Want to buy a new Mac - Specs?

Stringtheorist · 08-03-2012, 08:12 AM

I've come to the conclusion that my 2007 iMac isn't going to cut it any more. I'm rapidly filling the available storage space and I figure I'll need a lot more than 4GB of RAM if I want to compose anything more sophisticated than 4-track rock band tracks.

I am only a hobbyist at this point but I am interested in potentially becoming more seriously involved in writing, recording and production as my skills improve.

I currently own the following sound libraries:
NI Studio Drummer
NI Abbey Road 70s Drums
NI Abbey Road Modern Drums
Toontrack EZDrummer
Toontrack Twisted Kit
Toontrack Latin Percussion
Yellow Tools ERA - Medieval Legends
KLI Country Roots
Zero G Celtic

I also intend to get the following:
Spectrasonics Trilian
EastWest QL Complete Composers Collection

My intention is to store all of the sound libraries on the hard drive supplied with the EastWest product, although some folks say it's best to split the libraries over several drives. Anyone have any wisdom to share on this?

I think the following Mac configuration should suit my needs but would appreciate any input from seasoned recording peeps on this forum. (Of course, a new Mac will come with Mountain Lion installed as standard. Normally I would wait a while after a new OS release before purchase but I need it now really and it seems most folks who have used ML are not having too many issues.)

3.1GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
16GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x4GB
2TB Serial ATA Drive
AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1GB GDDR5

Thanks.

mike373 · 08-03-2012, 02:53 PM

ok.... a couple things...

First....all these libraries should be on an external drive. Your computer will run A LOT more efficiently. Also....your tracks should be recorded on an external drive.

Second... I am running a 2007 IMAC as well with 4 gigs of ram, and it has plenty of gas to mix many of my 30+ track recordings with several plugins at the same time without a hiccup.

Not sure if you are looking for an excuse to buy a new machine....but what you have already should be just fine for what you say your needs are.

Mike

Stringtheorist · 08-03-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike373

ok.... a couple things...

First....all these libraries should be on an external drive. Your computer will run A LOT more efficiently. Also....your tracks should be recorded on an external drive.

Second... I am running a 2007 IMAC as well with 4 gigs of ram, and it has plenty of gas to mix many of my 30+ track recordings with several plugins at the same time without a hiccup.

Not sure if you are looking for an excuse to buy a new machine....but what you have already should be just fine for what you say your needs are.

Mike

Actually, I'd rather save my money to be honest. I guess if I'm loading them all onto an external drive I'll be able to free a lot of storage space I'm currently using.

Are you suggesting installing Reaper on an external drive or only storing the audio data there?

Are you using any of the EWQL libraries? 4GB RAM is recommended as optimal for these (I only have 3GB but I can upgrade). Some folks at the EW forum swear that 4GB isn't nearly enough and are recommending up to 16GB but I've no idea what sort of work these people are producing.

Glad to know I don't need to rush out and buy a new Mac anyway.

mike373 · 08-03-2012, 03:20 PM

Yeah...you really should be fine. Install reaper on your internal drive. Record all tracks to external drive, and store all libraries on another external drive.....or in a pinch, libraries can be on the same external drive as recording tracks

3 gigs should be ok...but if you can...max machine out to 4gigs. Not a lot of money anymore to do this...should be under $100..

I'm assuming your machine is around 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo??? If so...that should be just fine

Mike

Stringtheorist · 08-03-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike373

Yeah...you really should be fine. Install reaper on your internal drive. Record all tracks to external drive, and store all libraries on another external drive.....or in a pinch, libraries can be on the same external drive as recording tracks

3 gigs should be ok...but if you can...max machine out to 4gigs. Not a lot of money anymore to do this...should be under $100..

I'm assuming your machine is around 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo??? If so...that should be just fine

Mike

Yeah, 2.4GHz. What sort of capacity HD do you recommend for the recording tracks?

TimOBrien · 08-03-2012, 06:00 PM

See my specs..... I'm running the base model iMac with lotsa ram and outboard drives.

Best setup for ANY daw:

OS, apps and plugins on boot drive
Sample libraries on separate drive
Audio projects/track on another separate drive.

serr · 08-03-2012, 11:42 PM

I'd put a SSD inside the iMac and then get a 7200rpm firewire external drive.
Hard drive is what's slowing you down. Look at Activity Monitor when you're running. I bet you'll find your CPU and ram are far from 100%.

Stringtheorist · 08-04-2012, 12:05 AM

The SSDs Apple supply with new Macs have very little capacity compared to the standard drives they put in. I'm also running out of USB ports so would like to use the Firewire 800 for the sample library drive. The remaining port is a FW400. Can I get a drive that will connect there?

