Old 10-15-2012, 03:36 PM   #81
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What are you guys using to draw these shetches in ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
First image: The connection of the inner ridge to the outer ridge ruins the decoupling of inner/outer structure, but it's maybe necessary?
Sorry, i wasn't aware you wanted a completely decoupled inner structure, if this is the case are you decoupling the floor as well?

With the concept i suggested the ridge beam and floor would be the only connecting members to the external structure.

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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
I also see you recommend fasten inner/outer in the corners, right?
No, the inner wall framing is completely seperate, in my drawing i allowed a 50mm gap between inner and outter walls, including the high raked gable end walls that carry the ridge beam.

Its still possible to use this concept and achieve full decoupling ( apart from the floor ).

In your last drawing you show a double Ceiling joist at about the 4020mm mark along the length of the building, i believe there is a 100x100 rafter between these joists, right ?

If so, build a grouping of studs to carry a ridge beam inbetween the double joists directly under the rafters, do the same at the gable end of the building, i think there is a small window there ? in that case, build a wider section of framework to include the window with a good size lintel over the window as the load from the ridge beam would be over the window.
It might be a good idea to build a 1200mm wide frame each side into the existing external wall and ply brace these two panels

The new ridge beam would have to be incorporated into this building stage.

Now the ridge beam is in place frame out the areas either side of the group studs supporting the ridge inside the building ( between the ceiling joists ) and securely fix the framework to the external wall at the gable end.

Fix the 100x100mm rafters to the new ridge beam with metal connectors of some kind, if you have a roof truss manufacturer close by they will have what you need, other wise good building supply stores should also carry fasteners that will work fine.

Now that the rafters are tied to the rigde beam they will no longer apply any ( very minimal anyway ) lateral load to the external supporting walls and it will be safe to remove the ceiling and joists from the new studio area.

You could then build the inner walls as per my drawings including a 2nd ridge beam/board and this new inner structure would not be connected to the outer anywhere except the floor.


Hope this makes sense

Cheers
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi Geir,

I noticed on an Ethan Winer site the other day he had these room dimension ratios posted. How good they are I'm not sure.

I think the only given at this point is the length, 4.66 meters. Based on that I've made these calculations which may or may not be correct. My maths not the greatest.

Code:
Hieght       Width        Length
  1           1.14         1.39 
  1           1.28         1.54
  1           1.6          2.33


Hieght       Width        Length
  1           1.14         1.39 
3.353         3.822        4.66
 
  1           1.28         1.54
3.026         3.873        4.66

  1           1.6          2.33
3.35          3.2          4.66
Of course because of the roof it's difficult to calculate the height so I'm not sure how one would go about that.
Length is 4176mm +-20mm

Yes, I saw those figures myself.

And yes, the roof-shape makes things a little more complicated
(But not really compared to many other designs I've seen with all sorts of angled walls)
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:08 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
And yes, the roof-shape makes things a little more complicated
(But not really compared to many other designs I've seen with all sorts of angled walls)
Heh heh, my control room is symmetrical but has no parallel surfaces. I'd be totally baffled trying to figure out it's modal aspects.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
What are you guys using to draw these shetches in ?
Hi Wolffman,

I've just been using Paint, I've got it configured so I can draw somewhat to scale using feet/inches and I've got a spreadsheet set up for calculating the metric to Ft/In.

Quote:
Sorry, i wasn't aware you wanted a completely decoupled inner structure, if this is the case are you decoupling the floor as well?

With the concept i suggested the ridge beam and floor would be the only connecting members to the external structure.
Yes the only coupling is right at the beam and your beam suggestion would certainly offer the most inner room space.

Quote:
In your last drawing you show a double Ceiling joist at about the 4020mm mark along the length of the building, i believe there is a 100x100 rafter between these joists, right ?
So is that the way your dimensioned lumber comes? 100mm x 100mm for a 4x4 or 50mm x 100mm for a 2x4?

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Old 10-16-2012, 11:10 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
What are you guys using to draw these shetches in ?
Me: SketchUp and OpenOffice Draw
And you? You had a very pro 2d drawing
Quote:



Sorry, i wasn't aware you wanted a completely decoupled inner structure, if this is the case are you decoupling the floor as well?

With the concept i suggested the ridge beam and floor would be the only connecting members to the external structure.



No, the inner wall framing is completely seperate, in my drawing i allowed a 50mm gap between inner and outter walls, including the high raked gable end walls that carry the ridge beam.

Its still possible to use this concept and achieve full decoupling ( apart from the floor ).

In your last drawing you show a double Ceiling joist at about the 4020mm mark along the length of the building, i believe there is a 100x100 rafter between these joists, right ?

If so, build a grouping of studs to carry a ridge beam inbetween the double joists directly under the rafters, do the same at the gable end of the building, i think there is a small window there ? in that case, build a wider section of framework to include the window with a good size lintel over the window as the load from the ridge beam would be over the window.
It might be a good idea to build a 1200mm wide frame each side into the existing external wall and ply brace these two panels

The new ridge beam would have to be incorporated into this building stage.

Now the ridge beam is in place frame out the areas either side of the group studs supporting the ridge inside the building ( between the ceiling joists ) and securely fix the framework to the external wall at the gable end.

Fix the 100x100mm rafters to the new ridge beam with metal connectors of some kind, if you have a roof truss manufacturer close by they will have what you need, other wise good building supply stores should also carry fasteners that will work fine.

Now that the rafters are tied to the rigde beam they will no longer apply any ( very minimal anyway ) lateral load to the external supporting walls and it will be safe to remove the ceiling and joists from the new studio area.

You could then build the inner walls as per my drawings including a 2nd ridge beam/board and this new inner structure would not be connected to the outer anywhere except the floor.


