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Old 07-11-2019, 05:18 AM   #1
BlessedOne72
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Default RaspBerry Pi 3 B+ / REAPER

So ...

What's the "best" OS for RPi 3 B+ to run REAPER on ?

Ubuntu Mate or perhaps the Windows 10 IoT ?

Clear me up (((:::

- zERGEi W -
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:06 AM   #2
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Certainly not the Windows 10 thing...

It isn't even a complete OS. It's just a way to run some scripts on something that acts a bit like Windows. You can't install an application like Reaper on it, just dedicated scripts.

Personally, I'd go with Raspbian, as this seems the most compatible. And it's Debian underneath, so you can customise to your liking.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:33 AM   #3
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On the SDHC card I setup for use with REAPER, I used Raspbian, but found a post on another forum how to switch it's desktop to xfce.

I also made the same tweaks to user priority and memory use as on my desktop. To test it I temporarily plugged my Behringer UMC1820 into the Pi, and did a quick test recording four drum tracks in a single take along with some guitar and bass. It's sloppy coz my phones weren't loud enough for drums, but it did prove the concept of using a Pi to do multi-track recording.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
On the SDHC card I setup for use with REAPER, I used Raspbian, but found a post on another forum how to switch it's desktop to xfce.

I also made the same tweaks to user priority and memory use as on my desktop. To test it I temporarily plugged my Behringer UMC1820 into the Pi, and did a quick test recording four drum tracks in a single take along with some guitar and bass. It's sloppy coz my phones weren't loud enough for drums, but it did prove the concept of using a Pi to do multi-track recording.

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/...ongID=13892200
Hi ... Could You please give me a link to that post, you're referring to and what were the settings you made ?

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Old 07-11-2019, 08:40 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
Hi ... Could You please give me a link to that post, you're referring to and what were the settings you made ?

- ZERGEi -
Changing the default desktop to xfce wouldn't really make any difference to REAPER, but I like it better. I think this was the site where I found how to get xfce running on Raspberian.

https://makingstuffwork.net/technolo...pi-with-xfce4/

As for the user tweaks, this thread gets into the realtime priority and memory limits, which like I mentioned I did on both my desktop and Raspberry Pi.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=210390
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #6
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Haven't tried it for Reaper, but https://dietpi.com/ is a smashing debian based SBC distro.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
On the SDHC card I setup for use with REAPER, I used Raspbian, but found a post on another forum how to switch it's desktop to xfce.

I also made the same tweaks to user priority and memory use as on my desktop. To test it I temporarily plugged my Behringer UMC1820 into the Pi, and did a quick test recording four drum tracks in a single take along with some guitar and bass. It's sloppy coz my phones weren't loud enough for drums, but it did prove the concept of using a Pi to do multi-track recording.

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/...ongID=13892200
So did you record to a external USB-drive (flash-stick, etc.) ?
C'os I'm having drop-outs every 5 secs recording to the SD-card a single track at a time .
Only record monitoring enabled and no realtime fx at all . Still even the click is unstable .

I'm on Ubuntu Mate, for now ... As a matter of fact, the whole OS is extremely sluggish ...
even web browsing (though I'm using Midori) and in general so I'm looking for alts.

What about this ;

https://blokas.io/modep/

Can it be used for DAW-tasks or is it just for fx-processing ?

My audio-interface is a Zoom G2Nu and I'm using ALSA, Jack fails on REAPER !?!

- zERGEi -
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:15 PM   #8
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what about this as an os for pi and reaper?

https://blokas.io/patchbox-os/
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
So did you record to a external USB-drive (flash-stick, etc.) ?
C'os I'm having drop-outs every 5 secs recording to the SD-card a single track at a time .
Only record monitoring enabled and no realtime fx at all . Still even the click is unstable .
I recorded direct to the SDHC card. It's a high speed 64 GB Samsung EVO like this.

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Micro.../dp/B06XX29S9Q


Quote:
I'm on Ubuntu Mate, for now ... As a matter of fact, the whole OS is extremely sluggish ...
even web browsing (though I'm using Midori) and in general so I'm looking for alts.
I tried Mate on my 3 B+ but it seemed sluggish to me as well.

Quote:
What about this ;

https://blokas.io/modep/

Quote:
Can it be used for DAW-tasks or is it just for fx-processing ?
It looks like a stand along host for playing through from what I could tell.

