Notation pre-release thread (part 2)

[ReaDim]

Originally Posted by ijijn

, but having these extra options for 16-ish voices surely doesn't hurt anyone(?) and would make my life and the life of my ... devotees about 10x easier, as a conservative estimate. [/SIZE]

That is great! I would be happy for you! Thanks for your post!

[planetnine]

Originally Posted by memyselfandus

Can we get a bouncing ball?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ioBYL4svElw

We need that Karaoke-style on the lyrics...




>

[clepsydrae]

Originally Posted by memyselfandus

Can we get a bouncing ball?

A bouncing scythe may be more in order.

[memyselfandus]

Anyone else feel a bit empty without rhythm slashes?







Hide Clef Please


Hide selected notes is Awesome. Can we get a hide bar numbers and tempo? And any other text?

Hide staff would be incredible. Hide staff but still show notes. Very useful for rhythm stuff.

Also. Color note heads and show note name/text on note heads! Please

[memyselfandus]

Concerning Items. Start notation view on bar one for items anywhere in the project? Right now it gives previous non existent bars.

I also vote for a virtual guitar fretboard on the bottom option. We have a virtual keyboard. This would be great for guitar players to punch in notes using the fretboard.

Like this
http://www.sibeliusblog.com/wp-conte...reenshot_E.png

And if you end up adding tablature.. Maybe do it the opposite of the other notation programs and require inputting of notes directly into the tab portion and then the notation part reflects. As opposed to the opposite.. Sibelius is wonky. You have to input notes in notation first and then copy paste or whatever into tab. Which is really wonky.

Having tab implemented this way would draw guitar players away from other bloated programs and into reapers arms.

[Dstruct]

Originally Posted by memyselfandus

Can we get a hide bar numbers and tempo? And any other text?

Tempo yes ("Show project tempo changes" clef context menu).

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by Dstruct

Tempo yes ("Show project tempo changes" clef context menu).

Oh nice thanks

[memyselfandus]

Here is something showing the basics of microtonal notes. May help someone. Basically we just need some option to allow more than one symbol per note name or something.

https://i.imgur.com/wJLqDZV.jpg


Hoping for the ability for custom user made layouts at some point. Users could do this if the option is there before release. Even if it's not utilized yet! Please consider some sort of custom user stuff Schwa. Even if we don't know it's there. For future proofing.

A way to load things that can alter fonts and notation and run sws type actions or scripts. User made libraries for composition tasks and so on as well.

[ijijn]

I think the karaoke functionality could probably be released as a DLC in Q3...

Regarding other details, here are some propositions:

"Hidden staff" (but with actual notes and things on it): actually, a 0-line staff. Like a 1-line staff, but 1 fewer. It goes to 0.

Staves could be truly hidden if there is no content on them. This is especially useful if we get more voices per channel, to prevent a ridiculous proliferation of staffness. Here are some possible rules:

• If a linked voice group, for example, doesn't have any information on it, then hide it.
• If you're not using a voice (within a certain channel), it is considered hidden and contributes to the group's overall "hiddenness", but appears as soon as you set a note to that voice.
• If you're not using a channel at all, it is basically hidden: either it could be "showable" in a filter so you can then add to it, or if you change an existing note to a previously empty channel then it populates that channel for further use (which is probably my preferred method, because the notation grows with you, never displays more than it needs to, and requires less interaction).
• If you're not using a track/item at all but have it loaded in the editor, it should be (almost) hidden too: there could probably always be at least one (dummy) staff visible per track, so you can actually add stuff to it, at which point it becomes a real staff acting however it needs to.

Then there is minimal clutter and you can represent your music in the way that makes the most sense to you. Parts as voices within a channel? They have linked voice groups. Parts per channel? That works too. Parts per track. Ditto. And it works with those clef techniques we hashed out.

Multiple articulations (or general decorations) per note would also be great, for many reasons. A simple toggle for each rather than a choice of one. The data format could remain the same, just list multiples together.

[juliansader]

Bug report:
1) In the piano roll, change the length of two non-overlapping, legato notes simultaneously by positioning the cursor between them and slightly dragging to either side (I am not sure what the proper name for this Action is),
2) change to notation view and back to piano roll.
=> The note lengths have snapped back to their previous lengths.

[memyselfandus]

Excellent. and dynamics markings affecting actual note velocities! add accent to bass drum on beats 2 and 4 and the velocity is louder on those beats on playback. then some functions to accent every specified beat for the duration of the track or selected bars!

Accent beats 2 and 4 on selected tracks. would be Amazing.

with boxes for each beat and off beat determined by grid. so you could accent every 1 + beat or the up beat on say 3.. so many uses for having this type of workflow.

8th note grid

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

accent every + on 4

and something like randomize accents on random beats and so on

and if we can load user created plugins for this later on.. we could create common and not so common characteristics from specif genres that deal with accents. Jazz.. accent the 2 and 4 and so on. that sort of stuff..

Stuff like this concerning sustain pedals for piano would be Great. add sustain markings for down beats for selected bars. and anything played on the down beat gets sustained.


