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Old 11-30-2012, 12:09 AM   #1
hopi
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Default A Newbie's Guide to Multi-Out VSTi Routing

EDIT: revised and updated Dec 04, 2012

Please download this version again... and sorry for all the hassles... the stash has been mean to me lately!

Newly revised and uploaded to the stash:
click on the link below to go there and download it.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/14707/Reape...ide-2.0.1a.zip


The intention is to give a step by step guide with pictures and examples about how to manually set up the routing for a Multi-Out VSTi.

Since this issue comes up over and over for new users, I'm hoping this might kill a hundred birds with one stone [so to speak].

It uses the free version of Sample Tank as an example since anyone can get and use that.. for free.
[Thank you IK Multimedia guys ]

There is a read me text inside the zip file.

Although it is for New Users, I'd appreciate any feedback and thoughts from the old hands.

Amen.

PS: I want to be sure that Dark Star gets as much credit for this guide as I do... [actually I don't need any.. ] Because he has hung in with me through 4 or 5 rounds of proof reading and editing and corrections that he spotted, etc. [I'm so damn sloppy when it comes to some things - and I can't spell wurff a damm]
Thanks BIG TIME Dark Star!
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Last edited by hopi; 12-04-2012 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:17 AM   #2
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Hopi,
Very nice contribution to the community. I have a couple suggestions for you to consider:

1. You might consider putting the "So What Exactly IS the Goal?" section farther up. My guess is that most newbies would already have figured out how to do the stuff you describe at first in the guide. It's the multi-out part that is confusing.

2. In step 6, you asked them to arm the VSTi track, and change the input to "record disable". Is this really necessary? I have never done this, and have not noticed any problems. Just seems like an extra step, with no explanation of "why" (which might confuse newbies.)

3. On page 11, in the part where you want to record the audio, you tell them to Arm the audio tracks and press record. But I could not find anywhere in the document where you told them that the record mode for those tracks must be set to record Output. If it's in there, it's buried, and I think that needs to be highlighted.

You obviously spent some time with this. Very generous of you.

Chapter 2 might be a similar set of instructions for a Drum VSTi, where all the midi is on the VSTi track, with just the audio tracks being separated. I guess that's a little easier, since Reaper will set that up automatically.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:56 AM   #3
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Just a fast PS here:
I will be doing a few typo edits and changes to the PDF soon.
What is there for now IS useable so you can get that and later get the newest version...

KevinW... ok let's see...
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
Hopi,
Very nice contribution to the community. I have a couple suggestions for you to consider:

1. You might consider putting the "So What Exactly IS the Goal?" section farther up. My guess is that most newbies would already have figured out how to do the stuff you describe at first in the guide. It's the multi-out part that is confusing.

----yeah, well no way to know what is in each newbie mind, eh? I have written and worked with quite a few of them both here and on the phone... I guess my thought is to get them through the frustration and to be able to do a manual set up... after that they hopefully can get more creative with routing. My personal experience with may new users is that they have 'figured' it out totally hair-balled, thereby creating more problems than they solved... I'm trying to get them cleared up on that.

2. In step 6, you asked them to arm the VSTi track, and change the input to "record disable". Is this really necessary? I have never done this, and have not noticed any problems. Just seems like an extra step, with no explanation of "why" (which might confuse newbies.)

----well it's not to confuse them, it's to prevent them from doing any recording to that track... "You" may choose to not do it of course, but it shows them that this possibility exists.
As we all know, in reaper you can do things many different ways... but I have to draw the line[s] somewhere for the intent of a 'newbie' guide, ..right?

3. On page 11, in the part where you want to record the audio, you tell them to Arm the audio tracks and press record. But I could not find anywhere in the document where you told them that the record mode for those tracks must be set to record Output. If it's in there, it's buried, and I think that needs to be highlighted.

--- oh damn... that was in there an not it's not... sh*t... the perils of late night work, eh? Totally needed and I'll fix that!

