Old 05-07-2014, 07:25 AM   #41
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Ok, what is that? I've kept up with the various drum threads and keep seeing that mentioned but don't understand what you mean. I haven't actually started trying out all the drums scenarios as yet because I just haven't had the time but was going to make time tomorrow... so I should probably know the "terms" before I start, eh?
Round Robins (RRs) are used to try eliminate the machine gun affect when you have the same sample playing over and over again.

By having 2, 3, 4, 5, or more different samples to play, you never play the same sample twice in a row.

So by having 2 or more sets of samples, they can be programmed to play 1 after the other.

With many samplers you can also set it up to play Randomly which works well too, although you can get the occasional double hit on one sample.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:12 AM   #42
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BTW Tod: Do you believe that changing the Big Mono samples to Splitstick or Popstick (mono vs. stereo) would improve the sound of your bundle much?
Good question Geir, the Big Mono drums sound pretty good.

Of course with both Splitsticks and Popsticks you've got the 3 mic positions, close, overheads, and room. The close will be 1 mic and the overheads will have 2. I'm not sure about the room, I would think they would be 2 mics also.

I see Popsticks has 48 velocity layers for the snare which is good. No Round Robins though.

As to whether they would sound better than Big Mono, they should, it would be interesting to see. Heh heh, I see Popsticks is only $19, kind of tempting to check it out.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:50 AM   #43
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Okay, so you're loading them in RS5K but your putting each instance on separate tracks? If so, that's okay. It uses a little more resources and adds a little more clutter but that will work.

How many midi tracks are you using?
The way I have things set up, each drum track starts out with RS5K as an FX plug in and then I load the appropriate wav files. I then add a midi item to the track to key in the drums and manipulate the velocity. I may be doing things the hard way but I don't quite understand how the template method works. I know that you included some things like wallpapers and possibly a template plus the text file for the notes but I don't quite understand how to use them properly.

I also saw another tutorial where the Insert Virtual Instrument Track was used as opposed to manipulating a regular track the way I did. Is there a benefit to one method or the other?

I should also mention that, prior to my installing Reaper recently, I have no experience with MIDI other than using my digital recorder's (Korg D1600) MIDI MTC to sync the tempo to an outboard drum machine.

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Old 05-07-2014, 10:09 AM   #44
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The way I have things set up, each drum track starts out with RS5K as an FX plug in and then I load the appropriate wav files. I then add a midi item to the track to key in the drums and manipulate the velocity. I may be doing things the hard way but I don't quite understand how the template method works.
Hi Dan, at least you've gotten that far and that's pretty good for just getting started with all this. Like I've already mentioned, doing it the way you are now will use a little more resources (CPU, Ram) and add to clutter by having several more tracks than you really need.

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I know that you included some things like wallpapers and possibly a template plus the text file for the notes but I don't quite understand how to use them properly.
Keep in mind, I also programmed this in Kontakt and I think you may be getting confused by that. Maybe I should have totally separated Kontakt and RS5K. The only parts you need to be concerned about are the parts associated with ReaSamplOmatic (RS5K).

The text file you're referring to is to load into the Midi Editor, then the keymapping will show up on the keyboard keys on the left. You need to save/copy/move that text file to a folder where you will have easy access to it from the Midi Editor. I have all portable installs of Reaper so I just make a folder that will go at the top of my Reaper folder, I name the folder 01 Note Names so I have easy access to it.

Then in the Midi Editor menu, use File/Custom note names/Load note names from file...

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I also saw another tutorial where the Insert Virtual Instrument Track was used as opposed to manipulating a regular track the way I did. Is there a benefit to one method or the other?
No, the outcome will be the same. It is beneficial however, that once you get a track setup with RS5K (with no samples loaded) and you've got the settings all set, then save that track as a template. Also you can save the FX chain from the FX window, or you can also save it as a preset in RS5K itself.

I think if you can open the Reaper project file I included in the package for RS5K, you can get a better idea of how you can consolidate some of the things you're doing.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:34 AM   #45
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Good question Geir, the Big Mono drums sound pretty good.

Of course with both Splitsticks and Popsticks you've got the 3 mic positions, close, overheads, and room. The close will be 1 mic and the overheads will have 2. I'm not sure about the room, I would think they would be 2 mics also.

I see Popsticks has 48 velocity layers for the snare which is good. No Round Robins though.

