeworld ntfs-3g ffmpeg fuse-exfat unrar jack-audio-connection-kit -y

# change pulse audio settings for max quality on scarlett 6i6
sudo sed -i "s/; default-sample-format = s16le/default-sample-format = s32le/g" /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
sudo sed -i "s/; resample-method = speex-float-1/resample-method = speex-float-10/g" /etc/pulse/daemon.conf

# add our current user to the jackuser group
sudo usermod -a -G jackuser "$USERNAME"

# config jack
printf "# Default limits for users of jack-audio-connection-kit\n\n@jackuser - rtprio 98\n@jackuser - memlock unlimited\n\n@pulse-rt - rtprio 20\n@pulse-rt - nice -20" | sudo tee /etc/security/limits.d/95-jack.conf
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:44 PM   #373
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thanks much for this, david. will try to give it a go this weekend. looks to be quite helpful.

my centos install was done via the bmd davinci resolve iso. i've been disappointed that they don't make something ubuntu-friendly as the ubuntu studio distro seems to make a lot of setup much easier. bmd is pretty deeply committed to their hardware oriented structures, though, so i guess it's not surprising that they set something up that's, at its most basic, a dedicated station.

thaks again,
BabaG
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:08 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by babag View Post
extremely early days for davinci resolve on linux. major things not up yet. also seems to only work reliably on redhat or centos. i tried to install it on ubuntu studio per instructions from users on the bmd forums but no luck at all. wanted to try ubuntu studio as that's what i have tried reaper on with very good results. resolve, not so much. next will try to get reaper running on centos, go the other way and see if that works.

BabaG
Would be great if Fernando, king of CCRMA, could get resolv running
in Fedora. I had Fedora installed for awhile,
when Bitwig was still young, and it wasn't hard to keep
the audio system stable and productive. Centos may even
be better. Bitwig is still Ubuntu only at a support level,
although it works elsewhere. Sort of reverse
the resolv situation. Commercial dev hours are still in short supply,
and/or major distro packaging needs more base-system uniformity.

Getting distro maintainers agreeing on even a C library selection
is like herding (hungry) cats in an aviary.

Good luck in your conquest!
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:16 PM   #375
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Resolve works fine for me on Kubuntu... just had to symlink a couple of libraries... bigger issue was the lack of audio support in linux (maybe v14 works better?) and no h.264 decode/encode. Also had to kill (unneeded) DavinciPanelDaemon after startup to prevent CPU runaway, but in v14 beta that wasn't needed. So: still have to use it on windows for now (and it can't encode 4K H.264 on Windows 8.1 due to a bug in windows that will never be fixed. :-( )

Here are my personal notes for installing it, in case useful:

Code:
sudo apt-get install libssl-dev
sudo ln -s /usr/lib /usr/lib64
# these two I moved existing links to .old versions:
sudo ln -s /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgstreamer-1.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgstreamer-0.10.so.0
sudo ln -s /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgstbase-1.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libgstbase-0.10.so.0
# these two as they were:
sudo ln -s /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so.1.0.0 /usr/lib/libssl.so.10
sudo ln -s /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.1.0.0 /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.10

Download from https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve
run .sh script as root to install

run as regular user from /opt/resolve/bin/resolve
in prefs setting GPU processing mode to explicit CUDA seemed to help
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:52 AM   #376
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For people getting errors compiling for GDK2:

Changing "gdk_x11_window_get_xid" in swell-generic-gdk.cpp to "GDK_WINDOW_XID" solves the error here.
Oops yeah thanks fixing...

but really, still GDK2?!
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:35 AM   #377
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Because some dev put it in there? B)
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:43 PM   #378
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Oops still GDK2?!
I might be a oddball, but I still don't have any gtk3 applications,
and fltk is king where I sit
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:48 PM   #379
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Oops
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:11 AM   #380
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Question, how do I link usb MIDI keyboard to REAPER in linux (manjaro)?
I can see my keyboard with aconnect, and confirm it's receiving signals, however I'm not seeing it as available MIDI input in REAPER. Do I need to link these two somehow, and how do I do that?
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Old 02-21-2018, 03:55 AM   #381
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Question, how do I link usb MIDI keyboard to REAPER in linux (manjaro)?
I can see my keyboard with aconnect, and confirm it's receiving signals, however I'm not seeing it as available MIDI input in REAPER. Do I need to link these two somehow, and how do I do that?
There are 2 type of midi on Linux, ALSA and JACK midi. Reaper only supports the latter while actual midi devices support the former. This means that you need to bridge them for it to work.

