Now that Logic have it, can REAPER do without ? Playing live !
Hey, guys,
Noone ignore that with its 10.5 version, Logic has made a leap into the live play with its new Live Loop feature, copying Ableton's Session Mode in a way.
Yet, historically, Logic is a DAW strongly anchored in a linear music production, having over the years acquired a significant market share. In this context, the addition of a live play mode is a strong inflection, especially towards other DAWs:
tomorrow, a DAW without a live game mode will be a DAW lacking a major functionality. What was an option yesterday becomes a necessity today, due to the importance of Logic on the market.
Aleskis, sometimes "good enough to get by" is "the best way to do things in Reaper", don't take it personally. I agree with you. The feature sure would be a standout inclusion natively in Reaper. Just don't count on it happening soon, especially when we have the flashy JSFX to get us by with a good enough option. You'll find this way of thinking all over here not specific to this Ableton feature.
Why bother asking for a coke when you could just grab an RC cola and drink that instead? And then get made to feel silly for preferring the coke instead.
Best,
__________________ 47.8% of statistics are made up.
I won't enter this post specifically, I just want to say that I find it great that most DAWs are now stepping up their game and including features and workflow options from other DAWs (of course with own their unique touch). Linear DAWs start becoming appealing to non-linear folks and non-linear DAWs to linear folks. Eventually the choice of DAW won't be about "here I can do these things easily and there I can do those things" but more "I like the general feel of this DAW so I will be using it without missing possibilities that other DAWs offer". I am looking forward to a day where you can do Post-Production and Recording easily in FL Studio and quick Beatmaking and Live Performance in Pro Tools. A day, where you won't feel the need to own multiple DAWs for multiple purposes but can do everything as quickly in your DAW as other people can do in other DAWs.
This is the reason why I am using Reaper, it lets us users decide what kind of workflow we want and I expect it also to keep leading the path when it comes to giving us all features one might possibly need and customise them to our likings.
/end of fantasy-mode
TLDR: I just love the fact that working in DAWs becomes more and more pleasurable and fast for everybody in every DAW and for every workflow needs and preferences. The competition has great effects on DAW development and Justin , who operates out of passion, just keeps being a step ahead in most things.
In fact, my post was not intended to deplore the lack of a Session mode in REAPER. But rather to say, well, now a major DAW with linear philosophy has gotten into it. And given its market share, what used to be an option before, is probably becoming a standard. And in the long run, the DAW that doesn't get into it will surely suffer from negative criticism from press and users reviews. It doesn't matter what we think about this kind of session view style.
Now a major DAW with linear philosophy has gotten into it. And given its market share, what used to be an option before, is probably becoming a standard. And in the long run, the DAW that doesn't get into it will surely suffer from negative criticism from press and users reviews. It doesn't matter what we think about this kind of session view style.
Precisely. But don't hold your breathe. We have Playtime!
__________________ 47.8% of statistics are made up.
True. But Cockos would be wrong to count on it as a viable alternative. When REAPER opens, it's not natively available. It pays and the price doesn't come back to the development of REAPER. There are functionality's limitations. It's not accessible to assistive technologies such as screen readers. In short, it's good but it's a patch.
For music production it seems like Logic, Live, FL Studio, Cubase really dominate so why not focus on mixing, editing, and post which are areas where Reaper really shines? There’s no great need to compete with them and it seems like the Cockos devs are already spread pretty thin as it is. ie to have Live session view but no OMF/AAF import would be odd. If anything I think Reaper should target the broadcast world and DAWs like Hindenburg more than the electronic music world. :-)
I think gearing Reaper towards a certain type of users would be a pretty bad move.
I myself do music production/composition as well as post production/sounddesign and feel Reaper is the best for all of my needs because its strenght lies in giving users the possibility to set it up for their personal workflow preferences..
So IMO developements for all kinds of users should be encouraged. Reaper, like no other DAW can turn into a fusion of Pro Tools and FL Studio, or Logic and Ableton, we users decide.
The best for Reaper would be to just continue giving us even more options, more customizability, more features, no matter which they want to give us, and leave it to us users to pick out the ones we need and build a workflow with them.
Reaper is not the best for beatmakers, not for edm producers, not for mixing or mastering engineers, not for recording and not for post production or broadcasting guys. The target user is and should remain the nerd is willing to invest time into setting it up to be the best possible DAW for whatever his needs might be.
I think gearing Reaper towards a certain type of users would be a pretty bad move.
No one talked about moving REAPER in a single direction. And Logic isn't just for electronic music producers now that it has a live mode.
