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Old 06-07-2018, 05:46 AM   #2481
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I have recently started tgreating reaper as a very basic tape recorder again.

Amazing how quickly a workable demo can be done that way.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:08 AM   #2482
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I have recently started tgreating reaper as a very basic tape recorder again.

Amazing how quickly a workable demo can be done that way.

Yeah. Sometimes I miss the days of my old Fostex 4 track. I'd sit on my bed and pump out song after song in no time.

Sure the songs sounded like ass, but the expectations were realistic (unlike those I currently have). Funny thing ---> All my friends didn't care one bit about the sound quality, it made everyone dream.

Also, I find people are very forgiving and capable of 'filling in the gaps' if the song is good. This Fostex was friendly to the 'mood' and a great tool.


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Old 06-07-2018, 08:31 AM   #2483
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Yeah. Sometimes I miss the days of my old Fostex 4 track. I'd sit on my bed and pump out song after song in no time.
I have the more "modern" version of that, the MR-8. It's fantastic. Runs off of CF cards, which are hard to find, but fortunately every locomotive on the rails uses CF cards, so I can liberate them when I need to.

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Old 06-07-2018, 08:47 AM   #2484
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Indeed to the above: Tried to have that tape style approach with last recordings, the buzzword being 'performance capture'

Boiled down to setting up for simultaneous guitar and voice miking then doing take after take after take until I had the best take of whole song. Painful as not my comfort zone but got there.
Can splice n dice similar takes if need be but essentially the core is a decent performance, then can use all the toys to add tinsel and decorations to that as required.

There is a certain feeling of freedom from being released from the prison of the 'grid'

Seems so obvious and was how it was done early days of recording but easy to get off track these days and try and construct your way to perfection piecemeal, when capturing something interesting is the key.

Tempted to take it further and replicate old setups/mixing, e.g couple of ribbon mics only and use only the effects available at tne time etc. Just as a starting point, nothing super strict, as piece may end up screaming for a granular synth solo...
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:52 AM   #2485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I have recently started tgreating reaper as a very basic tape recorder again.

Amazing how quickly a workable demo can be done that way.
I'm also doing that.

Sometimes I resolve syncing issues [performance errors due to a lack of rehearsal, or something ] down the track by simply recording a vocal track singing the drums and/or bass timing and align MIDI notes to that; it's a reasonably fast, very accurate method which reflects actual performance and often saves on needing to re record a bunch of insts, esp if using vsti's.

I'll post the following for anyone who might find it useful, it's become a major feature of me workflow, dunno if other DAWs have this feature but it works great in Reaper.

Quote:
For anyone who wants to use this method, -open e.g the bass MIDI trk in the MIDI editor [Piano roll] then click the little exclamation mark icon in the extreme bottom left corner of the screen, unattach the window from the docker so it floats.

Set "Opacity" to 75% [which is also on the dropdown menu of the exlamation mark icon] then right click the area above the Piano Roll, choose "View", then "Piano Roll Timebase" and then "Project synced".

Now it's possible to drag the floating MIDI editor to the audio [wave] track you recorded and you can see it underneath the MIDI editor which remains in sync with all other tracks regardless of resizing windows or other adjustments.
Note: As usual, if there's pitchbend info attached to MIDI notes then usually you need to make sure that moves with the notes.

Someone might weigh in again with how that can be set as default or accomplished in the same edit as I know it's possible but I forget so I've been doing that with separate edits.

Last edited by morgon; 06-07-2018 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:40 PM   #2486
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So anyway...in the first 45 seconds or so of this song I mixed...I believe I am actually getting this effect. Can anyone hear it?
Ummmmmm... yes and no? I don't hear the ringing phone per se, I do think you've maybe got some artifacting or just tracks competing up in that range. Tell me more about the instrumentation? I'm hearing an acoustic guitar with lots of attack, pick/string noise, and a shaker of some kind, sounds almost like a tambourine depending on what I'm listening on, kinda stepping on each other. I think I'd try to decide which one I most need in that range and lowpass the other out of it.

