Old 09-04-2014, 07:03 PM   #81
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No offence meant to chimpanzees.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:13 PM   #82
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As suggested earlier, I think more people will be apt totake a listen to a "link", rather than having to download the MP3's.

Perhaps try Soundcloud or such.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:25 PM   #83
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I went ahead and downloaded the first and third indicated mixes.

I need to think about my response.

Don't get me wrong, you have some musical talent, but I have never heard any mix so compressed, that it actually "hurt" to listen to it.

The vocals were peculiarly placed in the mix.

Many of the drum hits were out of time. I can see why someone previously mentioned getting "back to basics".

Is this just guitar and drums?

This may actually be a case of "trying to hard".
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:31 PM   #84
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I think more people will be apt totake a listen to a "link", rather than having to download the MP3's.
I always get the choice to save or open with Windows Media Player.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:47 PM   #85
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I appreciate the feedback.. but all i hear is that my mix is done by a chimp and my master job sucks.. however what im not hearing is any suggestions on what you guys would do to fix it.. i like a guitar driven sound.. IE killswitch engaged and 5 finger death punch most of those are hard driven by guitar mixes... so mastering aside.. my mix.. which is the first link.. whats wring and what suggestions do you have to improve it?
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:49 PM   #86
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I went ahead and downloaded the first and third indicated mixes.

I need to think about my response.

Don't get me wrong, you have some musical talent, but I have never heard any mix so compressed, that it actually "hurt" to listen to it.

The vocals were peculiarly placed in the mix.

Many of the drum hits were out of time. I can see why someone previously mentioned getting "back to basics".

Is this just guitar and drums?

This may actually be a case of "trying to hard".
oh i dont quantize or order my drums into perfect time.. it sounds unhuman... drummers are perfect so i believe chopping up their hits and placing them in perfect time is well robotic.. but that's my take on it... the industry standard is to put then in time
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:50 PM   #87
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More attention to guitar tones right from the start. You should be "most of the way there" without any mixing.

Attention to arrangement.

Attention to timing.

Vocals should be at least audible, in my opinion. (YMMV)
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:52 PM   #88
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oh i dont quantize or order my drums into perfect time.. it sounds unhuman... drummers are perfect so i believe chopping up their hits and placing them in perfect time is well robotic.. but that's my take on it... the industry standard is to put then in time
I understand human feel, but the drums in your track are out of time within themselves and the guitars.

If the whole thing were "grooving together", it might be a different story.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:53 PM   #89
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And then, there is the "art", of mixing.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:14 PM   #90
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More attention to guitar tones right from the start. You should be "most of the way there" without any mixing.

Attention to arrangement.

Attention to timing.

Vocals should be at least audible, in my opinion. (YMMV)
I love my guitar tones.. its not in perfect time Ill grant you that this i know cuz I recorded it that way.. the timing is not my issue.. the tone of my guitars are not my issue... which i understand are part mixing but the tones are how my guitar player like it and guitars players are very... uh... monroe about their tone.. that aside. my vocals need to come up is what youre saying or their are not clear enough?
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:17 PM   #91
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One thing that I'm curious about...

Could you please go into more detail of your recording setup? Mics used where and how, audio gear/interfaces, monitors used, etc... That would help get a better picture, for me at least.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:34 PM   #92
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One thing that I'm curious about...

Could you please go into more detail of your recording setup? Mics used where and how, audio gear/interfaces, monitors used, etc... That would help get a better picture, for me at least.
oh sure.. tascam us1800 interface. cad drum mics. behringer v amp pro guitar and bass interfaces mxl vocal mics.. not top of the line but they do ok... im not trying to win grammys... behringer monitors... using asio4all sound driver when the tascam isnt directly linked it allows for more resource without lag or chop... um what other info do you need? i will tell you everything if you need this is helpful
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:39 PM   #93
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As suggested earlier, I think more people will be apt totake a listen to a "link", rather than having to download the MP3's.

