Old 09-18-2019, 09:32 AM   #1
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Default v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019

v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ ARA: do not inform plug-ins that samples are available if the source audio has been deleted or moved
+ ARA: improve loading projects with missing media
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC

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Old 09-18-2019, 09:46 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC


It's in I/O dialog, just so everyone knows.



+/- 500 ms might not be enough. Please allow for typing in larger values. Right now if I type in 1000 ms, it is not remembered after reopening the I/O dialog. Or just extent the range of the knob to +/- 2000 ms, I'd say that should be enough. Thanks


Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool

Last edited by EvilDragon; 09-18-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019

+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
If there an advantage over using reainsert for managing latency from hardware synth audio return ?
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:03 AM   #4
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That feature is purely for dealing with virtual instrument latency (i.e. orchestral sample libraries etc.).

See this thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224593
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:04 AM   #5
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Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
The knobs work as expected here, so looks like the issue isn't universal.

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Old 09-18-2019, 10:06 AM   #6
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Hmmm weird. Is there a setting that influences this?

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Old 09-18-2019, 10:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Thank you devs, this is awesome!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also the knob behaves weirdly. It hides the mouse cursor, but when releasing the mouse the cursor is NOT in the place where it was when clicking on the knob. Very confusing! The cursor should not move after releasing the mouse - there's no point in hiding the mouse cursor then. I see that track pan/vol and track control knobs behave the same... This ain't cool
FWIW this doesn't happen on my end, cursor stays at the same place. But I agree that 500ms might not be enough, there are some REALLY sluggish instruments out there.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:08 AM   #8
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I was expecting per note delay parameter... not only track based delay. But this is good news
I will test it asap. I hope it is also in the API
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:09 AM   #9
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Hmmm, per note delay might be very unwieldy in practice... What would be the use case? (It's pretty obvious why track based delay makes sense.)
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:15 AM   #10
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Hmmm, per note delay might be very unwieldy in practice... What would be the use case? (It's pretty obvious why track based delay makes sense.)
I'm also curious. Maybe for orchestral instruments with keyswitches, where you'd need a different delay for different articulations? But then again this seems like it would be very cumbersome, and should be part of a articulation management system instead (I know Tack had a prototype for this for his Reaticulate script at one point, where you could set a different delay for each articulation).
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:16 AM   #11
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Because some libraries might have different attack times on lower notes than on high notes. Contrabass for example. Or maybe even FX libraries where any note have complete different sounds. Then it would be very easy to quantize those reverse cymbals in MIDI
Or because it is the REAPER way to go one step ahead when implementing features
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Hmmm weird. Is there a setting that influences this?
There's the "Use pen/table-safe mode - do not reposition mouse cursor while adjusting knobs/etc" option under Editing Behavior --> Mouse.

I have it unticked but if ticked it causes the behavior your described (just tried it).
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
There's the "Use pen/table-safe mode - do not reposition mouse cursor while adjusting knobs/etc" option under Editing Behavior --> Mouse.

I have it unticked but if ticked it causes the behavior your described (just tried it).
Ah thanks - that was it!
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by lucor View Post
I'm also curious. Maybe for orchestral instruments with keyswitches, where you'd need a different delay for different articulations? But then again this seems like it would be very cumbersome, and should be part of a articulation management system instead (I know Tack had a prototype for this for his Reaticulate script at one point, where you could set a different delay for each articulation).

For example if you want to stack some spiccato with a pulsing synth you could have some sort of lag between the two.


This function is very very very welcomed, I'm waiting for this and I was really impressed a DAW like Reaper lacked this.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:40 AM   #15
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The track delay works very well.
I agree on the 500 ms limit. Why no more?
Also please add it to the SetMediaTrackInfo_Value() and GetMediaTrackInfo_Value() and it will be perfect.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:53 AM   #16
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The track delay function does not seem to work with sends. That is if you send audio to a track, the playback time offset of the track does not delay its output.

I also agree that the 500ms limit is too low. For reference, Cubase has it as 800ms for MIDI/Instrument and 2000ms for Audio tracks.

In any case, thank you very much for this useful addition!
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Woooohooo.... this is fantastic. Thanks so much Reaper Dev Team!!

Ok... since we have your attention on this... one TEEENSY little Feature request: An ON/OFF button for that control. If there is not enough space, I'd take that over the knob any day. Here's the reason why...

If there is a bypass button, you can do patch changes (or articulation changes) that don't need negative delay, and this will alleviate the need to create a new track for the same patch. It also helps A/B groove. That was actually one positive about the SJFX insert... it could be bypassed with automation.

Just throwing that out there.

Thanks again guys!!

