Windows 10 disaster

[Steviebone]

I'm not going to rehash all of my Windows 10 bashing here again, no need.

But when I see posts like this it reinforces my decision to make my DAW a closed system. It does one thing and one thing only, it doesn't need to be updated and it doesn't need to be online. I have other computers for those uses. Because of this I never have to worry about this issue even if it is statistically improbable.

My own experience has taught me that these experiences are extremely stressful and that they can be avoided. You don't expect your keyboard to go online nor your 24 track tape recorder. Why do you need your DAW to constantly be online and having its underlying operating system updated without your request if the system is working as expected?

I have not only lost valuable time dealing with these ridiculous problems, I have lost valuable work, something which to me is inexcusable when it is totally avoidable.

I am not a Windows 10 fan, never have been. But regardless of which operating system you choose to use, if you want to avoid these stressful pains in the ass I still say consider making your DAW a closed system and using other computers for your other needs.

[Coachz]

I like being online and will continue to be but it can be a pisser for sure. I'll keep doing updates too.

[ivansc]

DONT DONT DONT keep trying to install 2004. It is fubar. Even Microsoft have stated this. Apparently they are "working on it" but in the meantime go for 1903 or 1909. Both work fine.

I am not at all sure, but I suspect that any current Win10 issues ARE down to trying - successfully or not - to install that POS masquerading as 2004. FWIW I finally tracked down the disastrous mess I got after a failed update last year down to an unsuccessful attempt by windows to install an early version of 2004.

Amazes me that they haven`t simply removed 2004 from stuff that is available to the regular customers. This has been going on for months. especially if you are using their pre-release stuff like I was. WAS/

Originally Posted by Coachz

This is the 3rd time 2204 update has failed. I sure don't want to do a fresh install as it would take me a couple of days to reinstall everything. I'm the organization !

I changed it to Enabled to tell it to include drivers and rebooted but it still thinks it's not supposed to.

Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update
Double-click the Do not include drivers with Windows Updates policy.
Select the Disabled option on the top-left.

I had to set it to disabled and then back to Not Configured to get it to go away.

[STOP]

My Windows taskbar was completly messed up after 2004 update. The only workaround I found was to create a new user and move everything to that new_user.

[mccrabney]

Originally Posted by STOP

My Windows taskbar was completly messed up after 2004 update. The only workaround I found was to create a new user and move everything to that new_user.

glib reply: the windows taskbar has been completely messed up ever since win 8. use classicshell

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

glib reply: the windows taskbar has been completely messed up ever since win 8. use classicshell

Agreed. It's clear that someone in development said we need to make this work on cell phones and the developer said and what about desktops and the management said screw em.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by Coachz

I like being online and will continue to be but it can be a pisser for sure. I'll keep doing updates too.

Why do you need to have your DAW online? I'm just curious (not knocking you). Can't you do your surfing and other Internet related activities on a different machine? Have you ever had your DAW go down and have to spend many stressful hours trying to recover?

My guess is that if you had, you might think differently. I've had two occasions where I spent many hours working the problem. In one case several days. I keep multiple backups but restoring a large DAW set up can be time-consuming even with images, and you always run the risk of something going wrong. Also, any work you have done since the last backup is lost.

Even with my DAW off-line I still make multiple levels of backup every day. But I rest easy knowing that at least I won't have my entire life turned upside down because of something someone else decided to do that has nothing to do with what I'm doing. It's easy enough for me to keep a laptop or something else in the studio that is on Wi-Fi or connected to the Internet for those times when I need to connect to look something up. But my DAW itself stays isolated. It's not even connected to the LAN until I need it to be.

And I have learned the hard way that in order to do truly protected against disaster you must keep multiple levels of backups and you must have different types of backups. And even more importantly, you must test them before you need them. I could write reams on backup issues alone. My guess here is that most people here are doing it wrong or at the very least insufficiently. Simply running a backup program, image or file by file, once in a while will not protect you 100% of the time. And the biggest mistake most of them make is they don't plan for having to restore to a new or upgraded computer. But that's a whole other thread, lol.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by Steviebone

Why do you need to have your DAW online? I'm just curious (not knocking you). Can't you do your surfing and other Internet related activities on a different machine? Have you ever had your DAW go down and have to spend many stressful hours trying to recover?