Perhaps try Soundcloud or such.
i thought about what you had said and downloaded the link from stash as well to play it back and i gotta tell you thats not what i uploaded.. im starting to actually get very frustrated... i used a wav to mp3 converter instaed of rendering in reaper to mp3 and eeeeee this does sound terrible.. its not what im hearing in my monitors... i went back and even dumped the destiny compressor so now all im using is the reaxcomp multiband the soft clipper and the limitor i still have some eq and slight ferric for tape valve warmth and widener on it for flavor but is that still to much compression?
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:44 PM   #94
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For a start, the kick drum sounds too prominent, like it's been removed from the rest of the kit and is being played by a different drummer. I found that distracting enough to skew my judgement of everything else. Whether the timing might work if the balance was right, I couldn't yet say.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:52 PM   #95
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oh sure.. tascam us1800 interface. cad drum mics. behringer v amp pro guitar and bass interfaces mxl vocal mics.. not top of the line but they do ok... im not trying to win grammys... behringer monitors... using asio4all sound driver when the tascam isnt directly linked it allows for more resource without lag or chop... um what other info do you need? i will tell you everything if you need this is helpful
OK, the Behringer monitors...are they powered with the internal "acoustics adjustment" switches on the back?
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:57 PM   #96
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OK, the Behringer monitors...are they powered with the internal "acoustics adjustment" switches on the back?
they are the Behringer Truth B3030A they dont have that "acoustics adjustment" they have a low freq, a room compensation, and a high freq and a trim all set to 0db
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:05 PM   #97
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they are the Behringer Truth B3030A they dont have that "acoustics adjustment" they have a low freq, a room compensation, and a high freq and a trim all set to 0db

Thought so... and that's what I meant, but put them in quotes like that because that's what they are meant to be.

I have a lot of experience with those monitors, and there is nothing "truth" about them. The closest you can get is to turn off ie. flatten all of those controls (which you have). Then spend about a day making sure they are properly placed in the space. That's as close as you can get with them, but they "lie" to your ears by design.


Now, you said a bit ago that you "dumped" some of the "mastering chain" stuff. You need to get rid of all of that, send your tracks to the master bus, and spend time with each track one by one and get them right. If a track doesn't sound good flat, then the recording is bad...redo it. Then start putting those together into a clean mix. When you have that right, give it to someone else with more experience to master it...that's my "nutshell" version.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:07 PM   #98
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I'll weigh in on this without reading through three pages of comments and at the risk of repeating some things.

In order of how I hear it after a couple of listens:

The guitar intro is a little muddy, lacking in some high end. The other guitar is better, but it relegates the first to the background.

When the drums kick in, they are LOUD, especially the snare, but don't sound very full or punchy. There's so much high end on them that they make the guitar sound like it's way further back in the mix. The kick drum is clicky, giving it the notorious metal "typewriter" sound, without much body. The bass guitar is practically inaudible at low volumes.

When the vocals come in, they are kind of dark too, lacking in high end energy, and the snare still sounds louder than everything else. The chorus kicks in, and when everything should go up a notch, it still sounds more or less the same.

Here's what I would do right off the bat:
1) boost the high end on that first guitar, especially during the intro and other moments where it's the only sound
2) find a sweet spot in the frequency where each guitar sounds best, and cut a little notch in the other guitar to give them both some room to do their thing
3) back off on the drum compression, and boost some low end on the kick and toms
4) add some reverb to that snare so it's not so dry and harsh
5) push the clean vocals up so they're just louder than the snare and add some high end and some reverb
6) exaggerate the difference between the cleans and the harsh vocals. add some subtle saturation to the harsh vox and compress them more than the cleans. the cleans should soar and be dynamic so the harsh vocals hit harder and really have an impact
7) squeeze the bass guitar a little more! I can almost it hear it wanting to poke through but it's got a lot to compete with. High pass everything that isn't bass guitar or kick drum. Don't forget about the bass, the most neglected instrument in metal!
8) give the vocals, guitars, and snare a tiny boost during the chorus, and back it off again for the verse, so that you can feel the difference without quite noticing
9) compress the master bus to where it sounds awesome and then back off a couple of db. don't overthink the master bus.

Of course, all of this should be done subtly. I think the song is good and you're most of the way there. At this point it's a lot of little things that you can do that will add up in the end.

Please take this as constructive criticism and don't worry about the silly nature of the forum. Swamp Ape says there's nothing wrong with the mixing talents of chimpanzees.

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Old 09-04-2014, 09:13 PM   #99
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By the way...

