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Old 02-28-2021, 03:50 PM   #1
gbuckels
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Default Importing a midi song file?

I can import or drag a midi file into Reaper, Cakewalk and or Reason and the song loads into separate tracks according to the particular midi file structure. In both Cakewalk and Reason the separate tracks (exploded) are assigned outputs automatically to instrument sounds equivalent to what was intended and it plays and is heard through the speakers.But not Reaper, the meters move but no sound. The device is set to general midi. I have searched everywhere except for the right place for a solution or explanation. Anybody? I'm not using a controller. Just want to hear some midi files and try out the famous Reaper midi editor.
Thanks, Gary
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:46 PM   #2
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I believe you have to assign instruments to each track to hear them.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbuckels View Post
I can import or drag a midi file into Reaper, Cakewalk and or Reason and the song loads into separate tracks according to the particular midi file structure. In both Cakewalk and Reason the separate tracks (exploded) are assigned outputs automatically to instrument sounds equivalent to what was intended and it plays and is heard through the speakers.But not Reaper, the meters move but no sound. The device is set to general midi. I have searched everywhere except for the right place for a solution or explanation. Anybody? I'm not using a controller. Just want to hear some midi files and try out the famous Reaper midi editor.
Thanks, Gary
Good point.
It is a great frustration for me over the last 10 years .
Reaper is so good at so many things except some basic things that may be uncovered with the right jigsaw of settings or a home made convoluted script

It would be great if we just had a means of opening a multi track midi file and at least have the instrument names on the track.
This easy in cubase and other daws as they have their own vst instruments .
That should not stop reaper from at least clearly naming the instruments on the track name

Unless I'm missing something here?
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:13 PM   #4
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Much too complicated and time consuming for something that should be simple.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbuckels View Post
I can import or drag a midi file into Reaper, Cakewalk and or Reason and the song loads into separate tracks according to the particular midi file structure. In both Cakewalk and Reason the separate tracks (exploded) are assigned outputs automatically to instrument sounds equivalent to what was intended and it plays and is heard through the speakers.But not Reaper, the meters move but no sound. The device is set to general midi. I have searched everywhere except for the right place for a solution or explanation. Anybody? I'm not using a controller . Just want to hear some midi files and try out the famous Reaper midi editor.
Thanks, Gary
That`s complicated
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Old 02-28-2021, 08:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard View Post
Good point.
It is a great frustration for me over the last 10 years .
Reaper is so good at so many things except some basic things that may be uncovered with the right jigsaw of settings or a home made convoluted script

It would be great if we just had a means of opening a multi track midi file and at least have the instrument names on the track.
This easy in cubase and other daws as they have their own vst instruments .
That should not stop reaper from at least clearly naming the instruments on the track name

Unless I'm missing something here?
I purchased CubaseLE11 a little while back and hadn't used it much yet, so I tried the midi file and it loaded up nicely.
I did load up a vst plugin on the midi tracks on Reaper and it worked. But I don't want to send a ship to the moon, just play a midi file.
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard View Post
Good point.
It is a great frustration for me over the last 10 years .
Reaper is so good at so many things except some basic things that may be uncovered with the right jigsaw of settings or a home made convoluted script

It would be great if we just had a means of opening a multi track midi file and at least have the instrument names on the track.
This easy in cubase and other daws as they have their own vst instruments .
That should not stop reaper from at least clearly naming the instruments on the track name

Unless I'm missing something here?
I just imported a midi version of The Police song "Bring On The Night" that I downloaded a few years ago and it does have the instrument names on the tracks, so I'd speculate that it depends on the midi file that you import.
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:39 PM   #8
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Is this what you need to do ?

There's also
ReaTrak send selected midi tracks channels to track x.lua

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Old 03-01-2021, 03:18 AM   #9
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They are all called "acoustic bass" and that is the problem
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:55 AM   #10
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The "name" doesn't select the instrument. The PC (program change is what does that. You can put in any name you wish e.g. Many midis might use tracks 1-5 to say "Dont copy this midi track"!!