My guess is that if you had, you might think differently. I've had two occasions where I spent many hours working the problem. In one case several days. I keep multiple backups but restoring a large DAW set up can be time-consuming even with images, and you always run the risk of something going wrong. Also, any work you have done since the last backup is lost.

Even with my DAW off-line I still make multiple levels of backup every day. But I rest easy knowing that at least I won't have my entire life turned upside down because of something someone else decided to do that has nothing to do with what I'm doing. It's easy enough for me to keep a laptop or something else in the studio that is on Wi-Fi or connected to the Internet for those times when I need to connect to look something up. But my DAW itself stays isolated. It's not even connected to the LAN until I need it to be.

And I have learned the hard way that in order to do truly protected against disaster you must keep multiple levels of backups and you must have different types of backups. And even more importantly, you must test them before you need them. I could write reams on backup issues alone. My guess here is that most people here are doing it wrong or at the very least insufficiently. Simply running a backup program, image or file by file, once in a while will not protect you 100% of the time. And the biggest mistake most of them make is they don't plan for having to restore to a new or upgraded computer. But that's a whole other thread, lol.

I keep my DAW online 24/7, and yes, I have had some catastrophic failures. Ironically, not from being online, and the being online was what made the recovery easier (software, plugins, etc)
I hear you regarding the backups. I use multiple brands of image backups, test them, do audio file backups, and everything is at minimum double redundant, sometimes triple (and on top of that, just started an overnight online backup service for my DAW). The rule I had drilled into me was:
No matter how many and how thorough of backups you do, if one is not offsite, you are not even doing backups.

[lizzard]

Originally Posted by Steviebone

Why do you need to have your DAW online? I'm just curious (not knocking you). Can't you do your surfing and other Internet related activities on a different machine? Have you ever had your DAW go down and have to spend many stressful hours trying to recover?

My guess is that if you had, you might think differently. I've had two occasions where I spent many hours working the problem. In one case several days. I keep multiple backups but restoring a large DAW set up can be time-consuming even with images, and you always run the risk of something going wrong. Also, any work you have done since the last backup is lost.

Even with my DAW off-line I still make multiple levels of backup every day. But I rest easy knowing that at least I won't have my entire life turned upside down because of something someone else decided to do that has nothing to do with what I'm doing. It's easy enough for me to keep a laptop or something else in the studio that is on Wi-Fi or connected to the Internet for those times when I need to connect to look something up. But my DAW itself stays isolated. It's not even connected to the LAN until I need it to be.

And I have learned the hard way that in order to do truly protected against disaster you must keep multiple levels of backups and you must have different types of backups. And even more importantly, you must test them before you need them. I could write reams on backup issues alone. My guess here is that most people here are doing it wrong or at the very least insufficiently. Simply running a backup program, image or file by file, once in a while will not protect you 100% of the time. And the biggest mistake most of them make is they don't plan for having to restore to a new or upgraded computer. But that's a whole other thread, lol.

I just hardware clone my daw 1tbssd to another identical drive and swap back and forth weekly with another copy on a spinner when i get around to it .

This has not let me down yet and ssd has really sped up the process.

No reason for win 10 but as time goes by and it get less reliant on updates and marketing bot like information gathering intrusions are snuffed out ..who knows ?

[Coachz]

I stay online because I get a ton of utility out of it. Any problems are worth it to me. I have 30 years of computer experience so I'm ok with the issues that can come from it.

[ajaym]

Not a lot of people know this, but if you use the 'disk2vhd' utility (from MS sysinternals) you can make a VHD file which is a perfect sector copy of the source drive. That VHD file can then be mounted on any Windows machine by just right-clicking from File Explorer. VHD files are intended for use with Hyper-V virtual machines but can be a handy way of backing *everything* up in one go, to a large external drive.

[Coachz]

I was buying a little computer today at my local computer repair store. It's this tiny Lenovo about the size of half a laptop wide and about 2 in tall. 215 bucks got me this box with 8 gigs of RAM and it's plenty fast for doing simple word excel internet browsing. I had the Monitor and keyboard so it's pretty sweet. I had some extra speakers because the one in it is too quiet that's the only thing I have to give it so far.