The bit/sample rates and whether .wav or .mp3 does not make as much difference as you seem to want it to. The problem is the recording and mixing. Nothing more.

But as I said, it sound just as inexperience and a lack of practical knowledge...simplify your process and don't try so hard to be a "pro", but just get it sounding balanced and clean.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:25 PM   #100
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Thought so... and that's what I meant, but put them in quotes like that because that's what they are meant to be.

I have a lot of experience with those monitors, and there is nothing "truth" about them. The closest you can get is to turn off ie. flatten all of those controls (which you have). Then spend about a day making sure they are properly placed in the space. That's as close as you can get with them, but they "lie" to your ears by design.


Now, you said a bit ago that you "dumped" some of the "mastering chain" stuff. You need to get rid of all of that, send your tracks to the master bus, and spend time with each track one by one and get them right. If a track doesn't sound good flat, then the recording is bad...redo it. Then start putting those together into a clean mix. When you have that right, give it to someone else with more experience to master it...that's my "nutshell" version.
totally get that.. BUT.. im trying to learn to do all this myself.. there is no reason why i cant and shouldnt be able to do this... i believe in my abilities and my talent... that not with standing previous critiques.. my mix to me is good.. levels are where i want them.. granted ive come to learn that the vocals sound good placed to my ears but its cuz i know what they are saying and when you know the lyrics you hear them pop out at you.. its a brain trick so after playing my masters back i can say hey they do need ot come up.. now for my preferences the drums by themselves are balanced and the tomes to my preference.. its just me as far as the tones.. with nothing else i the mix i like them.. the bass by itself good.. guitars etc but we all no by themselves doesn;t make the mix thats why its a mix.. and my mix pre master to me and my band is good... they are happy with tones and yes the timing in not in perfect quantize but its te attitude that makes it. not the perfect time.. ive been criticized in the pasat for using electronic drums cuz i put them in perfect time and that urks me... i have a hard time believing my mix is shit... its just hard to believe that it isn't good enough... levels and all are where my ears are telling me they should be.. now i could condense all that chain down but if you can see how im using them... high pass at 40 then a little saturation to give it color (that's not compression right? just a little tape warmth)next a high shelf to bring out the hats and cymbals.. granted i coulve done this with the first eq but keeping it seperate helps keep me organized. i popped in the maxx bass very low to color the kick and bass guitar just a smidge.. i could get rid of it its just a slight low coloration..i got rid of the destiny compressor used the imager to widen the guitars just a bit moremake the mix a little more roomy... again i couldve done this pre mix but the more stuff you have on a 30 channel song the more cpu one will use. the only thing im using the cs112m for is the final eq spread no compression or limiting whatso ever.. then the multiband then the clipper ot boost 3db but still no clipping and nothing near 0db in my master chain and finally the limiter with a thresh of 2-3 db ceiling of -0.01 i could dump down to one eq the multiband clipper then limiter but im still doing just that.. just in seperate stages... so im not sure maybe my thresholds on the multiband are too much??? maybe my ears are missing something that plug in isnt... i could screen shot it but i doubt that would help considering thats just one shot in time
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:37 PM   #101
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I'll weigh in on this without reading through three pages of comments and at the risk of repeating some things.

In order of how I hear it after a couple of listens:

The guitar intro is a little muddy, lacking in some high end. The other guitar is better, but it relegates the first to the background.

When the drums kick in, they are LOUD, especially the snare, but don't sound very full or punchy. There's so much high end on them that they make the guitar sound like it's way further back in the mix. The kick drum is clicky, giving it the notorious metal "typewriter" sound, without much body. The bass guitar is practically inaudible at low volumes.

When the vocals come in, they are kind of dark too, lacking in high end energy, and the snare still sounds louder than everything else. The chorus kicks in, and when everything should go up a notch, it still sounds more or less the same.

