Old 08-30-2014, 01:23 PM   #41
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,817
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Err... for guitar it's actually better to record hotter because it reduces S/N ratio if you calibrate the track input so that it's short of clipping when you're really hitting hard on all 6 strings at once. That's plenty of headroom as far as playing dynamics are concerned, plus most ampsims will expect that kind of signal (and you wouldn't need to deteriorate S/N ratio by tweaking the input level knob on your ampsim - we all know that the worse S/N ratio is, the more noise you get, which translates to EVEN MORE noise when using tones with lots of gain).
It isn't better, hitting hard isn't RMS and why I bolded it. The number is to do with the hardware, the SIM should account for that. You already have optimal SNR because that is zero db coming in through the hardware. Check your hardware manuals guys.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 01:27 PM   #42
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
Like I said, there's no discernible difference between a) guitar -> h/w mixer -> line input of interface A, and b) guitar -> instrument input of interface B. Interface B is 16 bit btw.

What is the difference between a DI box and a regular guitar pedal or "multi fx" pedal? Aside from the obvious things. Both should be capable of turning a guitar signal into something a line level input can work with or am I wrong?
Line level and instrument level are different animals. The DI box 'translates' instrument level to line level. The pedals are in fact instrument level. And especially with guitar, it has a lot to do with the correct impedance. This is where the cheaper interfaces fall short with their built-in instrument DI.

My sense is to try a better DI connection for the guitar.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 01:27 PM   #43
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It certainly applies to those poor converters you are trashing on the way in. That number exists due to the ~18 db discrepancy between the outside and inside the box world. AKA -18 db is close to +20 outside the box and near the max most converters/pres can reliably handle. Check the specs on your card, it should be listed in the manual since for some its a dB or so higher/lower.

Anyone writing a SIM should be well aware of and adjust for that, going in higher might sound OK if going into the real thing at +18 sounds good.
Record a guitar, near clipping, and at a 'safe' level. See what happens. Shouldn't take you more than a couple of minutes.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 01:29 PM   #44
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,817
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Record a guitar, near clipping, and at a 'safe' level. See what happens. Shouldn't take you more than a couple of minutes.
Done it before and learned better from that. It's wrong, if you like that's cool but its trashing the inputs.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 01:31 PM   #45
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Done it before and learned better from that. It's wrong, if you like that's cool but its trashing the inputs.
Post it.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 01:45 PM   #46
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,817
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Post it.
Maybe people don't understand the RMS part? Set to -18 db RMS and see where peaks go.

Last edited by karbomusic; 08-30-2014 at 03:05 PM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 01:55 PM   #47
Reno.thestraws
Human being with feelings
 
Reno.thestraws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Err... for guitar it's actually better to record hotter because it reduces S/N ratio if you calibrate the track input so that it's just short of clipping when you're really hitting hard on all 6 strings at once. That's plenty of headroom as far as playing dynamics are concerned, plus most ampsims will expect that kind of signal (and you wouldn't need to deteriorate S/N ratio by increasing the input level knob on your ampsim to drive it the way it's supposed to drive the signal - we all know that the worse S/N ratio is, the more noise you get, which translates to EVEN MORE noise when using tones with lots of gain).
Nope. In 24bit you have 144 db of dynamic range that means rhe twice you need to record the best guitar pick up of the world...

What is the average snr of an average guitar before amp? 50 dbV? At max

So you REALLY don't need to record that hot.

If you're recording with peak at -1 dbfs you bring up the noise of the guitar pick up.

In 24 bit, there's NO real life situation where you need to exceed -6 dbfs peak while recording.

Even if you have a SUPER hIGh crest factor signal you have enough dynamic to record.


Simple example

A piccolo snare hit by a super heavy hitter drummer:

What's the noise floor of the room you're recording in? Super mega professional studio with super expensive acoustic treatment is 25 dbSPL

What is peak level of the hit?

