Old 06-25-2018, 02:10 PM   #1
mykrobinson
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Default Removing Heavy Breathing?

I have what is probably a stupid question....

I had an idea for a song yesterday. So i figured I would try to get the idea documented. Usually, what happens is I have a bunch of ideas in dumb places, like the shower or riding mower, and by the time I get back inside , I have forgotten...

So i tracked bits and pieces, the whole time trying to make myself just finish the d@mn process and not worry about the "mix" and how it sounds, because its just an idea to be developed a bit later.

Anyways, I wrote lyrics and everything, then attempted to sing the melody for the chorus (i am not a singer) so I could just hear how it all sounds outside of my head.

I used some compression to level my voice out a bit better, but now I am stuck with heavy breathing. I like the breathing, but I'd like it to sound "different" and not stick out so much. My first thought is volume automation envelopes, but what are my options for controlling recorded breathing?

Here's a sample of work in progress:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kz...OuzJpIbQpmecaF
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:18 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
I have what is probably a stupid question....

I had an idea for a song yesterday. So i figured I would try to get the idea documented. Usually, what happens is I have a bunch of ideas in dumb places, like the shower or riding mower, and by the time I get back inside , I have forgotten...

So i tracked bits and pieces, the whole time trying to make myself just finish the d@mn process and not worry about the "mix" and how it sounds, because its just an idea to be developed a bit later.

Anyways, I wrote lyrics and everything, then attempted to sing the melody for the chorus (i am not a singer) so I could just hear how it all sounds outside of my head.

I used some compression to level my voice out a bit better, but now I am stuck with heavy breathing. I like the breathing, but I'd like it to sound "different" and not stick out so much. My first thought is volume automation envelopes, but what are my options for controlling recorded breathing?

Here's a sample of work in progress:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kz...OuzJpIbQpmecaF
Really and truly, the best way to deal with this myk, is a "Take Volume" envelope. Just go through and use the envelope to remove the breaths.

Your breaths are too loud to use a gate or vocal rider, besides, if you want to do it right, use an envelope. You can even leave a bit of breath if you like.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:32 PM   #3
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Really and truly, the best way to deal with this myk, is a "Take Volume" envelope. Just go through and use the envelope to remove the breaths.

Your breaths are too loud to use a gate or vocal rider, besides, if you want to do it right, use an envelope. You can even leave a bit of breath if you like.
Thanks, I'll look this up and give it a try when I get home.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:37 PM   #4
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
Thanks, I'll look this up and give it a try when I get home.
If you haven't used Take envelopes before, just "right click" on the items and select "Takes/Take envelope.

I use them all the time, and even though it takes a little time, it's well worth it, because you can get it exactly like your want it.

Also there are a lot of actions that can help you put in your envelope points.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
If you haven't used Take envelopes before, just "right click" on the items and select "Takes/Take envelope.

I use them all the time, and even though it takes a little time, it's well worth it, because you can get it exactly like your want it.

Also there are a lot of actions that can help you put in your envelope points.
That was pretty cool to learn, but looks like my fix in this case was to eliminate on of the compression stages. I found that even if i dropped the take volume where the offending breathing was, it was still being ramped up significantly due to squashing.

Seems the true fix is to learn to sing and practice proper breath control
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:22 PM   #7
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goddamn evil dragon got here first again
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:32 PM   #8
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goddamn evil dragon got here first again
You know, it's times like this I wish this forum had a simple like button like facebomb
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:08 PM   #9
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in cases like that, I prefer Dos Equis... no, no...
I use audition as the external wav editor... and open the wav into it while inside reaper... because it lets me really zoom around fastly and isolate each breath, and either totally cut the volume or reduce the volume and then when saved it goes right back into the reaper track
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:07 AM   #10
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goddamn evil dragon got here first again



I couldn't resist when I saw the thread title...
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Old 06-26-2018, 03:02 AM   #11
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Create a custom action with this:

SWS/BR: Select envelope at mouse cursor
Envelope: Insert 4 envelope points at time selection
SWS/BR: Decrease selected envelope points by 1db (volume envelope only)
SWS/BR: Decrease selected envelope points by 1db (volume envelope only)
SWS/BR: Decrease selected envelope points by 1db (volume envelope only)
SWS/BR: Decrease selected envelope points by 1db (volume envelope only)
SWS/BR: Decrease selected envelope points by 1db (volume envelope only)

Then show take volume and make a time selection and run this.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:38 AM   #12
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Waves has a plugin called "DeBreath."