Here's what I would do right off the bat:
1) boost the high end on that first guitar, especially during the intro and other moments where it's the only sound
2) find a sweet spot in the frequency where each guitar sounds best, and cut a little notch in the other guitar to give them both some room to do their thing
3) back off on the drum compression, and boost some low end on the kick and toms
4) add some reverb to that snare so it's not so dry and harsh
5) push the clean vocals up so they're just louder than the snare and add some high end and some reverb
6) exaggerate the difference between the cleans and the harsh vocals. add some subtle saturation to the harsh vox and compress them more than the cleans. the cleans should soar and be dynamic so the harsh vocals hit harder and really have an impact
7) squeeze the bass guitar a little more! I can almost it hear it wanting to poke through but it's got a lot to compete with. High pass everything that isn't bass guitar or kick drum. Don't forget about the bass, the most neglected instrument in metal!
8) give the vocals, guitars, and snare a tiny boost during the chorus, and back it off again for the verse, so that you can feel the difference without quite noticing
9) compress the master bus to where it sounds awesome and then back off a couple of db. don't overthink the master bus.

Of course, all of this should be done subtly. I think the song is good and you're most of the way there. At this point it's a lot of little things that you can do that will add up in the end.

Please take this as constructive criticism and don't worry about the silly nature of the forum. Swamp Ape says there's nothing wrong with the mixing talents of chimpanzees.
THAT BY FAR IS THE BEST ADVICE IVE GOTTEN ONTHIS ENTIRE THREAD!!!! THANK YOU.. with no offense to anyone who helped me with my rendering issue.. i promise im not lying about that.. it does sound different from pre render and afterwards when i burn it or convert it.. i can't explain it but its there i hear it.. there is huge differnce between the mix with my master chain and after when i render it burn it or dump it to my ipod.. they do not sound the same at all its one thing to tell that its shit its another ot provide a reason and a detailed direction... most helpful.. can you please elaborate on the squeezinf bass??? no idea what that means...i have a little verb on the snare i had more but it was sounding a bit too 80s for my taste and i have dedlay on my vocals i dont really like using verb on them it gives them an echo i just dont like but i can try it... i dont have any compression on my master track pre mix... just a spectral to see the peaks and the limiter at -0.01 with no thresh to keep it form going over 0 but the rest i can do... that sounds simple and direct enough.. again thanks

Last edited by headcase915; 09-04-2014 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:42 PM   #102
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http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/

one good tool for checking the loudness of your masters, at least you are not as loud as Metallica's Death Magnetic

I did notice from this that phase correlation meter was not in positive very much and pushing into the negative a fair way
this indicates your L&R sides are out of phase, sounds wide in stereo but causes many problems on badly set up playback systems and a general loss of power on many playback systems.

it sounds like the cymbals and the guitars are out and this was confirmed by their huge reduction when I hit the mono button. I did this with the mix not the masters but the mastered versions sound even more phasey as the guitars get pushed louder with this much master compression.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:46 PM   #103
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http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/

one good tool for checking the loudness of your masters, at least you are not as loud as Metallica's Death Magnetic

I did notice from this that phase correlation meter was not in positive very much and pushing into the negative a fair way
this indicates your L&R sides are out of phase, sounds wide in stereo but causes many problems on badly set up playback systems and a general loss of power on many playback systems.

it sounds like the cymbals and the guitars are out and this was confirmed by their huge reduction when I hit the mono button. I did this with the mix not the masters but the mastered versions sound even more phasey as the guitars get pushed louder with this much master compression.
Awesome thank you.. so do i need ot bring in the panning? i have them at 95 each..what can i do to get them into phase?
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:50 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Sonic Vampire View Post
http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/

one good tool for checking the loudness of your masters, at least you are not as loud as Metallica's Death Magnetic

I did notice from this that phase correlation meter was not in positive very much and pushing into the negative a fair way
this indicates your L&R sides are out of phase, sounds wide in stereo but causes many problems on badly set up playback systems and a general loss of power on many playback systems.

it sounds like the cymbals and the guitars are out and this was confirmed by their huge reduction when I hit the mono button. I did this with the mix not the masters but the mastered versions sound even more phasey as the guitars get pushed louder with this much master compression.
ive been trying to get this range meter from that very site but i seem to not know how to get it...can you direct me on what im doing or not doing to download that metter? and well how it works
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:54 PM   #105
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long time ago that I got it but you had to register first.

there are other phase correlation meters out there if this is what you need most
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:59 PM   #106
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Awesome thank you.. so do i need ot bring in the panning? i have them at 95 each..what can i do to get them into phase?
mono your mix and try one side of the guitars in and out of phase (polarity)
whichever way has most bottom end should be the right one. also do same with OHs just make sure.

