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Old 04-16-2012, 07:41 PM   #41
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Default Should I post another file?

HI all,

Once again- your efforts are greatly appreciated. Since a few of you are saying the same thing about my proximity changing- should I post a new raw file where I do not move? Normally I do this- but this was just an experiment and didnīt really get into my VO guy mode when recording as I normally do for clients. Let me know.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:32 PM   #42
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And me? :-(
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:00 AM   #43
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And me? :-(
Oh gosh Reno- I downloaded your files but must have not given thanks. Sorry about that. This thread thing can get a little hard to follow. Thanks a bunch. I will listen to all of these today and see which works best.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:14 AM   #44
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Default Most of these files are not loading

OK guys,

I think I mentioned that I am brand new to Reaper- I am probably doing something or many things wrong. But- the only file that loaded properly was Renoīs- the rest are missing files and they are offline in Reaper. I am sure it sounds like a newbie stupid thing- but you know what? I am a newbie and stupid when it comes to Reaper. So, I am going to the soundbooth now to record a piece of audio where I do not move and treat it just like one of my client sessions. If any care to give another go at it and upload "all" the files so that I can double click on the Reaper session file and go with it- it will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:50 AM   #45
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They are offline because the RPP files of the others use the MP3 files you've provided (what i want.mp3 and what i have.mp3)
So just put those MP3-files in a directory of your choice and tell Reaper where they are.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:21 AM   #46
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OK guys,

I think I mentioned that I am brand new to Reaper- I am probably doing something or many things wrong. But- the only file that loaded properly was Renoīs- the rest are missing files and they are offline in Reaper. I am sure it sounds like a newbie stupid thing- but you know what? I am a newbie and stupid when it comes to Reaper. So, I am going to the soundbooth now to record a piece of audio where I do not move and treat it just like one of my client sessions. If any care to give another go at it and upload "all" the files so that I can double click on the Reaper session file and go with it- it will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!
open one of the rpp that don't contain your files

select your original mp3 file on your computer and drag it into reaper (full left of arrangement)
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:06 AM   #47
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I like these challenges. Here is my attempt.
I appreciate it - thanks a lot!
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:07 AM   #48
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open one of the rpp that don't contain your files

select your original mp3 file on your computer and drag it into reaper (full left of arrangement)

And he says to himself Duh- Ugh that should have been obvious to me. Trying to get used to this program- Thanks Reno ;-)
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:14 AM   #49
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Updated mine again. I rushed out for an errand and when I came back with fresh ears, I thought what the hell. That doesn't match the target sound.

Hopefully this will.

http://shup.com/shup!/549768/VO-John...-and-Airon.zip
Thanks Airon- I really appreciate the effort!
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:19 AM   #50
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Default Please see my very 1st post for updates

Hi all,

I am just posting any updates I have on my very 1st post that started the thread. Itīs easier to keep track that way. Please check there to see where I am with this. (or how lost I am :-) I am messing with Todīs fx but only with the Rea EQ and #1. I am just trying to get a bit brighter and a bit less compressed sound out of it. The more natural yet with a nice presence is what I am looking for. But itīs gettin damn close. I also have decided to give back a bit to all of you for your time and effort. So, if you need a little audio for some project you are doing- please let me know. Again, refer to my demos to see if there is anything you might need now or in the future.

http://www.voices.com/demos/montylewis
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:31 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by JonnyGinese View Post
Ill take a look at it today.
I wanted to thank you again Jonny for getting this started. Tod built his chain by using yours as the foundation right? Really- thanks a lot because the sound is getting better all the time. I think with a few tweaks here and there- we might hit a home run with this one. I am tweaking the fx a bit in Todīs addition to what you made. Just trying to get it a bit less compressed sounding and more natural but trying also to maintain the big presence- yet not over the top. Slicing hairs now :-)
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:49 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Reaperto View Post
I like these challenges. Here is my attempt.
Great job Reaperto- many thanks!
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:55 AM   #53
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Hi, Falcon! Many thanks.