My audio-interface is a Zoom G2Nu and I'm using ALSA, Jack fails on REAPER !?!
I was using ALSA when I recorded that short test. I've gotten JACK to work with the onboard sound from the Raspberry Pi, but with my Behringer UMC1820 I used ALSA because that's what I use on my desktop running Xubuntu with the same sound device.
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Old 07-29-2019, 07:42 PM   #10
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Default VST's that are ARM compiled and for Raspberry OS's

Hello ...i have found several powerful VST's that are compiled for
raspbery pi....and i think they are looking for the Raspbian ARM OS
or Ubuntu MATE (ARM)

https://www.kvraudio.com/news/overto...rry-pi-3-36934

https://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq6


does anybody have a comprehensive list of VST's that are Raspberry Pi compatable?

I think that most of them are looking for Raspbian OS (ARM) and since Raspbian OS
can be loaded onto many other tiny computers like ORANGE PI computers .....i am quite interested.

Has anybody ever got the "JOST" VST host working on Pi?........it's a VST HOST on ARM
that does not use "wine" in any way....

http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/Jost/

thanks

Vince.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by vincePEARL View Post
Has anybody ever got the "JOST" VST host working on Pi?........it's a VST HOST on ARM
that does not use "wine" in any way.....
Currently WINE only allows for running executables compiled for PC-Windows on Linux on the same hardware, by providing the software API such executables need. Hence WINE is not useful on ARM anyway. AFAIK, Windows for ARM is not released yet (but there seem to be some beta release). WINE for ARM might be seen in some years.

To run Windows executables in ARM you would need to use a CPU hardware emulator, that supposedly would degrade the performance by at least a factor of ten. This does not seem to make much sense for audio.
-Michael

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Old 07-30-2019, 12:00 AM   #12
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The OverTone DSP plug-ins for Raspberry Pi are not available at the present time - demand for the Pi versions proved negligible. We may port them to e.g. Pi4 if there is sufficient demand in future. They were developed / tested using Ubuntu MATE 32Bit on a Pi 3

Quote:
Has anybody ever got the "JOST" VST host working on Pi?........it's a VST HOST on ARM
that does not use "wine" in any way....
In simple terms, VST is just a standard way for the host / plug-in to talk to one another. It does not mean 'its a VST so it will work on my CPU' - the plug-in (and the host) both need to be VST comatible but most importantly, compiled (built) to run on the the type of hardware CPU you have e.g. x86, 86-64, ARM etc. Using compatibility layers such as WINE can be fragile and extremely version dependent (and would require a WINE version that would work with your CPU - normally WINE is only x86 compatible)
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
So ...

What's the "best" OS for RPi 3 B+ to run REAPER on ?

Ubuntu Mate or perhaps the Windows 10 IoT ?

Clear me up (((:::

- zERGEi W -
My opinion only, but I would say Debian or Raspbian. I don't know if Raspbian has RT Kernels available, but I do know that they are available in Debian for the RPi boards. If Raspbian has RT kernels, it is probably going to be the best because the OS is custom designed for the Rpi boards. Otherwise, Debian would be best. Again, this is just my opinion. :-)
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne72 View Post
So did you record to a external USB-drive (flash-stick, etc.) ?
C'os I'm having drop-outs every 5 secs recording to the SD-card a single track at a time .
Only record monitoring enabled and no realtime fx at all . Still even the click is unstable .

I'm on Ubuntu Mate, for now ... As a matter of fact, the whole OS is extremely sluggish ...
even web browsing (though I'm using Midori) and in general so I'm looking for alts.

What about this ;

https://blokas.io/modep/

Can it be used for DAW-tasks or is it just for fx-processing ?

My audio-interface is a Zoom G2Nu and I'm using ALSA, Jack fails on REAPER !?!

- zERGEi -
Modep is a very cool project, but it is only for Guitar FX processing. You need to look at the NON DAW project, Reaper, or Waveform projects since they are designed to run with the Rpi.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCipher View Post
what about this as an os for pi and reaper?

https://blokas.io/patchbox-os/
Audacity would work as a multitrack recorder, but I don't see an included MIDI sequencer. If you don't do Midi, this should work.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:41 PM   #16
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My main gripe with Audacity is that it only supports 2 outputs, stereo. And that's it.

For the rest, it's pretty awesome.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
It's just a way to run some scripts on something that acts a bit like Window
Just a quick clarification that this isn't quite accurate; it is the same OS under the covers. Reaper won't run on it because it's headless and ARM but otherwise, it's the guts of the same OS and will run universal apps, aka you can write an app and it will deploy to Windows 10, Window Iot, Windows Phone (when there was one) and so on in C# (.net core) or C++.