As to whether they would sound better than Big Mono, they should, it would be interesting to see. Heh heh, I see Popsticks is only $19, kind of tempting to check it out.
Ok, I thought I'd noticed that you had them, but then I was wrong.
Yes, it's a cheap package, but as it is, mostly for Kontakt/EXS24-owners.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #46
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Ok, I thought I'd noticed that you had them, but then I was wrong.
Yes, it's a cheap package, but as it is, mostly for Kontakt/EXS24-owners.
No I've got Kingpin and Plastique which I think is sort of a couple of their flagships.

I thought you had Kontakt, or is it just this old brain of mine.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:41 PM   #47
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Good question Geir, the Big Mono drums sound pretty good.

Of course with both Splitsticks and Popsticks you've got the 3 mic positions, close, overheads, and room. The close will be 1 mic and the overheads will have 2. I'm not sure about the room, I would think they would be 2 mics also.

I see Popsticks has 48 velocity layers for the snare which is good. No Round Robins though.

As to whether they would sound better than Big Mono, they should, it would be interesting to see. Heh heh, I see Popsticks is only $19, kind of tempting to check it out.
One way to look at Popsticks is 24 velocity layers x 2 RR's
I have done it a couple of times if there are enough velocity layers and it works pretty well.
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Old 05-07-2014, 01:54 PM   #48
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One way to look at Popsticks is 24 velocity layers x 2 RR's
I have done it a couple of times if there are enough velocity layers and it works pretty well.
Heh heh, you're absolutely right Sule, however, will it gain you anything?

If the 48 layers have been recorded properly with a good even spread, say from -36db to -0.5db, I think I can make the 48 velocities on one key sound better than splitting them up into RRs.

I think that's one of the sad dilemmas with most of the libraries out there today. Too much focus on RRS and not enough on Velocity Layers, it's the velo layers that give you the dynamics, not the RRs.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:27 PM   #49
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Round Robins (RRs) are used to try eliminate the machine gun affect when you have the same sample playing over and over again.

By having 2, 3, 4, 5, or more different samples to play, you never play the same sample twice in a row.

So by having 2 or more sets of samples, they can be programmed to play 1 after the other.

With many samplers you can also set it up to play Randomly which works well too, although you can get the occasional double hit on one sample.
Understood! I will be able to make more sense of it though once I get into it. Was hoping to today, but had to put it off... AGAIN!!!!

Tomorrow for sure... I hope...

Thanks, Tod!
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:29 PM   #50
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Heh heh, you're absolutely right Sule, however, will it gain you anything?

If the 48 layers have been recorded properly with a good even spread, say from -36db to -0.5db, I think I can make the 48 velocities on one key sound better than splitting them up into RRs.

I think that's one of the sad dilemmas with most of the libraries out there today. Too much focus on RRS and not enough on Velocity Layers, it's the velo layers that give you the dynamics, not the RRs.
100 percent agreed. This is a disturbing trend lately.
For eg : 6 velocity layers with 4 rr's.... I mean would it kill them to do 60 layers, especially since they already set up the studio for sampling.

This is also the reason that i was eyeing bfd / eco, just so i could get some of platinum samples sets, since they claim they have upto 256 velocity layers (!!!).

Also , i have a related question :

If there are only velocity layers only, how do i simulate round robin by ensuring that no two samples play continously.

Two possible general algos for this :

This first one ensures that the same midi velocity is not played twice. So the algo applies purely on midi data.
If (Vn = Vn-1 ) then Vn = Vn + K

Vn= current note velocity
Vn-1 = previous note velocity
K = constant that is close to the inter vel layer gap. This can also be minus k.

This second one applies to the samples.

If (current_sample = previous_sample) then play=next_sample

Yup i know thats the most retarded algo representation ever.

Anyways, how do i setup something like this for eg in Reaper and RS5K ?
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:59 AM   #51
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Also , i have a related question :

If there are only velocity layers only, how do i simulate round robin by ensuring that no two samples play continously.

Two possible general algos for this :

This first one ensures that the same midi velocity is not played twice. So the algo applies purely on midi data.
If (Vn = Vn-1 ) then Vn = Vn + K

Vn= current note velocity
Vn-1 = previous note velocity
K = constant that is close to the inter vel layer gap. This can also be minus k.

This second one applies to the samples.

If (current_sample = previous_sample) then play=next_sample

Yup i know thats the most retarded algo representation ever.

Anyways, how do i setup something like this for eg in Reaper and RS5K ?
In Kontakt this would be fairly simple with a script.

I think with RS5K it would take a programmable FX of some sort.

Irregardless, you'd have to know the exact upper and lower velocities of each sample. The only way I know of to find that out in RS5K, is to test the range for the number of velocities you have.