Hope this makes sense

Cheers
Thanks a lot for explaining!
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:29 AM   #86
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Thanks a lot for all your input guys!
You've been so helpful.

I started out with a budget in mind like 10-30 000Nok ($1640-$4920),
and was hoping some easy modifications could be done to make my shed into a usable recording and mixing-room.

Now, things add up:
- Redo the floor completely, making it concrete, leveled and with insulation and heating.
- Redo the outer wall completely.
- Build the inner room
- The roof-structure-complex
- Replacing 90% of all studs
- Redo the roof (yes, the sub-roof is not good enough regarding sound-proofing. Only 3mm)
- Redo the electrical completly
And then all the inside-room acoustic issues has not been looked at yet.

I asked about some rules and regulations in a Norwegian building forum, and was advised to tear it all down, and start from bottom up. It was something I didn't want to hear. But, it just makes sense.

So, then, I could as well find me another spot, and build something completely new.
The shed as it is, is a nice building on our plot, and is quite handy for this and that.

I've been looking around at the rooms available in our buildings, looking for usable spots with removable acoustic hangers and so, but I'm a little unsure what to do.

A new building seems like a lot of work, money, time..

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Old 10-17-2012, 09:48 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
I asked about some rules and regulations in a Norwegian building forum, and was advised to tear it all down, and start from bottom up. It was something I didn't want to hear. But, it just makes sense.
I hear you Geir and your final conclusions weren't totally unexpected. If the floor had been all cement and the walls and roof had been better constructed you would at least have had a fighting chance. But as it is, you're basically rebuilding the whole thing and restricted by whats there.

Quote:
A new building seems like a lot of work, money, time..
Yes unfortunately the cost of material these days is almost prohibitive unless you're already well off.

Fortunately for me I live in an area where logging is a major industry. Back during the years I did all my building I could drive my pickup to one of the mills, load it up, and cost next to nothing. That's not true today, many if not most of the logging mills have shut down so now I have to go to a lumber yard just like anyone else.

It also helped to be able to do everything myself. My father was a building contractor so I sort of grew up as a carpenter and although I played professionally and had a studio for most of my life, there were many times I was glad to have carpentry to fill in the void. Heh heh, you know how it is with a musician.

At any rate, I truly hope you acquire the means to get yourself setup with something that will work for you.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:20 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi Wolffman,

I've just been using Paint, I've got it configured so I can draw somewhat to scale using feet/inches and I've got a spreadsheet set up for calculating the metric to Ft/In.
Paint, wow, i had never thought of using paint to draw anything technical, learn something new all the time

Speaking of which, through this thread i discovered Sketchup, its free and from what i've done with it so far its seems brilliant, and if you have any experience with cad software, its very easy to understand and draws everything in 3D.
The cad software i use for work is complicated to draw in 3D so this Sketchup is a great find.

Thanks Geir.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post

So is that the way your dimensioned lumber comes? 100mm x 100mm for a 4x4 or 50mm x 100mm for a 2x4?

Yes, its all metric here in Australia, I think we changed in about 1972, i remember it was my last year of primary school, going into high school and having a whole new system for measurement, quantities etc was not a lot of fun

I still understand the imperial measurements though and its suprising the amount of older carpenters still come in and talk 4x2's and 3x1@1/2's

It messes with the younger guys heads when someone comes in and asks, do you have an 8'x3" hwd beam 15 ft long, the look on there faces


Cheers
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I hear you Geir and your final conclusions weren't totally unexpected. If the floor had been all cement and the walls and roof had been better constructed you would at least have had a fighting chance. But as it is, you're basically rebuilding the whole thing and restricted by whats there.
Yeah
Quote:
Yes unfortunately the cost of material these days is almost prohibitive unless you're already well off.

Fortunately for me I live in an area where logging is a major industry. Back during the years I did all my building I could drive my pickup to one of the mills, load it up, and cost next to nothing. That's not true today, many if not most of the logging mills have shut down so now I have to go to a lumber yard just like anyone else.

It also helped to be able to do everything myself. My father was a building contractor so I sort of grew up as a carpenter and although I played professionally and had a studio for most of my life, there were many times I was glad to have carpentry to fill in the void. Heh heh, you know how it is with a musician.

At any rate, I truly hope you acquire the means to get yourself setup with something that will work for you.
Thanks Tod
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:53 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Speaking of which, through this thread i discovered Sketchup, its free and from what i've done with it so far its seems brilliant, and if you have any experience with cad software, its very easy to understand and draws everything in 3D.
The cad software i use for work is complicated to draw in 3D so this Sketchup is a great find.

Thanks Geir.
SketchUp and CAD-software was new to me before I started this project. But I find it very satisfying and helpful to be able to make exact 3D-drawings.

Quote:
Yes, its all metric here in Australia, I think we changed in about 1972, i remember it was my last year of primary school, going into high school and having a whole new system for measurement, quantities etc was not a lot of fun

I still understand the imperial measurements though and its suprising the amount of older carpenters still come in and talk 4x2's and 3x1@1/2's

It messes with the younger guys heads when someone comes in and asks, do you have an 8'x3" hwd beam 15 ft long, the look on there faces
In norway we learn metric all the way, and the lumber yard is metric as well. But the dimensions are all mostly old school. So studs are typical 2"x4", labelled 48mm x 98mm.
Anyway, dealing so much with English forums and gear has thought me the imperial system
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:15 AM   #91
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So, the final blog-thread for this chapter of my studio-build:
Building a small studio - The big halt
http://geir-music.blogspot.no/2012/1...-big-halt.html

Thanks to everyone so far!
Hope you'll join me for the next chapter
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