Old 09-05-2019, 07:51 PM   #4521
MalcolmG
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Hi all, been out for awhile but new studio space is setup so resuming on this.

I have a Frontier Alphatrack that I've setup to work with CSI. One of it's features is a touch strip that from a midi point of view behaves like a Fader. Because its touch, it sends the position wherever you touch and/or drag your finger to.

So in the midi monitor I see:

Code:
IN -> AlphaTrack 90  74  7f 
IN -> AlphaTrack e9  00  14 
IN -> AlphaTrack e9  00  18 
IN -> AlphaTrack e9  00  1c 
IN -> AlphaTrack 90  74  00
where the first and last are the PressRelease for the touch and the e9 messages are the fader position as I drag my finger around.

I have them setup in the mst like this:

Code:
Widget Scrub 
  Fader7Bit e9 00 7f 
WidgetEnd 

Widget ScrubTouch 
  PressRelease 90 74 7f 90 74 00
WidgetEnd
If I assign Scrub to say the MasterTrackVolume in my zone, it works fine. However, I'd really like to use it for navigating along the timeline.

There's a Reaper action 992, called Transport: Scrub/jog (MIDI CC relative/absolute only) which seemed like just the ticket, especially the absolute part. But assigning that to Scrub in the zone file doesn't behave as I expect. Wherever I touch/drag on the touch strip, the playhead just slowly rewinds to the beginning. When I stop touching, it stops, but even if I touch on the far right, it still rewinds gradually.

Any ideas? I'm possibly misunderstanding what the absolute part of the action description means, but I assumed it meant it would handle a fader message vs an encoder for relative.

Last edited by MalcolmG; 09-06-2019 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:56 PM   #4522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Slight design tweak.

We really shouldn't be restricting information from the surface -- aka Press/Release.

What we really should do is control it at the Action, like Toggle:

Code:
IgnoreRelease+someButton someAction
Nice. This has been one of the little niggles I've had, as it potentially prevents the idea of multiple people sharing an mst. This is a nice separation.

I got so excited I updated the wiki before realising it wasn't in the build yet


Quote:
That means that these will go away soon:

Midi Widget -- PressRelease

OSC Widget -- PressOnly
Meaning if I use Press with two messages as arguments, then it behaves as a PressRelease?
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:26 AM   #4523
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Has anyone tried spanning a TrackNavigator across two surfaces?

I have two BCF2000's setup and recognised under CSI. I can set either up like this and have the 8 faders mapped correctly:

Code:
Zone Home
  IncludedZones
    Channel|1-8
  IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Channel|1-8 
  TrackNavigator
  Fader|  TrackVolume
ZoneEnd
However, if I then try to add the following to the zone file for the right hand one:

Code:
Zone Home
  IncludedZones
    Channel|9-16
  IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Channel|9-16 
  TrackNavigator
  Fader|  TrackVolume
ZoneEnd
It doesn't work as I'd hoped. The faders for tracks 9-16 never get mapped, even when I have >8 tracks.

Currently I have my CSI.INI like this, so the two BCFs are sharing a mst but have their own zone files.

Code:
MidiInMonitor On
MidiOutMonitor On
VSTMonitor On
OSCInMonitor Off
OSCOutMonitor Off

Page HomePage FollowMCP NoSynchPages UseScrollLink UseTrackColoring 75 255 166
MidiSurface AlphaTrack 8 8 AlphaTrack.mst AlphaTrack UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
MidiSurface BCF2000Right 0 1 BCF2000.mst BCF2000Right UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
MidiSurface BCF2000Left 10 10 BCF2000.mst BCF2000Left UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
MidiSurface FCB1010 1 2 FCB1010.mst FCB1010 UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:50 AM   #4524
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Does anyone know if MCU controllers are able to respond to child/parent track view variations as outlined in this great new script announcement ( with YouTube video): https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=11
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:54 AM   #4525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmG View Post
Hi all, been out for awhile but new studio space is setup so resuming on this.

