pitch shifting guitar to sound like a bass guitar in reaper?

[vejichan]

not interested in buying a bass guitar/no need for extra expenses and time wasted on buying bass strings/settings up bass. Also not making money with my music. Just want to make that clear because usually people will say buy a bass guitar

Does anybody know how to make the best of using on the plugins in reaper to simulate a bass guitar sound using my guitar? enough for scratch tracks?
also i have bass amps in amplitube 3 if that helps.

any helps or presets/settings is appreciated
thanks

[msundh]

I recorded DI with neck mick.
Pitch on track (not VST) with Elastic 3 pro/Normal)
Used normal Reacomp and JS/Bass manager/Booster.
I used that on my lates song (see my signature)

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by vejichan

not interested in buying a bass guitar/no need for extra expenses and time wasted on buying bass strings/settings up bass. Also not making money with my music. Just want to make that clear because usually people will say buy a bass guitar

Does anybody know how to make the best of using on the plugins in reaper to simulate a bass guitar sound using my guitar? enough for scratch tracks?
also i have bass amps in amplitube 3 if that helps.

any helps or presets/settings is appreciated
thanks

At least listen carefully to some bass players and try to do what they do rather than what you would do as a guitar player.

Most of the problem with guitar players playing bass lines is that there is a huge difference between approaches.
As for how you make a guitar sound like a bass, you cant but just pulling it down an ocatave will get you close enough for scratch tracks.
Personally, when I need an instrument I don`t play I usually manage to find a friend who can bash something out for me. Might be a lot less work to do it that way.

[msundh]

Well, bass sound is one thing and bass playing is another.

[richie43]

I used to be "just" a guitar player, but now do own (and know how to play) some basses. BUT....to address your question, I can say that even as a good guitar player, I had better luck using vsti's and a keyboard for bass parts than using a pitched-down guitar. Just a thought.

[ivansc]

Didnt want to say that in the light of your initial comments, but I am with Richie on this one!
A good bass VSTi will also hopefully give you the proper attack and release on the notes. This is generally the guitarists achilles heel when pretending to be a bass player.

If it makes you feel any better I am a guitar playing bassist and my guitar playing is far too rhythm-influenced rather than guitarist-influenced!

[msundh]

This thread wasn't about which is best bass/vst/pitched down guitar, just how to do it.

I like using VSTs, but if you need some advanced bending/playing style, you need the real thing. I ain't quick enough on these thick bass strings, so I used my guitar.
I tested the sound of my very cheap bass compared to my pitched down guitar and heard no difference in quality, but it is a VERY cheap Bass

[bazsound]

ive done it now and then to get a less sample/synth sounding bass.

hwoever your results with vary depending on the guitar, your playing and the plugins used.

the free octavers ive tried are OK but on there own sound obviously detuned and dont report there latency correctly so you have to delay your track after the FX.

i used a combination of an octaver with an EQ and waves Max bass. plus mixing in the original single with distortion and also max bass.#

plus compression.

the majour problem i find is you tend to get alot of warble.

[Bezmotivnik]

Originally Posted by richie43

I had better luck using vsti's and a keyboard for bass parts than using a pitched-down guitar.

As a guy with over two dozen electric basses, I'm thinking about dumping actual bass for a well set-up bass VSTi. If I had a sound designer to tweak it for me, I'd do it in a heartbeat and not look back. I'm hearing less and less real bass these days and what real electric bass there is is usually so stepped on that it sounds synthed anyway.

Yeah, don't screw around with faking it on guitar. Fake it on keys.

[ivansc]

Walks away shaking head and muttering "heresy"

[msundh]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Walks away shaking head and muttering "heresy"

I'm an Ateist, but that's the same thing right?

[vejichan]

How should I set compression? 2:1 ratio, fast attack and fast release? Also should I lo pass at 50hz and hi pass at 7500hz? And cut 500hz?

[The Telenator]

Originally Posted by Bezmotivnik

As a guy with over two dozen electric basses, I'm thinking about dumping actual bass for a well set-up bass VSTi. If I had a sound designer to tweak it for me, I'd do it in a heartbeat and not look back. I'm hearing less and less real bass these days and what real electric bass there is is usually so stepped on that it sounds synthed anyway.

Yeah, don't screw around with faking it on guitar. Fake it on keys.

