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Old 06-27-2020, 03:57 AM   #1
Amberience
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Default Which controller should I get to replace my BCF2000?

Apologies for the n00b question.

I fancy a new controller with readout screens so I don't have to look at the monitor when I'm mixing and can just look at the controller. I wanna emulate the old console approach, but with the benefit of track banking. Controlling plugins would be cool but isn't my primary concern.

What controllers would be good for this?
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Old 06-27-2020, 07:49 AM   #2
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Hey Drew, how many faders are you looking for? Do you need transport controls?

If you're looking for a console-type approach, the Avid Artist series plus the Reaper CSI extension (or even the older EuCon plugin) may be a good approach. I've got an Artist Mix and the OLED displays look great and the faders feel terrific. The encoders aren't the best I've used by any means, but they're better than my X-Touch One's encoders.

The old EuCon plugin works well with the Artist Mix but Geoff is looking to have CSI replace that. CSI currently has some automation writing bugs with EuCon but Geoff's working on a rewrite which should be out soon and will hopefully address those. The benefit of CSI is how much more flexibility it'll allow for, and how it allows you to combine multiple surfaces (you could keep that BCR-2000 for example). I've mapped some plugins to the Artist Mix using CSI already and that works well, labeled parameters spilled out across the 8 channels, but requires some upfront setup.

Just my two cents.
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Hey Drew, how many faders are you looking for? Do you need transport controls?

If you're looking for a console-type approach, the Avid Artist series plus the Reaper CSI extension (or even the older EuCon plugin) may be a good approach. I've got an Artist Mix and the OLED displays look great and the faders feel terrific. The encoders aren't the best I've used by any means, but they're better than my X-Touch One's encoders.

The old EuCon plugin works well with the Artist Mix but Geoff is looking to have CSI replace that. CSI currently has some automation writing bugs with EuCon but Geoff's working on a rewrite which should be out soon and will hopefully address those. The benefit of CSI is how much more flexibility it'll allow for, and how it allows you to combine multiple surfaces (you could keep that BCR-2000 for example). I've mapped some plugins to the Artist Mix using CSI already and that works well, labeled parameters spilled out across the 8 channels, but requires some upfront setup.

Just my two cents.
Hey dude, thanks for the response! 8 faders would be absolutely fine. I'll take a look at the Artist Mix - tbh this isn't an area I'm terribly familiar with, been mostly a mouse+keyboard guy for 20 years!! Christ I feel old!

I've been looking into CSI. Ideally I don't really want to tit around setting stuff up, but if it's reasonably quick to do then I guess that's a pill I can swallow.

Is the Presonus Faderport 8 and 16 not up and running with CSI too?
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:53 AM   #4
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Anecdotally, I think Presonus does enough weird shit with their controllers (when not being used in Studio One) that I'd personally skip them. Someone else with first-hand experience will hopefully chime in with their own experience.

Not sure what you think of Behringer but they're always an option. They don't try to do anything proprietary or odd so they should work with any Reaper approach that supports MCU (CSI, Klinke). ICON has interesting looking surfaces but I know very little about them in use.

Regarding the Artist Mix setup, it's pretty plug and play with CSI or the old EuCon plugin. If you're not controlling plugins, you don't need to do much as it just works as a mixing surface out the box. I was using the old EuCon plugin for a while with no issues. Switched over to CSI recently. Also, can also set it up as an MCU device as well. EuCon has better resolution than MCU, but I've never really found the MCU resolution particularly problematic though.

As I type all this, I'd probably recommend an Artist Mix or Behringer surface over Presonus or ICON. Just my two cents.
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Old 06-27-2020, 11:45 AM   #5
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Nice one, cheers!
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Old 06-27-2020, 12:11 PM   #6
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I suppose the cheapest with scribble strips is the Behringer "Universal". AFAIK it is already decently supported by prepared CSI config files.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 06-27-2020 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 06-27-2020, 02:00 PM   #7
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Right so looking at this, the Avid Artist Mix looks cool but is a bit more than I want to spend. For the price of that you can get the Presonus Faderport 16, and since Studio One is my other main DAW I'd be more likely to go that way if I was gonna spend £700.

But the X-Touch looks pretty spiffy for the money. Not sure whether to get the "Compact" model or the regular one though, not sure what the difference is really?

Need to rinse the CSI thread I suppose for compatibility options, but I'm likely to go the X-Touch direction.
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Old 06-27-2020, 03:45 PM   #8
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The pricier X-Touch had the jogwheel and tons more buttons. That's probably where I'd go if doing it all over again.

Off the bat it'll work with CSI using the MCU devices. If no one else has done a template yet (I think you can already find one floating around here) then there might be some weirdness with how the buttons light up or don't. But basic functionality should work with no tweaking. Once you get to wanting to control plugins and customize CSI pop over to the main thread and we'll sort you out.
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Old 06-27-2020, 09:58 PM   #9
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I feel, the "Compact" is more for live activity, while the "Universal" more for mixing recorded tracks.

The "Compact" only offers a resolution of 7 bits for the faders, which seems rather sparse for decent mixing. And of course it does not feature scribbles.

-Michael
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:33 AM   #10
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So when I'm drunk I can't spot the non-existence of a jog-wheel and button section, apparently!

Yeah think I'd defo go for the bigger bad boy. Gotta source one now, everyone seems to be out of stock in the UK!
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberience View Post
Right so looking at this, the Avid Artist Mix looks cool but is a bit more than I want to spend. For the price of that you can get the Presonus Faderport 16, and since Studio One is my other main DAW I'd be more likely to go that way if I was gonna spend £700.

But the X-Touch looks pretty spiffy for the money. Not sure whether to get the "Compact" model or the regular one though, not sure what the difference is really?

Need to rinse the CSI thread I suppose for compatibility options, but I'm likely to go the X-Touch direction.
Here's a definite +1 for the X-Touch Universal... I've used a few controllers over the years and just love the X-Touch. It works out the box with Logic and Mixbus 32c, and using either CSI or DrivenByMoss4Reaper works really well with Reaper.

I've got configs saved for both if you decide to go down that route.

As far as the difference between the Compact and Universal goes, it's primarily the 'extra' stuff you get with full MCU compatibility on the X-Touch Universal, and the fact that the X-Touch Compact is 'only' General MIDI, not MCU clone. It's well worth the extra for the Universal in my book.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:29 PM   #12
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X-Touch incoming. The full bad boy

Cheers all!
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:14 PM   #13
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I've been recommended the X-Touch too. It has to be good
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:21 AM   #14
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So it arrived. I'm enjoying it a lot. I'm currently using the mst and zone files with CSI that Mike@Ossarium put together here:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=233564

But there are some tweaks I'd eventually like to make.
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