Good luck! Like the track, kinda Floyd-ish to me.

2nd thought: OK so it is a tambourine, yah? I let your channel run and I hear it on some of the other tracks. I think that's your problem, I'd just lose it, I don't think it really adds anything to the track and gives me almost instant ear fatigue. Lol. Sorry, excuse my opinionating. If you really love the tambo maybe a less busy part? Now if there's no tambourine on those tracks we both have a real problem...

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Old 06-08-2018, 04:01 AM   #2487
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From memory it's mainly a slightly aggressive hihat that I need to lower, along with one of those rattle looking things with the chain link stuff all around it that you sort of manipulate by hand to make a noise. Dunno what they're called.

The good news is that you can't hear the ringing phone.

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Old 06-08-2018, 11:48 PM   #2488
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...a shaker of some kind...
Oh ok, got it in one lol. Yah what is that? Uncle Intertubes says... Cabasa!

Used to have one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu4_uwQWA-g

...for years until I knew what it was called lol. Dude's a hoot huh? Approximate! Layin' some vocab on ya!

Well again good luck, sounds real good give or take the odd cabasa lol.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:56 PM   #2489
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Answering my own question from earlier for the benefit of any interested latecomers... this thread was edited down to yep's posts and others directly related by a member called Smurf and his edits are still available here:

https://stash.reaper.fm/u/Smurf?u=u

Happy Reapering!
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:55 AM   #2490
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Originally Posted by fred garvin View Post
Oh ok, got it in one lol. Yah what is that? Uncle Intertubes says... Cabasa!

Used to have one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu4_uwQWA-g

...for years until I knew what it was called lol. Dude's a hoot huh? Approximate! Layin' some vocab on ya!

Well again good luck, sounds real good give or take the odd cabasa lol.
Much appreciated...and you were right.

I've tidied up the areas you mentioned and I think it's somewhat improved. Funny the things you don't notice huh? (me that is)

Cheers mate
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:11 PM   #2491
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Oh cool, glad to help! Was saying to a friend the other day, it's funny how we create these wonderful sounds that inspire us, and painstakingly craft these performances, and insist on perfect (or close as) clarity and fidelity in recording... and then take a butcher knife to everything to make the freakin mix work lol.
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Old 04-06-2019, 06:46 PM   #2492
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Thanks Yep, appreciate this thread/advice!!!
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:02 PM   #2493
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Almost 1.5 million views on this amazing thread and it deserves even more.
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Old 04-09-2019, 12:17 AM   #2494
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Maybe some selfless person should do an up to date pdf of all the stuff that has been posted since the last one! (he says, sitting firmly on his hands)
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:55 AM   #2495
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Maybe some selfless person should do an up to date pdf of all the stuff that has been posted since the last one! (he says, sitting firmly on his hands)
OK - ZIP file with PDFs of all the pages in this thread:

http://condition3.net/yeps-thread-W-...2019-04-19.zip

And a big thank you to yep for starting this and sharing his amazing knowledge. I've been out of music for several years now but want to get back in. Back when I was recording, I learned EVERYTHING from this thread.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:36 AM   #2496
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@RacerX29: A big thank you from all who bookmarked this thread.

I can now re-read bits when I am on holiday with no wifi!
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:17 AM   #2497
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Default Another thank you

Just another schmuck who wanted to thank Yep and some others who gave of their time and expertise on the earlier parts of this thread. I'm one of a million people who came across it while searching for a DAW mixing primer, and got a ton of useful info from it. I'd already tracked most of my upcoming album, but still was able to improve how things sounded during mixing a ton by applying some of what I took away from the thread. Just mastered the first song last night, and in all my excitement, wanted to take a second to thank Yep et al.
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Old 08-03-2019, 04:36 PM   #2498
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Hmmm... Software fixes hey?

Auto-tune, transient and EQ fixes only go so far, at least in my case.