Anyways he was telling me about a Windows show hide utility that apparently lets you flag bad update so they'll never be installed again. Might be interesting

https://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-...ing-windows-10

[Coachz]

He also mentioned that one possibility for losing USB drivers was Windows being set for fast boot up and not loading all drivers. I doubt that that's the reason but it's another thing to look at. He recommended to try disabling the fast boot up


https://www.tenforums.com/general-su...t-visable.html

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by richie43

I keep my DAW online 24/7, and yes, I have had some catastrophic failures. Ironically, not from being online, and the being online was what made the recovery easier (software, plugins, etc)
I hear you regarding the backups. I use multiple brands of image backups, test them, do audio file backups, and everything is at minimum double redundant, sometimes triple (and on top of that, just started an overnight online backup service for my DAW). The rule I had drilled into me was:
No matter how many and how thorough of backups you do, if one is not offsite, you are not even doing backups.

Wisdom.

There are many different types of backups. Each one of them serves a different purpose. Image backups work well to restore operating systems. But if they are not done with a universal restore program you will likely not be able to restore an image properly to a different machine or machine that has major hardware changes.

File by file backups can also be useful when needing to recover only a few files although this is less of an issue now that good backup programs allow you to mount images properly.

Cloning is a good way to recover quickly. Although if you are using larger drives the backup process may take a while.

Mirrors can protect against drive failure and keep you running in the middle of a session. They won't protect you from viruses, ransomware or accidental deletions though. Straight file copies are good for that.

To truly protect, any backups need to have copies that are stored off-line either on external drives that are normally powered off/disconnected and/or in online repositories. My problem with online repositories is the upload speeds to most of the ones I've tried are still pathetic. So keeping very large images online continually updated is problematic. I also would prefer not to trust third-parties with my content. But to protect against fire, theft and other common problems, to be truly protected you must have a copy of your backups offsite somewhere.

Lastly, most people never bother to test their backup plans. You don't truly know if you are backed up if you haven't tried to do a recovery from scratch. This is a major pain in the ass and most people won't do it, but it can also save you a great deal of heartache if when you have to recover it's not your first time going through the process. Usually, whenever I tested backup plans initially I fond a driver or something that was required that I didn't have set aside. It's a good idea to go through the process and make notes so that when you are in the middle of a disaster you can proceed with your recovery stress-free and well prepared.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by lizzard

I just hardware clone my daw 1tbssd to another identical drive and swap back and forth weekly with another copy on a spinner when i get around to it .

This has not let me down yet and ssd has really sped up the process.

No reason for win 10 but as time goes by and it get less reliant on updates and marketing bot like information gathering intrusions are snuffed out ..who knows ?

This will work until you need to restore to a different motherboard or processor.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by ajaym

Not a lot of people know this, but if you use the 'disk2vhd' utility (from MS sysinternals) you can make a VHD file which is a perfect sector copy of the source drive. That VHD file can then be mounted on any Windows machine by just right-clicking from File Explorer. VHD files are intended for use with Hyper-V virtual machines but can be a handy way of backing *everything* up in one go, to a large external drive.

Good idea. Not a complete solution but definitely another good tool for the arsenal. Of course it sounds like you would need a bootable Windows machine handy to recover, right?

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by Coachz

He also mentioned that one possibility for losing USB drivers was Windows being set for fast boot up and not loading all drivers. I doubt that that's the reason but it's another thing to look at. He recommended to try disabling the fast boot up


https://www.tenforums.com/general-su...t-visable.html

I did have a problem once sometime ago that was solved by disabling fast boot. I don't remember exactly what it was, might have had something to do with a USB device ... Computers, especially those with SSD, boot so quickly now that I don't see much advantage to having fast boot enabled anyway.

[Coachz]

Just did a fresh win10 install from a flash drive and was able to get all the latest updates and using my microsoft live account it even found activation. So now I just have a couple of days reconfiguring everything. Upgrading from win7 to win 8 to win 10 worked before but it got where it could not update and no easy fix. Now I'm current again. Yay.

[richie43]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Just did a fresh win10 install from a flash drive and was able to get all the latest updates and using my microsoft live account it even found activation. So now I just have a couple of days reconfiguring everything. Upgrading from win7 to win 8 to win 10 worked before but it got where it could not update and no easy fix. Now I'm current again. Yay.

Wow! Go you!