Still has services and registry and all that. I only know because I have a handful of them running and one is my main alarm control panel and have written apps for them off and on since it came out.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Just a quick clarification that this isn't quite accurate; it is the same OS under the covers. Reaper won't run on it because it's headless and ARM but otherwise, it's the guts of the same OS and will run universal apps, aka you can write an app and it will deploy to Windows 10, Window Iot, Windows Phone (when there was one) and so on in C# (.net core) or C++.

Still has services and registry and all that. I only know because I have a handful of them running and one is my main alarm control panel and have written apps for them off and on since it came out.
So what commercial applications could one expect to be able to run on a Raspberry Pi using Windows IOT? I mean, what is the practical application that fits IOT? I can run REAPER along with most Linux apps on Raspbian with or without the xfce desktop that I prefer.

I have another SDHC setup with LibreELEC that boots straight up into Kodi where I can then access libraries of recorded television (from a MythTV server with an 8 HDHomerun Ethernet tuner farm), pictures, video, music on my local network. Very handy on the second monitor, and it uses CEC over HDMI so the remote from the TV monitor it's plugged into, runs Kodi's interface.

So what do I get if I setup Windows IOT on yet another SDHC card?
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:03 PM   #19
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So what do I get if I setup Windows IOT on yet another SDHC card?
It's more industry and automation based IMHO and for Pi it's more utilitarian. I do like the remote management features meaning I can have one deployed in the house and compile/debug/publish my app to it over my WiFi's internal network. I can't think of any particular reason you'd need it per se.

I use as much Angular on Electron lately though. Which will deploy to Windows, Linux, Pi (Debian) and Mac. For me, the platform I use usually comes down to what I'm going to be dealing with and I'm the most familiar with.... based on whatever it is I need to do - sometimes it's none of those and C on an ESP8266 or Arduino instead. Depends on the need.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:32 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It's more industry and automation based IMHO and for Pi it's more utilitarian. I do like the remote management features meaning I can have one deployed in the house and compile/debug/publish my app to it over my WiFi's internal network. I can't think of any particular reason you'd need it per se.

I use as much Angular on Electron lately though. Which will deploy to Windows, Linux, Pi (Debian) and Mac. For me, the platform I use usually comes down to what I'm going to be dealing with and I'm the most familiar with.... based on whatever it is I need to do - sometimes it's none of those and C on an ESP8266 or Arduino instead. Depends on the need.
Kind of what I was thinking it was. I could prolly write apps to do stuff like poll thermal sensors every x number of seconds, and if above or below some threshold, do whatever the next thing is, or read RFID scanners and tell me how many jewelry items have been stolen from this particular show case.

For REAPER though, I'd run Raspbian with the tweaks I linked in an earlier post. Using xfce on it seems more nimble on my Pi 3 B+, but takes some steps to get running. With or without the xfce desktop the solid milled aluminum heatsink enclosure I use gets pretty warm, so I know it's getting a workout. It's one of these.

Edit: I wonder if the stuttering issue mentioned in an earlier post might be a thermal CPU throttling issue.

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Old 07-31-2019, 09:58 PM   #21
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you can write an app and it will deploy to Windows 10, Window Iot, Windows Phone (when there was one) .
AFAIK, Windows Phone uses a completely different API and hence dedicated apps. (Moreover I suppose it's depreciated for new development.)

AFAIK, the cost-free Windows IoT lacks the GUI API, but the payed version does provide it. Hence it should be "a standard Windows 10 for ARM" and there could be a Reaper version for same.

Is there really a Windows IoT for RasPi ?

-Michael

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Old 07-31-2019, 10:50 PM   #22
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AFAIK, Windows Phone uses a a completely different API and hence dedicated apps.
Except it isn't as I've written plenty of apps that run on windows desktop and phone. That was the entire point of "universal" apps.

Quote:
AFAIK, the cost-free Windows IoT lacks the GUI API, but the payed version does provide it. Hence it should be "a standard Windows 10 for ARM" and there could be a Reaper version for same.

Is there really a Windows IoT for RasPi ?

-Michael
They all lack the GUI cuz IoT/Embedded. Yes, Pi is one of the primary hardwares it runs on. My first Pi/Windows combo goes back a few years - I've been doing this for a while now is something I've actually done quite a bit.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:20 AM   #23
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They all lack the GUI cuz IoT/Embedded.
Hmm. My statement results from research i did some years ago.

