Old 09-25-2017, 01:55 PM   #1
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Default High Sierra official release

I'm hesitant to install this during a project I'm working on. Any issues with Reaper?
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:02 AM   #2
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Nobody knows. The version released today is not the same as the "Golden master"...
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:48 AM   #3
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I have been trying it out for the last hour and so far Reaper works fine no issues discovered yet.. sadly Reapers GUI is still very laggy and the playhead moves like its 1 frame per second.

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Old 09-26-2017, 05:49 AM   #4
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Goes without saying to make sure your backup clone is up to date for your current system so you can just quickly roll back right?

I see the installer has the same bug as 10.12 with some of the supported 2008 and 2009 machines getting called unsupported. Looks like a patch is out already too though. Apple keeps getting sloppier. I can remember back to when their OS installers were simple and just worked. Now you have to make a USB installer yourself with the terminal (or 3rd party download). Oh and don't forget to put the installer file you downloaded away for safe keeping yourself or it will delete itself after a use for your convenience so you have to download it again. Did Apple start hiring from Microsoft or something? This is the kind of stuff we would make jokes about Windows over to feel superior.

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Old 09-26-2017, 07:00 AM   #5
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If you're in the middle of a production, it doesn't seem very wise to upgrade now?

I hope the difference between the GM and the release is a patch for this:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-m...stealing-hack/

Otherwise, all 10.13 users are sitting ducks...

I'm afraid the exploit might work in previous versions of OSX too. But Apple clearly doesn't care about those.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:05 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rangler View Post
I'm hesitant to install this during a project I'm working on. Any issues with Reaper?

I'd be more worried about device compatibility than REAPER issues.

This is coming from a guy who finally upgraded from Yosemite to Sierra yesterday! My Mackie Onyx 1640i was in limbo until they finally updated drivers earlier this year.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:16 AM   #7
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I have been trying it out for the last hour and so far Reaper works fine no issues discovered yet.. sadly Reapers GUI is still very laggy and the playhead moves like its 1 frame per second.

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Well, that's an issue there!

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Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
If you're in the middle of a production, it doesn't seem very wise to upgrade now?

I hope the difference between the GM and the release is a patch for this:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-m...stealing-hack/

Otherwise, all 10.13 users are sitting ducks...

I'm afraid the exploit might work in previous versions of OSX too. But Apple clearly doesn't care about those.
And here I thought I was being paranoid avoiding the feature. Store multiple passwords in a file the OS has access to? I suppose it would be convenient to install a hook for my house key right next to the door outside too. Then I could just leave the key there and wouldn't have to have it in my pocket all day.


Just got an email from Apogee saying everything with 10.13 is all happiness and light.


The DIY business involved in making your USB installer and then shuffling OS install images around different hard drives might seem like regression or too much of a PITA but don't slack off on this! If you don't have known working OS installs kicking around on spare drives you can easily turn your computer into a paper weight if you hose up your only working copy. (This goes for Apple, Windows, or anything else.) Keep your backup clones in order and make the USB installers.

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Old 09-26-2017, 08:23 AM   #8
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Well, that's an issue there!



And here I thought I was being paranoid avoiding the feature. Store multiple passwords in a file the OS has access to? I suppose it would be convenient to install a hook for my house key right next to the door outside too. Then I could just leave the key there and wouldn't have to have it in my pocket all day.


Just got an email from Apogee saying everything with 10.13 is all happiness and light.


The DIY business involved in making your USB installer and then shuffling OS install images around different hard drives might seem like regression or too much of a PITA but don't slack off on this! If you don't have known working OS installs kicking around on spare drives you can easily turn your computer into a paper weight if you hose up your only working copy. (This goes for Apple, Windows, or anything else.) Keep your backup clones in order and make the USB installers.

wow you are really negative.., I have no problems with my iMac so far with 10.13.., and as you have read in the other threads is that Reapers GUI has always been laggy and slow and glitchy on these newer iMacs.., and as I have said a few times now the new GUI update Logic Pro X got a month or so ago is butter smooth on my iMac, so it is possible to make Reapers GUI smooth like LPX.

Reaper needs its GUI code updated/fixed for macOS.

..

