Old 04-17-2012, 08:07 AM   #1
lipbeats
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Default multiple bcf2000 with undo button?

Hello reaper world, im new to the forums and reaper and and any assistance you could provide would be awesome.

Im thinking about getting 2-3 bcf2000's.
1-2 for the control room in a studio, and 1 for the recording room.

I see there are many posts about the bcf2000's, but none that i can find that answer my questions before a purchase.

The most important features are:

1. UNDO button - this is a must and must work in control room and recording room. it is workflow essential to me. so important its the reason why i upgraded from a axiom to axiom pro midi keyboard for fl studio. (qwerty keyboard command shortcuts assigned to triggerpads)

2. transport controls (play, stop, rec)

3. Individual track mute/solo/arm record

4. Faders

5. Panning

6. Banking between faders (groups of 8)

the controller in the rec room and control room can "match" (for lack of a better term). i.e. they operate the exact same functions. just a mirror of the other.
i do not need any support for VST instruments or anything like that...Just general stuff for audio recording only. I need to be able to run from the control room when im recording other people, but then have one in the other room to run by myself. that way i do not need any additional engineer in the studio to record drums, acoustic guitar work ect. all by myself.
If i can get 1 working in both places, then i dont need to run a second qwerty keyboard and mouse to the rec room, and can run it all from the bcf2000, which would be super awesome.

having 2 in the control room, and 1 in the recording room that matches the 1st one in the control room would be be a dream come true....but i would most certainly settle for 1 in each room.

I just dont know if its possible, AND which setup does it? there seems to be quite a few options (Coerce setup,Klinke's plugin,Clerik, MCU ect) and not sure which will really give me what i want.

I really really appreciate any help.

running windows 7 if that info is needed.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:35 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by lipbeats View Post
Hello reaper world, im new to the forums and reaper and and any assistance you could provide would be awesome.

Im thinking about getting 2-3 bcf2000's.
1-2 for the control room in a studio, and 1 for the recording room.

I see there are many posts about the bcf2000's, but none that i can find that answer my questions before a purchase.

The most important features are:

1. UNDO button - this is a must and must work in control room and recording room. it is workflow essential to me. so important its the reason why i upgraded from a axiom to axiom pro midi keyboard for fl studio. (qwerty keyboard command shortcuts assigned to triggerpads)

2. transport controls (play, stop, rec)

3. Individual track mute/solo/arm record

4. Faders

5. Panning

6. Banking between faders (groups of 8)

the controller in the rec room and control room can "match" (for lack of a better term). i.e. they operate the exact same functions. just a mirror of the other.
i do not need any support for VST instruments or anything like that...Just general stuff for audio recording only. I need to be able to run from the control room when im recording other people, but then have one in the other room to run by myself. that way i do not need any additional engineer in the studio to record drums, acoustic guitar work ect. all by myself.
If i can get 1 working in both places, then i dont need to run a second qwerty keyboard and mouse to the rec room, and can run it all from the bcf2000, which would be super awesome.

having 2 in the control room, and 1 in the recording room that matches the 1st one in the control room would be be a dream come true....but i would most certainly settle for 1 in each room.

I just dont know if its possible, AND which setup does it? there seems to be quite a few options (Coerce setup,Klinke's plugin,Clerik, MCU ect) and not sure which will really give me what i want.

I really really appreciate any help.

running windows 7 if that info is needed.
I don't know for sure about the other approaches, but I'm using a Pure data patch between my BCR-2000 and REAPER using its OSC control surface support, allowing me to do pretty much *anything* REAPER can do (e.g. you pick a button on the BCF, I'll show you how it can be made to trigger the undo function in REAPER). Certainly all the stuff you mention. Go get them, they're great bang/buck (although a little noisy, check it out before you buy them if it would bother you). I'm probably going to get at least one BCF-2000 myself too.

Btw (OT), how is audio recording general, or more general than using VSTs? I never use audio recording in REAPER, but always use VSTs. But never mind.

And welcome here!
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipbeats View Post
Hello reaper world, im new to the forums and reaper and and any assistance you could provide would be awesome.

Im thinking about getting 2-3 bcf2000's.
1-2 for the control room in a studio, and 1 for the recording room.

I see there are many posts about the bcf2000's, but none that i can find that answer my questions before a purchase.