115 dbSPL? (it's VErY loud)

So with 90 db of dynamic range you've got enough room

In 16 bit, you only have 96, so, you'll need to lick the 0dbfs

In 24 bit, you have 144. So even if you leave a digital headroom of -12 dbfs, you bring your noise at -112 dbfs...
Reno.thestraws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 02:12 PM   #48
Reno.thestraws
Human being with feelings
 
Reno.thestraws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Record a guitar, near clipping, and at a 'safe' level. See what happens. Shouldn't take you more than a couple of minutes.
Create a track in reaper, choose your guitar input of your audio interface as iput for the track. DON'T plug anything in the guitar input.

Now Recprd that blank singanl during 5 seconds

Normalize your item

Watch the item volume knob and see how many db it add

+80 db?

You get the Maximum SNR you can really rec with your interface.

24 bit = 144 db
Your box permits only 80

Do the maths
Reno.thestraws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:15 PM   #49
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,817
Default

Quote:
The DI box 'translates' instrument level to line level.
Fun thread. An active one may if it also amplifies to line level but the primary purpose is to convert a typically high impedance signal to a low impedance usually balanced signal and... It also makes passive guitar electronics happy because they are usually pretty high impedance wise since it needs to see an impedance 10-100 times higher than its own impedance. That's a typical rule of thumb for source > destination impedances in general btw as to not "load down". You don't have to do that though, for example, you may want the guitar to be darker but many don't want to lose much of what came out of the instrument and will target 500k-2M as the impedance they plug into given the choice.

I'm going to design myself a new buffer that has impedance settings with a rotary switch so I can select the impedance to taste just like fancy mic pre's. It will be my primary recording DI for my electrics. It's a really simple circuit so more time will be spent on the rotary switching than the actual circuit hehe.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:20 PM   #50
Giano
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
unqualified Behringer bashing time???
Yep, give me some Behringer and I ll show you my garbage can
Giano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:32 PM   #51
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

Sorry I didn't listen to the sample cerendir....

Thanks to Reno, Serr and Karbo for nicely explaining the importance of impedance.

Of course there are other factors, and in my 10 years or so with ampsim experience the ampsim and IR are crucial.

As I said before, sorry about not listening, and I don't know exactly what your after, but the ampsims you have listed are all quite similar and not satisfying to me. Le Pou is the only one I use much at all.

The ampsims I find much more interesting are:

'Juicy 77' aka 'High Gain' http://www.bteaudio.com/software/Juicy77/Juicy77.html

'Studio Devil' aka 'British Valve Custom' http://www.studiodevil.com/products/...stom/index.php

Voxengo Boogex http://www.voxengo.com/product/boogex/

Also I have just tried out 'Ace' the new fender champ ampsim from Shattered Glass, and this is also very very good. http://www.shatteredglassaudio.com/product.php?id=103

Only BVC of those listed do NOT have built in IR's, and the quality of the IR in Ace alone will make you realise how important good IR is. You would have to search for a long time to find a better one for that particular amp.

The IRs in Boogex are mainly the old beamsonic impulses.

Redwirez are very good, and worth the money.

God's cab is an excellent collection of Mesa impulses.

Hope that helps, and good luck in your quest for tone, it's a righteous cause!!
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:44 PM   #52
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,817
Default

Quote:
Of course there are other factors, and in my 10 years or so with ampsim experience the ampsim and IR are crucial.
Just to drive home just how crucial they are... I took Reaper and a SIM and ran it through my scopes exactly the way I would do when testing and tuning a fuzz or tube screamer circuit. I kept the IR disabled as to not muddy the result (the pedals when I test don't have that, I just want to see the distortion component).

The waveform and harmonics were IDENTICAL to what my pedals produced. I mean a fuzz is a square wave that produces infinite odd harmonics assuming it's tweaked that way. A tube screamer has a bit of a shark fin rounded look, and other tubey waveforms have rounded edges as well. Point being it was very easy to tell how simple it was to precisely create just the right distortion to the waveform.