Do I need to install the library (eg. Studio Drummer) on the external drive or can the data be manually transferred over from my HD after installation?

serr · 08-04-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringtheorist

The SSDs Apple supply with new Macs have very little capacity compared to the standard drives they put in. I'm also running out of USB ports so would like to use the Firewire 800 for the sample library drive. The remaining port is a FW400. Can I get a drive that will connect there?

Do I need to install the library (eg. Studio Drummer) on the external drive or can the data be manually transferred over from my HD after installation?

Who cares what Apple supplies for SSD's. Just get the best one for the price. About $200 for a 256GB SSD these days. That may seem like it's expensive at first but you could spend 10 times that much on a new computer and not get the performance that your current machine with a SSD would give you. This is where the bottleneck is.

Firewire 400 can be adapted to a FW800 jack. Completely backwards compatible.

Usually samples are loaded in ram. Check the app(s) in question. Point is that drive speed would only affect sample loading time. I'm willing to bet you still have a slow 5400rpm drive in that iMac so any firewire enclosure with a 7200rpm drive plugged into FW400 would be a upgrade there anyway.

Don't use USB drives for anything to do with audio. Use USB drives for backup drives only.

Put your OS and apps on the SSD drive. If you do have any libraries that read off the drive, put just these on the SSD. Get a 2TB external for storage. You should still have a large space on the SSD for workspace.

I use Carbon Copy Cloner to copy volumes. Easy.
If you have some authorized stuff that reads the serial number of your drive in it's travels, the company WILL give you a new auth file. People upgrade their machines all the time. Probably automated on their webpage. Usually they just look at the computer's serial number when they do that though. Shouldn't need to manually install anything.

Now if you have stuff that you, um, acquired... well, those are the hoops you get to jump thru when you do that.

Stringtheorist · 08-04-2012, 07:51 AM

Let's see... Assuming I stick with my current Mac, the internal hard drive is too slow for file library access so I should use the external drive from East West for all my samples and an additional (solid state?) drive for recording tracks... both connected via FireWire. Plus a Time Machine drive via USB. Do I have that right?

Stringtheorist · 08-04-2012, 11:34 AM

What should I use for a Time Machine drive? I'd be wanting to back up all my work. USB or Firewire for this?

serr · 08-04-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringtheorist

Let's see... Assuming I stick with my current Mac, the internal hard drive is too slow for file library access so I should use the external drive from East West for all my samples and an additional (solid state?) drive for recording tracks... both connected via FireWire. Plus a Time Machine drive via USB. Do I have that right?

No sir!
Replace the internal drive with a SSD. This will be used for OS, apps and workspace.

Then put large libraries and data on your external.

PS. hard drive swap is extremely fast and simple on the 2007 iMac. See iFixit.com if it's your first time.

Stringtheorist · 08-04-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

No sir!
Replace the internal drive with a SSD. This will be used for OS, apps and workspace.

Then put large libraries and data on your external.

PS. hard drive swap is extremely fast and simple on the 2007 iMac. See iFixit.com if it's your first time.

I don't have the confidence to go opening up my iMac although I might see if I can find someone else to do it.

serr · 08-04-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringtheorist

OK. I don't have the confidence to go opening up my iMac although I might see if I can find someone else to do it.

Look at that website just to see if nothing else. This would be real basic for any tech savy friend.

Again, not to talk you out of a new computer but this would be targeting your weak spot and give you the biggest bang for the buck.

It is critical that the SSD be internal here. Anything else would defeat the purpose. Only thunderbolt is appropriate for an external SSD and those enclosures are pricy right now.

Stringtheorist · 08-04-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

Look at that website just to see if nothing else. This would be real basic for any tech savy friend.

Again, not to talk you out of a new computer but this would be targeting your weak spot and give you the biggest bang for the buck.

It is critical that the SSD be internal here. Anything else would defeat the purpose. Only thunderbolt is appropriate for an external SSD and those enclosures are pricy right now.

Are lots of other recording folks replacing their internal hard drives with SSDs?

Kundalinguist · 08-04-2012, 12:37 PM

String, baby, don't forget to consider a PC. I'm a total Mac head but moved my audio work to PC for cheaper horsepower and to avoid replacing my hardware every time Apple farts.

Just a thought, cause you could probably save half your money to buy something else. Especially if you build it custom. For advice, ask in this forum too, we do it all...

Stringtheorist · 08-04-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kundalinguist

String, baby, don't forget to consider a PC. I'm a total Mac head but moved my audio work to PC for cheaper horsepower and to avoid replacing my hardware every time Apple farts.

Just a thought, cause you could probably save half your money to buy something else. Especially if you build it custom. For advice, ask in this forum too, we do it all...

Er... thanks but no thanks. I know there is wisdom in what you're saying but after all the hassle I had with a PC I'll never EVER go back. Life's just too short.

serr · 08-04-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kundalinguist

String, baby, don't forget to consider a PC. I'm a total Mac head but moved my audio work to PC for cheaper horsepower and to avoid replacing my hardware every time Apple farts.