Sostenuto sustain selected notes while other notes do not sustain

[schwa]

Originally Posted by juliansader

The note lengths have snapped back to their previous lengths.

Fixing, thanks.

[swiiscompos]

Is there a way to change the vertical position of the rests? Is very important when useful dealing with multiple voices!

I never thought I would ask this kind of things one day. Today I tested the notation for the first time in a long time (busy with school) and I was amazed by how good it is!

Do we have a good step editor? I also miss it in the piano roll. An input mode in which we can use keystrokes (probably numbers) to set the length of the note and then a MIDI input to set the pitch would be amazing and actually much necessary! Mouse input is very slow (even if note input with the mouse in Reaper is probably the best I have ever seen!)

[ReaDim]

Can we see a frozen track in notation editor please?!

[hamish]

I'd just like to say that in the recent pres, the 'hide notes' attribute in Notation view is a much better solution to handling keyswitches.

Haven't thoroughly tested, but so far so good.

[hamish]

Also: Today I set up my 12 yr old daughters new windows 10 laptop with an old Edirol UA25 interface, Caustic and REAPER (We already put MuseScore on, and at school they got her to put on audacity).

We connected up her 76 key Casio and rocked out.

I bragged that 'soon you won't even need MuseScore to do notation, because REAPER is getting a notation editor and IT'S GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING!!'.

I really beleive that. I can see the forums being overrun with Sonar and Logic refugees. Soup kitchen being set up in the lounge...

[schwa]

Originally Posted by swiiscompos

Do we have a good step editor? I also miss it in the piano roll.

Search the actions list, MIDI editor section, for "step input."

[mpb2016]

Originally Posted by hamish

I bragged that 'soon you won't even need MuseScore to do notation, because REAPER is getting a notation editor and IT'S GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING!!'.

For me it already did, and Im sure it will for a whole lot of other people as well, Im just waiting for the word to spread

Originally Posted by schwa

Search the actions list, MIDI editor section, for "step input."

I use it all the time transcribing scores.

[swiiscompos]

Originally Posted by schwa

Search the actions list, MIDI editor section, for "step input."

Thank you, but it would be so much more useful if we could have a different set of shortcuts just for the step input mode so that we can map all the note length to the keyboard (and there should probably be a default mapping). For example "4" could be 1/4 notes and the smaller number would represent longer values and bigger numbers shorter values. Then "." would set the note value to dotted and maybe "/" would create a triplet. I know it's already possible to do it but now we have to override many other shortcuts to fit these.

[kerryg]

Originally Posted by hamish

...I bragged that 'soon you won't even need MuseScore to do notation, because REAPER is getting a notation editor and IT'S GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING!!'.

I really beleive that. I can see the forums being overrun with Sonar and Logic refugees...

Exactly. I'll be switching all my class assignments (abt 100 students/year) from Musescore to Reaper as soon as the notation editor is in stable release. Won't take too many teachers doing that to make this a game changer in terms of exposing a new pool of potential licensees.

[G-Sun]

I bet drum-map has been mentioned.

Yet, has anyone mentioned key-switches,
and possible best integration in score?

It could be done if defining key-map region,
with pitch articulation/patch names.
These could be displayed as text on top of staff.
And double-clicking it could switch to piano-roll,
zoomed and scrolled to key-switches.

Else they are hidden from score.

[mpb2016]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I bet drum-map has been mentioned.

Yet, has anyone mentioned key-switches,
and possible best integration in score?

It could be done if defining key-map region,
with pitch articulation/patch names.
These could be displayed as text on top of staff.
And double-clicking it could switch to piano-roll,
zoomed and scrolled to key-switches.

Else they are hidden from score.

Yes, Ive been nagging about the ability in the future for some sort of integration between the articulations and keyswitches something like expressionmaps or like this:

http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulatereaper/

[reddiesel41264]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I bet drum-map has been mentioned.

Yet, has anyone mentioned key-switches,
and possible best integration in score?

It could be done if defining key-map region,
with pitch articulation/patch names.
These could be displayed as text on top of staff.
And double-clicking it could switch to piano-roll,
zoomed and scrolled to key-switches.

Else they are hidden from score.

This is already being worked on but won't be part of the initial release.

[mpb2016]

Originally Posted by reddiesel41264

This is already being worked on but won't be part of the initial release.

I suspected that, so I quit my nagging and tried to help with the debugging of the notation first.

[juliansader]

Custom tuples work great - but only if the notes are precisely quantized.

Almost any small deviation (for example, if the notes slightly overlap, as is common when sequencing legato phrases) trips up the tuple display. Note lengths are displayed weirdly, beaming is interrupted, and there are extraneous rests at exactly the same positions as the notes themselves.

If the notes have slight deviations before creation of the tuple, and "Modify note positions" is selected, the notes are also stretched incorrectly.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by mpb2016

Yes, Ive been nagging about the ability in the future for some sort of integration between the articulations and keyswitches something like expressionmaps or like this:

http://www.syntheticorchestra.com/articulatereaper/

Originally Posted by reddiesel41264

This is already being worked on but won't be part of the initial release.