Turn on the IR, and everything changed massively in comparison. So the IR is the difference by far, and chances are, with a good IR you could plug a tube screamer or fuzz directly into your computer and throw the IR on and it would sound great. hmm.... heads to laboratory...
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:59 PM   #53
The Telenator
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oud West, NL
Posts: 2,335
Default

I didn't listen to the sample either, but what karbomusic and others said applies.

You CAN get it straightened out and you CAN get an acceptable sound, even a great one.

Amp sim plugin quality varies greatly AND some are much more fiddly about getting at their sweet spots. Simple as that.

And your signal chain MUST be right. Not that expensive anymore, but you need a good interface to get 'in there' properly. Many sim plugins behave much like amps -- you change one knob, it affects other knobs.

Be SURE to start saving your settings as presets as you start getting better and better sounds. That will save you loads of time and trouble!
The Telenator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 04:19 PM   #54
RoboPlankton
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: my space
Posts: 921
Default

I got to thinking that the following might be of some use....

There are two recordings of mine here at my account:

https://app.box.com/s/tvxqkga3qsfsu7uhi2yq

My guitar has a somewhat weird tone, I'm planning to change the pups soon, but anyway.....

The original recording was me just messin' about with amp sims etc, and I recorded four guitar takes and superimposed them all. They all have the same tone. I used the Mercuriall Tomato pre-amp and nothing else other than a tad of verb and very mild delay (until the end of one take).

I just loaded that file into REAPER and added the Emissary amp, clean channel, all the relevant knobs set to the middle.

I go into the PC mic socket using this neat pre-amp by Don Tillman:

http://www.till.com/articles/GuitarPreamp

The FET he uses is getting rarer, but you'll still find it on the web quickly enough. It's an easy build, I didn't use a circuit board but just soldered the components together 'up in the air'.


So, although the recordings I've linked to will not set the world ablaze, they show that I can get a workable tone for almost no money at all .

Edit:

I have an old Creative Audigy sound card and the Asio4All driver. I set the buffer at 256 usually, but have gone lower. This is all on XP Pro.
__________________
You never know what's coming

Last edited by RoboPlankton; 08-30-2014 at 05:22 PM.
RoboPlankton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:04 PM   #55
hamish
Human being with feelings
 
hamish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
Default

I sense a bit of skepticism about what Karobo et alia have said about impedence matching, and also with what Reno said about levels I think it would be quite easy for someone to get confused.

So I'd like to stress that the impedence matching and level are quite different issues, if I'm wrong please correct me...

Imagine recording the same guitar into the budget gear, with and without impedence matching DI box or pedal. Record as close to the same level as possible, then check RMS or LUFS on both, and gain adjust to loudness match.

You should find (correct me if I'm wrong ) that the impedence matched recording would have higer peak. It should have sharper transients. It will sound better through your ampsim.

If your input impedence is too low it 'loads' the pickup, and damps it's response (my poorly educated explanation)
hamish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:43 PM   #56
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 8,522
Default

Only recently ive again experimented with all itb gtr fx, leaving out analogue stomp pedals.

The link is a section from my new record [sans vox] [wip] and uses Kuassa for RGs, Gtr Rig 5 for leads.

Main lead kicks in at 0.35 with sharper eq to distinguish from earlier ld parts

Im not making any claims one way or another, it seems acceptable to me even though I don't dispute keen ears can hear some fizz, rigidity or whatever.

I might post this on other ampsim thread as well as some have asked my opinion a couple weeks back on another thread. [yo Tod]

[example is not mixed/mastered + some clipping]

Edit] and yes Randy Rhoads is major influence

https://app.box.com/s/ay2sbv5e3va1ek56c19q

Last edited by morgon; 08-30-2014 at 07:35 PM.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 08:18 PM   #57
Pickasso
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
If anyone here has a nice hard rock/metal type of FX chain using only freeware plugs and IR's, it would be great if you could share it. Just for the sake of determining what the weak link in my setup is.
Emissary setup
About as basic as it gets, add a Diezel impulse, consider adding some post eq to reduce fizz and digital harshness.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Emissary Test 1.zip (5.9 KB, 51 views)
Pickasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 08:54 PM   #58
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

RMS test. No one wants to prove it? La-z-ee! I have to do everything...