You need to run reaper with the jack backend. If you use JACK2 you have to run the additional a2jmidid, and iirc with JACK1 you have to use the ALSA sequencer, so use the -Xseq parameter. Finally you have to connect the alsa and jack midiports, something which can be done in the qjackctl GUI or with other tools.

Hopefully reaper will add support for ALSA midi someday too!

Note that I'm not a midi user, so the above might be inaccurate in some aspects.
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:41 AM   #382
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Question, how do I link usb MIDI keyboard to REAPER in linux (manjaro)?
I can see my keyboard with aconnect, and confirm it's receiving signals, however I'm not seeing it as available MIDI input in REAPER. Do I need to link these two somehow, and how do I do that?
For me it only took these steps to get MIDI running on my Scarlett 6i6 USB interface on Fedora 27:

# install jack
sudo dnf install jack-audio-connection-kit

# add current user to jack user group
sudo usermod -a -G jackuser "$USERNAME"

# Config Jack assuming jack has created the 95-jack.conf file we are going to overwrite
printf "# Default limits for users of jack-audio-connection-kit\n\n@jackuser - rtprio 98\n@jackuser - memlock unlimited\n\n@pulse-rt - rtprio 20\n@pulse-rt - nice -20" | sudo tee /etc/security/limits.d/95-jack.conf

In Reaper audio device settings select audio system 'jack', I tick the 'auto-start jackd' (and the other two boxes) and type the following into the box:

/usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:USB -r96000 -p128 -n3 -Xseq

(-r96000 the sample rate, -p128 the buffer size... put what you want)

go to audio > midi devices > select the device and enable the input.. sorted!
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:05 AM   #383
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tried to search but didn't find it. is sws available in linux?

thanks,
BabaG
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:08 AM   #384
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Have a look at: https://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/REAPER_for_Linux

There is both SWS and ReaPack.
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:01 PM   #385
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wow. this is great news. thanks, jack. mostly martian to me from the first glance i gave it but it did look like i might make some sense of it if i spent some time. i don't compile much.

thanks again,
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:11 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babag View Post
wow. this is great news. thanks, jack. mostly martian to me from the first glance i gave it but it did look like i might make some sense of it if i spent some time. i don't compile much.
There is a prebuilt sws on lol/dev. Try that one if you don't want to build it yourself. Just download the archive, extract the .so and copy it to ~/.config/REAPER/UserPlugins/ or wherever you keep the user data.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:16 AM   #387
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thanks!
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:04 PM   #388
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Does the Joystick midi device work?
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Old 03-02-2018, 04:44 PM   #389
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Before a linux version came out, there was midi joystick support from a reaper user (Fergo?)which worked, so one could midi-learn the various buttons and xy gamepad controls, so if that was
used for what exists, it should still work, and likely better.
Very nice for drive, gain, and depth etc
of of ampsims and modulations etc
I checked in wine/reaper, and a Logitech joypad with
eleven button and dual xy sticks is recognized,
I'll try and get it working...
Cheers

Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 03-02-2018 at 05:19 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:06 PM   #390
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edit: got the basics working, added msvbvm60.dll (1.4 meg)
to the wine over-rides list, opened the Reaper
midi prefs for joystick,
selected the Logitech joystick (js) (there was one other
Logitech option listed)
and in the script area, chose'rockband guitar'
then opened Hive, activated it's midi-learn via
the gear icon in the upper right of the gui
(when it opens, click the L
right-clicked filter resonance on Hive gui,
and moved the left joystick, and it's learned.
The script itself doesn't look too daunting,
but I was born daunted...







I found a Fergo .exe, but it failed, needing
a .dll from visual basic, mentioned here:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...c-68b599b31bf5

Cheers

Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 03-02-2018 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:56 PM   #391
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It also mapped 10 chromatic notes to the buttons,
so a chord or two is possible, and it sounds like it's picking up on what each preset is set up for,

you can play the midi keyboard concurrently,
hold the sustain pedal down and then play the joystick,
as lead instrument, put 5 down and seven up
on learned pitchbend etc etc

...the stick can also can differentiate between horizontal and 45degree movements, and vertical of course. A good preset
writer could make great use of modwheel, bends, portamento etc
and the logitech can be quite useful and fun! Even the thumpad
is in play...Just in time 4duhweekend!

Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 03-02-2018 at 07:04 PM. Reason: mow
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:59 PM   #392
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Good to know about Fergo.