But if you are right, what is the difference between the free and the payed for Windows IoT ?

(In fact I don't see why "embedded" should force "No Gui". It makes a lot of sense to use e.g. Remote Desktop with an embedded networked ("IoT") device, e.g. for configuration and service.

-Michael

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Old 08-01-2019, 07:04 AM   #24
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The free one is ARM/Pi etc. and the others will run regular apps as well as UWP (universal) Apps - A quick check shows they have changed things around a bit making it more confusing by bringing older embedded OS's etc. under the IoT umbrella. I've been using the IoT/Arm releases since 2015 IIRC when it was the only IoT there was and the one I'm speaking of. Something new that makes it more confusing is Server 2019 also has a headless version that carries the core name.

To be clear, there is a GUI on the headless versions but not a desktop/file explorer that we are used to - it's just an app that lets you config some things. No desktop is what I mean by headless. The first headless core server version was Server 2008 but would need to check.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:43 AM   #25
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My resrach at that timed yielded (regarding X64 hardware):
The free version only could run command-line type of programs, that don't use the GUI API. (We tested this)

The payed for version can run normal Windows programs. (We did not test this.)

-Michael
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:13 AM   #26
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My resrach at that timed yielded (regarding X64 hardware):
The free version only could run command-line type of programs, that don't use the GUI API. (We tested this)

The payed for version can run normal Windows programs. (We did not test this.)

-Michael
I'm talking about Windows IoT for ARM (free) for which I have actual GUIs running on since 2015 (screen shots in DIY thread in lounge).

You might want to mention the exact product you are discussing so we are on the same page since as I said earlier, the terms "core" and "IoT" have been munged as of late but nevertheless anything in this thread about Windows 10 IoT is for the ARM version which allows GUI apps - all others are irrelevant.

Are you at all familiar with the process of deploying a UWP app with GUI to Win10 IoT ARM? If so, what steps did you use?. You are probably conflating versions best I can tell but here we're talking about Win10 IoT ARM for Pi3 or are conflating Win32 apps with UWP apps.
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:29 AM   #27
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My early version of my alarm control panel running a GUI (UWP app) on Pi3/Windows 10 IoT:

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Old 08-01-2019, 01:45 PM   #28
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We agree that we disagree:

I think we agree that the free "Core" version does not provide a standard Windows GUI API. Neither on X64 nor on ARM
Also we agree that you can do a kind of GUI with other means than using the standard Windows GUI API, using Core as well on X86 as on ARM.

I juist claim to have read (back then) that you con use the standard Windowe GUI API with the payed version Of Windows 10 IoT for X64 (which supposedly is what once had been the Windows "embedded" distribution that was a standard distribution with the ability to strip off everything you don't need). Hence standard Windows programs should be runnable.

I don't claim to know anything at all about the payed version for ARM, nor do I have any intention (up til now) to do any development with same (or with the payed version on X64).

Also I am not interested in doing UWP. I'd either use Linux (for new projects) or would stick to the Windows GUI API (with whatever OS) when porting legacy programs, currently running on standard Windows boxes. (or use no GUI whatsoever).

-Michael
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Old 08-01-2019, 01:51 PM   #29
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We agree that we disagree:

I think we agree that the free "Core" version does not provide a standard Windows GUI API.
It doesn't contain a desktop that's why it's called core. GUI applications are 100% possible, I write them all the time. So yes we are speaking of different things, it's a no-brainer that the desktop GUI doesn't exist as it was the first thing I mentioned when I said "headless" that's what that means.

But you can write GUI applications on Pi/Win10 IoT FREE all day long.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:00 PM   #30
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I'm getting the vibe that "standard Windows GUI API" is the sticky wicket here.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #31
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I'm getting the vibe that "standard Windows GUI API" is the sticky wicket here.
Yea, he's on about the headed part (desktop/control panel et al) but I made that distinction a couple of posts in so.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:06 PM   #32
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It doesn't contain a desktop that's why it's called core. GUI applications are 100% possible, I write them all the time. So yes we are speaking of different things, it's a no-brainer that the desktop GUI doesn't exist as it was the first thing I mentioned when I said "headless" that's what that means.

But you can write GUI applications on Pi/Win10 IoT FREE all day long.
Besides being headless, it seems kind of toothless as well.