Does anyone have any experience using this?

Is it worth the money?
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:49 AM   #13
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If you are about to go through and start editing automation envelopes for every heavy breathing artifact...

That can lead to re-editing those bits (maybe a few times) as you dial things in. Which will be a PITA. You might want to go through the first time and instead of editing envelopes for every occurrence, slice those bits out and slide them into a new track. So you end up with two tracks: "Vocal" and then "breath". Now you can put your eq on the "breath" track and dial that in to taste and then simply grab for the fader and balance to taste. It's an easy matter to grab that "breath" track fader as needed as you dial the mix in. So you just have the initial fiddly round of slicing out sections which will probably be less work that the first round of editing an envelope would have been.

There's no limit to tracks in a DAW. Use them!
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
I found that even if i dropped the take volume where the offending breathing was, it was still being ramped up significantly due to squashing.
Is why actual Track Volume envelope is better for this.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:35 PM   #15
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Is why actual Track Volume envelope is better for this.
Maybe, but then that unnecessarily uses up the track volume. I've done this hundreds of times and it don't take
long to go through and fix the breaths with the take envelope. I might add, I also take care of the sibilance
along with any P-pops and any other extraneous noises at the same time.

If I've got compression on the track, I leave it on while I'm doing all this.

All it takes is doing it a few times to know where the breaths and sibilance should be. I might add that I believe
when it comes to breaths, what you leave and don't leave is totally subjective. The idea is that if you eliminate
them, it takes the life out of the vocal. But I think that really depends on the experience and breath control that
the singer has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
That was pretty cool to learn, but looks like my fix in this case was to eliminate on of the compression stages. I found that even if i dropped the take volume where the offending breathing was, it was still being ramped up significantly due to squashing.
Yeah, I listened to your song myk, and I thought it was all very compressed. I could easily hear the breathes. My
suggestion would be to lower the compression so that the vocal sounds even but natural. If there are small sections
where the vocal needs seems to be getting lost, use the take envelope ot bring them up. Often times it may be the
back side of a word or a phrase.

Quote:
Seems the true fix is to learn to sing and practice proper breath control
Ha ha, I think you've got it, words of wisdom for all of us.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:15 PM   #16
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This video from Kenny changed my workflow on vocal tracks. Works like a charm. Thanks Kenny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=pj14aKySE-4
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Maybe, but then that unnecessarily uses up the track volume.
Yeah sorry, I actually kind of want to change my answer. It IS true that as soon as I read your first reply - before I read the OPs response to your suggestion - I thought "but compression will undo that", but I usually use Take Volume for this too. Sometimes, with a lot of compression on the track, you have to turn those breaths way way down. A lot of times what I actually do is to split the item and mess with the start time and fade in time to make the breath both shorter and softer. It's kind of hard to explain but it actually does work reasonably well a lot of times.

Now, if it's overcompresed, then it's overcompressed, but sometimes that's what you're going for, and sometimes the only way to get acceptable results is to do some automation on the other side of the compression. If you need the track V envelope for something else, you might automate the output gain on the compressor or like any other convenient gain knob after it or insert JS Volume. Or put the track in folder of its own so you have two track envelopes to work with.
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:14 PM   #18
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For breathing spectral editing is the most professional solution. Built in BTW
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
but I usually use Take Volume for this too. Sometimes, with a lot of compression on the track, you have to turn those breaths way way down. A lot of times what I actually do is to split the item and mess with the start time and fade in time to make the breath both shorter and softer. It's kind of hard to explain but it actually does work reasonably well a lot of times.
Yeah, me to, my vocal tracks usually end up all split up for one reason or another. But I do use the take envelope
for most all my vocal editing, even though we also have the trim envelope to go with the track Volume envelope so we're
certainly not at a loss for volume control. Heh heh, add the item volume control and it gets a little ridiculous.

Back in the old days, all I had was the trim along with the fader on my studio boards for the multi-track tape. We also
had the track outputs on the tape decks, but I seldom used them.

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For breathing spectral editing is the most professional solution. Built in BTW
Humm, not sure why you would say that urednik, does it have something you find to be faster, or better?
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:43 AM   #20
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Indeed, Myk, Serr's suggestion is not OTT, as I thought myself when I first learned about it. See Yoad Nevo doing exactly this himself, and hear him explain why. It all does make sense!

Watch video: https://www.waves.com/setting-up-a-mix-webinar from 21:05 to 23:20 (you'll need a Waves account, though, because it can only be viewed after logging in).
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