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Old 09-26-2017, 08:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
If you're in the middle of a production, it doesn't seem very wise to upgrade now?

I hope the difference between the GM and the release is a patch for this:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-m...stealing-hack/

Otherwise, all 10.13 users are sitting ducks...

I'm afraid the exploit might work in previous versions of OSX too. But Apple clearly doesn't care about those.
wow your negative also.. lol.. look in order for this attack on your system to happen you have to download dodgy software or click on a dodgy email.., a hacker can not just get into your system easy peasy lemon squeezy.

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Old 09-26-2017, 08:36 AM   #10
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Just cynical. (The earlier post was the negative ranty one I thought...)

What do you do when someone sets the bar with something and then the next time they do it they come up short? Like when Styx did that Mr Roboto thing.

When this cycle happened with Protools, kicking off their demise... Reaper came along and there was positive happiness and light like never before!

So something good will come out of the ashes here too. And if Apple doesn't get back on track I think it's going to be soon even.

Honestly, Apple and OSX is still happiness and light compared to any other options. But when you release an installer with glaring bugs like this two times in a row it's going to get a few comments. But hey, it's patched already!
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:48 AM   #11
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Just cynical. (The earlier post was the negative ranty one I thought...)

What do you do when someone sets the bar with something and then the next time they do it they come up short? Like when Styx did that Mr Roboto thing.

When this cycle happened with Protools, kicking off their demise... Reaper came along and there was positive happiness and light like never before!

So something good will come out of the ashes here too. And if Apple doesn't get back on track I think it's going to be soon even.

Honestly, Apple and OSX is still happiness and light compared to any other options. But when you release an installer with glaring bugs like this two times in a row it's going to get a few comments. But hey, it's patched already!

Look all i can say is i have had no problems what so ever on this iMac.., my old 2008 MacBook Pro has no problem on Sierra either.., I hardly use it but it works fine, apple have and are upping their game now because of VR and AR.., they have to, the new iMacs that were released recently are fanastic and next year we will see this new modular Mac Pro.., soon there will be an update for 10.13 so any flaws and bugs will be mostly fixed.., the future is bright ok so lets not get stuck in cynical negative land.. hehe.


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Old 09-26-2017, 10:18 AM   #12
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My fingers are still crossed for all that too. (Stopped holding my breath a year or so ago though.)

Their recent refusal to keep going along with the level of information sharing that has started to become SOP raises a positive eyebrow as well. I've been using Firefox forever now but plan to actually check out Safari when I get around to making installers and playing around with 10.13.


The main point earlier is don't upgrade without having a backup to roll back to. I tend to post that whenever I see someone make a comment suggesting they are actually thinking about upgrading/modifying their OS install without a backup clone on hand.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:31 AM   #13
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My fingers are still crossed for all that too. (Stopped holding my breath a year or so ago though.)

Their recent refusal to keep going along with the level of information sharing that has started to become SOP raises a positive eyebrow as well. I've been using Firefox forever now but plan to actually check out Safari when I get around to making installers and playing around with 10.13.


The main point earlier is don't upgrade without having a backup to roll back to. I tend to post that whenever I see someone make a comment suggesting they are actually thinking about upgrading/modifying their OS install without a backup clone on hand.

Yes I totally agree about backups, I have an external HD with all my important stuff on it so if the OS goes stupid I can just format the computer and reinstall everything again easy peasy.

I also now realise that Reapers GUI needs to be rewritten for the new macOS environment.. if Logic Pro X can have its new GUI butter smooth so can Reaper!.

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Old 09-26-2017, 11:14 AM   #14
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Would be great to have an official and detailed statement from Cockos, whether they will implement the Apple Metal 2 API in Reaper, (comes with High Sierra), for better GPU/graphics performance in Reaper on macs.

But if they do implement it, i understood that older macs wouldn't really benefit from Metal 2 GPU anyways, and thus no real increase in graphic performance in Reaper, cause those older macs won't (or maybe partially will) be compatible with Metal 2 API.

Could also be that the Metal 2 API isn't useable at all for (better) DAW graphics performance, but only for graphics related software, like Final Cut Pro and Adobe shizzle.
(sorry for brainfarting this one).
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:35 AM   #15
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Would be great to have an official and detailed statement from Cockos, whether they will implement the Apple Metal 2 API in Reaper, (comes with High Sierra), for better GPU/graphics performance in Reaper on macs.