Despite alll, adding such a mode simply opens up an additional horizon. In any case, I'm not particularly advocating for adding this feature. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that if the generalist DAW that is Logic goes live, Pro Tools and all the other big one will go live too. And that tomorrow, it will be detrimental for a linear DAW not to have a live mode. It's going to be two sides of the same coin and the transition is underway.
No one talked about moving REAPER in a single direction. And Logic isn't just for electronic music producers now that it has a live mode.
Despite alll, adding such a mode simply opens up an additional horizon. In any case, I'm not particularly advocating for adding this feature. I'm just drawing attention to the fact that if the generalist DAW that is Logic goes live, Pro Tools and all the other big one will go live too. And that tomorrow, it will be detrimental for a linear DAW not to have a live mode. It's going to be two sides of the same coin and the transition is underway.
I agree with you. My comment was referred to nepenthe who said Reaper should focus on mixing, editing and the broadcast world. This would move Reaper towards other DAWs philosphies who used to optimise their DAWs for certain types of users (Ableton & FL for electronic music, Cubase & Logic for scoring, Pro Tools for recording and post etc.) and I think Reaper should remain the DAW that lets the user decide what it should be optimised for.
And to keep this flexibility up the best move would be just to keep adding features for all kinds of users. I myself don't need Live features and would prefer AAF/OMF import a swell, but still I would be just like you happy to see Cockos work on Live features as it would show that they are not targeting a specifc user base but allow all kinds of users to create a fast workflow in Reaper.
And i find Logics move great (as I stated) and would love to see all DAWs follow (Ableton Live for example could work on features that make it more appealing to film composers and FL Studio could work on it's usability for recording).
Logic has made a leap into the live play with its new Live Loop feature, copying Ableton's Session Mode in a way.
Of course Reaper could be used by a decent (3rd party) Reaper extension to join that team. Supposedly just scripting would not be able to do the trick nicely enough. Somebody just would need to get this project started.
(Same is true for doing a "Live instrument" (instead of Live Looping) setup. I did this in a rather usable way with scripts and existing extensions, but I do know that for a decent to-be-spread-widely system a dedicated Reaper extension would be necessary. I'm inclined to do this, but right now I am stuck with the simple attempt to do a miniature Reaper extension at all. )
Justin , who operates out of passion, just keeps being a step ahead in most things.
This is what makes Reaper great !
The infrastructure is way ahead of most others, and the openness / extensibility by 3rd parties is absolutely unique.
So we should not ask Cockos for doing
- enhanced video features like Magix, ...
- enhanced mastering features like ... you name it
- enhanced post production features like ... you name it
- enhanced nonlinear features like Ableton, ...
- enhanced instrument rack features like Camelot, ...
- enhanced remote working features like JamKaZam
- enhanced built in instruments like Cubase
- enhanced potcast producing features like ...
- enhanced whatever features like whatever
but search for guys doing (and maintaining !) the appropriate Reaper extensions (like SWS did with their great stuff.
In any case using the Reaper infrastructure for such would be a lot less work and provide a lot more compatibility and viability than creating a new program from scratch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
And i find Logics move great (as I stated) and would love to see all DAWs follow (Ableton Live for example could work on features that make it more appealing to film composers and FL Studio could work on it's usability for recording).
Reaper is (theoretically) able to follow everywhere given it's unique extensibility
Noone ignore that with its 10.5 version, Logic has made a leap into the live play with its new Live Loop feature, copying Ableton's Session Mode in a way.
Yet, historically, Logic is a DAW strongly anchored in a linear music production, having over the years acquired a significant market share. In this context, the addition of a live play mode is a strong inflection, especially towards other DAWs:
tomorrow, a DAW without a live game mode will be a DAW lacking a major functionality. What was an option yesterday becomes a necessity today, due to the importance of Logic on the market.
I don't care about clip triggering so much, though it would be nice.
Anything to replace the (imo) horrendous "reasamplomatic5000" would be more up my street.
In these forums there are several discussions about free samplers. You might want to search for "Soundfont".
-Michael
Thanks, I tried all the other samplers,and i use some non freeware solutions as well rs5k itself, but I desire for an upgrade of the integrated sampler with up to date drag and drop facilities. Just a wish, anyway.
No external sampler can have something like an “import from arrange” button. For this reason I strongly encourage work being done on either rs5k or any other new sampler if they feel like making one (which I doubt).
For me a native sampler with similar ease of use and flexibility like for example the Tal Sampler would be a dream come true.
No external sampler can have something like an “import from arrange” button. For this reason I strongly encourage work being done on either rs5k or any other new sampler if they feel like making one (which I doubt).