I am very impressed with Tod's use of the EQ. I'm trying to implement it in my workflow.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:16 AM   #54
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Hi, Falcon! Many thanks.

I am very impressed with Tod's use of the EQ. I'm trying to implement it in my workflow.
Yeah, I just brought down the compression a hair and honestly- I think it even sounds better than my colleagueīs. I am a happy camper thus far :-)

BTW- any idea how to get rid of the pops that occur on playback? Its not in the file itself but some kind of over modulation or something.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:31 AM   #55
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You mean this?:

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Originally Posted by MichaJo View Post
...
One nitpick, maybe not only a nitpick: There are "plopps" after silence. E.g. 01:06.000 "I appreciate all the help..."
With ReaXcomp disabled the plopps are gone (but the effect of it too of course)

Michael
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Originally Posted by JonnyGinese View Post
... The PLOPPING you were hearing was not the Gate it was ReaXComps auto gain function i think.. when I disable that for #2 and just push the gain a bit on #2 it seems to be gone.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:35 AM   #56
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You mean this?:
Dunno- I guess so. It only occurs on playback (only in Reaper playback and not in say a media player or other software) and was not recorded into the audio. It seems I read somewhere in some Reaper text about that and it had something to do with the settings. Thought maybe you all had dealt with that before. I tried looking at where Jonny said he fixed it- but I cant seem to make it stop.

I donīt see a ReaxComps being used in this chain either. The chain I am using is: ReaGate, ReaEQ, and JS LOSER-masterlimiter. Pops still there.

Last edited by Falcon; 04-17-2012 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:20 AM   #57
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Hi Falcon, I did put all of them together yesterday but didn't get around to posting it. Just direct this Reaper file to your audio and it should work. Thought it might help.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63198126/03%...20in%20one.RPP
Hi Tod- Well I think you have almost got it. I took your chain and tweaked the compression a bit so it wasnīt so boomy- but I am having another problem. Not sure what fx you used but it seems like the first part of some words are slightly cut off. Like the first consonant. Could that be the compression? Any ideas how to fix? Also, I am getting pops and cracks on playback. Tried to do what Jonny did when that happened and the pops still exist.

BTW- the consonants that get cut off most times are H, S and any other word with a soft letter. Like the word "heard" becomes "_eard". Please tell me where I can adjust this. Thanks

Last edited by Falcon; 04-17-2012 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:43 AM   #58
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That may be the gate I wager. Tod's gate range is 100%,i.e. no dry signal added back in. I did need to adjust one or two spots with the item volume automation so the gate still catches them as well. You'll want to experiment with that gate, because it has a variable look-ahead. Don't automate it though. It has a direct impact on the latency compensation the audio engine performs.


You wanted softer compression, here's a 2:1 softknee with partial attack(it starts a couple of milliseconds before the actual threshold trigger). Slightly stronger boost on the fundamental of the voice, and highend cut to match the original a little more.

http://shup.com/shup!/549815/VO-Airon-3.zip
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:16 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
That may be the gate I wager. Tod's gate range is 100%,i.e. no dry signal added back in. I did need to adjust one or two spots with the item volume automation so the gate still catches them as well. You'll want to experiment with that gate, because it has a variable look-ahead. Don't automate it though. It has a direct impact on the latency compensation the audio engine performs.


You wanted softer compression, here's a 2:1 softknee with partial attack(it starts a couple of milliseconds before the actual threshold trigger). Slightly stronger boost on the fundamental of the voice, and highend cut to match the original a little more.

http://shup.com/shup!/549815/VO-Airon-3.zip
I appreciate this Airon. But, I find though it becomes a bit muffled and looses its clarity. I tried to bring a little dry in- and even though it corrects the problem of cutting off soft letters, it starts to splatter and just doesnīt sound as clear when dry is out completely. Guess I will fiddle with it some more.