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Old 09-18-2019, 11:08 AM   #18
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ahhhh, no more rendering my strings out just to get them to hit correctly. thanks!
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:09 AM   #19
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If there is a bypass button, you can do patch changes (or articulation changes) that don't need negative delay, and this will alleviate the need to create a new track for the same patch. It also helps A/B groove. That was actually one positive about the SJFX insert... it could be bypassed with automation.
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:13 AM   #20
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hmm, this works beautifully with static tempos, but in songs with dynamic tempos, it only works where you set it.

FR for automation of this param, or for a beat-based option
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:15 AM   #21
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How do you mean "where you set it"?
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #22
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hm, i actually think i'm off the mark here - let me reconsider for a while. i suspect i was thinking in reverse.

edit, yup, i thought the issue would be conceptually similar to how, in a sidechain compressor, the release param in milliseconds doesn't change in response to tempo changes. in that case, if you're using it as a rhythmic effect, you have to automate it to follow the tempo.

i worried that this feature would have a similar issue, but it does not -- since it's compensating for a static value that likely has no relationship with bpm.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
This is fantastic. Can we please please please offer an option to delay in samples? I'd like to be a little more accurate especially with drums. Could be a toggle button in the I/O menu or global preference.

Either way thank you very much!!!!
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:40 AM   #25
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track delay is much appreciated thank you!

And being able to delay in samples as mentioned above would be great too!
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I wonder if that's a can of worms or not, but yeah, if we can automate send parameters, we should be able to at the very least automate toggling track delay on/off.
Looking at where it's located (in the I/O), I think you are right. Anyway... sometimes it's worth it to ask. I've written enough scripts to know that sometimes you get lucky and there are side-benefits that work
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:03 PM   #27
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Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
Agreed, but considering where it's located, I'm not sure it would be automatable. But hey.... Those guys have surprised us before
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
That feature is purely for dealing with virtual instrument latency (i.e. orchestral sample libraries etc.).

See this thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224593
I made a test and it can be used to offset the audio coming from the external synths.
Track 1 with midi clip delayed by -40ms send to hardware synth
Track 2 receive the audio from the hardware synth through the audio interface
result : track 2 is also offset and audio interface delay is compensated.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:17 PM   #29
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Thinking about it, it could be fantastic to be able to automate the delay amount. This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.

EDIT: Also, holy crap balls. Thank you so much!!

Last edited by Klangfarben; 09-18-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:29 PM   #30
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If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.
+1000

API integration would be HUGE!!... and a natural next step.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:36 PM   #31
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Also it should delay sends from the track. Unless that's a huge problem?
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
I was expecting per note delay parameter... not only track based delay. But this is good news
I will test it asap. I hope it is also in the API
Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
Because some libraries might have different attack times on lower notes than on high notes. Contrabass for example. Or maybe even FX libraries where any note have complete different sounds. Then it would be very easy to quantize those reverse cymbals in MIDI
Or because it is the REAPER way to go one step ahead when implementing features
I'm certainly not against this and very much see the use case. Perhaps for this specific use case it could be done with a text file for the instrument similar to note names?
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:42 PM   #33
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+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC

[/QUOTE]

Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.

Thank you!
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's in I/O dialog, just so everyone knows.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
This is huge, thank you devs!

It got me thinking if the delay knob could also be somewhere more accessible (in addition to the I/O window). Maybe straight on the MCP for those quick fine tunings?
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:55 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
If track delay is accessible via API then tack, heda and others could send a specific delay amount when switching articulations, yes? Might be a little easier to manage that then making the track delay amount automatable.

EDIT: Also, holy crap balls. Thank you so much!!
True, that should be good enough and sounds much easier to implement for the devs.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:31 PM   #37
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This could also make it fairly easy for @tack to implement a articulation-dependent delay amount for Reaticulate.
Yep and that's been on my to-do list for a while. I built a PoC which was finicky and I wasn't looking forward to a real implementation. This new feature will be a great help. We can set a fixed negative track offset and then Reaticulate can delay notes according to the current articulation.

It doesn't need to be automatable as such, but API support for setting the track offset definitely needed.

Great addition!
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:49 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Neutronic View Post
v5.983+dev0918 - September 18 2019
+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Ooooyeeep, this is a big step ahead! Thank you Devs!
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by puddi View Post
This is huge, thank you devs!

It got me thinking if the delay knob could also be somewhere more accessible (in addition to the I/O window). Maybe straight on the MCP for those quick fine tunings?
I agree - a delay readout in digits printed on mixer track panels would be lovely
And a way of bypassing via a modified click on them
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:05 PM   #40
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+ Tracks: support positive or negative playback time offset without affecting PDC
Devs please, add option to switch between miliseconds, samples and frames.

Thank you![/QUOTE]

+1.

Agreed. I'm just so happy that they even included... i'm afraid to ask for more features... as if it would make me sound ungrateful
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