LF has the most energy so you need to make sure this is good, it could be little more HPF would reduce issues

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Old 09-04-2014, 10:00 PM   #107
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long time ago that I got it but you had to register first.

there are other phase correlation meters out there if this is what you need most
ok great.. but what would you suggest to get my guitars back into phase? is it my widener? or the tones im using or my impulses?
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:13 PM   #108
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mono your mix and try one side of the guitars in and out of phase (polarity)
whichever way has most bottom end should be the right one. also do same with OHs just make sure.
that is 1 way to check the phase and which ever is best you leave the phase button in that state.

but you just stated you use a widener SO, there is 1 big potential problem
wideners work by injecting some out of phase component. they should be used with great caution, I personally rarely use them for this reason

http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php. Phase Bug can be used to alter the phase relationship between two sounds.

are you using the same impulse on both sides, if so this should not cause an issue but different processing on the different sides may make it worse.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:35 PM   #109
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long time ago that I got it but you had to register first.
I just clicked it and it took me to a login page. So I hit BACK and clicked again and this time it came up for me to save.

Worth a shot...
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:07 PM   #110
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I just clicked it and it took me to a login page. So I hit BACK and clicked again and this time it came up for me to save.

Worth a shot...
did you get the foo dynamic range?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:42 PM   #111
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I haven't listened but I'll share that wideners can cause trouble. I use the js widner and crank it till I love it then back it off a fair amount. Also try loser saturation on the guitars. For me its worked great on rhythm guitars.
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:41 AM   #112
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One mistake that I made early on was not panning the drum overheads hard left and hard right. Anything less creates phase issues, so I'll throw that out there. A really solid tip that I wish I had understood earlier is how important it is to constantly check against the mono mix. If it doesn't sound good mono, then it doesn't sound good in stereo, even if you don't realize it yet.

When I drop the mix into mono the rhythm guitars and cymbals disappear. This tells me that there is a phase issue going on... either a plugin or some kind of interaction via mic bleed. I don't have the mix in front of me to check, but I would start by disabling all stereo wideners in your project, then see if Sonic Vampire's advice does anything for you.

Quote:
with nothing else i the mix i like them.. the bass by itself good.. guitars etc but we all no by themselves doesn;t make the mix thats why its a mix.. and my mix pre master to me and my band is good... they are happy with tones
I can still remember the time, years ago, when the singer and I were unveiling a demo mix for the first time to the rest of the band members. The other guitarist sounded good... but then to make a point I solo'd his instrument. Turns out that what worked in the mix (high-passing it to 500 Hz!) sounded rather breezy and gutless outside of it. But click it back in, and it went back to that fiery, solid chugging monster it was before.

To tie the two together, something you might want to consider trying is narrowing your stereo field for your bass frequencies. TP Basslane is a simple plugin for that. Most mastering plugins should have something similar, but in the spirit of keeping it simple - http://www.toneprojects.com/products/plug-ins/basslane/.

After a few minutes of playing around with it I'm willing to venture that you haven't high-passed your guitars. My ears are telling me that a 250-300 hz highpass might really help you get some of that solid kick and definition back.

*a few seconds later*

Add the basic mix to a blank channel. Put TP Basslane in that channel FX at default settings (300 Hz). Put the Master into Mono. Now compare how it sounds when Basslane is on vs off as the music plays.

Last edited by SaulT; 09-05-2014 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:43 AM   #113
whiteaxxxe
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oh i dont quantize or order my drums into perfect time.. it sounds unhuman... drummers are perfect so i believe chopping up their hits and placing them in perfect time is well robotic.. but that's my take on it... the industry standard is to put then in time
and here we have a big problem outside of making music.

who cares what industry standard is, and who cares about something like "inhumanity" what was read elsewhere??

tell you what: a wrong played note is a wrong played note and a misplaced drum hit is a misplaced drum hit.

everything you tell is, that you have a theory and use this theory to justify what you do. where from do you know what industry standard is? from Gearslutz? obviously you never worked in the industry.