Now- when I click "preview filter output" it does correct the problem. Sorry, I am getting a bit lost with all this technical stuff now- but what does that actually mean in layman terms? I am re-posting comments as I figure things out. I see by doing that (clicking preview filter output) that there is no longer that nice silence in between statements but the letters are not cut off. There used to be a way to fix this in some other programs I worked with by decibels. Anything over or under a certain amount was either kept or discarded depending on the user settings.

Last edited by Falcon; 04-17-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:34 AM   #60
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Preview Filter Output just lets you listen to what is triggering the gate (or the compressor, as ReapComp has the same thing).

On the gate in my chain I use the filters to have the gate react to none of the rumble that might still be there, or high frequency peaks. The lookhead is larger than the attack and the RMS, so the gate will always open a little before the voice actually comes in, with the attack giving you the time it takes to fully open up the gate.

Tods gate has a longer attack than the look-ahead, so the gate might not even be fully open when the voice triggers, which would account for missing consonants at the start of a word. Hysteresis just helps with preventing the gate from slamming down on softer silibals at the end of a word or sentence.

Also, a word on switching between different versions of the same material.

Don't do it.

Switch between the target material (your collegues voice) and the newly processed versions, but never between differently processed versions.

The reason is that the ear adapts very, very quickly, so naturally, compared to something else one version may seem overly bright, or dull. Always switch back to A/B what your processing really does. Let the target material or reference play for a few seconds, before switching to the new material to listen to a match or not. It's a very common mistake people make, and they literally mix themselves in to a hole that way if they're not aware of the adaptability of the ear, or rather the brain behind it.

Just bypass all effects on the new material once in a while too. (Green switch above the FX button in the mixer). That probably reveals very quickly how well your ear has adapted too.

-edit-
http://shup.com/shup!/549816/VO-Airon-4.zip
Slightly better match, with the cuts at at 2-3k, lows and a stronger cut around 10k and in the highshelf, you get a little closer to your collegues voice.
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Last edited by airon; 04-17-2012 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:41 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
Preview Filter Output just lets you listen to what is triggering the gate (or the compressor, as ReapComp has the same thing).

On the gate in my chain I use the filters to have the gate react to none of the rumble that might still be there, or high frequency peaks. The lookhead is larger than the attack and the RMS, so the gate will always open a little before the voice actually comes in, with the attack giving you the time it takes to fully open up the gate.

Tods gate has a longer attack than the look-ahead, so the gate might not even be fully open when the voice triggers, which would account for missing consonants at the start of a word. Hysteresis just helps with preventing the gate from slamming down on softer silibals at the end of a word or sentence.

Also, a word on switching between different versions of the same material.

Don't do it.

Switch between the target material (your collegues voice) and the newly processed versions, but never between differently processed versions.

The reason is that the ear adapts very, very quickly, so naturally, compared to something else one version may seem overly bright, or dull. Always switch back to A/B what your processing really does. Let the target material or reference play for a few seconds, before switching to the new material to listen to a match or not. It's a very common mistake people make, and they literally mix themselves in to a hole that way if they're not aware of the adaptability of the ear, or rather the brain behind it.

Just switch off all effects on the new material once in a while too. (Green switch above the FX button in the mixer). That probably reveals very quickly how well your ear has adapted too.
Gotcha OK. I am not even listening to the original "What I have file" but merely placing the new "What I Have" that I posted earlier today in its place in the track. It is an even delivery with proper mic and mouth placement. If I could only get rid of that blasted "popping and cracking" on playback, I could concentrate a bit more and adjust the fx better. I will go between my colleague and yours and take your advice which is very sound. You obviously have been at this sort of thing for some time. Thanks for taking the time to help me.

Update: OK- your advice really does make a difference. I am comparing to his audio vs your chain on my audio (my new audio) and I wonder if there is a way to brighten it a tad more. Guess I will see what you have in Rea EQ?

