Stretch markers / track phasing

[AudioWonderland]

I use the Fredman technique to mic guitar amps (2 57's, one on axis the other off axis) I use stretch markers to nudge parts into time when needed. I generally have no issues. Of late, I am having issues with the 2 tracks "phase shifiting" for lack of a better term. You can literally hear the track go in/out of phase. I group the 2 tracks etc prior to inserting the markers and snapping to grid. Is there a setting somewhere I have have accidentally set that would cause this?

[jrk]

You group the items?

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by jrk

You group the items?

I am not clear where you are going with this.. I select the section of audio from each track/mic and use "G" to group them.

[jrk]

You wrote "group the 2 tracks" but I guess that wasn't what you meant.

Is there just one item per track?

And / Or if more than one (i.e. maybe you split them) are you sure the items are precisely the same length?

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by jrk

You wrote "group the 2 tracks" but I guess that wasn't what you meant.

Is there just one item per track?

And / Or if more than one (i.e. maybe you split them) are you sure the items are precisely the same length?

There is only one item in the sense that there are no takes. there are recorded section at different points in time duringthe song.

I split things at certain points so I can use an 8th note grid in one section to snap to and then triplets in another. To the best of my knowledge they are the same size.

It certain cases they phase out between 2 stretch marker and pull back in phase at the next. If they are grouped, there should be no way I could move the marker in one but not the other.

[ashcat_lt]

If you are preserving pitch during this process, then you are basically resynthesizing the audio of each track, and the algorithms used to do it are running independently and reacting to their own inputs without any regard for the other. There is no reason to believe that they will be doing exactly the same thing to both at any given time/setting. I’m not surprised at all that it’s a mess.

The best thing to do is probably just not grid align. Keep the human feel because that’s what makes things actually rock. If it’s really just way too sloppy, then retrack it and play better. Next best is to not use stretch markers but rather just slip edit and crossfade. Otherwise, mix the two mics together or maybe combine them into a single stereo item before doing the stretch markers so that the algorithm reacts to them as a whole single thing and (hopefully) fucks them both up the same.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

If you are preserving pitch during this process, then you are basically resynthesizing the audio of each track, and the algorithms used to do it are running independently and reacting to their own inputs without any regard for the other. There is no reason to believe that they will be doing exactly the same thing to both at any given time/setting. I’m not surprised at all that it’s a mess.

The best thing to do is probably just not grid align. Keep the human feel because that’s what makes things actually rock. If it’s really just way too sloppy, then retrack it and play better. Next best is to not use stretch markers but rather just slip edit and crossfade. Otherwise, mix the two mics together or maybe combine them into a single stereo item before doing the stretch markers so that the algorithm reacts to them as a whole single thing and (hopefully) fucks them both up the same.

I know what the work around's are and will use them if need be but this process has worked without issue for years. For it to suddenly stop working now with no changes to the system doesn't make any sense. For it to work on one take and not another in the same project doesn't make any sense.

It is is what it is I guess

[poulhoi]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

I know what the work around's are and will use them if need be but this process has worked without issue for years. For it to suddenly stop working now with no changes to the system doesn't make any sense. For it to work on one take and not another in the same project doesn't make any sense.

It is is what it is I guess

Try right-clicking your grouping button on your toolbar and enable "selecting one item selects group". Or find it in the actions menu.

[jrk]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

For it to work on one take and not another in the same project doesn't make any sense.

It'll depend on how far you move the markers and how far they are apart and all kinds of stuff like that (the algorithm ?). The effect might vary from barely noticeable to outrageous.

(rendering) them to a multitrack (stereo) item like ashcat_lt suggested will do the trick. If you need to explode them back to mono items - I think you'll need to glue the stretched stereo first (otherwise you end up with two mono, individually stretched items again)

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by poulhoi

Try right-clicking your grouping button on your toolbar and enable "selecting one item selects group". Or find it in the actions menu.

Originally Posted by jrk

It'll depend on how far you move the markers and how far they are apart and all kinds of stuff like that (the algorithm ?). The effect might vary from barely noticeable to outrageous.

(rendering) them to a multitrack (stereo) item like ashcat_lt suggested will do the trick. If you need to explode them back to mono items - I think you'll need to glue the stretched stereo first (otherwise you end up with two mono, individually stretched items again)

I will give these a try next session.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by jrk

It'll depend on how far you move the markers and how far they are apart and all kinds of stuff like that (the algorithm ?). The effect might vary from barely noticeable to outrageous.

(rendering) them to a multitrack (stereo) item like ashcat_lt suggested will do the trick. If you need to explode them back to mono items - I think you'll need to glue the stretched stereo first (otherwise you end up with two mono, individually stretched items again)

If I just record the 2 mics as a stereo track going in, I will hear the two mics truly L/R, not a "Summed mono" stereo track correct? I would have to render either way to get to the mono result I am looking for?

EDIT:
I was reading the manual earlier. If I record with the 2 mics as a stereo track, won't the stereo panner let me pan each side to the middle? (Pg 189 in Manual)

[poulhoi]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

If I just record the 2 mics as a stereo track going in, I will hear the two mics truly L/R, not a "Summed mono" stereo track correct? I would have to render either way to get to the mono result I am looking for?

EDIT:
I was reading the manual earlier. If I record with the 2 mics as a stereo track, won't the stereo panner let me pan each side to the middle? (Pg 189 in Manual)

Yes, exactly. But in this case I would recommend the mode with a width control - I think it’s just called “stereo pan”. Then you can turn width to 0 to make the track mono

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by poulhoi

Yes, exactly. But in this case I would recommend the mode with a width control - I think it’s just called “stereo pan”. Then you can turn width to 0 to make the track mono

Good deal. I will work with that and see how that goes. With the width @ 0%,I would expect the pan control to then basically act as a mixer. Pan left for more of that track, right for more of the other?

If that's right, this is perfect for what I need to do...

Or does it just pan the summed mono result L/R?

[poulhoi]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Good deal. I will work with that and see how that goes. With the width @ 0%,I would expect the pan control to then basically act as a mixer. Pan left for more of that track, right for more of the other?

If that's right, this is perfect for what I need to do...

Or does it just pan the summed mono result L/R?

In that case you actually want a balance control, not a panner. No need for width then, you can get by with just the balance control.

I hate balance controls in most cases because they don’t actually pan anything, which is counterintuitive. In this case they come in handy though.

[ashcat_lt]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Or does it just pan the summed mono result L/R?

Yes. If you want something like a channel cross-mixer, there are plugins for that.