Here is an A/B test. One di signal was recorded at -18 RMS, the other at -9 RMS (Reaper's master meters set to RMS only). First you'll hear the processed takes through a sim, then the raw di takes. Do you hear any major anomalies (other than my playing)? Which is which?
https://app.box.com/s/qkq40ugs1qis901oxmvk

If you want to check the reaper project after listening, I'll send you the link.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.

Last edited by brainwreck; 08-30-2014 at 09:00 PM.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 09:31 PM   #59
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 8,522
Default

To me the first one [sim] sounds good, way better than the rest imo that seem to need mid/high boost, the playing is fine.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 09:35 PM   #60
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgon View Post
To me the first one [sim] sounds good, way better than the rest imo that seem to need mid/high boost, the playing is fine.
I should probably mention that I used a strat with the neck pickup. Also, the strings don't exactly give me that fresh feeling anymore.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 09:51 PM   #61
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 8,522
Default

The first one struck me right off the bat as record worthy. I can hear everything played, sounds good and no reason to second guess it imo, its a very listenable sound, im sure others will agree.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 10:45 PM   #62
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgon View Post
The first one struck me right off the bat as record worthy. I can hear everything played, sounds good and no reason to second guess it imo, its a very listenable sound, im sure others will agree.
Interesting. I hear a slight difference, but nothing that really stands out.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:07 AM   #63
Reno.thestraws
Human being with feelings
 
Reno.thestraws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
RMS test. No one wants to prove it? La-z-ee! I have to do everything...

Here is an A/B test. One di signal was recorded at -18 RMS, the other at -9 RMS (Reaper's master meters set to RMS only). First you'll hear the processed takes through a sim, then the raw di takes. Do you hear any major anomalies (other than my playing)? Which is which?
https://app.box.com/s/qkq40ugs1qis901oxmvk

If you want to check the reaper project after listening, I'll send you the link.

What is the alignement of your ADC?

-18dbfs is a standard but may change depending on the model of the ADC

as an exemple, a fireface UFX set at +4dbu is aligned at 0VU = -9dbfs

A motu 823 is aligned at 0VU = -18dbfs.

That means that if you plug your guitar in a preamp with a built in VU meter and turn the knob until you're reaching 0VU on the preamp meter and then record the line out on the preamp :

1- in a RME fireface UCX
2- in a Motu 823

you'll get an item with a RMS value of -9dbfs with RME
you'll get an item with a RMS value of -18dbfs with motu

In other words, level depends on the ADC

SO record at -9dbfs RMS on a fireface UCX is not a problem at all

Record at -9dbfs RMS on a motu is.

Let's make things a little more complex now

You record the same guitar plugged in the same preamp with an "y" cable at the rear of the preamp

One line is going in a rme set up
the other is going in a MOTU set up

Now we're creat an harware out from reaper to a line out of the two set and plug them into a tape machin with VU meter

ITEM record in the RME session will be -9dbfs
ITEM record in the Motu SEssion will be -18dbfs

when theses items are routed to the tape machine, What will we see on the tape machine

0 VU on both channel

because the DAC of each set up have the same alignement of their respective ADC

so for the RME, 0VU is -9 so when sending a -9 dbds signal level to the outside, it means 0VU

for the motu, 0Vu is -18


now, let's open the RME session on the motu set up and vice versa

the Item recorded in the RME is -9dbfs and we send it to the tape machin through the motu DAC

+9 VU on the tape machine

The item recorded in the motu rig is -18 dbfs anw we send it to the tape machin through the RME DAC

-9 VU on the tape machine

:P

what the...?