Last edited by Falcon; 04-17-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:54 AM   #62
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It's a highshelf and band cut in the 8-18k range. Those were simply to reign in your voice to match his a little more, but if you want that throaty growl a little more, just switch those two upper bands off in the final ReaEQ.

There's an interesting little JS effect included in Reaper called "1973". If you want to boost high end, try that. Scott Stillwell wrote that, and he even made a commercial(improved) plugin version of it.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:59 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
It's a highshelf and band cut in the 8-18k range. Those were simply to reign in your voice to match his a little more, but if you want that throaty growl a little more, just switch those two upper bands off in the final ReaEQ.

There's an interesting little JS effect included in Reaper called "1973". If you want to boost high end, try that. Scott Stillwell wrote that, and he even made a commercial(improved) plugin version of it.

Hot damn- yeah- that did it. I assume you meant 1073 (its the only one close to what you said) Now, we are starting to cook :-)
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:10 AM   #64
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Hi Tod- Well I think you have almost got it. I took your chain and tweaked the compression a bit so it wasnīt so boomy- but I am having another problem. Not sure what fx you used but it seems like the first part of some words are slightly cut off. Like the first consonant. Could that be the compression? Any ideas how to fix? Also, I am getting pops and cracks on playback. Tried to do what Jonny did when that happened and the pops still exist.

BTW- the consonants that get cut off most times are H, S and any other word with a soft letter. Like the word "heard" becomes "_eard". Please tell me where I can adjust this. Thanks
Hi Falcon, airon's right, it would have to be the gate. I used the same gate that Jonny used and thought it sounded pretty good so I left it. Heh heh, I was so intent on the sound of your voice but I should have paid closer attention to it.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:26 AM   #65
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Default THANKS TO ALL! The results are in...

Well I must say- that is has taken me many years to come to the point where I am very satisfied with the sound I have. I wanted to say thank you to ALL of you who helped me on this project. The verdict? Jonny, Tod and Airon with their combined efforts came up with the sound that is nothing short of kick ass. Really, I am absolutely stoked now and have this huge smile on my face (although- I look like the kid who got away with stealing a pack of cigs from his momīs purse ;-)

I want to also thank marerecords, Ollie, Reaperto, and Reno.thestraws for your awesome help. I was able to see how you were able to create some things that really helped me to learn about Reaper and how some of these plug-ins functioned!

After careful consideration, I am using a combination of fx chains that were originally created by Jonny, then refined to my liking (and what my industry expects) via Tod and Airon.

Additional thanks to Reaper / Cockos support for their encouragement and suggestion of going to you all for help on this. If Cockos hadnīt given me ample time to investigate Reaper and all itīs attributes- I probably wouldnīt be here. I will be telling my colleagues about Reaper, and the wonderful people involved with it.

For those two chains- see the attachment. Awesome work guys! Now I can concentrate on my craft and not be embarrassed by the sound that I produce.

All the best,

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File Type: zip Reaper Keepers.zip (7.2 KB, 144 views)

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:25 AM   #66
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This has been a real eye opener for me. While I understand the theory behind how a compressor functions, I have not gained much aptitude when it comes to applying them in practice. It would never have occurred to me that there might be more than one compression stage on a vocal track.

Is this commonly done with singers as well, or is this more of a voice over specific thing?
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:31 AM   #67
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This has been a real eye opener for me. While I understand the theory behind how a compressor functions, I have not gained much aptitude when it comes to applying them in practice. It would never have occurred to me that there might be more than one compression stage on a vocal track.

Is this commonly done with singers as well, or is this more of a voice over specific thing?
Well each VO artist has his or her likes and dislikes. I am going for more of an industry standard. Something that accentuates the lows in my voice, yet does not blast the listener with overt low end. If I am cutting a very fast audition and trying to beat the masses in submitting it, I would go with the gate. But, if I am taking my time with a production where I can relax a bit and do a bit of editing later on (say like breaths, mouse clicks etc) then I may go without the gate. The mouse thing wont be a problem soon because I just bought a new silent mouse to fix that problem. Just depends on the circumstances.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:02 AM   #68
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Default My Radio FM voice

Two projects based on VO - Airon 4, the second one 'phushed forward' with a kind of a la Waves Vocal Rider.(for project two you need this free plugin http://electric-snow.net/downloads/jsFader.dll)

For project one play a l'bit with Boost and Drive sliders from BassManagement plugin. I call this "valve drive-bassy sound" nice FM Radio speach.