Well, unless you are looking to run utilitarian programs that you coded yourself.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:10 PM   #33
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Well, unless you are looking to run utilitarian programs that you coded yourself.
That's exactly what it is for and why I use it - I do a lot of stuff like that - the IoT industry is predicted to hit 123 billion by 2021 - my only regret is not being more invested in it (both by doing and by $$) way back in 2014 when I first got into it.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:12 PM   #34
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Yea, he's on about the headed part (desktop/control panel et al) but I made that distinction a couple of posts in so.
Maybe one day we'll have a headless Pi version of REAPER coded for Windows IoT.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:22 PM   #35
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That's why I said there probably was no need for you (and most anyone else here) to have interest in it... It's nothing to do with music. I only chimed in because Cyrano said it was something windows like you can only run scripts on but that's inaccurate. MinWin is a hint as to the root of all this which goes years back which was breaking all the links between the GUI and bottom of the OS...

https://betanews.com/2009/12/02/mark...re-of-windows/
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:33 PM   #36
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That's why I said there probably was no need for you (and most anyone else here) to have interest in it... It's nothing to do with music. I only chimed in because Cyrano said it was something windows like you can only run scripts on but that's inaccurate. MinWin is a hint as to the root of all this which goes years back which was breaking all the links between the GUI and bottom of the OS...

https://betanews.com/2009/12/02/mark...re-of-windows/
"The basic MinWin in Windows 7 is comprised of about 161 files, whose total footprint on disk is about 28 MB. Before you go thinking you could carry that around in the cheapest thumb drive you've got, realize that MinWin doesn't even issue a command prompt. It runs the kernel, basic system services, and the TCP/IP stack, and that's it."

We need that with a nice xfce desktop. Somebody code that so I can start using Lexicon's MPX Native Reverb with it's nasty iLok DRM again.
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Old 08-01-2019, 03:05 PM   #37
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There seems to be about zero interest in it on the RPi forum. And everybody is wondering when/if a Pi4 version will be ready...

Hec. Ataris are also still alive. Somehow.
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:09 PM   #38
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It doesn't contain a desktop ... I mentioned when I said "headless" that's what that means.
Exactly (Regarding Windows "desktop" supposedly is the correct term for what I called "GUI". In Linux the correct term would be "X" - but here you would explicitly add a widget set and a Windowing system between the user program and X itself, and the X server can accessed be via network).

And to me "headless" is qualifying the hardware to not featuring an always accessible general purpose monitor / mouse / keyboard interface. But that does not (and IMHO should not) pervent being able to access your software via Remote Desktop, or VNC, or "X" or ... . All these require the OS to provide the Desktop API to the user programs. With Linux (e.g. on a RasPI running Debian) this is not a problem at all. In most (low volume distribution) cases the graphics hardware is provided, anyway.

Hence a decent embedded (which now is called "IoT") OS should feature an optionally activateable "Desktop" API (including widget set library etc), that can be provided with an optional binding to Graphics hardware (if available, like e.g. on a RasPI), but also runnable without graphics hardware (supposedly only with highly dedicated hardware manufactured in high volume).

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Old 08-01-2019, 10:20 PM   #39
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So what commercial applications could one expect to be able to run on a Raspberry Pi using Windows IOT?
I have several dozen Pis deployed in the Chicago area that work as filters for Positive Train Control network data streaming back to my office in Seattle. They're cheap, they do the job, and while they aren't particularly reliable, they're cheap.

There are also several projects that place several dozen Pis on a network that allow students to develop software intended to run on large scale super-computing arrays without having to pay for time on those systems until they are sure their project is ready to run.

In short, they are great any time you need something easy to deploy that you don't really care if it frys itself or not.

I'd never run Reaper on one, though.
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:43 PM   #40
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Exactly (Regarding Windows "desktop" supposedly is the correct term for what I called "GUI". In Linux the correct term would be "X" - but here you would explicitly add a widget set and a Windowing system between the user program and X itself, and the X server can accessed be via network).

And to me "headless" is qualifying the hardware to not featuring an always accessible general purpose monitor / mouse / keyboard interface. But that does not (and IMHO should not) pervent being able to access your software via Remote Desktop, or VNC, or "X" or ... . All these require the OS to provide the Desktop API to the user programs. With Linux (e.g. on a RasPI running Debian) this is not a problem at all. In most (low volume distribution) cases the graphics hardware is provided, anyway.

Hence a decent embedded (which now is called "IoT") OS should feature an optionally activateable "Desktop" API (including widget set library etc), that can be provided with an optional binding to Graphics hardware (if available, like e.g. on a RasPI), but also runnable without graphics hardware (supposedly only with highly dedicated hardware manufactured in high volume).

-Michael
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