Old 05-20-2019, 02:37 PM   #1
thevisi0nary
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Default How do I stop reaper from changing kontakt volumes?

If I have a kontakt instrument (one plugin instance) with several instruments inside that single plugin, and I set the volume for each one accordingly, all the ones except for the first one eventually get reset to a lower level for some reason. I am unsure what is causing this.

This thread does not help, because if I use reacontrol midi then all of the instruments will default to a single value (if I understand reacontrol midi correctly).
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=217767

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=120425

What I am trying to do is set each of the individual instrument channels within kontakt so that each time I use a different channel with that instrument, I don't have to do any volume adjustments, they are already balanced to each other. But reaper is changing the values and I have no clue at this point how to prevent it.

I see there is a setting for "CC reset overrides:", am I able to use this to stop reaper from sending any messages to change the sliders in kontakt? Wanted to ask here first before I start changing a bunch of settings and inadvertently do something wrong.

Thank you for your help!
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:59 PM   #2
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Why blame reaper with speculation?
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:12 PM   #3
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Are you using a MIDI piano keyboard? Sometimes they send CC messages on startup, it could be sending CC07 to all channels in Kontakt and resetting your volumes.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:42 PM   #4
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I ran into a similar problem with a different instrument. I have many midi items that come from another program. What I found was that all my midi items had codes for track volume and effects level at the start. I deleted those, and the problem went away.

You can see these codes in the midi editor event list. You can also add a midi logger as an FX on the midi track to record them in real time.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by pixpop View Post
I ran into a similar problem with a different instrument. I have many midi items that come from another program. What I found was that all my midi items had codes for track volume and effects level at the start. I deleted those, and the problem went away.

You can see these codes in the midi editor event list. You can also add a midi logger as an FX on the midi track to record them in real time.
Exactly, I export MIDI from Guitar Pro sometimes, and GP creates "Volume" information at the start or even at some points of the track, check for those lanes in CC that have a little "point" by its name's side, this indicates the lane has information.
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:56 PM   #6
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Yes, I've found no way around this other then to place the CC values I want at the front of the midi item, which is what I do. However, I use full song midi items so if you use more midi items on the track, I'm not sure what happens there.

You can set it up in "Preferences>Midi Devices" to not reset but that also has it's disadvantages.
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:45 PM   #7
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Yes, I've found no way around this other then to place the CC values I want at the front of the midi item, which is what I do. However, I use full song midi items so if you use more midi items on the track, I'm not sure what happens there.

You can set it up in "Preferences>Midi Devices" to not reset but that also has it's disadvantages.
Thank you Tod. I've considered doing this as a last ditch effort, although I don't use full track midi items so changing it for each one will get a little tedious. Hopefully there is a way to get each instrument slider to stay in position. Otherwise I would used to doing it per item.

Curious what kind of issues could arise from disabling the reset in the midi devices settings?
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Are you using a MIDI piano keyboard? Sometimes they send CC messages on startup, it could be sending CC07 to all channels in Kontakt and resetting your volumes.
I read about this. The reason I didn't think it had to do with this, is because it seems to happen by default to any tracks with multi instruments inside kontakt where I have adjusted the volume. What I mean is that it happens upon project load on several tracks, whether they are armed or not. It also does not happen in the middle of a project.

I still will look into seeing if any midi messages are being sent. Thanks!
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:54 PM   #9
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Why blame reaper with speculation?
There just doesn't seem to be any setting in kontakt regarding this. Though not saying kontakt definitely isn't causing it.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:33 PM   #10
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Since some time (supposedly since the update to Kontakt 6.0) I have a similar issue:

I use a Kontakt instance with an instrument bank.

Sometimes the pan of one of the instruments is mysteriously set to full left or to full right. It's not always the same instrument, but different ones had been affected. I don't know when this happens, I found it after loading the project, and it's saved within the project so the next prjoiect load results in the same.

As I don't have the full Kontakt version, I can't peer in the parameters of the instruments that are in an instrument bank, so I can't "see" the issue. When dropping the same instrument again in the same place in the bank, it's back to normal. Now I can save the Reaper project, and with the next load it's OK again.