dB
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Old 03-01-2021, 09:19 AM   #11
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Dr. Bob, to your knowledge, is it possible for Reaper to automatically import the "correct" instrument, assuming the midi file has the correct PC setting? I can conceive of some setting where a track with MIDI automatically defaults to General MIDI, and can therefore play without further intervention, but I have no idea if that's currently a thing.
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Old 03-01-2021, 10:39 AM   #12
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It depends how the VST you are using as the sound source responds to the PC setting. If it's a GM synth (and the track was created assuming GM as well!), then the likely outcome is you get the correct instrument as per the 128 GM defined sounds. Or, some synths have GM sound sets/banks, e.g. Synth1, which you can load in. So, if the PC is value 1, then a GM synth gives you acoustic piano, AND, if you loaded a GM sound bank in "non-GM" synth should also find acoustic piano as sound 1.

dB
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:55 AM   #13
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Let me clarify my original post. Can or does Reaper open a new pre-made midi file and route it to tracks with the instruments loaded up to play the song automatically like other daw's or do I have to go to each track and try to figure which sound goes where and what instrument to use?
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:43 PM   #14
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I just loaded up a midi file that i created probably 20 to 25 years ago in cakewalk.
6 separate tracks, general midi...

If for each track -> routing -> midi hardware output -> microsoft gs wavetable synth...

The correct instruments play for each track... obviously, they are defined in the midi file.

I assume you could create a template where the first so many tracks have this routing set up; then import a midi file...

Note that the audio plays thru my notebook audio output and not my interface. That’s another matter. If that is desired, i am sure there is a general midi vsti that would do the same thing with audio output going to the interface. Again, i assume you would be able to set up a template.

Last edited by b2001; 03-01-2021 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 03-01-2021, 02:35 PM   #15
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Here's a video
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnseviamu0...-Midi.mp4?dl=0
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:02 PM   #16
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OK. Take a standard midi file.

Drag it using media explorer to a track, or double click.

Then, make sure the box to expand to "n" tracks is NOT checked, and then say you want a multichannel item on a SINGLE track.

In the HARDWARE routing for that track, on Windows, choose the Microsoft GS wavetable Synth.

Press play. All instruments play as expected from the single track with the GM midi on it.

If you put a VSTi on the track, e.g. Cakewalk TTS-1, then again the midi will play correctly through this VSTi. This of course, for a GM compliant midi file, using a GM synth.

Otherwise, you can expand the midi file to it's component tracks. Each track then can either be routed to the MS WT synth, of you can put your own VSTi on the track and create your own instrumentation with various synths. Remember, channel 10 is "reserved" for drum tracks (not exclusive). Also, if you want to craft your own sounds, make sure you use the event viewer to remove the PC (program change) item for each track to prevent the track from selecting the pre-programmed sound (e.g. "factory defaults") for that midi channel in whatever VSTi you use. This way you can use a quality piano for the piano tracks, guitar synths, better drums, etc etc ... to "spice up" a midi file.

I would only use the MS GS Synth as an indication of the overall sound of the file and craft my "final version" with selected VSTi's ... many good free ones on the net.

You have to do a little work - but in the end I would suggest it helps understand MIDI a lot more once you go into it just a little bit.


dB

Last edited by Dr Bob; 03-01-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:41 PM   #17
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So the answer seems to be 'NO' (does Reaper open a new or old pre-made midi file and automatically route it to the tracks with the instruments automatically loaded up to play the song like other daw's) without making a template that would have to be changed and tracks renamed for a variety of different midi styles. That's just too much trouble. I too made midi files 25 years ago.
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:03 PM   #18
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You don't have scripting in other DAWs, in Reaper you can script it to do whatever you can conceive of, automatically.
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard View Post
They are all called "acoustic bass" and that is the problem
I had a script there somewhere that will name the track to the patch name instrument.
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:28 PM   #20
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This is in the GUI but you could just put it in a script to to that automatically

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Old 03-01-2021, 05:29 PM   #21
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No DAW is going to be able to "automatically loaded up to play the song" unless it's a GM file and that particular DAW has built-in default GM playback.

If the MIDI file is not GM, then EVERY DAW is going to require you to manually assign an instrument to each track.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:05 PM   #22
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Gm midi is the only expectation here .

Perhaps a gm template with track names as per gm and vsts assigned to what you have would be the goal.

Other daws do auto this automatically and im sure reaper can do it but doing several steps should not be necessary and is a creative block.

Having tried many times to create such a template with no real success.

It easier to just run cubase or sonar losing just a little reaper respect every time .

Please if any one has made a template that has gm track names and will import a gm midi file with consistency ..It would solve the problem that many here are facing .