---> I'm having difficulties with expression (e.g. emotional communication), ideal tone (e.g. the product of breath control, vocal function, adequate use of resonance, color, quality, registration, etc.), and figuring the best melody lines to fit the music. I've only begun to consciously work on these things, and also how and why to purposefully chose certain words, not only for their meaning, but for the arrangement of consonances and vowels. Never mind the struggle with proper microphone technique and all the times I fail to properly warm up my vocal cords.

Eq- ssshmEQ

I just need to sing better, on top of writing better songs.

Three memories just popped in my head: 1) this guy I met in a park in Cotati, California - sat beside me with his guitar and sang a song about Snow Cones and I was in shock - it was perfect in every way possible, and 2) a homeless guy in Ocean Springs, Mississippi, borrowed my guitar and sang a country song he wrote about a girl and lost love - it was so much better than anything I'd ever heard on the radio, 3) in a Rainbow gathering in the middle of forest, by the fire pit, a woman picked up a guitar and starting singing a song while walking around the fire. Everyone stopped talking an listened as she belted out what can be described as a punchy, rhythmic, reggae-folk type of song. She didn't have the greatest voice, but sang with confidence, energy, and life, and the guitar was just about right.

What these songs have in common was how simple they were and how they were sung with so much real and raw emotions -- how the melody lines and words were working perfectly with the whole sum of everything else. It was synergy at it's best. I'm almost 100% sure that what I heard in these three occasions could probably never be fully captured on tape or digital tracks.

I'm not too sure where I'm going with these stories, besides for the fact that --- I need to write better songs and stop worrying so much about EQ, compression, saturation, transients, etc. Perhaps it is easier to fork out money $, turn knobs, and slide sliders, than it is to create and express something original and great?
Trying to record as a musician making music, you are in effect two persons in the same space at the same time. Why not simply have a room with a high quality voice activated mic / recording system to capture your performance whenever you pick up your guitar and start playing? Possibly, one reason record labels charged bands so much for recording 70s-80s, was due to Artists going into studios and just letting tape roll to capture whatever happened. Going for that moment of pure golden spontaneity makes great recordings. When it happens, it's brilliant.

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Old 08-10-2019, 09:43 PM   #2499
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will be brief
First and only post on thread unless something happens that involves me directly.

I am a Blind coputer user, in love with reaper, even bought reaMix as suggested, responsible for the updating and maintenance of the www.reaperaccessibility.com site, a musician by conviction and discipline, trying to improve everyday.
I love contributing and helping others and that is precisely why I decided to bring reaper documentation for the blind on the www.reaperaccessibility.com site at no cost-its a way of giving back. And probably the OP of this thread resonates with the thought that there is a bit of living in giving and sharing with others.

Regarding the thread
read this ALL, of course plan to go back over and over. Laughed, had a blast, thought for a while, everything in between, what a great community tthe outstanding 40% of posters who managed to stay on point and contributed with the pdf's... that 40% counts with all of my suppport and admiration (not being excludng but hey, sometimes you gotta give deserved recognition). This truly inspires. Too bad the amazing discussion ended up so abruptly and in such a missleading way from page 45 or so onwards.
One thin missing from the pdf, which I got a kick out of and even though I understood what it was before reading the post but its essential to include it, please please.
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=247
if its too late for it to be added, its understandable but its nice, and I'm just trying to save newcomers to this thread some time here. Searching the reaper stash for "yep" is satisfactory, as well as for an acronym made with the title of this thread, "wdyrsla"

Conclussion
a friend who is a sound engineer with a finished career and I (a blockhead who has finished his degree in jazz piano performance and a master in unniversity education) thank you sincerely and forever, and will re-read this ALL of the time. We usually hang out to share and learn from each other (I teach him musical harmony,mostly--he teaches me mixing and recording and concepts are so intertwined its almost pure bliss) and this is a tremendous companion. All of you can envy us with rage all you want from this moment on.
May you, yep and all of the wonderful contributors find success, delight and a bit of life in every single of your upcoming endeavours! I wish nothing more.
Sorry I missed this, but I'm really glad to hear that this might have been helpful to blind users of a DAW like REAPER.