Heh heh, the only other way is to program your velocities with that in mind. I've mentioned it before, I think there is logic for each velocity of a drum hit. By that I mean, if you have a pattern (a hi-hat for example) every velocity will have a logical position (between 1 & 127) in that pattern.

Following this reasoning, if you have a hi-hat with 48 velo layers that's programmed in a logical way, it's highly unlikely you will hit the same sample twice in a row, or even every other hit.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:11 AM   #52
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In Kontakt this would be fairly simple with a script.

I think with RS5K it would take a programmable FX of some sort.

Irregardless, you'd have to know the exact upper and lower velocities of each sample. The only way I know of to find that out in RS5K, is to test the range for the number of velocities you have.

Heh heh, the only other way is to program your velocities with that in mind. I've mentioned it before, I think there is logic for each velocity of a drum hit. By that I mean, if you have a pattern (a hi-hat for example) every velocity will have a logical position (between 1 & 127) in that pattern.

Following this reasoning, if you have a hi-hat with 48 velo layers that's programmed in a logical way, it's highly unlikely you will hit the same sample twice in a row, or even every other hit.
Come to think of it, when i play with the alesis pad at higher sensitivity theres a ridiculous amount of dynamics as it is. With sufficient properly mapped layers that should be sufficient.

I need some time off from drum samplers i think.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:06 AM   #53
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Come to think of it, when i play with the alesis pad at higher sensitivity theres a ridiculous amount of dynamics as it is. With sufficient properly mapped layers that should be sufficient.
Yes, I think if your controller has a proper velocity sensitivity, just playing with the proper feel should avoid hitting the same sample twice, at least for the most part.

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I need some time off from drum samplers i think.
Aah, keep it up Sule, this has all been fun and your doing a great job.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:14 PM   #54
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As to whether they would sound better than Big Mono, they should, it would be interesting to see. Heh heh, I see Popsticks is only $19, kind of tempting to check it out.
I've been plugging (no pun intended) away learning to use RS5K using the Big Mono samples. I may be doing things the hard way by using a track for each drum using an instance of RS2K on each track. That said, I'm happy with what I've figured out but a bit disappointed in Big Mono mainly because there is too much room sound for my tastes on the samples. Tonight I downloaded Popsticks as the drum sounds were more to my liking. I had been tempted to go with Addictive Drums or Steven Slate Custom but for $19, Popsticks gives me the sounds I want/like and the functionality of RS2K is plenty sufficient for my needs.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:59 AM   #55
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I've been plugging (no pun intended) away learning to use RS5K using the Big Mono samples. I may be doing things the hard way by using a track for each drum using an instance of RS2K on each track. That said, I'm happy with what I've figured out but a bit disappointed in Big Mono mainly because there is too much room sound for my tastes on the samples. Tonight I downloaded Popsticks as the drum sounds were more to my liking. I had been tempted to go with Addictive Drums or Steven Slate Custom but for $19, Popsticks gives me the sounds I want/like and the functionality of RS2K is plenty sufficient for my needs.
Exactly ! Plus this setup is way more customizable to your own liking if you feel the need.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:26 AM   #56
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I LOVE splitsticks.

Nicest sounds I have found for that falling-backwards-off-your-stool style of drumming. Which suits a lot of my stuff/
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Old 05-16-2014, 02:38 PM   #57
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I LOVE splitsticks.

Nicest sounds I have found for that falling-backwards-off-your-stool style of drumming. Which suits a lot of my stuff/
Heh heh, careful Ivan, don't hurt yourself.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:29 PM   #58
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Well it took a while but here it is. ....I also applaud dylan and Analogue drums for making great sounding drums.
t.y. Annon
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Old 11-30-2015, 11:10 AM   #59
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Hi Tod.

I've just got ur drums up and running and saved in my track templates.

It's my first time using drum samples this way. I'm curious on what you guys do about the role of the overheads and room mics in this context.

Thanks a lot for the work you've done!
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:10 AM   #60
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I've just got ur drums up and running and saved in my track templates.

It's my first time using drum samples this way. I'm curious on what you guys do about the role of the overheads and room mics in this context.
Hi saresu, if you're talking about the drums in this thread, I don't think there are any overheads or room mics.

Heh heh, it's been a long time but if I recall, most of the samples are stereo with the exception of some of the Big Mono samples.

Which version are you using, RS5K or Kontakt?
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:57 AM   #61
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Hi saresu, if you're talking about the drums in this thread, I don't think there are any overheads or room mics.