Same here. I changed over this year, in 2015. I was all set to throw a grand or more at another fine bass, but just gave up on the whole idea. Even the best bassists, unless they are very very used to being recorded regularly, can easily be out of tune half of the time or more. Get excited during recording a tune? play with a pick do you? Off by 15, 20, 30 cents on some notes, maybe all of them. Most good engineering staff just don't allow it. I make them do the whole part over after the band session is done. (Or we replace with a synth-ed bass line.) Everybody is using keyboards for bass now -- even a lot of bassists! No tuning hassles.

Same in some ways for guitar pitched down. Yeah, I used to do it, too. It can get you by if messed with sufficiently, but it's just another headache you're asking for. Best to forget the 'fun' idea and move on. It is a noble attempt, though, of all bass-guitar-deprived guitarists.

[zeekat]

Bass guitars are getting out of style? Now that's new. I was living with conviction it's still the easiest and most populart way to do bass tracks for even stiff-fingered cretins with tenuous guitar skills (like me).

Shame we didn't manage to make OP buy a bass couple of such threads back by the way

[LightOfDay]

@Telenator: and nobody of all the involved so knowledgeable people knows of the concept of compensation of a stringed bass-instrument and how to tune it properly? and the studio has no decent compensated correct to tune and to play bass-guitar at stock? come one, 10th of thousands of dollars for mics and preamps and no correct intonating bass?

laughable. I think your story is a fairy-tale.

and no, basses will not dispappear. its another fairy-tale like the one that were told for example in the early 80s when drum-machines were reported to eradicate all drumming human being. it was then stupid and turned out to be stupid and guess what that prediciton about bass-guitar-players is now?

[vejichan]

I understand bass guitar is an important part of any type of music. honestly it's not about the money...re-read my post...I Have 5guitars ...I don't have the space and time to invest in buying strings, paying a tech for a setup, convincing my wife to buy another instrument, changing strings, learning how to properly play bass guitar ...and the biggest one...nobody is listening to my music except for me. I just want to fill the empty spot in my music. with something that sounds like a bass guitar. As close to a bass guitar using my guitar. I don't play piano and I don't know how to. So I prefer pitch shifting my guitar to sound like a bass guitar. If anybody can help me get there would be really appreciated

[zeekat]

If you plan to make music in a way that hides the bass under other instruments (guitars), then there's a chance that any oddities of pitch-shifted guitar won't be noticeable. I used to pitch-shift guitar before buying bass and it was doing the trick, bought the bass mostly to avoid that weird flangey artifacts that pitch shifted guitar had, in a moments where bass was more clearly audible (I wasn't planning to always hide the bass under guitars).

Maybe try picking the guitar with fingers? I think the most of that flangery sound comes from pitchshifted pick attack. Or pitch shifted fret rattle, I guess.

[Geoff-h3o]

Haven't done this myself, so I don't know how accurate you can get... but once you have done the conversion you can drop the midi an octave or two to trigger bass vsti.

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/syno...nglabs/details (free);


http://www.widisoft.com/english/widi...-midi-vst.html (not free)

[Geoff-h3o]

see thread for converting with Reatune

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=61939

[Fabian]

Irrespective of whether you should actually do it or not...

Do not do the down pitching on-line, like using ReaPitch or ReaTune. You get much better result and much more control if you do it off-line. Record the guitar (or whatever) and then pitch down in the Item Properties dialog. There you can choose different algorithms for pitching, and you can set different formant preserving options. I use elastique Pro with Presv Formants (Highest Pitches), but that all depends on your own preferences and gear.

[Bubble07]

Originally Posted by vejichan

I understand bass guitar is an important part of any type of music. honestly it's not about the money...re-read my post...I Have 5guitars ...I don't have the space and time to invest in buying strings, paying a tech for a setup, convincing my wife to buy another instrument, changing strings, learning how to properly play bass guitar ...and the biggest one...nobody is listening to my music except for me. I just want to fill the empty spot in my music. with something that sounds like a bass guitar. As close to a bass guitar using my guitar. I don't play piano and I don't know how to. So I prefer pitch shifting my guitar to sound like a bass guitar. If anybody can help me get there would be really appreciated

If it's just you who is going to listen then you are probably over thinking and under listening.

I would just start by playing the guitar flattened a few tones (like some shredders do) and then drop that an octave by changing the item properties and then processing the hell out of that by playing around with FX, Amp sims etc.

[Bezmotivnik]

Originally Posted by LightOfDay

@Telenator: and nobody of all the involved so knowledgeable people knows of the concept of compensation of a stringed bass-instrument and how to tune it properly? and the studio has no decent compensated correct to tune and to play bass-guitar at stock? come one, 10th of thousands of dollars for mics and preamps and no correct intonating bass?

laughable. I think your story is a fairy-tale.