Music and audio are art forms where the blind can not only fully participate, but may even have advantages over the sighted. But as music creation and recording becomes more and more focused around computers and software with visual interfaces, I hope we are not creating barriers for people who rely on other senses.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:45 AM   #2500
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this isn't really in sequence with recent posts in this thread, but what the hell, it seems like a good place to discuss it. what are people's thoughts on compressing the entire drum kit, as opposed to just the individual instruments like the snare?

I feel like using compression is one thing (not the only thing) that I haven't really grasped properly. i use it to 'fix' certain tracks, but i've found that automation is far more effective and generally sounds better if you put the time in. but as for using it musically, or as an overt effect, I am still somewhat confused. I have tended to stick to ReaComp and try to go for very gentle levels of compression (as per various recommendations in this thread) but then I think 'why I am i bothering with this, if i cannot hear the effect?'

i ask about compressing the entire kit, because this is where I've found it much easier to discern the effect of the various parameters, especially the attack. so I wondered: is this a common application of a compressor? what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it like this? I use drum VSTis and key in the parts with a MIDI keyboard, so there is at least some variation in volume in the performance for the compressor to work with.
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Old 08-12-2019, 04:16 AM   #2501
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this isn't really in sequence with recent posts in this thread, but what the hell, it seems like a good place to discuss it. what are people's thoughts on compressing the entire drum kit, as opposed to just the individual instruments like the snare?

I feel like using compression is one thing (not the only thing) that I haven't really grasped properly. i use it to 'fix' certain tracks, but i've found that automation is far more effective and generally sounds better if you put the time in. but as for using it musically, or as an overt effect, I am still somewhat confused. I have tended to stick to ReaComp and try to go for very gentle levels of compression (as per various recommendations in this thread) but then I think 'why I am i bothering with this, if i cannot hear the effect?'

i ask about compressing the entire kit, because this is where I've found it much easier to discern the effect of the various parameters, especially the attack. so I wondered: is this a common application of a compressor? what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it like this? I use drum VSTis and key in the parts with a MIDI keyboard, so there is at least some variation in volume in the performance for the compressor to work with.
Sort of depends on the sound you are looking for. If you meticulously mix your drums, compression may be used to just "glue" them all together. This would be using gentle compression, like you describe that you can barely discern. Or, you can compress the heck out of the drums, if thats the sound you want. Or send all your drums to a buss, use heavy compression, and mix that in with a second buss that is dry, for a "New York" style compression (parallel compression).Or, you can not use compression at all. I've seen arguments on the technical aspect going both ways, but I would say just use what gets the sound you want, regardless of what "experts" or other artist say is "correct."
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #2502
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I'm not sure I totally agree with the philosophy of requiring high-end gear to create a great production.

Check the track below, all of which was done in my home studio using a Tascam-32SD recorder and Hosa cabling (save the lead guitar solo at around 03:30, which was recorded via a Fractal Audio Systems Axe-FX II amp modeling unit into a studio recorder).

Besides that lead guitar, I played and recorded all other tracks. Here's the instruments that I used:

Guitars line-in to a Carvin DX1642 mixer, feeding the Tascam via a single XLR input:
– Godin Seagull Entourage acoustic
– Fender Jazz bass

Line 6 Spider III modeling amp, line-out to same mixer:
– Fender Stratocaster
– Gibson Les Paul Studio

Keyboards, line-in to same mixer:
– Korg MS-20 analog synthesizer
– Yamaha MX49 digital synthesizer

Drums, the only thing that were mic'd, with 7 direct XLR inputs into the Tascam using CAD microphones. Yep, cheap mics, but proper placement is everything.
– DW Drums with Zildjian, Paiste and Wuhan cymbals
– Additional percussion by Treeworks and Rhythm Tech

Granted, it was mixed and mastered in a Pro recording studio, but no amount of mixing/mastering is going to make a recording sound great unless the sources are good in the first place. It's the old, garbage in, garbage out routine.