I did find joy2midi https://github.com/jessecrossen/hautmidi for Linux which works and the midi device can be connected to Linux Reaper midi in via jack.

I'm trying out a few Guitar Hero drumkits for fun, I'm testing the PS2/3 and Xbox versions.

I found that starting xboxdrv and then using joy2midi worked for Linux Reaper.

xboxdrv makes the xbox wireless receiver appear as /dev/input/js0 (joystick) and then that can be used by joy2midi and the midi then connected to Reaper.

The midi from the Guitar Hero drumkits sounds pretty good with MT PowerDrumkit via LinVst with the tests I've done and the native DrumGizmo kits would also work of course and things like EZDrummer via LinVst etc.

The midi mapping of the drumpads (joystick buttons) can be remapped via a joy2midi map file which maps the joystick buttons/drumpads to midi notes.

From memory, I think the terminal output from xboxdrv lists what button/drumpad is being hit and that could be used for the joy2midi map file which by default has a rockband/harmonix drumkit mapping.

jstest probably shows which button/drumpad was hit info.

Midi codes are something like

RockBand Harmonix Settings:
RED – MIDI Note 38 Snare
YELLOW – MIDI Note 46 High Tom/High Hat
BLUE – MIDI Note 48 Low Tom/Ride
GREEN – MIDI Note 45 Floor Tom/Crash
ORANGE – MIDI Note 36 Kick

Guitar Hero World Tour Settings:
RED – MIDI Note 38 Snare
YELLOW – MIDI Note 46 Open HiHat
BLUE – MIDI Note 48 Hi Tom
GREEN – MIDI Note 45 Mid Tom
ORANGE – MIDI Note 49 Cymbal Crash
PURPLE – MIDI Note 36 Kick

There is also rbdrum2midi https://github.com/rbdrum2midi/rbdrum2midi I got the Guitar Hero PS2/3 drumkit to work but the xbox and wii probably won't work.

Reaper on the PC and Mac has it's own joystick to midi feature but not on Linux as far as I can make out.

Last edited by osxmidi; 03-02-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 03-03-2018, 07:54 PM   #393
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I left the joystick plugged in overnight, and when I
next started up, (Mint 18) I was greeted by a hideous list
of disk and filesystem errors, which condition survived reboots,
until I noticed the joystick was plugged in (a usb 3 port)
After removing it, everything booted normally.
I don't EVEN want to know how weird that is...

...and thanks for the extra info, lots of options.
Using the Reaper joystick support in wine, I used
Drumcore 3, adding extra sounds to the canned beats.
Nice to have the options!
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:49 PM   #394
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Default Reaper for Linux - public release?

Hi everyone,

Will there be a public release of Reaper for Linux, or only Release Candidates on landoleet?
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:56 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexj View Post
Hi everyone,

Will there be a public release of Reaper for Linux, or only Release Candidates on landoleet?
I don't think anything has been promised, but I'd be pretty surprised if they put that much work in to it and never got to an official status eventually.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:49 PM   #396
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Obviously ! And I am very happy watching this process.

But to me this only makes sense if the task of using Windows plugins (see the other thread in this forum) is solved without the customer needing to do anything dedicatedly about it.

That "VST-Bridge" would need to come with built-in "Wine" aware technology, so that the user only needs to have his/her distribution install the appropriate Wine package, but not need to configure it in any complex way.

On top of that, running programs like Native Instrument's "Access" needs to be really simple for them. Unfortunately this might be a moving target and need ongoing support by the devs .

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 03-08-2018 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:07 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
But to me this only makes sense if the task of using Windows plugins (see the other thread in this forum) is solved without the customer needing to do anything dedicatedly about it.
I'm 1000% in favor of that happening, but I will respectfully disagree that it only makes sense in that case... even if Linux forever lives in the shadows of Windows and OSX, and even if there are never as many plugins of as high a quality, it's still very awesome to have a(nother) serious DAW on the OS. (And obviously will only help the chicken/egg problem in the long term.)