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Just did a fresh win10 install from a flash drive and was able to get all the latest updates and using my microsoft live account it even found activation. So now I just have a couple of days reconfiguring everything. Upgrading from win7 to win 8 to win 10 worked before but it got where it could not update and no easy fix. Now I'm current again. Yay.

If you check back in the archives on here, you will see that I had exactly the same situation about 6 or 8 months ago.
And with the 2004 update it resurfaced, but this time I was ready for it & cancelled the update.

Glad you got sorted out OK! Kinda hurts, doesn`t it?

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by ivansc

If you check back in the archives on here, you will see that I had exactly the same situation about 6 or 8 months ago.
And with the 2004 update it resurfaced, but this time I was ready for it & cancelled the update.

Glad you got sorted out OK! Kinda hurts, doesn`t it?

It was a pain in the ass. I had an extra 400 gig SATA external drive that I wanted to boot off of and then clone it over to my SSD but of course Windows said it wasn't a bootable device to install onto for whatever stupid reason. So I went back and forth with acronis images and I still have another days worth of installations to do to get back to normal but I have a session today so we're using the old acronis image. Nothing a bunch of money can't solve

[Coachz]

The latest Windows 10 fun was I had space around all of my windows even when I dragged them out to fill the screen. It seems Microsoft is doing more stupid that you can fix through the registry. All fixed.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-4e8250d10b78

[ivansc]

An observation: The content of this thread highlights one of the perennial I.T. problems since day one.

The people who do the design & coding are generally unable to express their intent or explain how things are designed to work in layman`s terms. The end users don`t understand Geek Speek.

At one time, my wife and I were seriously considering starting a consultancy to offer translation services between the two factions. We decided it would be too much hard work convincing the financial folks that spending money on this would be justifiable.

Thirty years on, same old same old.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by ivansc

An observation: The content of this thread highlights one of the perennial I.T. problems since day one.

The people who do the design & coding are generally unable to express their intent or explain how things are designed to work in layman`s terms. The end users don`t understand Geek Speek.

At one time, my wife and I were seriously considering starting a consultancy to offer translation services between the two factions. We decided it would be too much hard work convincing the financial folks that spending money on this would be justifiable.

Thirty years on, same old same old.

Back in the day, as a programmer I was tasked to write owners manuals for several of my projects. I concur that this is much harder than it might seem. One of the problems is that as the creator of something you have a familiarity with the finished product that your end-users will not have.

I ran into the same situation with presentations to potential clients and/or other advertising development. I once created a tutorial video and while working on polish we were surprised to find out that most of the people in the initial focus groups we showed the presentation to (with no prior concept of its intent) failed to understand the primary message. It took several iterations working with blank slates as test subjects before we could ask the focus group what the primary message was, and get an appropriate response.

When something is already intimately familiar to you it is often easy to overlook things that are not at all obvious to someone starting at ground zero.

The good news is that now that we have broadband with sufficient bandwidth, something I didn't have back in the day, you at least have the advantage of show and tell. Screen video can go a long way to filling in the translation gap of print only.

[Coachz]

Many technologies require learning lots of information which most humans don't want to do unless they are very motivated. I'm going to be a poll manager and the manual is 70 pages of information that I need to know. These are not flowers to be picked but mountains to be climbed.

[Coachz]

My computer is trying to commit suicide today. I had gone into the BIOS and enabled the LAN. After that everything went downhill. The computer would not boot off of the 256gb SSD that it has been running off of. It hangs at verifying DMI pool data and says a disk read error occurred, press Ctrl alt and delete to restart. I have a wireless USB keyboard and mouse that up till now I've had no problem getting into the BIOS or hitting F12 and booting off of a CD or USB device. Now I can't even do that. I change the batteries in the keyboard just to make sure and even tested it on another computer and it's fine of course

I have tried clearing the BIOS with the button on the back of the motherboard and I have replaced the battery in the Bios because at one point it said CMOS checksum error. My plan tomorrow is to get a PS2 keyboard and see if that helps at all for getting into the BIOS as I'm running out of ideas. I have a Cronus Drive images but it can't even find the drives now because the BIOS seems to be hosed. Open any ideas as always. Was not a good day

I will so unplugged all drives and plugged in a single rotating drive that is known good and the BIOS still won't come up. When I did the clear bias it came up with a screen to choose different bios they were last known good but the keyboard has no effect so I'm unable to choose anything.

GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R motherboard

[lizzard]

Often we think we may have fixed something when we may have broken something else .

It could take several boots for the prolbem to become visible.

Win 10 still has problems as well as spy ware type apps that are not in our interest.

The process of hardware cloning helps to some degree but requires that a third back up be made called tweaks .

I have difficulty understanding the way some defend their wrong decisions that were only made from ignorance , and perpetuated by the deceptive practices of large software companies .

While we accept their attempts and even defend their failures it will not change.

Hardly any one can afford to write clean code any more and rely on libraries from the big makers that have many misunderstood functions.
Thats a big part of the problem that will be very slow to change .

[Steviebone]

I know I tend to drone on and on again about the pitfalls of Windows 10 but it seems that very seldom there goes a day or two that I don't run into someone with unexpected problems on that platform. Very sorry to hear about your troubles, there is nothing more stressful than having everything stop on a dime and having to spend many stressful hours trying to figure out the problem and/or how to recover from it.

So, once again, I will drone on about the benefits of having a closed system for your DAW. Once it works, you unplug it from the Internet (and your LAN except when you must transfer files to another computer on your LAN). Keep image backups and no more worries.

I won't be able to stay on Windows 7 forever but I have made some provisions for that by procuring extra devices for hardware redundancy. That way I won't get caught in that "there's no driver for that old piece of hardware in the newer Windows" conundrum.

Then do all your other Internet stuff, email, graphics design whatever on another machine. Compartmentalization like this minimizes damage when it does occur.

I wish I had some magical insight to your problem, but there are so many things that could cause this that it's difficult to say. Could be a problem with your motherboard, although I've generally had very good luck with Gigabyte stuff.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Steviebone

I know I tend to drone on and on again about the pitfalls of Windows 10 but it seems that very seldom there goes a day or two that I don't run into someone with unexpected problems on that platform. Very sorry to hear about your troubles, there is nothing more stressful than having everything stop on a dime and having to spend many stressful hours trying to figure out the problem and/or how to recover from it.

So, once again, I will drone on about the benefits of having a closed system for your DAW. Once it works, you unplug it from the Internet (and your LAN except when you must transfer files to another computer on your LAN). Keep image backups and no more worries.

I won't be able to stay on Windows 7 forever but I have made some provisions for that by procuring extra devices for hardware redundancy. That way I won't get caught in that "there's no driver for that old piece of hardware in the newer Windows" conundrum.

Then do all your other Internet stuff, email, graphics design whatever on another machine. Compartmentalization like this minimizes damage when it does occur.

I wish I had some magical insight to your problem, but there are so many things that could cause this that it's difficult to say. Could be a problem with your motherboard, although I've generally had very good luck with Gigabyte stuff.

At the moment there is no indication that an outside problem caused this. It could simply be a bad SSD or a bios that has died

[ivansc]

One crucial thing here that you are missing, Steviebone.

The number of individual people out there using PC Windows 10 based machines is enormous.
Far greater than the sum total of those individuals using either Apple MacOS based or Linux based machines.

Logically, this means that there will always be a far greater number of PC/Win10 users that report issues with Win10 than any other operating system.

This does not necessarily mean that the Windows users are stupider than the others, just that if every OS has the same ratio of klutzes and geniuses and all stations in between, you are going to see far more threads like this one coming from Windows-dominated forums.

HTH

[Coachz]

I got my box going after removing the bios battery and power to the pc for 15 minutes. That got me into the bios and I had pictures of all the bios settings so I just reset them to known goods and I'm back. What a pain. The error message Verifying DMI Pool was useless but watching a dozen youtube videos in Hindi helped !!!

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by ivansc

One crucial thing here that you are missing, Steviebone.

The number of individual people out there using PC Windows 10 based machines is enormous.
Far greater than the sum total of those individuals using either Apple MacOS based or Linux based machines.

Logically, this means that there will always be a far greater number of PC/Win10 users that report issues with Win10 than any other operating system.

This does not necessarily mean that the Windows users are stupider than the others, just that if every OS has the same ratio of klutzes and geniuses and all stations in between, you are going to see far more threads like this one coming from Windows-dominated forums.

HTH

Statistically you are correct sir. I concur on your point. I think we both have valid points.