Experiment to maximize your existing gear set-up, and you'll produce the great sounding source tracks required for an awesome overall production.

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13734072

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Old 08-13-2019, 02:23 PM   #2503
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Forgot to mention, the room I recorded all of this in is 12x14' with a slanted ceiling which matches the roof. The only acoustic treatment it's ever received was 1x1' foam tiles on the French entry doors.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:15 AM   #2504
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Craig.


Nice track. Lots of work there.

I agree. I've always found that there is an over obsession with gear and plugins that has almost become more of an obsession than creating the music.

The craft lies in the person's ability and imagination not the perfection of gear.

Regards,

SR
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:25 AM   #2505
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Now where's the "like" button?
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:21 AM   #2506
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Thanks guys!
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:19 AM   #2507
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Thank you yep, very nice read.
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Old 02-23-2020, 06:22 AM   #2508
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Default sorry, I've skipped a bit!

Came to this thread a tad late and after reading 40+ pages have skipped to the end owing to the time it is taking (as has been written) to stop reading and actually do more recording. So apologies to later posters!

I am new to Reaper being an old analogue hand (is that an oxymoron?). I really was reading to understand modern DAW techniques and Yep has helped considerably in that and in general.

I started many moons ago with BBC engineering training and a broad spectrum of programme material but had latterly been working in other fields so am back to recording as a hobby.

I agree with much that Yep has written, especially early on. I do think however too much is made of going vintage by some. It was a a significant improvement when solid state equjpment was 'perfected' (it was quite poor initially!) reducing maintenance in the professional world and improving sound quality and flexibility; revalation when digital processing was introduced 16 bit being all that is required as a minimum.

The thrust of getting your monitoring right was and still is key. An interesting read for some with the time is the publicly available BBC report on the development of the LS3/5 small monitor and my favourite at the time the LS5/5 or /6. Great in their day to show up all the characteristics needed for mono recording. Stereo made other speakers common (such as Spendors) and initiated later LS models to be developed.

Studio acoustic design was paramount (in radio and film dubbing at least!).

The need to match levels accross a miriad of programme sources and equipment chains plus not overloading land lines meant standardisation was required hence the adoption of 'zero' level (0.775v r.m.s ) corresponding to the max power toleration of 600ohms landlines. This corresponded to '4' on a peak programme meter (PPM).
These meters were adopted to reduce overload distortion with a response time of 2mS as ears are generally impervious to distortions of less than that duration thus also maximising signal to noise ratio. Nevertheless monitoring and mixing relied as much if not more on listening with ones ears, as highlighted by Yep.

With modern equipment, DAWs, better electronic design, higher bit density, good relatively cheap monitor speakers, improved cheaper microphones etc all readily available the two most difficult areas for the hobbyist are performances and acoustics. So very pleased to see the latter getting a good mention early on.

Not as happy with the way the thread developed concentrating on guitars, drums (mainly) a touch of vocals and not a significant amount of navel gazing! On the performance front, that other most important area, there is much more than distortion (addition!) and sims of 'rock' that could have been covered better ranging from , say, choirs to the perhaps more extreme natural sounds and wildlife recording.

However given the massive contributions I suspect I will be in a minority and tbe thread has certainly met a need. Well done Yep and other contributors! It has made me reflect not a little and learn too!

....ah the days of changing blue valves, razor blade edits and the Engineering Training Centre in Worcestershire, sadly long gone!

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Old 02-25-2020, 08:26 PM   #2509
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Good with my joyoshare audio recorder...
But seriously, recorder is not almighty. It makes perfect sense to me that there is a difference between the ad and the reality.
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Old 03-17-2020, 08:12 PM   #2510
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Came to this thread a tad late and after reading 40+ pages have skipped to the end owing to the time it is taking (as has been written) to stop reading and actually do more recording. So apologies to later posters!
Dittos to Allybye's post. I am currently on page 29 of this excellent thread. Thank You Yep...and all ! And I skipped ahead just to see if the thread was still alive and well...and I'm very glad see it is. After I post this I am back to continue the read :-)

I have been recording, mixing for nearly 45 years...not a typo. Started out with a Sony R2R (a 377 I think) with sound on sound in the mid 70s. From there went to a Teac 3340s, then a Fostex A8 , then a Tascam 8516b, which I still own, and now into Reaper ITB. What a journey...

