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02-28-2021, 03:50 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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Importing a midi song file?
I can import or drag a midi file into Reaper, Cakewalk and or Reason and the song loads into separate tracks according to the particular midi file structure. In both Cakewalk and Reason the separate tracks (exploded) are assigned outputs automatically to instrument sounds equivalent to what was intended and it plays and is heard through the speakers.But not Reaper, the meters move but no sound. The device is set to general midi. I have searched everywhere except for the right place for a solution or explanation. Anybody? I'm not using a controller. Just want to hear some midi files and try out the famous Reaper midi editor.
Thanks, Gary
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02-28-2021, 05:46 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 976
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I believe you have to assign instruments to each track to hear them.
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02-28-2021, 07:00 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbuckels
I can import or drag a midi file into Reaper, Cakewalk and or Reason and the song loads into separate tracks according to the particular midi file structure. In both Cakewalk and Reason the separate tracks (exploded) are assigned outputs automatically to instrument sounds equivalent to what was intended and it plays and is heard through the speakers.But not Reaper, the meters move but no sound. The device is set to general midi. I have searched everywhere except for the right place for a solution or explanation. Anybody? I'm not using a controller. Just want to hear some midi files and try out the famous Reaper midi editor.
Thanks, Gary
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Good point.
It is a great frustration for me over the last 10 years .
Reaper is so good at so many things except some basic things that may be uncovered with the right jigsaw of settings or a home made convoluted script
It would be great if we just had a means of opening a multi track midi file and at least have the instrument names on the track.
This easy in cubase and other daws as they have their own vst instruments .
That should not stop reaper from at least clearly naming the instruments on the track name
Unless I'm missing something here?
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02-28-2021, 07:13 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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Much too complicated and time consuming for something that should be simple.
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02-28-2021, 07:43 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbuckels
I can import or drag a midi file into Reaper, Cakewalk and or Reason and the song loads into separate tracks according to the particular midi file structure. In both Cakewalk and Reason the separate tracks (exploded) are assigned outputs automatically to instrument sounds equivalent to what was intended and it plays and is heard through the speakers.But not Reaper, the meters move but no sound. The device is set to general midi. I have searched everywhere except for the right place for a solution or explanation. Anybody? I'm not using a controller . Just want to hear some midi files and try out the famous Reaper midi editor.
Thanks, Gary
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That`s complicated
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02-28-2021, 08:06 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard
Good point.
It is a great frustration for me over the last 10 years .
Reaper is so good at so many things except some basic things that may be uncovered with the right jigsaw of settings or a home made convoluted script
It would be great if we just had a means of opening a multi track midi file and at least have the instrument names on the track.
This easy in cubase and other daws as they have their own vst instruments .
That should not stop reaper from at least clearly naming the instruments on the track name
Unless I'm missing something here?
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I purchased CubaseLE11 a little while back and hadn't used it much yet, so I tried the midi file and it loaded up nicely.
I did load up a vst plugin on the midi tracks on Reaper and it worked. But I don't want to send a ship to the moon, just play a midi file.
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02-28-2021, 09:24 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard
Good point.
It is a great frustration for me over the last 10 years .
Reaper is so good at so many things except some basic things that may be uncovered with the right jigsaw of settings or a home made convoluted script
It would be great if we just had a means of opening a multi track midi file and at least have the instrument names on the track.
This easy in cubase and other daws as they have their own vst instruments .
That should not stop reaper from at least clearly naming the instruments on the track name
Unless I'm missing something here?
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I just imported a midi version of The Police song "Bring On The Night" that I downloaded a few years ago and it does have the instrument names on the tracks, so I'd speculate that it depends on the midi file that you import.
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02-28-2021, 10:39 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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03-01-2021, 03:18 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 307
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They are all called "acoustic bass" and that is the problem
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03-01-2021, 07:55 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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The "name" doesn't select the instrument. The PC (program change is what does that. You can put in any name you wish e.g. Many midis might use tracks 1-5 to say "Dont copy this midi track"!!
dB
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03-01-2021, 09:19 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 976
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Dr. Bob, to your knowledge, is it possible for Reaper to automatically import the "correct" instrument, assuming the midi file has the correct PC setting? I can conceive of some setting where a track with MIDI automatically defaults to General MIDI, and can therefore play without further intervention, but I have no idea if that's currently a thing.