You obviously spent some time with this. Very generous of you.

Chapter 2 might be a similar set of instructions for a Drum VSTi, where all the midi is on the VSTi track, with just the audio tracks being separated. I guess that's a little easier, since Reaper will set that up automatically.
--- yeah, maybe... but to tell you the truth, from what I've seen, for a newbie to have reaper do it's 'automatic' thing is not enough for them to begin to understand what reaper did.. or to understand basic routing. Also, for drum vsti's one may or may not want it all on one midi track... but that could be another whole guide.... we'll see.

Thanks very much for your thoughts and comments.... I am a terrible editor and proof reader of my own work!
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:32 PM   #4
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Hi Hopi - Many thanks for the work you are doing in this, it sure does help to put us Newbies on the right path and shows us more possibilities that Reaper presents. I keep on Learning!!!
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:46 AM   #5
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The PDF has been revised and is updated on the stash as of now...

Even if you have dl'd this you might want to replace it with the new version.

There may well still be more corrections and revisions yet to do, but I think this one is better.

DS... perhaps you'd give it a proof reading?
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:45 AM   #6
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... are you sure ?
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:16 AM   #7
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very nice!
Cheers
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:43 PM   #8
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Sorry to drag up an old thread, just didn't see the point in starting a new one for the same topic.....

Anyways, HOPI the guide is awesome, really helped me a lot. I just have a question about the setting up of MIDI channels for each of the sends as well as the audio receive channels. Do I NEED to do this? I managed to set my drums up using only the VST channel, sending each output to my audio receive channels respectively and recording my midi onto the VST channel. This seemed to work out fine but I want to know if I'm missing something fundamental or is this just another "reaper has many way" kinda thing. It seems easier for my work flow, but thinking it must be necessary to have individual MIDI tracks or you wouldn't have gone to the bother of explaining it all like that.... Hope I make sense....

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itch View Post
Anyways, HOPI the guide is awesome, really helped me a lot.
the answer to the above question will interest me as well? (but it's great that it's finally starting to work! )
i have to read/do things a few times for it to sink in!!
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itch View Post
Sorry to drag up an old thread, just didn't see the point in starting a new one for the same topic.....

Anyways, HOPI the guide is awesome, really helped me a lot. I just have a question about the setting up of MIDI channels for each of the sends as well as the audio receive channels. Do I NEED to do this? I managed to set my drums up using only the VST channel, sending each output to my audio receive channels respectively and recording my midi onto the VST channel. This seemed to work out fine but I want to know if I'm missing something fundamental or is this just another "reaper has many way" kinda thing. It seems easier for my work flow, but thinking it must be necessary to have individual MIDI tracks or you wouldn't have gone to the bother of explaining it all like that.... Hope I make sense....

yeah... you make sense... but can you make dollars!

no you don't have to do it that way... there can be reasons for it and also reason for 'not it'...

In the guide we are aimed at diff instruments so it makes more sense there...

for just drums perhaps no need...

it's just gonna depend on how YOU want to work...

In the guide we try to present the basics so anyone can begin to understand what is possible...
...so consider this... even with instruments in a vsti...

you 'could' do it all on one midi track... say with a sax, a bass, a string, a brass, etc. and instead of diff midi tracks, you could have each instrument's notes set to a diff midi channel... you see?

If your drum vsti can recieve on mulit midi chans, you could do the same there [or not]... like kick on midi chan 1, snare on 2, etc.....

In short I'd say if you are now getting what you want, ...great. And just keep the other possibilities in mind for later.

the more you work with these basic concepts the more fluid you become with them and can conive all sort of interesting variations.