In the instruments loaded in the bank, none has a dedicated "automation Parameter" assigned to or a CC "learned" to pan, while mltiple other instrument parameters are assigned to CCs (for Live playing) and a lot of Midi is flying around in the FX chain.
-Michael
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:23 AM   #11
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Perhaps you could compress a simple problem project file (no audio samples needed) into a ZIP file and post it here as an attachment so that we can have a look at it and see what's (not) happening?

How to post attachments (in Post #1)
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevisi0nary View Post
Curious what kind of issues could arise from disabling the reset in the midi devices settings?
I think what happens is that the last CC value is not seeked which for me is important. For example:

>you're playing along, then stop play and the value of CC7 it 100.

>The play cursor returns to the edit cursor and there's a previous value of 68 but no immediate CC7 values.

>Hit play and instead of playing at 68, CC7 is playing at 100.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:24 AM   #13
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I can confirm this has happened to me 3 or 4 times since the last few Reaper updates..
Never before.

I don't know what is causing it,
but it cannot be my MIDI keyboard since I physically disconnected the Volume fader and Pitch/Mod wheels from the circuit years ago.

And I've never used CC values to control volume (other than Kontakt's),
let alone use external MIDI files on my projects..


It just happens randomly that instruments might go to -inf Volume, or 0 Volume for no apparent reason;
and it seems to be something internal to Reaper, which is not even detected/archived on the Undo History.


However It's not yet a big deal, as I've always used Kontakt's Automations to control the instrument's volume;
so as soon as you press Play, the levels get corrected.

https://macprovid.vo.llnwd.net/o43/h..._Auto_menu.jpg

Last edited by ernzo; 05-21-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
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However It's not yet a big deal, as I've always used Kontakt's Automations to control the instrument's volume;
so as soon as you press Play, the levels get corrected.
Actually most Kontakt instruments aready have CC7 wired to Kontakt's main volume. In fact Kontakt's new file nki's has it as default.

Also many instruments also come with CC11 Expression setup. That's another one that get's me.
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Actually most Kontakt instruments aready have CC7 wired to Kontakt's main volume. In fact Kontakt's new file nki's has it as default.
Might something like that be true for pan, as well ?

How can I check and modify this (using the Kontakt "Player" version) ?

(In fact I usually use the instruments in Instrument Banks, and I assign a CC to the Kontakt master volume. )

Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Might something like that be true for pan, as well ?

How can I check and modify this (using the Kontakt "Player" version) ?

(In fact I usually use the instruments in Instrument Banks, and I assign a CC to the Kontakt master volume. )

Thanks,
-Michael
I think the instrument Pan is set as well, I can't actually remember using it because I usually control pan with a script.

Quote:
How can I check and modify this (using the Kontakt "Player" version) ?
You should be able to assign another controller to it and use that to control it. However I don't know if that would disconnect CC10 from the pan or not.

I haven't used banks in years, but I understand perfectly well why you do. I'm not sure how that works.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
You should be able to assign another controller to it and use that to control it.
In fact I would want to stop any remote control of Pan (and volume) of any dedicated instrument loaded in a bank.

I understand that I need to load the instrument directly in Kontakt, look and/modify the settings and then save it to a file, and later drop it in the bank's slot, and then save the Reaper project (with Kontakt containing that bank) to make the change permanent.

-Michael
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:14 PM   #18
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You should be able to disable resetting CCs on transport start/stop for CC7 and CC10, which should alleviate the issue.

Preferences->Audio->Playback, disable resetting MIDI CC/pitch on playback start and loop/skip (and stop, if you want), and then set reset overrides for CC7 and CC10 to -1 in the field below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thevisi0nary View Post
There just doesn't seem to be any setting in kontakt regarding this. Though not saying kontakt definitely isn't causing it.
There actually IS a setting like that in Kontakt, but it's per instrument. You need to go to Instrumetn Options, then Controllers, then disable responding to standard CCs for volume and pan. Then resave the instrument. But since this is tedious to do per instrument, try the Reaper setting I mentioned above first.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:01 AM   #19
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Preferences->Audio->Playback, disable resetting MIDI CC/pitch on playback start and loop/skip (and stop, if you want), and then set reset overrides for CC7 and CC10 to -1 in the field below.
Aah, it's been so many years I set that up, I totally forgot about it.

There's also the one at Preferences->Audio->MIDI Devices.
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