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03-01-2021, 10:39 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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It depends how the VST you are using as the sound source responds to the PC setting. If it's a GM synth (and the track was created assuming GM as well!), then the likely outcome is you get the correct instrument as per the 128 GM defined sounds. Or, some synths have GM sound sets/banks, e.g. Synth1, which you can load in. So, if the PC is value 1, then a GM synth gives you acoustic piano, AND, if you loaded a GM sound bank in "non-GM" synth should also find acoustic piano as sound 1.
dB
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03-01-2021, 11:55 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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Let me clarify my original post. Can or does Reaper open a new pre-made midi file and route it to tracks with the instruments loaded up to play the song automatically like other daw's or do I have to go to each track and try to figure which sound goes where and what instrument to use?
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03-01-2021, 01:43 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 671
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I just loaded up a midi file that i created probably 20 to 25 years ago in cakewalk.
6 separate tracks, general midi...
If for each track -> routing -> midi hardware output -> microsoft gs wavetable synth...
The correct instruments play for each track... obviously, they are defined in the midi file.
I assume you could create a template where the first so many tracks have this routing set up; then import a midi file...
Note that the audio plays thru my notebook audio output and not my interface. That’s another matter. If that is desired, i am sure there is a general midi vsti that would do the same thing with audio output going to the interface. Again, i assume you would be able to set up a template.
Last edited by b2001; 03-01-2021 at 01:51 PM.
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03-01-2021, 02:35 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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03-01-2021, 04:02 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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OK. Take a standard midi file.
Drag it using media explorer to a track, or double click.
Then, make sure the box to expand to "n" tracks is NOT checked, and then say you want a multichannel item on a SINGLE track.
In the HARDWARE routing for that track, on Windows, choose the Microsoft GS wavetable Synth.
Press play. All instruments play as expected from the single track with the GM midi on it.
If you put a VSTi on the track, e.g. Cakewalk TTS-1, then again the midi will play correctly through this VSTi. This of course, for a GM compliant midi file, using a GM synth.
Otherwise, you can expand the midi file to it's component tracks. Each track then can either be routed to the MS WT synth, of you can put your own VSTi on the track and create your own instrumentation with various synths. Remember, channel 10 is "reserved" for drum tracks (not exclusive). Also, if you want to craft your own sounds, make sure you use the event viewer to remove the PC (program change) item for each track to prevent the track from selecting the pre-programmed sound (e.g. "factory defaults") for that midi channel in whatever VSTi you use. This way you can use a quality piano for the piano tracks, guitar synths, better drums, etc etc ... to "spice up" a midi file.
I would only use the MS GS Synth as an indication of the overall sound of the file and craft my "final version" with selected VSTi's ... many good free ones on the net.
You have to do a little work - but in the end I would suggest it helps understand MIDI a lot more once you go into it just a little bit.
dB
Last edited by Dr Bob; 03-01-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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03-01-2021, 04:41 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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So the answer seems to be 'NO' (does Reaper open a new or old pre-made midi file and automatically route it to the tracks with the instruments automatically loaded up to play the song like other daw's) without making a template that would have to be changed and tracks renamed for a variety of different midi styles. That's just too much trouble. I too made midi files 25 years ago.
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03-01-2021, 05:03 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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You don't have scripting in other DAWs, in Reaper you can script it to do whatever you can conceive of, automatically.
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03-01-2021, 05:07 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard
They are all called "acoustic bass" and that is the problem
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I had a script there somewhere that will name the track to the patch name instrument.
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03-01-2021, 05:28 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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This is in the GUI but you could just put it in a script to to that automatically
Full Screen
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03-01-2021, 05:29 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hackensack
Posts: 347
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No DAW is going to be able to "automatically loaded up to play the song" unless it's a GM file and that particular DAW has built-in default GM playback.
If the MIDI file is not GM, then EVERY DAW is going to require you to manually assign an instrument to each track.
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03-01-2021, 07:05 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 307
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Gm midi is the only expectation here .
Perhaps a gm template with track names as per gm and vsts assigned to what you have would be the goal.
Other daws do auto this automatically and im sure reaper can do it but doing several steps should not be necessary and is a creative block.
Having tried many times to create such a template with no real success.
It easier to just run cubase or sonar losing just a little reaper respect every time .