But if they do implement it, i understood that older macs wouldn't really benefit from Metal 2 GPU anyways, and thus no real increase in graphic performance in Reaper, cause those older macs won't (or maybe partially will) be compatible with Metal 2 API.

Could also be that the Metal 2 API isn't useable at all for (better) DAW graphics performance, but only for graphics related software, like Final Cut Pro and Adobe shizzle.
(sorry for brainfarting this one).
Logic Pro X 10.3.2 runs smooth and very responsive on Retina. Runs circles around REAPER, so it can be done.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:38 AM   #16
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Would be great to have an official and detailed statement from Cockos, whether they will implement the Apple Metal 2 API in Reaper, (comes with High Sierra), for better GPU/graphics performance in Reaper on macs.

But if they do implement it, i understood that older macs wouldn't really benefit from Metal 2 GPU anyways, and thus no real increase in graphic performance in Reaper, cause those older macs won't (or maybe partially will) be compatible with Metal 2 API.

Could also be that the Metal 2 API isn't useable at all for (better) DAW graphics performance, but only for graphics related software, like Final Cut Pro and Adobe shizzle.
(sorry for brainfarting this one).

Yes I agree but if this latest update of Logic Pro X can give it a smooth flowing GUI then it can be done for Reaper also.

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Old 09-26-2017, 11:54 AM   #17
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Logic Pro X is developed by Apple.
Maybe Apple uses some native technique in Logic for their nowadays smooth GUI,
not available to thirdparty's.

I'm no techno wizzard in this area but simply saying that GUI in Logic is smooth so should be possible in other GUI problematic DAW's also is, for me, not like 1+1=2.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:58 AM   #18
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Logic Pro X is developed by Apple.
Maybe Apple uses some native technique in Logic for their nowadays smooth GUI,
not available to thirdparty's.

I'm no techno wizzard in this area but simply saying that GUI in Logic is smooth so should be possible in other GUI problematic DAW's also is, for me, not like 1+1=2.
Logic had terrible problems with GUI lag when the Retina displays came out (like with REAPER, not across the board so not easy to narrow down), then when they fixed the GUI problem it was replaced with CPU spikes for the audio engine. It seems as if the latest OS and Logic have finally solved these issues.

If it was that much of a ball ache for Apple, I don't know how easy it will be for Cockos. Especially as Apple do like to keep developers in the dark.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:22 PM   #19
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Logic had terrible problems with GUI lag when the Retina displays came out (like with REAPER, not across the board so not easy to narrow down), then when they fixed the GUI problem it was replaced with CPU spikes for the audio engine. It seems as if the latest OS and Logic have finally solved these issues.

If it was that much of a ball ache for Apple, I don't know how easy it will be for Cockos. Especially as Apple do like to keep developers in the dark.
REAPER is a bit the odd one out at the moment...? Studio One is very responsive and Hi Res like logic (Pro tools etc...?)
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:28 PM   #20
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REAPER is a bit the odd one out at the moment...? Studio One is very responsive and Hi Res like logic (Pro tools etc...?)
I don't know what the current situation is, and I don't know anything about Studio One, but if you search Cubase/pro tools retina GUI lag, you will find that both DAW's had the same problem.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=108500

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=386328
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:41 PM   #21
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I don't know what the current situation is, and I don't know anything about Studio One, but if you search Cubase/pro tools retina GUI lag, you will find that both DAW's had the same problem.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=108500

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=386328
Tuesday 06.14.16 http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...n-macos-sierra

(Only Cubase joins the REAPER family....? )
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:48 PM   #22
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For me, count in Bitwig V2 also.
Totally unsmooth GUI, very laggy, especially dragging clips and/or midi notes around.

And i'm not the only one, so it seems (reading much about BW GUI lag for mac users).

Running latest V2 version of Bitwig on a very clean and maintained OSX 10.12.6, macbook retina 2015.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:51 PM   #23
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For me, count in Bitwig V2 also.
Totally unsmooth GUI, very laggy, especially dragging clips and/or midi notes around.