Cool

[Skrzypiec]

I'm writing for the violin but everytime I go below C4 the note jumps into bass clef:



Is there any possibility to leave the two-staff view and force a single treble staff for treble-exclusive tracks like this? Thanks

Another question is how do I really manage tuplets? "Insert tuplet" doesn't work for me, and if the tuplet notes belong to bass staff, the tuplet marking stays in the treble one.

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by Skrzypiec

I'm writing for the violin but everytime I go below C4 the note jumps into bass clef:



Is there any possibility to leave the two-staff view and force a single treble staff for treble-exclusive tracks like this? Thanks

If you right-click on the clef, there is a context menu from which you can select any clef.

(You can also select any notes, right-click, and use the context menu to move them onto either the treble or bass staff.)

[hamish]

Originally Posted by juliansader

Custom tuples work great - but only if the notes are precisely quantized.

Almost any small deviation (for example, if the notes slightly overlap, as is common when sequencing legato phrases) trips up the tuple display.

Seeing the same thing here, I really hope it could be improved.

When you work with basic 16th note 4/4 patterns things are fantastic, you can have quite humanised timing but still have the clean quantised display.

Also I should say that with swing 8ths I'm very happy with how clean the notation can be.

[memyselfandus]

Regarding the possibility to load custom fonts and symbols for standard and non standard notation.

please take a look at this for ideas



something like this would pretty much seal the deal on being able to implement future feature requests that come up.



something like this with with a SWS type function to run all sorts of notation related functions




acquire from font window for ideas for custom font loading

[memyselfandus]

Add ability to create/load custom tuning for track and pretty much done with microtonal tuning the GUI isn't as important as the function. please look at this









ALSO Font loading for Text











PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have a look at it being possible to add these functions. Reaper is already microtonal friendly..

- Extremely flexible midi and audio routing. No built-in softsynths except ReaSynth. No problems with sysexes or multiple midi channels.

The QWERTY keyboard can be used as a midi keyboard, like most DAWs. But in Reaper, you can assign any midi note to any key. So you aren't stuck with 7 white & 5 black keys. Here's how: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/8772/reaper-vkbmap.txt

The appearance of the piano roll on the midi editor can be completely customized, e.g. more than 12 notes per octave.

Other daws are behind Reaper with this stuff

[kerryg]

Originally Posted by memyselfandus

Add ability to create/load custom tuning for track and pretty much done with microtonal tuning the GUI isn't as important as the function. please look at...



ALSO Font loading for Text



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have a look at it being possible to add these functions. Reaper is already microtonal friendly..

- Extremely flexible midi and audio routing. No built-in softsynths except ReaSynth. No problems with sysexes or multiple midi channels.

The QWERTY keyboard can be used as a midi keyboard, like most DAWs. But in Reaper, you can assign any midi note to any key. So you aren't stuck with 7 white & 5 black keys. Here's how: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/8772/reaper-vkbmap.txt

The appearance of the piano roll on the midi editor can be completely customized, e.g. more than 12 notes per octave.

Other daws are behind Reaper with this stuff

If we're going this far deep into microtonal abilities, why not support Scala file import? http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by kerryg

If we're going this far deep into microtonal abilities, why not support Scala file import? http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

That would be one way. Load tun file = custom tuning

This would audibly affect the playback using pitch bends or something. The ability to load custom fonts would take care of the visual aspects. I think.


Not sure what route would be taken but that would work. Might have to convert tun or scala files into text format or something that "may" be more native to reaper?

Ability to load custom user fonts

Some sort of scala or tun file or text file import fir playback of non standard tunings

The ability to load custom user stuff into the notation view would future proof this sort of stuff


SWS type extension to run for notation purposes would be killer!
http://www.sws-extension.org/#features

This would add insane flexibility for any type of composing

[memyselfandus]

How about something like this

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5169

Text in the piano roll. to match up with notation view? or just for the piano roll view?

and this

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5082

[memyselfandus]

Let's not forget about getting the Percusion staff to line up with GM and various drum maps..........

[casrya]

Using the notation editor to view a played piano part today I was thinking it would nice to have pedal markings (e.g. from CC11 or CC64) and I don't think anyone has requested this yet (although could have missed it)? Any interest?

Regards,

casrya

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by casrya

Using the notation editor to view a played piano part today I was thinking it would nice to have pedal markings (e.g. from CC11 or CC64) and I don't think anyone has requested this yet (although could have missed it)? Any interest?

Regards,

casrya

Indeed +1

[Victor_M]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Indeed +1

Yes! +1

[ijijn]

Sounds good.

Ideally, both usual forms: the more modern pedal lines, whose glorious ASCII art representation is something like |____/\____|, and the original Ped. Ped. * approach.

Some virtual pianos (e.g. Pianoteq) support "partial pedalling" for half-pedal and similar effects, so having an editable CC64 pedal change value anywhere from 0 to 127 for the various visual control points would be nice too.

[EvilDragon]

Yes, pedal markings are a must (both variants).

Regarding half-damping, I'd leave that to piano roll CC lanes, honestly.

In fact, I am not aware how is half-damping even handled in, say, Sibelius, or Finale?