Perhaps my age and mentality is a problem?

Many thanks to the well shown but convoluted way that it can be done ..and yes I can do that but surely it should just be open file on separate tracks.
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Old 03-01-2021, 07:47 PM   #23
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https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=612

Set midi instrument track name from selected items.eel

You could get it to set each track to the synth you want,
or
Click on one track then hit Control A to select all the tracks
Right click on one of the I/O buttons
Select MIDI Output > MS GS Wavetable Synth >Send All. This will set all the tracks

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Old 03-01-2021, 08:00 PM   #24
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How would any midi file load the "correct" instrument? Does the creator of the midi file know what instruments you have installed?
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:13 PM   #25
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All of my 800 plus midi files have GM, channel, volume, pan, program change, events etc...
But that 'Reastyler' looks interesting. Is that easily available?
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusoBob View Post
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=612

Set midi instrument track name from selected items.eel

You could get it to set each track to the synth you want,
or
Click on one track then hit Control A to select all the tracks
Right click on one of the I/O buttons
Select MIDI Output > MS GS Wavetable Synth >Send All. This will set all the tracks

Full Screen
Thank You MusoBob,
This gif is worth a thousand words. I'll try it.
Gary
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Old 03-01-2021, 08:31 PM   #27
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I had a look at the ReaStyler script and it uses some of the other ReaTrak scripts so it might be easy just to install the latest ReaTrak for it all to work. It will convert any yamaha keyboard STY to a midi then snap it to the chord track but might be easier to use JJazzLab then import that midi to Reaper.
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Old 03-01-2021, 09:48 PM   #28
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I don't have and or I can't find an output button on the midi track headers? I guess I should be posting in the beginners section!
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:09 PM   #29
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You need to enable them in Preferences.
There is also Coolsoft VirtualMidiSynth and OmniMidi that you call load a GM Soundfont in and use them.

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Old 03-02-2021, 01:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
How would any midi file load the "correct" instrument? Does the creator of the midi file know what instruments you have installed?
I have been led to believe that GM midi does have standard imstrument assigns.

Of course you would have to use instruments that you have but you would know what they are supposed to be , there would be track names eg guitar piano vibraphone helicopter bass etc .
This info is in a gm midi file.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

If its not a gm midi file then the deal is off ...but often times all you want is the basics which should not need multiple steps
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:57 AM   #31
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This is the instrument, it can also have a change that may go from 28 Muted Guitar to 27 Clean Guitar.

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Old 03-02-2021, 03:27 AM   #32
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These days, MIDI files can often fail to subscribe to what used to be the basic conventions.
Back in the day GM (general MIDI) was initially the agreed convention for instrument naming/numbering and of course channel allocation. Then came Yamaha and Roland, wanting to have more flexibility & inventing their own systems.... XG & GS.
The majority of people who write MIDI files (SMF) back then conformed to one or more of these three "conventions" & eventually GM/GS, being closest to each other, took the lions share, so DAWs and sequencers could use GM/GS safe in the knowledge that it would work for the majority of users.

Unfortunately that has all fallen by the wayside these days as less & less people buy ready-sequenced MIDI backing tracks.

Reaper having arrived on the scene after the heyday of GM/GS and Justin initially not really being that involved in MIDI files, the initial releases would absorb standard MIDI files into it`s own system (still does) & no real attempt was made to follow the GM or GS or even XG standard.

THIS is why we are now stuck with the existing situation.
I and many others have talked about this for years & maybe something will now finally get done about it, but in the meantime....

IF your SMF (standard MIDI FILE) is correctly recorded, you should have all the detail you need in terms of instruments, channels & settings within the MIDI files.
So once you know what you are doing with MIDI, it is really easy to identify whether or not you have a GM, GS or XG file & set things up appropriately.

IF you have a correctly written MIDI file player instrument like the old Cakewalk TTS-1 or the Roland Virtual Sound Canvas, you CAN just drop the SMF in a track containing the SMF player VST and it will all just work, same as in any other daw.

So the issue here is not down to a lack on Reaper`s part - although this does appear to be an easy fix to me, just teach Reaper how to read and report on the control code in a SMF - but the author(s) of the multi-instrument VSTis that don`t sense & follow SMF formats.