Magic interoperation with windows VSTs is a big ask... all my fingers and toes are crossed that they will pull that rabbit out of a hat some day, but I'm meditating on being more than satisfied when they get a polished-up official release together. Just being able to track remotely on a linux laptop is already a fantastic ability (for me).
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:47 AM   #398
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I think devs should be more focused on lv2 support than Windows VST
integration . If you can't work without your Win's plugins,
the best choice is to stay with Windows OS.
And afaik, the support for Native Instruments Service Center is aweful,
Wine needs to be configured one way, and the other applications
needs another one. And big sessions with VST bridge can be a pain
in some case.
So, it could be happy if Linux users ask massively
Native Instruments to port their applications to LinuxVST,
like here :
https://www.native-instruments.com/f...upport.267720/
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Old 03-08-2018, 02:00 AM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub26nico View Post
I think devs should be more focused on lv2 support than Windows VST
integration . If you can't work without your Win's plugins,
the best choice is to stay with Windows OS.
And afaik, the support for Native Instruments Service Center is aweful,
Wine needs to be configured one way, and the other applications
needs another one. And big sessions with VST bridge can be a pain
in some case.
So, it could be happy if Linux users ask massively
Native Instruments to port their applications to LinuxVST,
like here :
https://www.native-instruments.com/f...upport.267720/
Native Access (the current NI reg tool) used a windows function to see if it was being run from a virtual drive and that function revealed a bug in Wine that is now hopefully fixed.

The trouble with LV2 IMO is that Linux vst's can do a similar job and there are limited plugin devs working on Linux and therefore LV2 and Linux vst's.

It is possible to port windows vst's that were made with JUCE (Tracktion) to Linux vst's but that doesn't happen much because Linux is basically a small commercial market for audio and so why would NI port Kontakt etc to Linux when there is hardly any commercial gain unless they are big fans of Linux, u-he/abique have ported some of their stuff over and that is great IMO but the majority of other companies are not going to.

One of the things preventing possible Windows vst ports to Linux in the 90s etc was that the vst sdk kit had no support to port the windows vst gui's to Linux but the vst sdk did have gui porting support for Mac OSX and so a company could develop a vst for windows and then port it to OSX with not that much effort whereas porting the vst to Linux was pretty hard and time consuming and requiring a whole vst gui being rewritten just for Linux (not exactly a trivial thing to do) and that combined with limited commercial returns obviously resulted in hardly any vst ports to Linux.

There was also the vst sdk licensing thing and that puts some Linux people in a spin as well.

Wine will never be windows and Wine still has some bugs and unimplemented things but it gets updated and things get fixed.

A windows vst bridge using wine can only be as good as Wine is and Wine improves over time and right now there is a large effort to get D3D things happening with Wine 3 for instance.

Even with the possible Wine shortcomings, it's possible to run hundreds (probably thousands) of Windows vst's in a Linux native daw if someone wants, not all of them work but many do.

Daws and plugins are separate things and should not be lumped together IMO.

Native apps are most likely the best at fitting the OS.

A native Linux daw doesn't need to go through all of Wines plumbing (threads, memory management, audio etc etc) and can use the native OS functions and that results in around a 20% increase in speed and response from what I've seen.

If a singer (that can sing) is being recorded then mic into a Linux daw using Linux is no different to a mic into a Windows daw using Windows, the results will be the same.

If someone wants to smother the recorded vocals with autotune and compression and who knows what then they whip out the plugins and that is where Windows has all the plugins and Linux has some and that can be bolstered by a windows/wine vst bridge to a fairly good extent but not everything is perfect and probably never will be.

The Linux daws can also use Linux native plugins but the commercial ports Bitwig etc are already coded for vst support and au support for Windows/Mac and so adding Linux vst support for their Linux ports could be done without writing a lot of code and lv2 support might happen and it might not.

The lv2 devs could make Linux vst version of their plugins, I know that guitarix can be made as a Linux vst plugin but I don't know about the gui and that might need to be rewritten which is not a trivial thing to do as I said above.

Another thing is a lv2 to vst wrapper.

On the mac, plugins often have vst and au versions but plugins on Linux don't have vst and lv2 versions in a lot of cases and that could be due to some Linux vst license objection and/or to it being a lot harder to make vst and lv2 versions of the same plugin for Linux as compared to making vst and au versions of the same plugin for the Mac.

Last edited by osxmidi; 03-08-2018 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:19 AM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub26nico View Post
I think devs should be more focused on lv2 support than Windows VST integration
OK. But who is going to talk the Plugin provides to do lv2 versions ?

OTOH, (AFAIK) there is a VST definition for Linux by Steinberg, so it looks like a lot easier for them to do Linux VSTs.

Most prominent example is Kontakt, This is not just some plugin, but there are thousands of 3rd (or 4rth ) party libraries (free and commercial) based on Kontakt. There is close to no chance to do a Kontakt workalike (e.g. LV2-) plugin that can load these libraries for anybody but NI themselves.

-Michael
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