The most important features are:

1. UNDO button - this is a must and must work in control room and recording room. it is workflow essential to me. so important its the reason why i upgraded from a axiom to axiom pro midi keyboard for fl studio. (qwerty keyboard command shortcuts assigned to triggerpads)

2. transport controls (play, stop, rec)

3. Individual track mute/solo/arm record

4. Faders

5. Panning

6. Banking between faders (groups of 8)

the controller in the rec room and control room can "match" (for lack of a better term). i.e. they operate the exact same functions. just a mirror of the other.
i do not need any support for VST instruments or anything like that...Just general stuff for audio recording only. I need to be able to run from the control room when im recording other people, but then have one in the other room to run by myself. that way i do not need any additional engineer in the studio to record drums, acoustic guitar work ect. all by myself.
If i can get 1 working in both places, then i dont need to run a second qwerty keyboard and mouse to the rec room, and can run it all from the bcf2000, which would be super awesome.

having 2 in the control room, and 1 in the recording room that matches the 1st one in the control room would be be a dream come true....but i would most certainly settle for 1 in each room.

I just dont know if its possible, AND which setup does it? there seems to be quite a few options (Coerce setup,Klinke's plugin,Clerik, MCU ect) and not sure which will really give me what i want.

I really really appreciate any help.

running windows 7 if that info is needed.
Hi,

Welcome..I have to go, but search for nofish's setup he has that bcf down.
for the rec room i would suggest a mobile device..iphone,,esp if u already have one. search osc here.Subz Touch osc and theres divergens lemur one.

Gotta run

Guido
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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Since you're on Windows, I believe Klinke's solution would be the simplest out of the box. There is no setup.

Downsides - if you must have multiple devices, you have to use the older .64 version rather than the newer .8 version. But a lot of the newer features are for plugin control that you're not interested in, so the .64 version would be fine.

A downside - while there are buttons for all the commands you mentioned, several of them are mapped to a 2-button combination. I don't know if you are familiar with the BCF or not, but it has an "upper shift" and "lower shift" button. So, in Klinke's setup, you can press a single button and mute a channel, but to solo it you have to press hold "upper shift" while pressing the button.

I'm not sure how nofish's setup is out of the box - I suspect it is similar. I also suspect that nofish's method is more customizable if you care to go that route.

The biggest downside for me, regardless of the software used, is that the BCF has no screen. It's not like an MCU. I do like my BCF, but if I had it to do over again, I would probably have gone for the Mackie, which has dedicated buttons for many more functions, and also has the screen.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:07 PM   #5
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The biggest downside for me, regardless of the software used, is that the BCF has no screen.
The BCF2000 certainly does have a very good screen to aid navigation and parameter displays.

bcfview.exe provides an emulation of the Mackie screen for the BCF2000, if you are on windows. There is another one for macs written by a 3rd party dev.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #6
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With the Pd patch I use, also have a GUI for showing parameter names and much more (i.e. parameter remapping and rescaling features that would make AutoMap jealous). If I don't have a second monitor around, I hook up an iPhone or iPad to OSC as well for visual feedback and more controls like XY pads. That eliminates much of the poor display issues. Having individual LCDs for each knob would still be much nicer, of course. But for a BCF I wouldn't mind as much as with a BCR: I'd mainly get a BCF for its faders, doing only one thing: volume. No display needed to indicate that.

Btw, I'm currently working on dynamically changing the individual BCR knob ranges (via SysEx generated on-the-fly) to match the value ranges of the parameters under their current control, which is working out pretty well (although I can't get higher maximum values than 16383 displayed, just a tiny bit too low for a full Hz scale over the audible spectrum). Does anybody know if MCU or Novation AutoMap can do that?
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:44 PM   #7
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The BCF2000 certainly does have a very good screen to aid navigation and parameter displays.

bcfview.exe provides an emulation of the Mackie screen for the BCF2000, if you are on windows. There is another one for macs written by a 3rd party dev.
Yeah, I use that - I even have a hack (with the assistance of Reaperite musicbynumbers) that makes BCFView be the same width as the actual BCF. I position the BCF directly under the monitor, and it kindasorta looks like an lcd display on the unit itself. But it still falls short of the display on the MCU, IMO. Granted, it is vastly cheaper than the MCU...