I have a Frontier Alphatrack that I've setup to work with CSI. One of it's features is a touch strip that from a midi point of view behaves like a Fader. Because its touch, it sends the position wherever you touch and/or drag your finger to.

So in the midi monitor I see:

Code:
IN -> AlphaTrack 90  74  7f 
IN -> AlphaTrack e9  00  14 
IN -> AlphaTrack e9  00  18 
IN -> AlphaTrack e9  00  1c 
IN -> AlphaTrack 90  74  00
where the first and last are the PressRelease for the touch and the e9 messages are the fader position as I drag my finger around.

I have them setup in the mst like this:

Code:
Widget Scrub 
  Fader7Bit e9 00 7f 
WidgetEnd 

Widget ScrubTouch 
  PressRelease 90 74 7f 90 74 00
WidgetEnd
If I assign Scrub to say the MasterTrackVolume in my zone, it works fine. However, I'd really like to use it for navigating along the timeline.

There's a Reaper action 992, called Transport: Scrub/jog (MIDI CC relative/absolute only) which seemed like just the ticket, especially the absolute part. But assigning that to Scrub in the zone file doesn't behave as I expect. Wherever I touch/drag on the touch strip, the playhead just slowly rewinds to the beginning. When I stop touching, it stops, but even if I touch on the far right, it still rewinds gradually.

Any ideas? I'm possibly misunderstanding what the absolute part of the action description means, but I assumed it meant it would handle a fader message vs an encoder for relative.
Don't know about the Reaper action, but did notice the fader e9 definition -- e0 - ef usually indicates 14 bit in MCU -- so should probably be defined as 14bit like:

Code:
Widget Scrub 
  Fader14Bit e9 00 7f 
WidgetEnd
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:56 AM   #4526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmG View Post
Meaning if I use Press with two messages as arguments, then it behaves as a PressRelease?
Correct.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:01 AM   #4527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmG View Post
Has anyone tried spanning a TrackNavigator across two surfaces?

I have two BCF2000's setup and recognised under CSI. I can set either up like this and have the 8 faders mapped correctly:

Code:
Zone Home
  IncludedZones
    Channel|1-8
  IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Channel|1-8 
  TrackNavigator
  Fader|  TrackVolume
ZoneEnd
However, if I then try to add the following to the zone file for the right hand one:

Code:
Zone Home
  IncludedZones
    Channel|9-16
  IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Channel|9-16 
  TrackNavigator
  Fader|  TrackVolume
ZoneEnd
It doesn't work as I'd hoped. The faders for tracks 9-16 never get mapped, even when I have >8 tracks.

Currently I have my CSI.INI like this, so the two BCFs are sharing a mst but have their own zone files.

Code:
MidiInMonitor On
MidiOutMonitor On
VSTMonitor On
OSCInMonitor Off
OSCOutMonitor Off

Page HomePage FollowMCP NoSynchPages UseScrollLink UseTrackColoring 75 255 166
MidiSurface AlphaTrack 8 8 AlphaTrack.mst AlphaTrack UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
MidiSurface BCF2000Right 0 1 BCF2000.mst BCF2000Right UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
MidiSurface BCF2000Left 10 10 BCF2000.mst BCF2000Left UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
MidiSurface FCB1010 1 2 FCB1010.mst FCB1010 UseZoneLink NoAutoMapSends NoAutoMapFX NoAutoMapFXMenu NoAutoMapFocusedFX
Very close

.mst/.ost/.zon files are local to a surface.

You need to change "9-16" to "1-8" in the second .zon file.

The order in CSI.ini determines the overall actual channels.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:02 AM   #4528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Does anyone know if MCU controllers are able to respond to child/parent track view variations as outlined in this great new script announcement ( with YouTube video): https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=11
That feature is being discussed right now, what is your dream solution for Folders ?

Do you need more than is shown in the video ?

Why?