And i'm not the only one, so it seems (reading much about BW GUI lag for mac users).

Running latest V2 version of Bitwig on a very clean and maintained OSX 10.12.6, macbook retina 2015.
A few more and we can have a party!!!
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:56 PM   #24
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Tuesday 06.14.16 http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...n-macos-sierra

(Only Cubase joins the REAPER family....? )
If you look at the Avid thread I linked, it is someone saying that Sierra made the problem worse, and was written after the Pro Tools Expert article you linked to.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:08 PM   #25
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If you look at the Avid thread I linked, it is someone saying that Sierra made the problem worse, and was written after the Pro Tools Expert article you linked to.
Playing leapfrog I guess? Thing is… You fix it?

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...and-our-advice
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:13 PM   #26
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Playing leapfrog I guess? Thing is… You fix it?

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...and-our-advice
Fixes seem to only work for some and make things worse for others. Plus, if this was purely down to El Capitan (which the Avid forums would suggest is a bogus claim anyway) then it can't be the same issue that affected Logic, because that happened as soon as Retina displays came out.

Anyway, Pro Tools Expert were suggesting a 3rd party fix, not one by Avid:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Tools Expert
Please note this is a third party solution and we take no responsibility for it's suitability or offer any warranty, this is simply a link for you to use and to decide if you wish to use it.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:17 PM   #27
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Fixes seem to only work for some and make things worse for others. Plus, if this was purely down to El Capitan (which the Avid forums would suggest is a bogus claim anyway) then it can't be the same issue that affected Logic, because that happened as soon as Retina displays came out.

Anyway, Pro Tools Expert were suggesting a 3rd party fix, not one by Avid:
So you don't fix it? What is your point? If logic and Studio One can do it (I work with both) So can REAPER? What is the problem here?
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:04 PM   #28
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wow your negative also.. lol.. look in order for this attack on your system to happen you have to download dodgy software or click on a dodgy email.., a hacker can not just get into your system easy peasy lemon squeezy.
No it doesn't. Go watch the youtube vid.

Besides, with what's been happening the last couple of weeks (not only to OSX), I'm beginning to question what Apple is doing.

For instance, the security development "ward" at Apple, has been trying to make a full list of Apple's firmware updates. Only for EC, Sierra and High Sierra, of course. But because some of these might need some previous update on some machines, they needed to do a serious amount of digging. Can you believe Apple doesn't have a complete repository of it's firmware updates? Not even the recent ones?

I had a hard time grokking that. It used to be very different.

These reflections come at the moment when someone (probably some govt) has been hijacking downloads of Whatsapp, VLC and others in transit, to include malware. No precise info about platform, countries where this is happening and number of cases is available as yet. It has been detected by two labs, independently, but they might be under some sort of gag order. The lack of details is stunning.

So it is very certainly not:

Macs are safe, Windows is a sieve.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:31 PM   #29
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So you don't fix it? What is your point? If logic and Studio One can do it (I work with both) So can REAPER? What is the problem here?
Of course a fix should be pursued, but seeing as it's taken Apple 5 years to sort it out (if that really is the case), I don't think it's the quick fix you seem to think it is.

You are also making a lot of assumptions about the nature of the problem. You know that some people switched from Logic to REAPER because of the same issue, right? It must be a complex problem because it occurs in such a random way. Just because it manifests itself one way on your machine, that doesn't mean that is how it is on all machines.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:25 PM   #30
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Of course a fix should be pursued, but seeing as it's taken Apple 5 years to sort it out (if that really is the case), I don't think it's the quick fix you seem to think it is.

You are also making a lot of assumptions about the nature of the problem. You know that some people switched from Logic to REAPER because of the same issue, right? It must be a complex problem because it occurs in such a random way. Just because it manifests itself one way on your machine, that doesn't mean that is how it is on all machines.
I never said or assumed any of those things? Just saying that in the meantime certain DAWS apparently have figured it out so it is possible (it is not just my system but a global consensus) So maybe it is time REAPER made an effort in that direction and maybe they will....
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:30 PM   #31
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I never said or assumed any of those things? Just saying that in the meantime certain DAWS apparently have figured it out so it is possible (it is not just my system but a global consensus) So maybe it is time REAPER made an effort in that direction and maybe they will....
It's not a global consensus, because my late 2015 iMac doesn't have these problems. Would I appreciate a few more fps for the meters and playhead? Sure, but it's fine as it is.