Just a thought, cause you could probably save half your money to buy something else. Especially if you build it custom. For advice, ask in this forum too, we do it all...

I don't care what CPU/motherboard you're running or what OS. The hard drive i/o speed is the same for both camps. This is the bottleneck in every machine including the newest of the new. I have the fastest Mac Pro on the planet right now and I still need a SSD to do the live mixing plus multitracking that I do.

Haha, the issues I see Windows users talking about on this forum just blow my mind! How much are all the hours worth spend trying to make it work.

I buy Mac's used and do specific hardware upgrades as the need arises. I'm not spending any more than you, trust me.

A SSD upgrade has nothing to do with what Apple had for lunch. They didn't invent this. It's new technology that upgrades the slowest i/o connection of any computer. Now you can actually use that processing power that was previously waiting for the hard drive all the time. Same components you'd put in a Windows machine.

Kundalinguist · 08-04-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

I don't care what CPU/motherboard you're running or what OS. The hard drive i/o speed is the same for both camps. This is the bottleneck in every machine including the newest of the new. I have the fastest Mac Pro on the planet right now and I still need a SSD to do the live mixing plus multitracking that I do.

Haha, the issues I see Windows users talking about on this forum just blow my mind! How much are all the hours worth spend trying to make it work.

I buy Mac's used and do specific hardware upgrades as the need arises. I'm not spending any more than you, trust me.

A SSD upgrade has nothing to do with what Apple had for lunch. They didn't invent this. It's new technology that upgrades the slowest i/o connection of any computer. Now you can actually use that processing power that was previously waiting for the hard drive all the time. Same components you'd put in a Windows machine.

Hey, no need to get all pentacostal on me, Jeremiah.

I've been using Macs since 1993 for my professional graphics work and am typing to your smug little reply on an old G5.

mrelwood · 08-04-2012, 04:11 PM

Yay! Let's turn also this one to a Mac vs PC fight! I'm totally sure it'll help the OP make the right decision for him/her. Totally.

Kundalinguist · 08-04-2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrelwood

Yay! Let's turn also this one to a Mac vs PC fight! I'm totally sure it'll help the OP make the right decision for him/her. Totally.

Did you read the posts or just react to them? I'm using both platforms. I have no problem with that. If someone else does, that their problem.

mrelwood · 08-04-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kundalinguist

Did you read the posts or just react to them?

Of course I read the thread, twice before commenting. And I have a very strong opinion on the Mac vs PC matter. But it's not related to the topic so I'll teach myself some more self-control and refrain from writing it here. The op made his opinion clear, so let's respect that.

Edit: Besides, Kunda, my comment was not pointed at you.

Kundalinguist · 08-04-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrelwood

...
Edit: Besides, Kunda, my comment was not pointed at you.

I couldn't tell. That's why I asked.

Snap · 08-05-2012, 02:17 AM

Quote:

String, baby, don't forget to consider a PC. I'm a total Mac head but moved my audio work to PC for cheaper horsepower and to avoid replacing my hardware every time Apple farts.

More or less the same here. But I stopped using Macs. What I love is the OS. I use an HP XW8400 Hackintosh with dual boot Mac OS X and Win. Best option for me. Second hand, it costed me a half the price of an equivalent MacPro of the same year having the same processors. Same power half price. I use both mac and Win Reaper installs. Want to upgrade any time soon but still plenty of power here and no issues.

Win use or not you, you don't need to pay the expense of the Mac hardware. Have a look at iBoot and Multibeast.

Oh, and don't forget to put an Apple sticker somewhere on the hardware. AFAIK, using a retail Mac OS DVD on any hardware is legal as long as you put that Apple ID on the hardware.

mrelwood · 08-06-2012, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serr

Don't use USB drives for anything to do with audio. Use USB drives for backup drives only.

This is a bit controversial. If you are recording 24 tracks of 44.1/24 through FW400 like I sometimes am, it might not be a good idea to cram anything else to the same FW port. Do test your setup properly first ofcourse.

USB 3.0 is a bit of a different animal than 2.0, and I have understood it to be perfectly capable for audio work.

Stringtheorist · 08-31-2012, 11:39 PM

Well, I upgraded my machine. Maxed the RAM to 4GB, had the original drive swapped out for an SSD, and added an external drive. Already I am having problems with one of my EW Symphonic Orchestra instruments sounding garbled after working on a project for 30min or so.

mrelwood · 09-01-2012, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringtheorist

Already I am having problems with one of my EW Symphonic Orchestra instruments sounding garbled after working on a project for 30min or so.

How are the CPU, memory usage and audio block size when that happens?

Stringtheorist · 09-01-2012, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrelwood

How are the CPU, memory usage and audio block size when that happens?

Next time it happens I'll make a note of it.