and you come along with arguments outside of your music. if it fits, Killswitch Engage is an argument for anything, the industry is an argument, humanity in drums is an argument. you know, these doesnt fit to the problem.

your music is what it is all about. doesnt matter what you think is standard. Killswitch never would let a misplaced and not in time playing drums go through. there is no need for argueing about that. because it doesnt matter.

you should ask yourself one question: does anything you believe in whats right or wrong have any benefit for your music? if not, ditch it, forget about it, move on in doing it the right way.

and thats not what you do, you dont do it the right way, you want to do it by the book. (what book? should be an interesting question to answer ...)

simple as that: doesnt matter what anybody tells you - me included - it matters, that you do it right. so get lost of the arguments industry and Killswitch and "a pro has said" and such a like.

your mixes suck and your masters suck and in the arrangement and in playing are major mistakes. fix it! now! :-))) (citation taken from Batman ... :-))

they way you think and act in this whole process doesnt do you and/or the music any good. thats the point.

edit: placing drum hits in time isnt industry standard, its musical standard. therefor the industry is right. even you tune your guitars. avoid that, because its industry standard? sorry, that industry standard argument is always a very dumb and dull argument on either sides.

Last edited by whiteaxxxe; 09-05-2014 at 03:50 AM. Reason: seconds later ...
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Old 09-05-2014, 04:01 AM   #114
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Post u r mix and master here.. lets see what should be done...
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Old 09-05-2014, 04:28 AM   #115
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Post u r mix and master here.. lets see what should be done...
Your music collection, and mine, and whiteaxxxe's, and headcase915's, are full of examples of what "should" be done.
Only headcase915 controls the material in question, and he has now posted his mix and master.

Did you mean to suggest that people should not be alllowed to criticize, though invited to do so, until they have proven their worth?
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:38 AM   #116
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Post u r mix and master here.. lets see what should be done...
first off I didnt ask for any help with my mixes and masterings. if I had issues, I would do so. but I have no issues. what doesnt mean, that I am perfect. but I have no issues. if it doesnt sound right, I think of what maybe is wrong. and then I adjust the things considered wrong. simple, I think.

so I dont see where this thread here has anything to do with proving anything. no one (<- see, I learned :-))) here has to post some mixes before giving opinion or help or advise.

second I dont think that posting some of ones own work is helpful, except that the one who posts music in a thread of other people seems to be a little bit like "well, son, let me show you how it is done. I cant explain the problem, but I want to be important and thats a good cause to show this off."

that I dont really like. I did it it one thread here when I felt I had to deliver an example of what I meant. it was in a programming drums thread. but I dont think that that posting led to anything. so ...

but I understand that one wants to know with whom he is dealing in here. there are some ways to find out, for example there is Google. I dont tend to be anonymous in forums, so you can assume that you will find lots of material of me.

to spare you that work :-)))) have a look at mp3-netlabel.de, its my site. in case you think of the partly shortened demo-clips on there you want anything as a complete album, I will give you free access to the complete albums.

für die deutschsprachigen hier ein zitat von Marcel Reich-Ranicki: "man muss sich nicht mit dem nackten hintern in eine pfanne voll mit heissem fett setzen um darüber schreiben zu dürfen, wie man ein schnitzel brät." :-))

I find that citation always very helpful ... so, Kawin, I hope I answered your implicated question ...
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:50 AM   #117
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Your music collection, and mine, and whiteaxxxe's, and headcase915's, are full of examples of what "should" be done.
Only headcase915 controls the material in question, and he has now posted his mix and master.

Did you mean to suggest that people should not be alllowed to criticize, though invited to do so, until they have proven their worth?
well ... some people dont like it when someone tells them that there is something wrong, though they have recognised it themselves. but anyway ...

what I dont get: if someone wants to achieve that Killswitch Engage sound (from here on I will write only KE, for its too much of typing ...) they most simple methos is to flick on an KE album, listen to his own mixes and the KE album and find out where the hell is the difference. its called referencing. there is a reason why I listen to music on exactly the same monitoring system that I do my mixes on. and if you reference, most of the differences between KE and headcase a5re so obvious ... but no, there is bragging about programming/playing drums out of time because he is a rebel against the "industry" and so on ... seems to me as a more religious thing than wanting to get rid of the problems in the real world.