I think it might be a bit soon to say it's all figured out on other DAW's. It might be on the other DAW's you've used on your system, but I think we need to wait a while to see what the other DAW forums are saying once more people have upgraded to High Sierra. Like I said, some people had the problem on Logic but not with REAPER, so I'm not sure if it's a problem Cockos can fix.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:45 PM   #32
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It's not a global consensus, because my late 2015 iMac doesn't have these problems. Would I appreciate a few more fps for the meters and playhead? Sure, but it's fine as it is.

I think it might be a bit soon to say it's all figured out on other DAW's. It might be on the other DAW's you've used on your system, but I think we need to wait a while to see what the other DAW forums are saying once more people have upgraded to High Sierra. Like I said, some people had the problem on Logic but not with REAPER, so I'm not sure if it's a problem Cockos can fix.
Of course a global consensus is not untrue because your system does not have these problems. That would mean that if my system does have these problems, by your own definition the consensus would be true (this is getting silly) Yes, it is a global consensus.

Also: if this is a 2015 Retina iMac I’ll bet that you are having these problems…. If not, I really would like to see a quicktime movie of this.
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:12 PM   #33
Judders
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Of course a global consensus is not untrue because your system does not have these problems. That would mean that if my system does have these problems, by your own definition the consensus would be true (this is getting silly) Yes, it is a global consensus.
You've lost me there!

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Also: if this is a 2015 Retina iMac I’ll bet that you are having these problems…. If not, I really would like to see a quicktime movie of this.
Think I would have noticed if REAPER was running at 1 fps like future8me says his is, it's nothing like the Pro Tools video in the link you gave either.

I'm going to PM you dropbox links to a quicktime video so you can see for yourself (can't be bothered to edit it to remove my name from the finder bar at the top of the screen).
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:42 PM   #34
esosotericmetal
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I believe Justin said in another thread regarding GUI lagginess something to the effect that Reaper GUI will most likely always be less smooth on macos compared to windows due to the way the graphics are implemented on macos. It sounded like there was a possibility that this will change in the future, but I think for now people need should probably accept that there the GUI will not be as smooth as Logic, which has definitely been smooth af since the last couple updates. Will try to find a link to the thread later when I get a chance.

It's a bit of a bummer that Reaper is not visually as snappy as it is under-the-hood, but at the end of the day it's still completely usable (at least on my setup). The Logic GUi may be smooth as hell, but there's still plenty of other ways that it is slow and clunky.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:32 AM   #35
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The fact is that we are now on another new macOS '10.13' which has newer graphics enhancements so that all software written for macOS can run smoother and faster..., all Reaper needs is some new attention to its GUI code.., simple, everything else said in here is just speculation and diversion.

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Old 09-27-2017, 02:29 AM   #36
pyercoffin
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Hey all,

So I've installed High Sierra (too much free time and not in production right now).
And I can't seem to be able to use anything in the File Menu anymore! If I click Open Project, Save As, Render,... nothing happens.
The shortcuts and the corresponding icons work though...
Also at launch, the Scanning VST Plugins stays quite a long time, even though there are no new plugins installed.
Oh and I had to change (force) the version of Python installed (2.7 and the default was 2.6. At least on my rig).
And lastly (for now), I seem to have lost all my Recent Project List... Even though they are in my Reaper.ini!!
Will post more, when I find more.
The File Menu bug is really bad though...

(UPDATE)
SWS_EXTENSIONS seems to be the culprit of the above. Uninstalled them, and everything works like it should! Well except the VST & Python thingies but no biggies.

Pyer
(Edited to add the recent list thingy)
(Edited again for posterity)

Last edited by pyercoffin; 09-27-2017 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:29 AM   #37
drummerboy
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I can confirm that something went fishy with High Sierra / SWS.
All my Themes are gone from the menu (still in Resources Folder) and no more right-click menus on TCP/MCP/Media Lane. It all works if I uninstall SWS.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:23 PM   #38
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Fixed with SWS 2.9.7!

Thanks for the fast fix!
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