Please if any one has made a template that has gm track names and will import a gm midi file with consistency ..It would solve the problem that many here are facing .
Perhaps my age and mentality is a problem?
Many thanks to the well shown but convoluted way that it can be done ..and yes I can do that but surely it should just be open file on separate tracks.
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03-01-2021, 08:00 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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How would any midi file load the "correct" instrument? Does the creator of the midi file know what instruments you have installed?
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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03-01-2021, 08:13 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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All of my 800 plus midi files have GM, channel, volume, pan, program change, events etc...
But that 'Reastyler' looks interesting. Is that easily available?
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03-01-2021, 08:24 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusoBob
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Thank You MusoBob,
This gif is worth a thousand words. I'll try it.
Gary
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03-01-2021, 08:31 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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I had a look at the ReaStyler script and it uses some of the other ReaTrak scripts so it might be easy just to install the latest ReaTrak for it all to work. It will convert any yamaha keyboard STY to a midi then snap it to the chord track but might be easier to use JJazzLab then import that midi to Reaper.
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03-01-2021, 09:48 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 9
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I don't have and or I can't find an output button on the midi track headers? I guess I should be posting in the beginners section!
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03-01-2021, 11:09 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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You need to enable them in Preferences.
There is also Coolsoft VirtualMidiSynth and OmniMidi that you call load a GM Soundfont in and use them.
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03-02-2021, 01:02 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
How would any midi file load the "correct" instrument? Does the creator of the midi file know what instruments you have installed?
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I have been led to believe that GM midi does have standard imstrument assigns.
Of course you would have to use instruments that you have but you would know what they are supposed to be , there would be track names eg guitar piano vibraphone helicopter bass etc .
This info is in a gm midi file.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI
If its not a gm midi file then the deal is off ...but often times all you want is the basics which should not need multiple steps
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03-02-2021, 02:57 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,643
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This is the instrument, it can also have a change that may go from 28 Muted Guitar to 27 Clean Guitar.
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03-02-2021, 03:27 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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These days, MIDI files can often fail to subscribe to what used to be the basic conventions.
Back in the day GM (general MIDI) was initially the agreed convention for instrument naming/numbering and of course channel allocation. Then came Yamaha and Roland, wanting to have more flexibility & inventing their own systems.... XG & GS.
The majority of people who write MIDI files (SMF) back then conformed to one or more of these three "conventions" & eventually GM/GS, being closest to each other, took the lions share, so DAWs and sequencers could use GM/GS safe in the knowledge that it would work for the majority of users.
Unfortunately that has all fallen by the wayside these days as less & less people buy ready-sequenced MIDI backing tracks.
Reaper having arrived on the scene after the heyday of GM/GS and Justin initially not really being that involved in MIDI files, the initial releases would absorb standard MIDI files into it`s own system (still does) & no real attempt was made to follow the GM or GS or even XG standard.
THIS is why we are now stuck with the existing situation.
I and many others have talked about this for years & maybe something will now finally get done about it, but in the meantime....
IF your SMF (standard MIDI FILE) is correctly recorded, you should have all the detail you need in terms of instruments, channels & settings within the MIDI files.
So once you know what you are doing with MIDI, it is really easy to identify whether or not you have a GM, GS or XG file & set things up appropriately.
IF you have a correctly written MIDI file player instrument like the old Cakewalk TTS-1 or the Roland Virtual Sound Canvas, you CAN just drop the SMF in a track containing the SMF player VST and it will all just work, same as in any other daw.
So the issue here is not down to a lack on Reaper`s part - although this does appear to be an easy fix to me, just teach Reaper how to read and report on the control code in a SMF - but the author(s) of the multi-instrument VSTis that don`t sense & follow SMF formats.
Maybe we should all do what I did & get hold of a VSTi that will follow this stuff & then substitute your preferred instruments. And of course LEARN MORE about MIDi if you want to use it. See my offering in the newbie section about the basics of MIDI. Several excellent booklets out there covering all this
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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03-02-2021, 05:07 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,823
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It often seems that people seem to make basic GM playback in Reaper much more complicated than it needs to be.
Once you have a suitable sound generator (this plugin for example - https://www.kvraudio.com/product/s_yxg50_by_yamaha)
then all you need to do is
load the MIDI file
make a parent track encompassing the MIDI tracks
load the sound generator on the parent track.