If you speak french, you can watch my video about recording levels in digital domains

i explain the concept from a to Z

http://youtu.be/-SuWj023b2E

if you don't speak french, check out the puremix video about recording levels by fab dupont, it's very well explained
Reno.thestraws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:18 AM   #64
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Hey, I'm talking use your ears. Nevermind the specs for now. What did your ears say?

Here is another quickie test: This time it's line input vs. hi-z input for a di guitar (same strat - single coil bridge).

https://app.box.com/s/88goxj44psz03ntqtj6u
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:30 AM   #65
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 8,522
Default

Well im going with the first one, more cutting sound, might depend on genre which is preferable but the first has more definition imo
A pretty good sound too.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:31 AM   #66
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgon View Post
Well im going with the first one, more cutting sound, might depend on genre which is preferable but the first has more definition imo
Do you think that eq could make up for the difference between the two? Or is one of them too flawed?
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:37 AM   #67
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 8,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Do you think that eq could make up for the difference between the two?
Maybe, the second one just a bit cloudy by comparison, the first one sounds kinda gated and sharp. Im not really expert though bc I tend to have forgotten stuff and have to retrial all the time.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:38 AM   #68
DigiDis
Human being with feelings
 
DigiDis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 289
Default

I too have never gotten convincing crunch and metal tones out of the software amp sims. The strange thing is that the hardware sims are all very good, even the Behringer V-Amp. My suggestion would be to go pick up a cheap used Pod or equivalent and use that.

Interestingly, I wonder if you just used a ultraclean signal from a Pod plus the cab sim and then ran that through Guitar Rig if it wouldn't sound much better. Food for thought.
DigiDis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:39 AM   #69
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgon View Post
Maybe, the second one just a bit cloudy by comparison, the first one sounds kinda gated and sharp. Im not really expert though bc I tend to have forgotten stuff and have to retrial all the time.
I agree with your comments. Everything is the same throughout (except input and playing), and I might see if changing settings makes a difference, just out of curiosity.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:46 AM   #70
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Made some small tweaks to the tone controls for one of the clips:
https://app.box.com/s/h18p18a44wwt9z2zuvc4
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:55 AM   #71
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 8,522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Made some small tweaks to the tone controls for one of the clips:
https://app.box.com/s/h18p18a44wwt9z2zuvc4
Listened 4x The second one now has more definition, I don't wanna nitpick but I would be looking for a sound right between those two. The second ones got good responsive sound but falls away from the peaks a bit quick imo, both sound good though.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:59 AM   #72
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgon View Post
Listened 4x The second one now has more definition, I don't wanna nitpick but I would be looking for a sound right between those two. The second ones got good responsive sound but falls away from the peaks a bit quick imo, both sound good though.
Good observations, I think. Thanks for playing.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 01:01 AM   #73
spk77
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,488
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
...to everyone on here who can get great guitar tones out of software amp sims, because I fricking can't. I have really no idea how you do it.

I've been playing around with a whole bunch of freeware stuff today (LePou, Ignite amps, old version of X50 etc) and everything sounds TERRIBLE. I get crazy amounts of hiss, lots more than with any real amp I've ever encountered. There's no top end and no clarity. It's like I'm playing on the neck pickup with the tone knob all the way down. Palm mutes sound like wet farts.
For tight response - try Ignite amps Emissary (gain at 8-12 o'clock). It's the first amp sim that responses to palm mutes the way I really like. Maybe an overdrive pedal before it - (f.ex. TS-999: drive at 0 -> use level to adjust the "amp input level").