I've worked on basses for over forty years and as far as I'm concerned the electric bass is mainly a collection of inherent vices that really start to show up when you're using the instrument for the purpose for which it's originally intended.

He's dead right. If you doubt it, spend some time with a bass and an oscilloscope. Most (perhaps all) basses are literally impossible to play in tune, assuming you can decide what "in tune" even really means -- especially on the E (or, God forbid, on the B) with flats. There is so much wave interference and cancellation with conflicting resonances that a played note will throw a 20-cent wow on some basses. You can hear it clearly. Never mind the dead spots.

Jack Endino wrote a great article years back about how it was literally impossible for a guitar to be "in tune" on a track, and why. He was right. Multiply that by ten for an electric bass.

Currently produced strings don't fit (FMIC doesn't produce a string to properly fit a toploader, some 85% of the basses they sell), the tensions are unbalanced and the windings are imprecise, all of which contribute to problems.

Never mind manufacturers have no interest in producing decent products because marketing has trained buyers to accept any crap that comes out, designed to please marketing focus groups full of people who don't have a clue about what they should really be looking for. Production is frequently awful (try to find a 4003 that isn't factory-ruined, as but one obvious expensive example), and "new" features are frequently counterproductive and incredibly wrongheaded -- but they justify a price increase to credulous buyers, which is all that matters.

After decades of this, electric bass is starting to simply depress me. Even after four days worth of bench time attending to factory screwups on a new bass, you can't find decent strings (and electric bass is ALL about the right strings -- which are expensive things with which to have a bunch of failed experiments trying to find something that fits and works) that don't have gross imbalances, and you can't do much about the individual resonance faults that particular bass will probably have.

Out of the approximately two dozen basses I have, I have at most two I think are fit to record with, and I'm not happy with them and think they need more work. I know full-time session guys in LA and Nashville who go through far more basses than that before finding a couple they think are relatively OK for the studio.

In real life, you just record direct and compress the daylights out of the track and hope to tweak what you can and bury the rest in the mix.

Very little of this tsuris transfers to simulated bass on keys, which is one of the main reasons it's becoming more common in mainstream music of all kinds -- and few listeners are any the wiser.

What's not to love?

[vejichan]

the post wasn't "please convince me to buy a bass guitar"
the post was how to get as close to a bass guitar sound with your guitar using reaper/plugs etc.

again, it's not about money.. I'm just not interested in having any other instrument in my house other than my guitars.
here are a few videos about this.. and I think it helps other people who are doing what I'm trying to do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLK-1Q4qzwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIRkyxzaBJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SJvxnxWR4I

any further suggestions like compression settings or extra tricks to get closer is much appreciated. But going on and on saying Oh just get a bass guitar=====> kinda like saying to all the people out there with ez drummer 2 and superior drummer... why don't you just buy a drum set?

[Bezmotivnik]

If you don't have a MIDI controller, then do it with Reaper's virtual keyboard and some free bass-simulation VSTi. Try them out until you find one that works. The worst one will be better than some nonsense with a guitar.

Problem solved.

[The Telenator]

Originally Posted by LightOfDay

@Telenator: and nobody of all the involved so knowledgeable people knows of the concept of compensation of a stringed bass-instrument and how to tune it properly? and the studio has no decent compensated correct to tune and to play bass-guitar at stock? come one, 10th of thousands of dollars for mics and preamps and no correct intonating bass?

laughable. I think your story is a fairy-tale.

and no, basses will not dispappear. its another fairy-tale like the one that were told for example in the early 80s when drum-machines were reported to eradicate all drumming human being. it was then stupid and turned out to be stupid and guess what that prediciton about bass-guitar-players is now?

Did it ever occur to you that I don't give a flying fuck what you think?

Now, I'm primarily a guitarist and keyboardist, but I love bass guitars and the whole notion of playing bass dearly. I'm also a great fan of the upright jazz style of bass playing (among the recording bassists who are by far best at playing their instruments in tune, btw).

But the fact of the matter is, bass contends with drums as being the most in need of fixing after any group recording sessions in pop or rock. Tough if you don't like it, but thats the facts. Many, no, most I'd say bass lines need major work to either pitch correct or be re-recorded after a group session is done. I wish it weren't true,because it's time most of us would much rather spend taking care of other, finer duties.