Maybe we should all do what I did & get hold of a VSTi that will follow this stuff & then substitute your preferred instruments. And of course LEARN MORE about MIDi if you want to use it. See my offering in the newbie section about the basics of MIDI. Several excellent booklets out there covering all this
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Old 03-02-2021, 05:07 AM   #33
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It often seems that people seem to make basic GM playback in Reaper much more complicated than it needs to be.
Once you have a suitable sound generator (this plugin for example - https://www.kvraudio.com/product/s_yxg50_by_yamaha)
then all you need to do is
load the MIDI file
make a parent track encompassing the MIDI tracks
load the sound generator on the parent track.
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Old 03-02-2021, 07:04 AM   #34
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I think the OP just wants to load a MIDI file and have it play without doing anything else to make Reaper do it. Not possible but ...

The simplest set of steps is

Insert/Media file "file.mid" and UNCHECK the "Expand n MIDI tracks to new Reaper tracks".

Then to actually play this file (assuming all the caveats about SMF) you need a VSTi because Reaper does not provide a GM one out of the box (for all the reasons we all know about).

1. You can put a GM synth VSTi on the track (e.g. TTS-1, Roland, Yamaha)

OR

2. in the routing for the track select the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth for the Hardware output.

4 or 5 mouse clicks.

The only way this is going to happen in Reaper with a single "import a MIDI file" action is if Reaper also has its own GM Synth in with the distribution - and we all know, this is NOT the Reaper philosophy.

dB
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Old 03-02-2021, 07:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard View Post
I have been led to believe that GM midi does have standard imstrument assigns.

Of course you would have to use instruments that you have but you would know what they are supposed to be , there would be track names eg guitar piano vibraphone helicopter bass etc .
This info is in a gm midi file.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

If its not a gm midi file then the deal is off ...but often times all you want is the basics which should not need multiple steps
Aha. That's cool! I did not know that.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:43 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
I think the OP just wants to load a MIDI file and have it play without doing anything else to make Reaper do it. Not possible but ...

The simplest set of steps is

Insert/Media file "file.mid" and UNCHECK the "Expand n MIDI tracks to new Reaper tracks".

Then to actually play this file (assuming all the caveats about SMF) you need a VSTi because Reaper does not provide a GM one out of the box (for all the reasons we all know about).

1. You can put a GM synth VSTi on the track (e.g. TTS-1, Roland, Yamaha)

OR

2. in the routing for the track select the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth for the Hardware output.

4 or 5 mouse clicks.

The only way this is going to happen in Reaper with a single "import a MIDI file" action is if Reaper also has its own GM Synth in with the distribution - and we all know, this is NOT the Reaper philosophy.

dB
Nice clear, concise answer! "You can't do exactly that, but here's something that's pretty close."

Seems like it would be possible to set up a track template like this, and then just drag and drop the MIDI file? Or am I missing something?
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:55 AM   #37
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Track template? ... Why not give it a go ... ;-)
dB
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:06 AM   #38
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Nice and interesting thread. Thanks to @gbuckels for starting it! Very instructive suggestions of all you posters.
I also had some troubles when I started using Reaper and trying to get Kontakt instruments to play imported MIDI files which I separated in instrument-specific tracks. Usually, I had to clean up the MIDI files, e.g. I had to mute CC messages in the event list and check out and correct MIDI channels. In addition, quite often, the octave setting of an instrument within Reaper is different to the one within another MIDI software. As Ivansc said, there can a lot of non-standard thingies be hidden in a MIDI file, too.
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:22 AM   #39
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So many "silent" VSTi's can mainly be attributed to using the wrong MIDI channel, not having a patch selected, some other "non-standard" stuff interfering.

I have seen many a MIDI file with strange things. Quite common are missing note-off's - usually because someone has chopped up a MIDI file or some other "processing"!

Removing the PC is a usual thing to do - or changing it - but make sure then that you also change the channel of any CC's. Other things like reverbs/chorus etc can also foul up your replay, depending on your VSTi.

Sometimes the note lengths are wrong, and you then need to delve into the piano roll etc and "fix" the problems.

In the end, some understanding of MIDI and the format of a MIDI file can help.

dB
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:58 AM   #40
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In the beginning I was actually pretty frustrated. I guess, this happens to not that few beginners. But after watching some of Kenny's video tutorials and reading forum posts I was pointed to the right points.
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