Said another way: get comfy with the basics and then keep saying, "ok, now what if I did ....."
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:31 AM   #11
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A veryBIGthank you Hopi for your tutorial,template,etc, but most of all your PATIENCE my mind is flying every which way with "what if's" thanks again man!
BTW, i'm using inde free for drums & it sounds awesome!!
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:46 AM   #12
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I hadn't considered that the guide uses different instruments - doh! It's so easy to edit a drum pattern on one MIDI track, but that would be nightmare if it was 3 or 4 string parts - I hear ya!
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:54 AM   #13
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Default great q... great a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itch View Post
Sorry to drag up an old thread, just didn't see the point in starting a new one for the same topic.....

Is there any way this could be illustrated? (ideally with video capture... It seems I have to imitate for the self-'educate' bit to work!)

shy bairns get nowt'
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:56 AM   #14
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Default Still having problems hearing audio in project

Thanks for the template and project guide. I am still having problems "hearing: the audio output on the Organ and Sax parts.

I have set up the routing as indicated in the tutorial (I am sure I missed something). Ok here goes. Vst sampletank track 1 recv's midi just fine from all Midi to sound tracks (tracks 2,4,6). Midi to sound track 2 (bass) records midi, monitors audio and its associated audio track (track (3)records the output of Sampletank. All Ok when recording the bass part.

Not so with the others. For example: Arm track 4 (midi to Sound)Kebyd controller set to Midi Ch 2. Records midi information just fine but no audio monitoring (yes record monitoring button is green)and then it plays bakc the Bass not the organ. Sampletank showws outputs 3/4 as active but no sound? Help.

I have been over the routing repeatedly but I am just missing something. It seems like the output of the Sampletank is improperly routed or its master is turned down as sampletank outs 3/4 show playback but no sound.

Any help appreciated.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:29 AM   #15
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Default Thurgood again with screenshots

I hope these help
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TCP vsti route.jpg (67.2 KB, 192 views)
File Type: jpg Sampletank route.jpg (64.7 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpg VSTI route 1.jpg (49.7 KB, 192 views)
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:52 AM   #16
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^^^^
Can you post your problem in a new thread, and attach full size screenshots (I cannot see the details in the ones attached to above post
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:41 AM   #17
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Sure I will gladly open a new thread. I do not know how to make larger screen shots, I was lucky to get those. Can you tell me how? BTW your advice on this topic has been a great help. I will post late today once I finish up a few chores. Thanks
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #18
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let's just take one of the tracks for starters... perhaps what we do will apply to the other:

OK your second intrument in ST, is getting midi OK as I read your post, correct?

but you do not hear the output of it as audio?

I can't see the screen shots very well either... but I assume in ST you have that set to output audio on 3/4

now I assume you have another track in reaper set to receive from the VSTi [ST]... we need to see very clearly what the IO settings are for that track. Get a free screen capture tool... google is your friend for that.

Now that audio track in reaper should have it's IO like so:

It should be a receive from VSTi ST, with Audio 3/4 > 1/2 and Midi NONE.

3/4 is what ST sends to it and 1/2 is what your Master Track uses to output sound.

In the above case, the "1/2" refers to your audio card outs, but the 3/4 refers to what ST sends to that track.
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:57 AM   #19
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Thanks Hopi,

This tutorial was very very intuitive and the perfect pace for a newbie!

The one complication I seem to behaving is getting my midi keyboard ( Akia 49 ) to play the second and third instruments ( rather the "midi to sound 2 &3 ) in reaper. Iam able to trigger the both of them within ST, using its keyboard, but not from my midi keyboard.

I'm sure it probably a silly little fix but for the life of me I cannot fix it.

if anyone know what I'm doing wrong please HELPER! :-)

THANKS IN ADVANCE.

Last edited by House W.; 12-04-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by House W. View Post
Thanks Hopi,

This tutorial was very very intuitive and the perfect pace for a newbie!

The one complication I seem to behaving is getting my midi keyboard ( Akia 49 ) to play the second and third instruments ( rather the "midi to sound 2 &3 ) in reaper. Iam able to trigger the both of them within ST, using its keyboard, but not from my midi keyboard.