You are coming in at the prefect time
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:01 AM   #4529
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New build is up.

Monitoring moved to LearnMode Window.

That means you no longer have to go into config to turn it on/off.

Also means you never forget you left it on next time you start up
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:22 AM   #4530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Monitoring moved to LearnMode Window.

That means you no longer have to go into config to turn it on/off.

Also means you never forget you left it on next time you start up
Cool!
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:01 AM   #4531
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Hey Geoff,
Are the displays functional on the Faderport 8/16? Currently, none work on my Faderport 8 in any of the MCU modes or the native mode.
Also sends, fx and such aren't working. Is all that disabled at the moment?
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:24 PM   #4532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Hey Geoff,
Are the displays functional on the Faderport 8/16? Currently, none work on my Faderport 8 in any of the MCU modes or the native mode.
Also sends, fx and such aren't working. Is all that disabled at the moment?
Hmmm...

I thought there were folks out there with FP16s working fine...

If you press the Sends button on the FP16 and select a Track, you don't see sends ?

You might want to got into the config and check ALL the auto boxes at first to get going.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:26 PM   #4533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Hmmm...

I thought there were folks out there with FP16s working fine...

If you press the Sends button on the FP16 and select a Track, you don't see sends ?

You might want to got into the config and check ALL the auto boxes at first to get going.
I have tried that - with all boxes checked except for "Synch Zones Across Surfaces".
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:28 PM   #4534
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New build is up.

There is a new modifier -- Press:

Code:
        Press+someButton someAction
This allows for better .mst/.ost file definitions, if we can get get both a Press and a Release from the Surface, we gladly take 'em

Press says just keep the Press and ignore the Release when that is the desired behaviour for a particular Action.

[edit] Just a note -- haven't changed the underlying Midi stuff yet, just OSC, Midi requires q bit more work -- next build
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Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 09-06-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:31 PM   #4535
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I have tried that - with all boxes checked except for "Synch Zones Across Surfaces".
Ok - just tried that one too. Still a no-go.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:44 PM   #4536
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Right now the only things that are working for me are the track volume/mute/solo's, automation, and transport, and also some track selection/navigation.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:50 PM   #4537
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Do Display Actions require defined Display Widgets to function? As I do not know, I can say there are none defined in the mst file.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:08 PM   #4538
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Wait - should I be using the Faderport 16 or the MCU .mst file? The MCU file seems more functional at this point.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:00 PM   #4539
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New build is up.

BREAKING CHANGE

There is no more PressRelease, just Press for both versions -- press and press/release.

I think I got all of them in the build, of course if you have any .mst files of your own, just do a search for "PressRelease" and replace with "Press".
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:31 AM   #4540
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Hey Geoff,
New build seems good so far.
I have yet another question for you (sorry).
So I've managed to get the Faderport8 working using the MCU .mst and Zone files and got all the essentials working well. But I am noticing a peculiar behavior when writing send automation. When the track is set to "touch" automation and any moves are made with the controller and then released, the automation goes on recording as if it is in "latch" mode, not snapping back to the previous value. Moving the envelope fader in Reaper does, however, so all is right there. Also, touch commands are being sent properly from the Faderport8 as automating Track Volume envelopes works perfectly well. Also, I double-checked that the proper midi commands were being sent to Reaper (they are) and checked the .zon file, and all looks correct there to. Is this the correct behavior?
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:00 AM   #4541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Hey Geoff,
New build seems good so far.
I have yet another question for you (sorry).
So I've managed to get the Faderport8 working using the MCU .mst and Zone files and got all the essentials working well. But I am noticing a peculiar behavior when writing send automation. When the track is set to "touch" automation and any moves are made with the controller and then released, the automation goes on recording as if it is in "latch" mode, not snapping back to the previous value. Moving the envelope fader in Reaper does, however, so all is right there. Also, touch commands are being sent properly from the Faderport8 as automating Track Volume envelopes works perfectly well. Also, I double-checked that the proper midi commands were being sent to Reaper (they are) and checked the .zon file, and all looks correct there to. Is this the correct behavior?
Can't be sure, but seem to recall that Send Touch is unfinished.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:05 AM   #4542
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Quote:
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Can't be sure, but seem to recall that Send Touch is unfinished.
Ahh - got it. Aside from that one thing, it seems to work well.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:06 AM   #4543
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New build is up.