Heh heh, it's been a long time but if I recall, most of the samples are stereo with the exception of some of the Big Mono samples.

Which version are you using, RS5K or Kontakt?
I see.

I use the RS5k
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:01 AM   #62
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Heh heh, careful Ivan, don't hurt yourself.

I put my virtual cushions behind my e-kit rather than inside the kick drum....

;D
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:08 AM   #63
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Hey Tod,

I've often wanted to use free midi files for simple drum tracks, but I can't seem to get them to work with this setup. All my drums are your templates, but sometimes manually drawing in the beats is a PITA. I'd love to be able to download midi files and plug them into this sampler and mix from there.

I can do this with my Arturia soft synths.
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:14 AM   #64
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Hey Tod,

I've often wanted to use free midi files for simple drum tracks, but I can't seem to get them to work with this setup. All my drums are your templates, but sometimes manually drawing in the beats is a PITA. I'd love to be able to download midi files and plug them into this sampler and mix from there.

I can do this with my Arturia soft synths.
Hi Kirk, it's all a matter of routing.

1. Drag you midi file into Reaper and place it on it's own track.

2. Click on the I/O button and open the routing for the midi track.

3. Click on "Add new send" and select the "RSK5 Drums".

4. Set the send up for Audio: None MIDI: All->All.

That should do it, but let me know if you have any problems.
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:10 AM   #65
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Hi Kirk, it's all a matter of routing.

1. Drag you midi file into Reaper and place it on it's own track.

2. Click on the I/O button and open the routing for the midi track.

3. Click on "Add new send" and select the "RSK5 Drums".

4. Set the send up for Audio: None MIDI: All->All.

That should do it, but let me know if you have any problems.
Thanks!

I'd also have to have the RSK5 Drums template loaded up as well, correct? (Stupid question, I know.)
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:30 PM   #66
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Thanks!

I'd also have to have the RSK5 Drums template loaded up as well, correct? (Stupid question, I know.)
Yeah, you wont be able to assign the midi track if RSK5 is not there.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:26 PM   #67
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Yeah, you wont be able to assign the midi track if RSK5 is not there.
Finally got back to this. I`m not getting any sound out of this file.



Also if anyone has a midi file for a basic train beat that works with thezr samples and mapping, I'd love a copy.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:49 PM   #68
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Finally got back to this. I`m not getting any sound out of this file.



Also if anyone has a midi file for a basic train beat that works with thezr samples and mapping, I'd love a copy.
Hi Kirk, I need a little more information.

Is this a continuation of your other posts?

Can you post the Reaper project RPP file with just the midi tracks and the RS5K track? That would help.
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Old 08-26-2016, 07:00 AM   #69
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Hi Kirk, I need a little more information.

Is this a continuation of your other posts?

Can you post the Reaper project RPP file with just the midi tracks and the RS5K track? That would help.
Sorry, Tod. Yes, it is a continuation.

Let me see if I follow, you need a screenshot of the TCP? Or you actually want me to upload the RPP? I don't think I can do that in a running thread, can I? Oh right, link to Dropbox.
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:10 PM   #70
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Okay, here`s the link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vpdjd4yplw...ldren.rpp?dl=0
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:17 PM   #71
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Woo hoo! Cant wait! rsk5 for life baby


Thanks tod, your work will be greatly appreciatted
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:42 PM   #72
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Okay, here`s the link.
Hi Kirk I just found this and I've DLed it, I'll be back shortly.
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Old 08-26-2016, 03:57 PM   #73
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Okay, open the midi editor on the midi track, track 17 "130 Train 130 C", I believe. Select all the notes and click on "F2" to open their properties. Chang the channel to "1".

If you open the instances of RS5K, you'll see that they are all set to Channel 1.

I guess that's something I did, I use channel 1 for all my drums. Probably should have set it to "0" for all channels. sorry about that.
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:22 PM   #74
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Okay, open the midi editor on the midi track, track 17 "130 Train 130 C", I believe. Select all the notes and click on "F2" to open their properties. Chang the channel to "1".

If you open the instances of RS5K, you'll see that they are all set to Channel 1.

I guess that's something I did, I use channel 1 for all my drums. Probably should have set it to "0" for all channels. sorry about that.
Thanks Tod! Works great! Now I just have to write in all the fills.
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Old 08-26-2016, 06:28 PM   #75
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Thanks Tod! Works great! Now I just have to write in all the fills.
Great, let me know if you have any other problems or questions.
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:24 AM   #76
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Did this happen?
I have no idea TonE, but everything we've done so far is here.

https://smmdrums.wordpress.com/
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