BTW, does BCFview work with the nofish setup? If not, that's another reason to go with Klinke's version. As much as I wish for a real display, the BCFview is significantly better than nothing.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:10 PM   #8
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Yeah, I use that - I even have a hack (with the assistance of Reaperite musicbynumbers) that makes BCFView be the same width as the actual BCF. I position the BCF directly under the monitor, and it kindasorta looks like an lcd display on the unit itself.
That's exactly wot I did too. And I got the musicnumbers hack.


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But it still falls short of the display on the MCU, IMO. Granted, it is vastly cheaper than the MCU...
I got a MCU a few months ago, the BCF is on the bench as substitute. The only thing you get with the MCU LCD that bcfview.exe hasn't got is the assignment display and the time & beats display so it ain't missin' much.


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BTW, does BCFview work with the nofish setup? If not, that's another reason to go with Klinke's version.
I don't know if the nofish works with bcfview.exe or not as I ain't tried it out. No reason why it shouldn't, so it should do. Klinke's .dll does all I want and a whole lot more. It's a brilliant piece of work.


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As much as I wish for a real display, the BCFview is significantly better than nothing.
Definitely. I've used the BCF2000 for at least seven or eight years with zero problemos, very hardy little critter. MCU is very nice too.

ns
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #9
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BTW, does BCFview work with the nofish setup? If not, that's another reason to go with Klinke's version.
Just to clarify:
I only did a setup for the BCR, never tested it with the BCF. Not sure how well it could be 'adopted' for the BCF.
But it also uses Klinkes extension, I only did the BCR sysex.
Afaik BCView only works with the BCF but I use a similar display emu for my setup (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...97&postcount=1)

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=60110
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:26 PM   #10
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There we have it.

nofish has left the building.

ns
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:37 PM   #11
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There we have it.

nofish has left the building.

ns
This is joke with actually Elvis, no ?
I don't quite get it as non native english speaker, but all I can say is that I'm still here.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:48 PM   #12
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This is joke with actually Elvis, no ?
I don't quite get it as non native english speaker, but all I can say is that I'm still here.
Yes, yes. Englizi Elvis joke in appreciation of your great efforts.



ns

PS nofish is back in the building.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:57 PM   #13
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[...] But it also uses Klinkes extension, I only did the BCR sysex.
Since you're still here () and I'm currently hacking away at doing stuff with the BCR's SysEx, but haven't gotten around to its MCU emulation stuff, I was wondering if you have any interesting tidbits about that posted somewhere, other than the well-documented stuff? No use reinventing the wheel and all that.
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Hey thanks! I had never seen that one. A bit too late now I have rolled my own superior GUI, but definitely still worth taking a look at. Next time I'm on Windows...
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:09 PM   #14
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thx for the quick responses....

I will be having a monitor in the rec room that mirrors one of the monitors in the control room. If i cant get the BCFview to work, no biggie. Wont bother me. dont need it.

also, shift keys wont bother me either. im fine with that.

Im going to build a small cart on wheels that houses the end of a 16-channel snake, as well as a monitor and a BCF2000. then i can just wheel it around the rec room as i please.

the main thing is that i can be in the control room, working with vst's, or have a guitar plugged in direct to line6 pro hd or bass into line 6 lowdown, and then if i need to do shakers, or harmonica, or acoustic guitar ect., that i can just run into the rec room real quick, arm the track from there and go. and be able to undo a bad take and try again. then if it needs to be a stereo take, just arm another track while im in there and do it. I want to prevent myself from having to bounce back and forth between the rooms as much as i can.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:26 AM   #15
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thx for the quick responses....

I will be having a monitor in the rec room that mirrors one of the monitors in the control room. If i cant get the BCFview to work, no biggie. Wont bother me. dont need it.

also, shift keys wont bother me either. im fine with that.