I have many recordings of myself and friends through the years, many very good...more than many not so much. But they have all been completed and a few were locally released.

One thing I have realized through all this time is that I have seen a great progression in my own music as well as in the mechanics of my recording and mixing abilities. The very good ones mentioned above are recent recordings in which I have used most of this thread's views, suggestions and directions to practice my "craft" with astounding results. Far better results than gear chasing...although I love great gear :-)

As mentioned many times, the solutions are simple. As long as you take the time to listen, determine what and where "issues" exist and then apply the necessary tools to address the issue at hand...each song and mix, or project you do will improve over your previous work. Everything from composing, arrangements, instrument condition, to mics and cables, gain, cleaning tracks, FX, mixing and through to burning the CD or mixing to analog. And it is still getting better all the time!

45 years ago I decided I was in this for the long haul so I never gave up. My only addition to the thread at this time is for you to do the same. don't give up. I guarantee you'll be glad you didn't.

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Old 06-08-2020, 11:25 AM   #2511
Cr3w1sh03s
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Finally made it to the end... only took a few weeks.
Much thanks to Yep and the rest of the gang that made this a truly epic thread.
Now to apply what I've read.
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:14 AM   #2512
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2024... and here I am again reading this (again!)

How is this thread NOT a sticky?
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Old 01-06-2024, 11:52 AM   #2513
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Agree, I only referenced this thread and pdf for somebody trying get good guitar sound. As this whole thread shows, getting the right sounds in any composition is so much more.

I have to find certain reference recordings for types of music to refresh and tune my ears in. There are some that just have it and other like me that can get lost even with all the help in the wdysla.pdf of this thread.
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Old 01-06-2024, 08:37 PM   #2514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogieshoes View Post
Agree, I only referenced this thread and pdf for somebody trying get good guitar sound. As this whole thread shows, getting the right sounds in any composition is so much more.

I have to find certain reference recordings for types of music to refresh and tune my ears in. There are some that just have it and other like me that can get lost even with all the help in the wdysla.pdf of this thread.
Can you link to the .pdf ?please
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Old 01-07-2024, 12:44 AM   #2515
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https://stash.reaper.fm/browse.php?q=yep
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Old 01-07-2024, 03:23 AM   #2516
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Thanks for that link. I have it stored in pdf format already, but having the various threads archived with a link is really useful.
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Old 01-08-2024, 01:42 PM   #2517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioBabble View Post
2024... and here I am again reading this (again!)

How is this thread NOT a sticky?
It used to be, and still should be.

I mean we are well over a decade past when it was originally posted, and people *still* reference it.
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Old 01-09-2024, 01:09 AM   #2518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome_oneil View Post
It used to be, and still should be.

I mean we are well over a decade past when it was originally posted, and people *still* reference it.
It looks like it was un-stickied at Yep's request since the thread had gotten way off-topic by that time. (https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1980)
also: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...postcount=2010

Smurf made a pdf of the thread up to that point which is here: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...postcount=1982

^^ this is probably the closest to a 'book' of the good stuff. However, I think it reads best as a thread right here on the forum.

There are also some good external links of some of Yep's posts on other forums which unfortunately are now dead, but I'm trying to track them down as I read through (only at page 12 at the moment).

Yep's Guide to Better Vocal Recordings

Yep on Mastering

also, this spin-off thread here:

Producing yourself-- WDYRSLA spinoff

Other threads featuring Yep:

How do YOU insure loud mixes?

Last edited by AudioBabble; 01-23-2024 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 01-09-2024, 08:37 AM   #2519
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Great to see this thread again. Saving for later as well as the other links above.

Many thanks AudioBabble!
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