Even though I don't really consider myself a bassist, I love playing them, yet I'm not stupid enough to think I could go in and, with any reasonable amount of speed and economy, record anything I'd ever want to keep as a finished bass line. As many years as I've played one, I still get clacking and all the other lovely sounds that are often great LIVE but horrible on an important album. If you are stupid enough (or even have any real skill at all on bass, which I now doubt), go record yourself and prove us to all what a fool you are. Meanwhile, go annoy someone else.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by vejichan

the post wasn't "please convince me to buy a bass guitar"
the post was how to get as close to a bass guitar sound with your guitar using reaper/plugs etc.

The problem with that I think is the harmonics and general string noises getting shifted along with the fundamental, which will make a pitch-shifted guitar sound dull and unnatural. Not to mention the artifacts of pitch-shifting to a lower ocatave itself. And there is difference in string tension, which will make fluctuations in pitch from a guitar string sound exaggerated and weird when pitch-shifted down. You can try to play lightly to minimize this, but you really can't compensate for it. Running a pitch-shifted guitar through eq, compression, bass amp sim, whatever, isn't going to fix these issues. So there are some of the problems that you face.

I have done it in a pinch, but it isn't a pleasant experience. Picking up a bass (even a cheap one) is a much more enjoyable experience. And hell, some of us guitarists never change bass strings, because we aren't really bass players any way. And even with really old strings and zero maintenance, the timbre of a real bass sounds much better than a pitch-shifted guitar as a bass, and it is much easier to play as a bass.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by vejichan

the post wasn't "please convince me to buy a bass guitar"
the post was how to get as close to a bass guitar sound with your guitar using reaper/plugs etc.

again, it's not about money..

Maybe JamOrigin + a bass synth or other VSTi. It really comes down to which trade off works best for you. Being a guitar player... If I were in your position and weren't going to use a bass, pitch shifting the guitar would likely be at the bottom of my list however that's YMMV unless I were potentially blending that with a VSTi or something. You might have some luck frontloading it with something to add extra highs/harmonics before pitching down, experiment.

[The Telenator]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

The problem with that I think is the harmonics and general string noises getting shifted along with the fundamental, which will make a pitch-shifted guitar sound dull and unnatural. Not to mention the artifacts of pitch-shifting to a lower ocatave itself. And there is difference in string tension, which will make fluctuations in pitch from a guitar string sound exaggerated and weird when pitch-shifted down. You can try to play lightly to minimize this ...

Pretty much all true to one degree or the other what you say. Yet I used to do it quite a lot in the beginning, to varying success. Sometimes I think it was as much luck as anything if it came out well. As you said, it did take some accommodation to the guitar playing, always trying to keep in mind what it might end up sounding like once taken down an octave. I avoided very much careless playing or any experimental tricks. I did find, in any case, that the elastique we have right in ReaPitch, either 2 or 3, was plenty fine in handling it. To be fussy, trying making two or more shifted-down copies, one with high formants, one with low and so on and then mix them. Those, I seem to recall, came out best, offering more final control and still sounding like one bass guitar.

Yes, it can be done -- not denying it. A freaking lot of work, though, if you need it sounding perfect or more than just passable. For a guitarist who doesn't feel comfortable on keys (yet ... you will in time), it can be a help or 'bridge'. After all, you do still get to do your music on actual strings, which I think is perhaps the biggest benefit of all for the guitarist trying to fake a real bass guitar in a recording.

[The Telenator]

Originally Posted by Bubble07

I would just start by playing the guitar flattened a few tones (like some shredders do) and then drop that an octave by changing the item properties and then processing the hell out of that by playing around with FX, Amp sims etc.

Sorry, just caught this post on re-reading posts.

THIS is the absolute worst beast to record in any studio no matter how good the studio and team. The down-tuned guitar. Detuned guitar strings are horrible and completely aggravating. Every studio pro hates them and the whole popular phenomena of this 'trend'. It needs to go away ... and fast.

[suleiman]

Originally Posted by vejichan

not interested in buying a bass guitar/no need for extra expenses and time wasted on buying bass strings/settings up bass. Also not making money with my music. Just want to make that clear because usually people will say buy a bass guitar

Does anybody know how to make the best of using on the plugins in reaper to simulate a bass guitar sound using my guitar? enough for scratch tracks?
also i have bass amps in amplitube 3 if that helps.

any helps or presets/settings is appreciated
thanks

Do this almost half the time ...

DI guitar with Mid or neck pickup....
Reapitch .... One ocatve with all wet / no dry...