My point is the if you take your DAW and freeze it in working order you eliminate that potential point of failure. Even if it's one out of 1000 or one out of 100,000 or one out of 1 million if it happens to you in a mission critical situation you're in a tough spot. By keeping my system closed I eliminate that potential pitfall however small statistically it may be.

Your point is well taken though, it's always the people with problems that are posting, you're never going to hear from the millions that are happily plugging away. I get that.

It's kind of like what you see on TV. We are constantly being reminded of all of the negative things that are happening in the world, those things that seem to be happening with abandon, when in fact some of these things are statistically lower than they ever have been, like violent crime. Violent crime has actually decreased but that doesn't make it any less devastating to those that suffer it's consequences. And it just appears to be everywhere because that's what gets covered and focused on.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by Coachz

I got my box going after removing the bios battery and power to the pc for 15 minutes. That got me into the bios and I had pictures of all the bios settings so I just reset them to known goods and I'm back. What a pain. The error message Verifying DMI Pool was useless but watching a dozen youtube videos in Hindi helped !!!

Man I almost suggested that but the consequences of doing that can cause other unintended effects so I didn't speak up. Resetting your bios, depending on what hardware is in your machine etc. can be tricky. Glad it worked out for you.

If your machine is older, you should replace the battery while you're at it. It might've been a glitch in the battery supply that caused the glitch in your bios in the first place.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Steviebone

Man I almost suggested that but the consequences of doing that can cause other unintended effects so I didn't speak up. Resetting your bios, depending on what hardware is in your machine etc. can be tricky. Glad it worked out for you.

If your machine is older, you should replace the battery while you're at it. It might've been a glitch in the battery supply that caused the glitch in your bios in the first place.

Thanks, I did replace the battery while I was at it. I'm glad I had pictures of the bios screens because I didn't remember if I had AHCI or Raid set for the drives among many other settings. Whew, I took myself out for a steak for lunch to celebrate. Really wasted an entire day on that.

[alanofoz]

Turned out it wasn't a Windows problem then?

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by alanofoz

Turned out it wasn't a Windows problem then?

Yeah it wasn't a windows problem at all. Pure bios insanity.

[Steviebone]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Thanks, I did replace the battery while I was at it. I'm glad I had pictures of the bios screens because I didn't remember if I had AHCI or Raid set for the drives among many other settings. Whew, I took myself out for a steak for lunch to celebrate. Really wasted an entire day on that.

Good move, yeah if you were to have a BIOS raid setting for example, you could have very easily destroyed your raid if you hadn't known the exact restore settings before hand. It's a good idea to keep a print out somewhere of all your important information about your computer's configuration, not just the bios. I also screen print all my network configuration stuff for example.

Glad you're back up and running!

[Rodulf]

Originally Posted by Elevate Audio

The idea that anyone can have a computer working for years and then one morning you turn it on and it doesn't work because of a Windows update is absolutely ludicrous. And it's not an isolated incident. What other business is allowed to treat it's customers so poorly and get away with it???

When was that uber-disaster update...2016 I think? That wiped out a few hundred dollars of programs for me.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Elevate Audio View Post
The idea that anyone can have a computer working for years and then one morning you turn it on and it doesn't work because of a Windows update is absolutely ludicrous. And it's not an isolated incident. What other business is allowed to treat it's customers so poorly and get away with it???


Puts me in mind of all those savings & loans, banks, etc., who claimed they were "too big to be allowed to fail".
So many of the worlds global mega-corporations view themselves as superior to any one country`s governmental control these days.
They assume that once they are big enough, they have the power to do what they like.

I for one would love to see someone come up with a way of making them less invincible.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Originally Posted by Elevate Audio View Post
The idea that anyone can have a computer working for years and then one morning you turn it on and it doesn't work because of a Windows update is absolutely ludicrous. And it's not an isolated incident. What other business is allowed to treat it's customers so poorly and get away with it???


Puts me in mind of all those savings & loans, banks, etc., who claimed they were "too big to be allowed to fail".
So many of the worlds global mega-corporations view themselves as superior to any one country`s governmental control these days.
They assume that once they are big enough, they have the power to do what they like.

I for one would love to see someone come up with a way of making them less invincible.

Stop using credit in any form and the banks would go away.