More Learn Mode progress.

When you move a control on your surface that is mapped and the focus/selection stuff is right you should see the following:

The Widget name should be displayed in the edit box and selected in the Widget list.
The Action name should be displayed in the edit box and selected in the Action list.
The correct entry in the Zone should be selected.

A quick note to those who might be interested, there is no longer any need for manually generating Raw FX files, the system now searches for one and if it not present it just generates it on the spot.

Still not functional, but wanted to give a flavour for feedback
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:47 PM   #4544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

More Learn Mode progress.

When you move a control on your surface that is mapped and the focus/selection stuff is right you should see the following:

The Widget name should be displayed in the edit box and selected in the Widget list.
The Action name should be displayed in the edit box and selected in the Action list.
The correct entry in the Zone should be selected.

A quick note to those who might be interested, there is no longer any need for manually generating Raw FX files, the system now searches for one and if it not present it just generates it on the spot.

Still not functional, but wanted to give a flavour for feedback
Well...

I can't test any of my mapped fx because my fx will no longer map. lol

I must have missed something vital a few versions back.
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:52 PM   #4545
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Well...

I can't test any of my mapped fx because my fx will no longer map. lol

I must have missed something vital a few versions back.
BUT...
If that is expected and you are referring to SelectedTrackNavigator kinda stuff, then I would say they are doing as you have described. :-)
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:39 PM   #4546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Well...

I can't test any of my mapped fx because my fx will no longer map. lol

I must have missed something vital a few versions back.
In your .mst files, you have to replace every "PressRelease" with "Press", leave the rest of the line alone.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:46 PM   #4547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
In your .mst files, you have to replace every "PressRelease" with "Press", leave the rest of the line alone.
I did catch that one. Are .zon FX files currently supposed to be working?
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:59 PM   #4548
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On a semi-related note, regarding the file format you're working on right now:
I'm finding I can seldomly use the auto-numbering command - "Action|" - as I am having way too much fun creating custom commands for buttons that require individual Reaper Actions, and that seems to break the numbering flow.

i.e. - right now I've managed to reconfigure all the solos on my Sends zones to solo their destination tracks and then unsolo and return. Lotsa fun with Reaper actions to pull that off :-)

Since you are creating a system that will presumably auto-create these .zon files now, are you considering dropping that auto-numbering command? I'm curious about it since there's so much more flexibility without it, and it really appears put in place just to help simplify the process of manually mapping things out.

Just a thought - though I'll bet you're 1000 miles ahead of it. :-)
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:21 PM   #4549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Don't know about the Reaper action, but did notice the fader e9 definition -- e0 - ef usually indicates 14 bit in MCU -- so should probably be defined as 14bit like:

Code:
Widget Scrub 
  Fader14Bit e9 00 7f 
WidgetEnd
Thanks, but unfortunately results in the same behaviour. I'll have a dig on what I can find on that action.

Cheers
Malcolm
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:23 PM   #4550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Very close

.mst/.ost/.zon files are local to a surface.

You need to change "9-16" to "1-8" in the second .zon file.

The order in CSI.ini determines the overall actual channels.
Got it, and can confirm it works fine. Track colouring doesn't seem to be working at the moment. Is that a known issue?

Cheers
Malcolm
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:24 PM   #4551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Very close

.mst/.ost/.zon files are local to a surface.

You need to change "9-16" to "1-8" in the second .zon file.