I'm sure it probably a silly little fix but for the life of me I cannot fix it.

if anyone know what I'm doing wrong please HELPER! :-)

THANKS IN ADVANCE.
I am not completely sure about what your problem actually is, but I'd suspect it is in the routing...

If you are doing the way I have said in that pdf guide, you should have one midi track for each instrument and also one audio track for each instrument.

The midi track should be sending to ST Audio>None and MIDI All > xx
where xx is the MIDI channel you see in ST.
Now remember that in ST you can change the MIDI channels for each instrument... so do look there and see what you have.
For example, let's say in ST you have two instruments, the first set to Channel 1 and the other to Channel 2...
Then your MIDI tracks have to match that:
MIDI track One sends MIDI All>1
MIDI track Two sends MIDI All>2

Then also in ST look at the Outputs since that is easy to miss cuz the damn numbers are very small...
Those Outs have to match the sends to the Audio Tracks that are receiving them...
I think this is quite clearly shown in the guide so perhaps study it again and make sure things are set correctly...
You could also post an example reaper project without the wav files to the reaper stash and give us the link to it...
That way DS or myself could have a look and make corrections.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:20 PM   #21
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Thank you, Hopi, for all the work you put into this. It would take me some time to consider this much information.
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:38 PM   #22
House W.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I am not completely sure about what your problem actually is, but I'd suspect it is in the routing...

If you are doing the way I have said in that pdf guide, you should have one midi track for each instrument and also one audio track for each instrument.

The midi track should be sending to ST Audio>None and MIDI All > xx
where xx is the MIDI channel you see in ST.
Now remember that in ST you can change the MIDI channels for each instrument... so do look there and see what you have.
For example, let's say in ST you have two instruments, the first set to Channel 1 and the other to Channel 2...
Then your MIDI tracks have to match that:
MIDI track One sends MIDI All>1
MIDI track Two sends MIDI All>2

Then also in ST look at the Outputs since that is easy to miss cuz the damn numbers are very small...
Those Outs have to match the sends to the Audio Tracks that are receiving them...
I think this is quite clearly shown in the guide so perhaps study it again and make sure things are set correctly...
You could also post an example reaper project without the wav files to the reaper stash and give us the link to it...
That way DS or myself could have a look and make corrections.
Ok, I'll study it some more and see what mistakes I'm making. If I'm still having issues I'll post an example.

Again, thank you for your help!
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:26 PM   #23
House W.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I am not completely sure about what your problem actually is, but I'd suspect it is in the routing...

If you are doing the way I have said in that pdf guide, you should have one midi track for each instrument and also one audio track for each instrument.

The midi track should be sending to ST Audio>None and MIDI All > xx
where xx is the MIDI channel you see in ST.
Now remember that in ST you can change the MIDI channels for each instrument... so do look there and see what you have.
For example, let's say in ST you have two instruments, the first set to Channel 1 and the other to Channel 2...
Then your MIDI tracks have to match that:
MIDI track One sends MIDI All>1
MIDI track Two sends MIDI All>2

Then also in ST look at the Outputs since that is easy to miss cuz the damn numbers are very small...
Those Outs have to match the sends to the Audio Tracks that are receiving them...
I think this is quite clearly shown in the guide so perhaps study it again and make sure things are set correctly...
You could also post an example reaper project without the wav files to the reaper stash and give us the link to it...
That way DS or myself could have a look and make corrections.
I got it to work!!! I wasnt checking the 'Master/parent' box in ALL the audio I/O settings and unchecking them in ALL the midi ones. Also I it helps to unarm the ST VSTi track at the end of it all...unless you want to a layered instrument sound. Which isn't a bad thing:-). Now i can get back to making music:-D

Thanks again! You're awesome:-))

Last edited by House W.; 12-05-2014 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:16 AM   #24
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Ah ..good then... glad you got it to work and hopefully learned some more along the way so that you feel 'in control' of what you want to do now...

thanks for the kind words but remember what Forest Gump said, "Awesome is as Awesome does"..
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