Old 10-19-2019, 04:13 AM   #1
Valle
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Default MIDI editor and RT CPU are not friends!

My bad luck continues

Among all the “poofs” I have gotten with REAPER the past few months (p=2191019), I suddenly also having a hard time with the MIDI editor causing the RT CPU (during playback) going from one digit % to like 100% (sometimes even higher!?) in a few seconds, resulting in frustrating cracks and pops. I haven’t noticed this before. But then again, I usually only work in the MIDI editor during the creative stage of a/the project. Now I'm mixing and sometimes I need to open the editor to view and/or adjust things.

Now, I assume that this also has to do with how many/what type of effects I have running simultaneously on other tracks (not just the one I’m viewing in the MIDI editor), and/or my computer. The typical "it's almost always your computer or plugins fault"-case. Although, it’s worth mentioning that when not having the MIDI editor open, the resource usage is not even halfway. But could someone please explain to me, technically, that when I open the MIDI editor, why the RT CPU, and only then, goes bananas. Then I will, at least, understand why this is happening. And I will not have to think about it for the rest of my, and perhaps last, project ... I'm getting too old for this shit!

AAARRGHH! WHY ME? WHY NOW?
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:57 AM   #2
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what are your midi editor settings? displaying midi from other tracks, etc
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:01 AM   #3
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What is your computer, os, ram etc....
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
what are your midi editor settings? displaying midi from other tracks, etc
Not sure what you mean (the "eye" symbol?). I'm only viewing one track's MIDI data (the selected one). The other tracks are hidden (the "eye" symbol is off).

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What is your computer, os, ram etc....
Dell XPS Intel i7-8565U CPU @ 1.80GHz, 1992 Mhz, 4 cores, 8 threads / 16 MB RAM / Windows 10 Pro ... For whatever it's worth.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Valle View Post
Intel i7-8565U CPU @ 1.80GHz
There lies your issue, single core performance is still mostly tied to your clock speed, and there's still more benefit from higher clock speeds than multi core. Even average processors tick at 3.5ghz+ these days.

According to the Intel data, that processor stays at 1.8ghz most of the time and only turbos up in frequency when there's load, this turboing isn't immediate, and is in most cases too slow to aswer the need for processing regarding audio stuff. And that delay is enough to mess up your RT-performance. You either need to disable any and all frequency scaling and power saving features from you BIOS or get a non mobile CPU platform if that can't be done.

Especially regarding real time audio, the clock speed is the most defining aspect of your performance.

Next is the amount of cache, then how many cores you have.

RT cpu going above 100 means, that it takes more than 100% of your buffer length in milliseconds to process the slowest thread in your session. Only way to speed that up is to up your clock speed and cache. That causes glitches since the new buffer isn't ready before it's already sent to the audio device.

AND! This is forum only for pre-relase discussion, this doesn't seem like one. Please keep this forum clean of any and all feature or support requests that aren't pre-release specific :/
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:44 AM   #6
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That box benchmarks really well at 8908 at cpubenchmark.net which is right where my i980x does. Have you do the optimizations ?


https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...-on-Windows-10

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...or-windows-10/
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:52 AM   #7
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i980x is almost 10 years old CPU, and high end CPUs these days benchmark over 20k...
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
i980x is almost 10 years old CPU, and high end CPUs these days benchmark over 20k...
Well that is true my CPU with 12 gigs of RAM lets me do hundreds of tracks in Reaper with tons of plugins
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Icchan View Post
There lies your issue, single core performance is still mostly tied to your clock speed, and there's still more benefit from higher clock speeds than multi core. Even average processors tick at 3.5ghz+ these days.

[...]

RT cpu going above 100 means, that it takes more than 100% of your buffer length in milliseconds to process the slowest thread in your session. Only way to speed that up is to up your clock speed and cache. That causes glitches since the new buffer isn't ready before it's already sent to the audio device.
Thank you!

So much for a "good" computer, then. $2,000 right down the pisser ... I always trusted DELL. I have never had any issues with their stuff. (They are still the best, though.)

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AND! This is forum only for pre-relase discussion, this doesn't seem like one. Please keep this forum clean of any and all feature or support requests that aren't pre-release specific :/
Oh, I'm so sorry for that! Since this never happened with previous versions, I assumed ...

I'll post elsewhere next time.

Any idea about the "poofs"?
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:11 AM   #10
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Preferences->Audio->Buffering->[x] Allow on tracks with open MIDI editors (will increase MIDI preview latency)

Make sure you have this enabled. Also you can probably quite safely change the render-ahead time for anticipative FX processing to something like 75 ms, which will definitely still help take the burden off the CPU, with manageable MIDI editor preview latency.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Preferences->Audio->Buffering->[x] Allow on tracks with open MIDI editors (will increase MIDI preview latency)

Make sure you have this enabled. Also you can probably quite safely change the render-ahead time for anticipative FX processing to something like 75 ms, which will definitely still help take the burden off the CPU, with manageable MIDI editor preview latency.
Thanks, ED! I appreciate it! (I knew you'd have an idea! )
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valle View Post
Thank you!

So much for a "good" computer, then. $2,000 right down the pisser ... I always trusted DELL. I have never had any issues with their stuff. (They are still the best, though.)



Oh, I'm so sorry for that! Since this never happened with previous versions, I assumed ...

I'll post elsewhere next time.

Any idea about the "poofs"?
I don't think your computer is the problem. Have you done the optimizations ?
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:38 AM   #13
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Those optimizations won't do miracles if he had a long chain of sends from the MIDI track (i.e. separately treating multiple outputs from Superior Drummer 3 etc.) and the above option disabled.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Those optimizations won't do miracles if he had a long chain of sends from the MIDI track (i.e. separately treating multiple outputs from Superior Drummer 3 etc.) and the above option disabled.
That!

From Addictive Drums, though. But the same.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Those optimizations won't do miracles if he had a long chain of sends from the MIDI track (i.e. separately treating multiple outputs from Superior Drummer 3 etc.) and the above option disabled.
ahh ok.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valle View Post
That!

From Addictive Drums, though. But the same.
Yep, I thought as much Do the above thing, you should be sorted out.
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:33 PM   #17
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This processor is quite optimal. RT CPU increases due to strange optimization, this problem equally occurs on more powerful processors. In general, the RT CPU on Midi is not very good in Reaper, I definitely saw the advantages of Studio One when I conducted the last test (but the advantage was not very big 15-20 %). But when track recording is not active, Reaper buffers much better due to "FX processing / multiprocessing"
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:48 PM   #18
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RT CPU with MIDI will be just as good with the above option enabled.
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:53 PM   #19
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With open midi editors - yes, that's right. But when using a large number of MIDI instruments, this problem manifests itself, I specifically began to compare with other DAWs and realized that, for example, in Studio One this happens a little better (about 15-20%), the setting Live FX multiprocessing only helps partially
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Old 10-19-2019, 02:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Preferences->Audio->Buffering->[x] Allow on tracks with open MIDI editors (will increase MIDI preview latency)

Make sure you have this enabled. Also you can probably quite safely change the render-ahead time for anticipative FX processing to something like 75 ms, which will definitely still help take the burden off the CPU, with manageable MIDI editor preview latency.
I'll be damned! That fixed it! You Da Man, ED! Thank you! (I'll be in Slovenia next summer. I'll go south, look you up, and buy you a BIG beer!)

I guess my Dell is still OK, then!
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Old 10-20-2019, 02:48 AM   #21
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My apologies to the moderators, for posting in the wrong forum. Please move this thread to the General Discussion Forum.
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