Then the amp- cab-sim whatever that you like playing

Record a coupla bars .... Loop it and tweak the reapitch formant settings as well as your other amp fx settings and get it right with the drums for a workable version.
Save the rest of the work for mixing

[zeekat]

So instrument that everybody's using for decades with success is borderline unusable. So is downtuned guitar which every crappy underground metal band with no budget or even some kids with a computers can do right with no problems.

I mean, I don't know a thing and have nothing in common with music business aside of being a consumer. But those opinions above seem bizarre as hell, you'd think "studio pros" got those things right ages back.

Originally Posted by vejichan

But going on and on saying Oh just get a bass guitar=====> kinda like saying to all the people out there with ez drummer 2 and superior drummer... why don't you just buy a drum set?

Believe me, if drumkit was as small and relatively simple to operate as a bass guitar I'd already have one

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by The Telenator

Sorry, just caught this post on re-reading posts.

THIS is the absolute worst beast to record in any studio no matter how good the studio and team. The down-tuned guitar. Detuned guitar strings are horrible and completely aggravating. Every studio pro hates them and the whole popular phenomena of this 'trend'. It needs to go away ... and fast.

It is actually fine but with one HUGE proviso.
The guitar in question needs to have been properly set up and fitted with an appropriate gauge of string to do this even halfway decently. And of course it then becomes unsuitable for shredding for the most part!

My 27" scale baritone is fine anywhere between drop G (!) and drop C but with that scale length and a .70 bottom string it ought to be.
I would like to see anyone try and shred on it, though....
It might be as simple as buying a long scale guitar and heavier strings to deal with most of the nasty artifacts, but I would be thinking more of a 7 or 8 string tuned somewhere normal.
And as for fakebass, I already made my feelings known so I will shut up.

[msundh]

For me the MIDI/VST is the first option, if that doesn't work I do the cheap bass and if I cannot handle the thick bass string quick enough I go for the pithced down guitar.
It's the last option, but still an option.

When I write my global monster hit I will hire a baddass bass player

[Geoff-h3o]

but what I was suggesting was that OP uses his guitar to record his track,with an audio to midi converter vst on it so that he can then trigger bass from a sample player or vsti ; in this way he uses his preferred input device and gets the sound he wants out the other end, with the added bonus that any bum notes or new ideas can be deleted/inserted.

Simples, no?

[vejichan]

Any clear instructions how to exactly u do this .

[edkilp]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

I have done it in a pinch, but it isn't a pleasant experience. Picking up a bass (even a cheap one) is a much more enjoyable experience. And hell, some of us guitarists never change bass strings, because we aren't really bass players any way. And even with really old strings and zero maintenance, the timbre of a real bass sounds much better than a pitch-shifted guitar as a bass, and it is much easier to play as a bass.

I agree to an extent with this, but I also think it's very subjective. After listening to the song that msundh referred us to in post #2, I don't think he could have chosen a cooler bass sound to fit that song. I think it's great.
So yeah, for bass guitar in general, it might not be the most desirable approach, but you can't deny that it does have a pretty profound effect in different contexts.
And the Op just wants something that sounds decent enough to fill out the bottom end, so I think he'll be fine using the pitch-shift method.

[edkilp]

Originally Posted by msundh

When I write my global monster hit I will hire a baddass bass player

Noooooo! Not Unfrozen!! Record that sucker exactly like you did the first time! It's awesome dude!

[Geoff-h3o]

Download one of these vsts:
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/syno...nglabs/details (free);

http://www.widisoft.com/english/widi...-midi-vst.html (not free but free demo)

I haven'nt played with these for a while so don't be surprised if something isn't quite right with the following!

1. Record your guitar track as normal.
2. Create 2nd track with audio/midi vst fx and a bass vsti. Add audio receive from track 1.Record the output which will be midi. This can be recorded at the same time as the audio).
3.Open the midi item in the midi editor. Select all notes (control A) and drag them down an octave (or is it two?) Then the bass shuold sound.


Ah, I just noticed that Synodeia has a pitch shift built . I expect you could simply put both effects on the same track, with the pitch shift enabled; no need to edit.

Hope this helps.

[msundh]

Originally Posted by edkilp

Noooooo! Not Unfrozen!! Record that sucker exactly like you did the first time! It's awesome dude!

Thanks a lot!!

[Mordi]

Before I bought my bass guitar I would simply record my electric guitar playing the bass part, and then transpose it down twelve semitones using [Shift + 9]. Works well enough.

In this track I used this method: https://soundcloud.com/mordi-1/funky-surfer-tune-wip

That said, my bass guitar sounds way better.