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03-02-2021, 07:04 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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I think the OP just wants to load a MIDI file and have it play without doing anything else to make Reaper do it. Not possible but ...
The simplest set of steps is
Insert/Media file "file.mid" and UNCHECK the "Expand n MIDI tracks to new Reaper tracks".
Then to actually play this file (assuming all the caveats about SMF) you need a VSTi because Reaper does not provide a GM one out of the box (for all the reasons we all know about).
1. You can put a GM synth VSTi on the track (e.g. TTS-1, Roland, Yamaha)
OR
2. in the routing for the track select the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth for the Hardware output.
4 or 5 mouse clicks.
The only way this is going to happen in Reaper with a single "import a MIDI file" action is if Reaper also has its own GM Synth in with the distribution - and we all know, this is NOT the Reaper philosophy.
dB
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03-02-2021, 07:15 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzard
I have been led to believe that GM midi does have standard imstrument assigns.
Of course you would have to use instruments that you have but you would know what they are supposed to be , there would be track names eg guitar piano vibraphone helicopter bass etc .
This info is in a gm midi file.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI
If its not a gm midi file then the deal is off ...but often times all you want is the basics which should not need multiple steps
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Aha. That's cool! I did not know that.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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03-02-2021, 09:43 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bob
I think the OP just wants to load a MIDI file and have it play without doing anything else to make Reaper do it. Not possible but ...
The simplest set of steps is
Insert/Media file "file.mid" and UNCHECK the "Expand n MIDI tracks to new Reaper tracks".
Then to actually play this file (assuming all the caveats about SMF) you need a VSTi because Reaper does not provide a GM one out of the box (for all the reasons we all know about).
1. You can put a GM synth VSTi on the track (e.g. TTS-1, Roland, Yamaha)
OR
2. in the routing for the track select the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth for the Hardware output.
4 or 5 mouse clicks.
The only way this is going to happen in Reaper with a single "import a MIDI file" action is if Reaper also has its own GM Synth in with the distribution - and we all know, this is NOT the Reaper philosophy.
dB
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Nice clear, concise answer! "You can't do exactly that, but here's something that's pretty close."
Seems like it would be possible to set up a track template like this, and then just drag and drop the MIDI file? Or am I missing something?
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03-02-2021, 10:55 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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Track template? ... Why not give it a go ... ;-)
dB
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03-02-2021, 11:06 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 68
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Nice and interesting thread. Thanks to @gbuckels for starting it! Very instructive suggestions of all you posters.
I also had some troubles when I started using Reaper and trying to get Kontakt instruments to play imported MIDI files which I separated in instrument-specific tracks. Usually, I had to clean up the MIDI files, e.g. I had to mute CC messages in the event list and check out and correct MIDI channels. In addition, quite often, the octave setting of an instrument within Reaper is different to the one within another MIDI software. As Ivansc said, there can a lot of non-standard thingies be hidden in a MIDI file, too.
__________________
Jordu7
Reaper 6 most recent; Win10(64bit), i7-6700, GTX970, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, 2TB HD, OnBoard sound:7.1 Realtek ALC1150/ASUS SupremeFX; NI Komplete Audio 6, Korg Taktile-25
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03-02-2021, 11:22 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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So many "silent" VSTi's can mainly be attributed to using the wrong MIDI channel, not having a patch selected, some other "non-standard" stuff interfering.
I have seen many a MIDI file with strange things. Quite common are missing note-off's - usually because someone has chopped up a MIDI file or some other "processing"!
Removing the PC is a usual thing to do - or changing it - but make sure then that you also change the channel of any CC's. Other things like reverbs/chorus etc can also foul up your replay, depending on your VSTi.
Sometimes the note lengths are wrong, and you then need to delve into the piano roll etc and "fix" the problems.
In the end, some understanding of MIDI and the format of a MIDI file can help.
dB
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03-02-2021, 11:58 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 68
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In the beginning I was actually pretty frustrated. I guess, this happens to not that few beginners. But after watching some of Kenny's video tutorials and reading forum posts I was pointed to the right points.
__________________
Jordu7
Reaper 6 most recent; Win10(64bit), i7-6700, GTX970, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, 2TB HD, OnBoard sound:7.1 Realtek ALC1150/ASUS SupremeFX; NI Komplete Audio 6, Korg Taktile-25
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