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
Clearly this is not a problem with the plugins themselves, as so many others seem to be getting workable tones out of them. So what's the secret?
Here are some guitar DI-tracks for testing (from Ultimate Metal Forum):

Incarnated - Carna Asada:
EDIT (added info): "I used an ESP Horizon 7 with EMG 707's and a P.O.S Fender squire bass. I recorded the dry signal from my PODHD500."
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/p...-included.html

The Definitive Rose of Sharyn DI + Backing (JeffTD):
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/p...i-backing.html

Last edited by spk77; 08-31-2014 at 04:28 AM.
spk77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 02:42 AM   #74
cerendir
Human being with feelings
 
cerendir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,003
Default

Thanks for the heads up about Emissary spk77! I think I'm starting to make some progress here:

https://app.box.com/s/0u7g4qjziqumvvv1chso

I tried running the guitar through a bypassed Korg AX3G pedal into the interface. Much better feel and response, though noise levels are still unacceptable. With the TS-999 in front the hiss is crazy. I need to switch out some cables and try this again.
__________________
mattiaswestlund.net | facebook | soundcloud | bandcamp
cerendir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 03:27 AM   #75
alex1073
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 628
Default

What hiss are you talking about? Is it there when you're not playing? If so, a gate in front of the amp sim is a must, especially for high gain tones.

Cheers,
Alex

Last edited by alex1073; 08-31-2014 at 10:46 AM.
alex1073 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 05:06 AM   #76
spk77
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,488
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
Thanks for the heads up about Emissary spk77! I think I'm starting to make some progress here:

https://app.box.com/s/0u7g4qjziqumvvv1chso

I tried running the guitar through a bypassed Korg AX3G pedal into the interface. Much better feel and response, though noise levels are still unacceptable. With the TS-999 in front the hiss is crazy. I need to switch out some cables and try this again.
Sounds much better! Don't know what could be causing the hiss.

Maybe you have already tried these (these things worked for me):
  • If you are playing in front of a monitor -> rotate your guitar (and yourself - for easier playing ) 90-degrees to the monitor.
  • Try to plug your devices into the same power outlet (and remove unnecessary devices).

(Actually, I don't need a noise gate when I play far enough away from the monitor)

Last edited by spk77; 08-31-2014 at 09:00 AM.
spk77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 10:03 AM   #77
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giano View Post
Yep, give me some Behringer and I ll show you my garbage can
My V-Amp Pro shows you the middle finger. That thing sounds awesome.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 10:30 AM   #78
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
My V-Amp Pro shows you the middle finger. That thing sounds awesome.
Got a clip?
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 11:05 AM   #79
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,918
Default

I have some older ones with my lousy playing (damn, there were so many missed pinch harmonics that would have sounded awesome if I actually PLAYED THEM CORRECTLY -_-). Some tones I went through weren't as good as I wanted them, though. But some were rocking! I also don't particularly like the reverb on it, but oh well. The amp models themselves are VERY good for the money.

https://app.box.com/s/2qbb2jiqa2bvikwsm93z
https://app.box.com/s/n829g3mxc32zj5878jxw


(Fun fact: "brljanje" in Croatian literally means "messing (things) up"! Also, bonus internets to those who figure out which "famous bands" riffs I shoddily played - most stuff is just improv though.)


Guitar used: Washburn X40 Pro QTBL


Last edited by EvilDragon; 08-31-2014 at 11:23 AM.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:00 PM   #80
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I have some older ones with my lousy playing (damn, there were so many missed pinch harmonics that would have sounded awesome if I actually PLAYED THEM CORRECTLY -_-). Some tones I went through weren't as good as I wanted them, though. But some were rocking! I also don't particularly like the reverb on it, but oh well. The amp models themselves are VERY good for the money.

https://app.box.com/s/2qbb2jiqa2bvikwsm93z
https://app.box.com/s/n829g3mxc32zj5878jxw


(Fun fact: "brljanje" in Croatian literally means "messing (things) up"! Also, bonus internets to those who figure out which "famous bands" riffs I shoddily played - most stuff is just improv though.)


Guitar used: Washburn X40 Pro QTBL

The high-gain doesn't sound bad. I don't know that I would prefer it over a software sim for sound alone, but the latency should be better than alot of interfaces, and hardware boxes are nice for playing without having to deal with a computer.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.