The order in CSI.ini determines the overall actual channels.
One other thing, am I reading too much into the fact you said mst files are local to a surface? Am I asking for trouble having two surfaces sharing the same mst? (assuming they truly are sending the same messages)
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:25 PM   #4552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmG View Post
Meaning if I use Press with two messages as arguments, then it behaves as a PressRelease?
Can confirm this works perfectly at my end.

Is there a case to be made for also having the Release modifier. So that I can separately assign Actions to occur on the Press of a Widget and different ones on the Release?

Cheers
Malcolm

Last edited by MalcolmG; 09-07-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:29 PM   #4553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Monitoring moved to LearnMode Window.

That means you no longer have to go into config to turn it on/off.

Also means you never forget you left it on next time you start up
Is there another way to bring up the monitoring window than this?

Just seems there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem with this. In order to see the midi coming in, I need to first be able to map at least one button to the ToggleLearnMode action. However, to get to the point where I have a Button Widget definition to do that, I probably need the monitoring window to see the messages.

Make sense?
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:19 PM   #4554
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I did catch that one. Are .zon FX files currently supposed to be working?
Working fine here...
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:23 PM   #4555
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On a semi-related note, regarding the file format you're working on right now:
I'm finding I can seldomly use the auto-numbering command - "Action|" - as I am having way too much fun creating custom commands for buttons that require individual Reaper Actions, and that seems to break the numbering flow.

i.e. - right now I've managed to reconfigure all the solos on my Sends zones to solo their destination tracks and then unsolo and return. Lotsa fun with Reaper actions to pull that off :-)

Since you are creating a system that will presumably auto-create these .zon files now, are you considering dropping that auto-numbering command? I'm curious about it since there's so much more flexibility without it, and it really appears put in place just to help simplify the process of manually mapping things out.

Just a thought - though I'll bet you're 1000 miles ahead of it. :-)
Well, there's no reason you have to use it, as you are finding out.

However, if you have a Behringer X32 or some such, with many identical channels, it sure can cut down on configuration fatigue

Your choice.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:25 PM   #4556
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Got it, and can confirm it works fine. Track colouring doesn't seem to be working at the moment. Is that a known issue?

Cheers
Malcolm
Yeah, Track colouring was very experimental, and relied on many dirty tricks, more a proof of concept that anything else.

It will be back, done properly, at some point...
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:28 PM   #4557
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One other thing, am I reading too much into the fact you said mst files are local to a surface? Am I asking for trouble having two surfaces sharing the same mst? (assuming they truly are sending the same messages)
No problem at all sharing, just saying that you can, if you want, have two identical surfaces behave completely differently, but you don't have to
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:29 PM   #4558
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Can confirm this works perfectly at my end.

Is there a case to be made for also having the Release modifier. So that I can separately assign Actions to occur on the Press of a Widget and different ones on the Release?

Cheers
Malcolm
Theoretically, but I'd have to sea valid use case -- sounds like a pretty strange workflow indeed
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:33 PM   #4559
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Is there another way to bring up the monitoring window than this?

Just seems there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem with this. In order to see the midi coming in, I need to first be able to map at least one button to the ToggleLearnMode action. However, to get to the point where I have a Button Widget definition to do that, I probably need the monitoring window to see the messages.

Make sense?
Yup, every .mst/.ost/.zon in the build CSI folder will be set up, but you are exactly right.

Thinking there is probably a well known button we could use to get bootstrapped.

So you could load a wrong .mst/.zon folder combo just long enough to get you going.

Or maybe copy one and doctor it.

If there are better ideas, I'm definitely open to suggestions...
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:16 PM   #4560
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Well, there's no reason you have to use it, as you are finding out.

However, if you have a Behringer X32 or some such, with many identical channels, it sure can cut down on configuration fatigue

Your choice.
Well I did try, but it wouldn't let me.
To pull off that trick required unique Reaper Actions for each send. Can't mix it up when it's auto-numbered.
So I guess I'm just requesting that feature doesn't go away. :-)
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