it took three pages for him to get nearer to the point to admit that his mixes and his mastering is not ok. I dont think that is the right way to ask for help, assuming its anybodys or any equipments fault but not his.

but its so easy to blame Reaper (Cubase, Pro Tools, whatever ...), the pres, the DAC, the plugins, whatever than to consider having done something really the wrong way.

problem is: that solves not a single issue. so I call this a serious lack of wanting to learn. and learning is all we do, although we call it "making music". :-))))
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:38 AM   #118
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and here we have a big problem outside of making music.

who cares what industry standard is, and who cares about something like "inhumanity" what was read elsewhere??

tell you what: a wrong played note is a wrong played note and a misplaced drum hit is a misplaced drum hit.

everything you tell is, that you have a theory and use this theory to justify what you do. where from do you know what industry standard is? from Gearslutz? obviously you never worked in the industry.

and you come along with arguments outside of your music. if it fits, Killswitch Engage is an argument for anything, the industry is an argument, humanity in drums is an argument. you know, these doesnt fit to the problem.

your music is what it is all about. doesnt matter what you think is standard. Killswitch never would let a misplaced and not in time playing drums go through. there is no need for argueing about that. because it doesnt matter.

you should ask yourself one question: does anything you believe in whats right or wrong have any benefit for your music? if not, ditch it, forget about it, move on in doing it the right way.

and thats not what you do, you dont do it the right way, you want to do it by the book. (what book? should be an interesting question to answer ...)

simple as that: doesnt matter what anybody tells you - me included - it matters, that you do it right. so get lost of the arguments industry and Killswitch and "a pro has said" and such a like.

your mixes suck and your masters suck and in the arrangement and in playing are major mistakes. fix it! now! :-))) (citation taken from Batman ... :-))

they way you think and act in this whole process doesnt do you and/or the music any good. thats the point.

edit: placing drum hits in time isnt industry standard, its musical standard. therefor the industry is right. even you tune your guitars. avoid that, because its industry standard? sorry, that industry standard argument is always a very dumb and dull argument on either sides.
While I appreciate all the help im being given... from everyone including you... remember one thing.. you weren't so hot shit once yourself.. so do me a favor be a little more cordial and empathetic and realize that you too had to learn this cuz you weren't born knowing how to do any of it... or you can get off my thread... cuz there are others on here who are actually trying to help me with a little less attitude and are so quick to shit on my attempts... THANK YOU.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:40 AM   #119
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One mistake that I made early on was not panning the drum overheads hard left and hard right. Anything less creates phase issues, so I'll throw that out there. A really solid tip that I wish I had understood earlier is how important it is to constantly check against the mono mix. If it doesn't sound good mono, then it doesn't sound good in stereo, even if you don't realize it yet.

When I drop the mix into mono the rhythm guitars and cymbals disappear. This tells me that there is a phase issue going on... either a plugin or some kind of interaction via mic bleed. I don't have the mix in front of me to check, but I would start by disabling all stereo wideners in your project, then see if Sonic Vampire's advice does anything for you.



I can still remember the time, years ago, when the singer and I were unveiling a demo mix for the first time to the rest of the band members. The other guitarist sounded good... but then to make a point I solo'd his instrument. Turns out that what worked in the mix (high-passing it to 500 Hz!) sounded rather breezy and gutless outside of it. But click it back in, and it went back to that fiery, solid chugging monster it was before.

To tie the two together, something you might want to consider trying is narrowing your stereo field for your bass frequencies. TP Basslane is a simple plugin for that. Most mastering plugins should have something similar, but in the spirit of keeping it simple - http://www.toneprojects.com/products/plug-ins/basslane/.

After a few minutes of playing around with it I'm willing to venture that you haven't high-passed your guitars. My ears are telling me that a 250-300 hz highpass might really help you get some of that solid kick and definition back.

*a few seconds later*

Add the basic mix to a blank channel. Put TP Basslane in that channel FX at default settings (300 Hz). Put the Master into Mono. Now compare how it sounds when Basslane is on vs off as the music plays.
THANK YOU.. VERY GOOD STUFF..
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:42 AM   #120
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[QUOTE=Kawin;1400841]Post u r mix and master here.. lets see what should be done... [/QUi did posted the stash links
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