VO - Airon 4 tweak and ++

VO - Airon 4 tweak and +++ - gain rider aka Waves Vocal Rider

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71313359/VO.ZIP

Sorry if its late but if its good for anyone from forum, enjoy.


With respect, LuKa.

PS. Two dedicated plugins: WaveArts - Dialog and Voxengo - Voxformer.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:30 AM   #69
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Two projects based on VO - Airon 4, the second one 'phushed forward' with a kind of a la Waves Vocal Rider.(for project two you need this free plugin http://electric-snow.net/downloads/jsFader.dll)

For project one play a l'bit with Boost and Drive sliders from BassManagement plugin. I call this "valve drive-bassy sound" nice FM Radio speach.

VO - Airon 4 tweak and ++

VO - Airon 4 tweak and +++ - gain rider aka Waves Vocal Rider

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71313359/VO.ZIP

Sorry if its late but if its good for anyone from forum, enjoy.


With respect, LuKa.

PS. Two dedicated plugins: WaveArts - Dialog and Voxengo - Voxformer.
Thanks for the effort Luka- greatly appreciated!
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:26 AM   #70
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Thanks for the effort Luka- greatly appreciated!
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:31 AM   #71
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This is a great thread. It should be made sticky. It's what all podcasters and voice recording novices want to know.

I think we should even clean it up and make it into the Wiki.

What I would like to know is, how do you get such a high volume for the raw audio. I have an Onxy Satellite and a Rode Procaster (dynamic mic) and I have the input gain on the hardware nearly completly open, still, my recordings are much lower in volume, which then sounds choppy, when it gets into the gate of VOTest_3.RPP, for example.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #72
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This is a great thread. It should be made sticky. It's what all podcasters and voice recording novices want to know.

I think we should even clean it up and make it into the Wiki.

What I would like to know is, how do you get such a high volume for the raw audio. I have an Onxy Satellite and a Rode Procaster (dynamic mic) and I have the input gain on the hardware nearly completly open, still, my recordings are much lower in volume, which then sounds choppy, when it gets into the gate of VOTest_3.RPP, for example.

Hmm, thatīs probably a good question for others here. My input is about 75%- any more and it over modulates and distorts. Once the raw audio is ready for edit, I just normalize to -1% for most commercial use and about -3% for audiobooks.

I will need the help of some of these talented engineers when my Blue Woodpecker makes it back to the studio from the shop. Different animal in the sense that it is a ribbon and the mic used for this sample audio in this thread, was recorded with one of my condensers.

Last edited by Falcon; 09-04-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:22 PM   #73
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What I would like to know is, how do you get such a high volume for the raw audio. I have an Onxy Satellite and a Rode Procaster (dynamic mic) and I have the input gain on the hardware nearly completly open, still, my recordings are much lower in volume, which then sounds choppy, when it gets into the gate of VOTest_3.RPP, for example.
Hi amix, Regrdless of how high your tracks are recorded it's pretty important to record using 24-bit vrs 16-bit. 24-bit gives you a lot more headroom as far as getting better S/N (Signal to Noise).

That being said, give this a try. Just take one of your recorded tracks and normaize the track to about -1.0db. There's an action for normalizing to user input.

Then add a JS:LOSER?MasterLimiter as an FX to that track. Set the Threshold(db) at 2db and set the Limit(db)to -1.0db. Then as you play the track, start increasing the Threshold to 3db, 4,db etc.