For me a native sampler with similar ease of use and flexibility like for example the Tal Sampler would be a dream come true.
Mix that with dynamic split functionality for automatically chopping and importing samples, and if you wanted to get really fancy use ReaTune to attempt to automatically map by pitch.
It seems Logic is currently ahead of the DAW competition and smoke them all.
Even If it hurts to say.
I'm not a fanboy but it's time to change my old 2007 imac in order to work with LP 10.5.
It seems Logic is currently ahead of the DAW competition and smoke them all.
Even If it hurts to say.
I'm not a fanboy but it's time to change my old 2007 imac in order to work with LP 10.5.
You might want to wait for plugin devs to update their software first. I've had emails from a few asking people not to update until they can fix compatibility.
I would love to see a session view like in Bitwig or Logic inside of Reaper.... (arranger and session view --> side by side)
I already wrote this in the "Reaperton Live" Post but a Session-View isn´t only usable for playing Clips Live or in a DJ setup...
IT IS MUCH MORE, it is an addition to the Arranger View.. it is like a COLOR PALETTE for sound. (mix colors without affecting the painting)
Some usecases linear DAW users would also use this feature:
- one can store alternative riffs in there and still keep the arrangment clean.
- store unused midi/audio items without cluttering the arrangment
- one can sound design/jam/mix/write "on top of the song" in a 1,2,8,... Bar loop without affecting the song AND as soon as it is ready it can be inject into the fixed structure of the song.
- having multiple audio clips for a single track is like "take system" -- additional to the already excisting takesystem
There are so much more points that could be listed who would benefit ALL Reaper users not only electronic musicians and DJs..
PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THAT THIS FEATURE IS NOT ONLY FOR LIVE USE!!! See it more as a color palette where you can mix colors without destroying the painting.
In my workflow (electronic music) in need to sound-design one sound after another into the slowly growing song... having a session-view helps with this task immensly. It is such a charm having a session view... One thing I really miss all the time since I changed to Reaper.
It seems Logic is currently ahead of the DAW competition and smoke them all.
Even If it hurts to say.
I'm not a fanboy but it's time to change my old 2007 imac in order to work with LP 10.5.
Yeah, Logic is that far ahead you can't even automate or have sends if you need PDC hahahahaha, that smokes everything, right ?
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
Reaper devs should make such a thing, that users can create lots of various session mode variants, not only a single one. What is necessary is per track, independent playheads and looping regions and not only a global one.
Now we have:
global, single playhead, over all tracks, single looping region, same length region
We need:
local, multiple playheads, per single track, loop regions per track, different length regions per track
That's it. Then a few API's letting the rest to the lua guys, and watch what will happen? Reaper can destroy the market even more than it does now.
When I perform live, all I need is the song titles, and sometimes words, and sometimes film.
So I see a full page with more than 300 titles, click 1 or more titles and press play.
The song plays, words show up, and film plays on same screen or different screen.
So I see lyrics, the audience sees the film clip.
I use my own software, co designed since 1988, from Atari, all the way to Windows 10.
It may not be appropriate to mention the name here, out of respect to Justin and team,
except to mention the features I just mention above. Those are the only features me and
many musicians need live.
John
It may not be appropriate to mention the name here, out of respect to Justin and team,
Seems like a greatly extended Jukebox software, hence very different from what Reaper wants to be. I understand there easily is enough space for both of them.
I use my own software, co designed since 1988, from Atari, all the way to Windows 10.
It may not be appropriate to mention the name here, out of respect to Justin and team,
except to mention the features I just mention above. Those are the only features me and
many musicians need live.
John
Please mention the name, no respect will be less to the devs, of course, maximum respect to all who put their love and energy here, no matter if devs or users.
Actually Logic has a lot of bugs and annoying behaviors which you are just stuck with and which is why I have moved to Reaper about 1-2 years ago.I wanted to check back with this update just out of curiosity if anything has changed but there comes the next apple surprise: it works only on Mojave or higher.
So I thought screw them, by now I wouldn’t change back from Reaper anyway, so lets just assume Logic users got a few nice new tools to play with.
What I am really jealous about is the new sampler but in Reaper I found ways to do what I would do in a sampler without even using a sampler so yeah.. Reaper :P
What I am really jealous about is the new sampler but in Reaper I found ways to do what I would do in a sampler without even using a sampler so yeah.. Reaper :P
Can you give a few precise examples how and where you are using those techniques?
Now that Logic have it, can REAPER do without ? Playing live !
Linear Mode