Im going to build a small cart on wheels that houses the end of a 16-channel snake, as well as a monitor and a BCF2000. then i can just wheel it around the rec room as i please.

the main thing is that i can be in the control room, working with vst's, or have a guitar plugged in direct to line6 pro hd or bass into line 6 lowdown, and then if i need to do shakers, or harmonica, or acoustic guitar ect., that i can just run into the rec room real quick, arm the track from there and go. and be able to undo a bad take and try again. then if it needs to be a stereo take, just arm another track while im in there and do it. I want to prevent myself from having to bounce back and forth between the rooms as much as i can.
Hi,

That sounds like a great plan..but..and believe me im no advocate of new tech for the sake of new tek..the third midi controller in the booth...is SCREAMING ixxxx mobile device. Unless i misunderstand your application, it just seems TOo perfect for a iphone/pad setup.Have u seen Subz video or Silent's? Unless u already have the 3 controllers that is.
All the commands that u need to send to Reaper..as u described...and more ..would be accessible. Dammit! Now I want one!^^

Gl..it looks like u are now in good bcf hands.^^

guido
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:41 PM   #16
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Since you're still here () and I'm currently hacking away at doing stuff with the BCR's SysEx, but haven't gotten around to its MCU emulation stuff, I was wondering if you have any interesting tidbits about that posted somewhere, other than the well-documented stuff? No use reinventing the wheel and all that.
Well, as said elsewhere, all I used was the Mackie map here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200801260...ules/MCMap.htm

(apart from the display which is handled via sysex and I haven't looked into that, the actual messages of the Mackie protocol are straightforward pitchbend/note on_off etc. messages)

Any plans to share your BCR/PD Reaper remote stuff btw. ?
I'd be interested in this...
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:01 PM   #17
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let me ask it this way...

do i even need a special install/mod to do what i want?
can i just run the unit in mcu mode and do what i want with multiple units?
or do i have to use a mod to get multiple units to even work?

since i don't need any of the fancy stuff, like getting feedback from vst's, would doing one of the mods be a waste since I'm not going to use it for that anyways?

in my case i just need to arm a track, rec and be able to undo it if i screw up...with 2 units.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:02 PM   #18
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and big thanks to nofish for that link to the mackie control midi map....i have a feeling that will come in handy.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:25 AM   #19
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let me ask it this way...

do i even need a special install/mod to do what i want?
can i just run the unit in mcu mode and do what i want with multiple units?
or do i have to use a mod to get multiple units to even work?

since i don't need any of the fancy stuff, like getting feedback from vst's, would doing one of the mods be a waste since I'm not going to use it for that anyways?

in my case i just need to arm a track, rec and be able to undo it if i screw up...with 2 units.
You can definitely do this with Klinke's v.64 plugin. You might be able to do it with Reaper's native MCU support, but I have never tested. Once you have your units, it will be easy for you to test - and if it doesn't work, it will just be a matter of copying Klinke's stuff into the right folder on your PC. There's no customization you'd need to do.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:01 AM   #20
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Well, as said elsewhere, all I used was the Mackie map here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200801260...ules/MCMap.htm

(apart from the display which is handled via sysex and I haven't looked into that, the actual messages of the Mackie protocol are straightforward pitchbend/note on_off etc. messages)

Any plans to share your BCR/PD Reaper remote stuff btw. ?
I'd be interested in this...
Yes, but when it's (1) cleaned up, (2) documented, (3) (hopefully to some extent) user configurable in a user friendly manner. While my main (i.e. most features) patch is still growing daily in terms of awesome features, and I'm experimenting a lot with different approaches, features, and configurations/layouts/designs, it's way too much in flux for attempting to any of those three things. But I will get around to it some day, in some shape or form, most definitely!

Since this is a much bigger and complex patch, will take some time and effort on my side (and thus patience on behalf of others interested), and I expect many (power) users will want to customize things heavily (probably much more so than I can ever handle in terms of user configurable patches anyway), I am also planning to post a series of smaller examples, tackling isolated problems, like 'how do I use OSC to get MIDI feedback to a remote controller' (done, but needs post-release update), 'how do I bind a keyboard key/Wacom Intuos tablet/MBP touchpad/MBP accelerometer/etc. to an OSC message', 'how do I use OSC for VCA group-style mixing' (PoC done, more advanced PoC update planned), 'how do I add an LFO to the last touched parameter' (halfway done, oops - accidentally deleted it from VCA group example since it wan't relevant there. ). That would hopefully enable REAPER users to learn how to do the relatively easy bits (Pd patching, OSC), and then make the hard decisions (how would you like your setup, sir?) and ideal setup themselves. (I don't think they need my help there, other than some tips and suggestions, if you know what I mean. )
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