This is not necessarily the best way to do this but it should give you some ideas on what can be done and how to proceed.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:23 PM   #74
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Should they be willing to go through this yet another time, I would recommend, that this time we create a well documented workflow, so other people can reproduce these FX chains for their setups (and their voices), too. Including you, who, as I guess, will come over several more mics during his professional life time.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:46 PM   #75
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This is not necessarily the best way to do this but it should give you some ideas on what can be done and how to proceed.
Thanks a lot! I very much appreciate your help. I feel like a blind man with a walking stick in the dark. What I "see" has the resolution of my walking stick cracking against it. And since it's dark, even seeing wouldn't help much, lol. But I'll get there.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:48 PM   #76
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I will need the help of some of these talented engineers when my Blue Woodpecker makes it back to the studio from the shop.
Do you remember the Wave plugin(s) your friend used on his voice? Might help for people having those in their arsenal, to remodel what those do.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:00 AM   #77
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Hi again all,

I am trying very hard to get a very broad, expanded and wide effect on my voice-overs now. I have heard a few of my colleagues demos with this effect- and WOW- I would like to do the same. I havenīt found plug-in in Reaper that does the trick. You can hear the type of effect here one a colleagues demo: http://mrvo.com/VRVOs/BasicAnncrVO.mp3

So, here is the scoop. Is there an effect in Reaper that can do this? If not- do you recommend one that does? I am currently looking at Nugen Stereoizer- but it does not show up in the Reaper. Sorry, but I am not a tech guy- just an voice guy and I donīt even know how to install new plug-ins in Reaper- ho would I do that? Lots of questions... so here they are again...

1) Is there an effect in Reaper that can do this? http://mrvo.com/VRVOs/BasicAnncrVO.mp3

2) If not, do you recommend one that will work with Reaper? And if so, how do I install it?

3) Generally, how do I install new plug-in in Reaper anyway?

Thanks again for your help!
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:55 AM   #78
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3) Generally, how do I install new plug-in in Reaper anyway?
Hi Falcon,

I'm on my wife's computer with some cheap comp speakers so I couldn't hear very well.

Aside from the regular EQ and compression it sounded like it had a little bit of short reverb on it like a convo-verb with a pretty short impulse.

To get 3rd party FX into Reaper you need to put them in a VST folder and then scan for them. To give you an idea this is how I did it on my old XP computer.

First I created a sub-folder in C:/Program Files called VST (C:/Program Files/VST). Then when ever I download or acquire FX I make sure the DLL files for those FX go in this VST folder (All VST FX have DLL extensions).

I might add to better organize this VST folder I also have other sub-folders in it. Like Amp Simulators, EQ, Compressors, Convo-Verbs, Reverbs, Chorus Plugs, etc.. Things like this can be changed later but if you do change them then they will have to be re-scanned.

Then in Reaper's Menu go to Options>Preferences>Plug-ins>VST. At the top of the Pref window click on Add.. and browse to that VST folder, select it and click on OK. Then click on Re-scan and you should be ready to go.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:08 AM   #79
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Thanks Tod- I appreciate the info. Yeah, it is better to hear the link and example on a decent speaker system. I mean this guys processing is balls to the wall awesome. He told me he doesnīt do much processing (he has to do something) I was born at night- but not last night. Itīs got some kind of expanded stereo field effect or widener or something on it. Just plain sweet. The plug in install info is great. I will attempt that.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:07 AM   #80
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Thanks Tod- I appreciate the info. Yeah, it is better to hear the link and example on a decent speaker system. I mean this guys processing is balls to the wall awesome. He told me he doesnīt do much processing (he has to do something) I was born at night- but not last night. Itīs got some kind of expanded stereo field effect or widener or something on it.
I finally had a chance to turn it up so I could hear it better and it don't hear any reverb like I thought. Yes it sounds like the guy's got a pretty ballsy voice with lots of presence.

Maybe if you could record just the first part about the cell phones with your own voice and post it. 44.1 at 16-bit would be good. Maybe I or someone else could come up with something.
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