Old 06-07-2018, 05:46 AM   #2481
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 18,941
Default

I have recently started tgreating reaper as a very basic tape recorder again.

Amazing how quickly a workable demo can be done that way.
__________________
Brexit Schmexit. Lets have a violent revolution instead. Bagsy the first go with a nuke! (Here, Moggy Moggy...)
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 08:08 AM   #2482
RDBOIS
Human being with feelings
 
RDBOIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: It changes
Posts: 1,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I have recently started tgreating reaper as a very basic tape recorder again.

Amazing how quickly a workable demo can be done that way.

Yeah. Sometimes I miss the days of my old Fostex 4 track. I'd sit on my bed and pump out song after song in no time.

Sure the songs sounded like ass, but the expectations were realistic (unlike those I currently have). Funny thing ---> All my friends didn't care one bit about the sound quality, it made everyone dream.

Also, I find people are very forgiving and capable of 'filling in the gaps' if the song is good. This Fostex was friendly to the 'mood' and a great tool.


RDBOIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 08:31 AM   #2483
jerome_oneil
Human being with feelings
 
jerome_oneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDBOIS View Post
Yeah. Sometimes I miss the days of my old Fostex 4 track. I'd sit on my bed and pump out song after song in no time.
I have the more "modern" version of that, the MR-8. It's fantastic. Runs off of CF cards, which are hard to find, but fortunately every locomotive on the rails uses CF cards, so I can liberate them when I need to.

jerome_oneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 08:47 AM   #2484
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 5,634
Default

Indeed to the above: Tried to have that tape style approach with last recordings, the buzzword being 'performance capture'

Boiled down to setting up for simultaneous guitar and voice miking then doing take after take after take until I had the best take of whole song. Painful as not my comfort zone but got there.
Can splice n dice similar takes if need be but essentially the core is a decent performance, then can use all the toys to add tinsel and decorations to that as required.

There is a certain feeling of freedom from being released from the prison of the 'grid'

Seems so obvious and was how it was done early days of recording but easy to get off track these days and try and construct your way to perfection piecemeal, when capturing something interesting is the key.

Tempted to take it further and replicate old setups/mixing, e.g couple of ribbon mics only and use only the effects available at tne time etc. Just as a starting point, nothing super strict, as piece may end up screaming for a granular synth solo...

Last edited by BenK-msx; 06-07-2018 at 09:15 AM.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 08:52 AM   #2485
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 9,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I have recently started tgreating reaper as a very basic tape recorder again.

Amazing how quickly a workable demo can be done that way.
I'm also doing that.

Sometimes I resolve syncing issues [performance errors due to a lack of rehearsal, or something ] down the track by simply recording a vocal track singing the drums and/or bass timing and align MIDI notes to that; it's a reasonably fast, very accurate method which reflects actual performance and often saves on needing to re record a bunch of insts, esp if using vsti's.

I'll post the following for anyone who might find it useful, it's become a major feature of me workflow, dunno if other DAWs have this feature but it works great in Reaper.

Quote:
For anyone who wants to use this method, -open e.g the bass MIDI trk in the MIDI editor [Piano roll] then click the little exclamation mark icon in the extreme bottom left corner of the screen, unattach the window from the docker so it floats.

Set "Opacity" to 75% [which is also on the dropdown menu of the exlamation mark icon] then right click the area above the Piano Roll, choose "View", then "Piano Roll Timebase" and then "Project synced".

Now it's possible to drag the floating MIDI editor to the audio [wave] track you recorded and you can see it underneath the MIDI editor which remains in sync with all other tracks regardless of resizing windows or other adjustments.
Note: As usual, if there's pitchbend info attached to MIDI notes then usually you need to make sure that moves with the notes.

Someone might weigh in again with how that can be set as default or accomplished in the same edit as I know it's possible but I forget so I've been doing that with separate edits.

Last edited by morgon; 06-07-2018 at 09:19 AM.
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 11:40 PM   #2486
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 420
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringing phone View Post

So anyway...in the first 45 seconds or so of this song I mixed...I believe I am actually getting this effect. Can anyone hear it?
Ummmmmm... yes and no? I don't hear the ringing phone per se, I do think you've maybe got some artifacting or just tracks competing up in that range. Tell me more about the instrumentation? I'm hearing an acoustic guitar with lots of attack, pick/string noise, and a shaker of some kind, sounds almost like a tambourine depending on what I'm listening on, kinda stepping on each other. I think I'd try to decide which one I most need in that range and lowpass the other out of it.

Good luck! Like the track, kinda Floyd-ish to me.

2nd thought: OK so it is a tambourine, yah? I let your channel run and I hear it on some of the other tracks. I think that's your problem, I'd just lose it, I don't think it really adds anything to the track and gives me almost instant ear fatigue. Lol. Sorry, excuse my opinionating. If you really love the tambo maybe a less busy part? Now if there's no tambourine on those tracks we both have a real problem...

Last edited by fred garvin; 06-08-2018 at 12:04 AM.
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 04:01 AM   #2487
ringing phone
Human being with feelings
 
ringing phone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 156
Default

From memory it's mainly a slightly aggressive hihat that I need to lower, along with one of those rattle looking things with the chain link stuff all around it that you sort of manipulate by hand to make a noise. Dunno what they're called.

The good news is that you can't hear the ringing phone.

__________________
nothing to see here
ringing phone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:48 PM   #2488
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 420
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin View Post
...a shaker of some kind...
Oh ok, got it in one lol. Yah what is that? Uncle Intertubes says... Cabasa!

Used to have one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu4_uwQWA-g

...for years until I knew what it was called lol. Dude's a hoot huh? Approximate! Layin' some vocab on ya!

Well again good luck, sounds real good give or take the odd cabasa lol.
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:56 PM   #2489
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 420
Default The true path revealed...

Answering my own question from earlier for the benefit of any interested latecomers... this thread was edited down to yep's posts and others directly related by a member called Smurf and his edits are still available here:

https://stash.reaper.fm/u/Smurf?u=u

Happy Reapering!
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 05:55 AM   #2490
ringing phone
Human being with feelings
 
ringing phone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin View Post
Oh ok, got it in one lol. Yah what is that? Uncle Intertubes says... Cabasa!

Used to have one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu4_uwQWA-g

...for years until I knew what it was called lol. Dude's a hoot huh? Approximate! Layin' some vocab on ya!

Well again good luck, sounds real good give or take the odd cabasa lol.
Much appreciated...and you were right.

I've tidied up the areas you mentioned and I think it's somewhat improved. Funny the things you don't notice huh? (me that is)

Cheers mate
__________________
nothing to see here
ringing phone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 12:11 PM   #2491
fred garvin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 420
Default

Oh cool, glad to help! Was saying to a friend the other day, it's funny how we create these wonderful sounds that inspire us, and painstakingly craft these performances, and insist on perfect (or close as) clarity and fidelity in recording... and then take a butcher knife to everything to make the freakin mix work lol.
fred garvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 06:46 PM   #2492
Petimar
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 168
Default

Thanks Yep, appreciate this thread/advice!!!
__________________
Reaper, Windows XP Pro, RME Fireface UFX
www.petimarpress.com www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
Mandolin and Fiddle teacher/player Seattle Issaquah Skype
Petimar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 07:02 PM   #2493
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 7,120
Default

Almost 1.5 million views on this amazing thread and it deserves even more.
__________________
Myy Wyyrd Muzyyk
foxAsteria is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2019, 12:17 AM   #2494
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 18,941
Default

Maybe some selfless person should do an up to date pdf of all the stuff that has been posted since the last one! (he says, sitting firmly on his hands)
__________________
Brexit Schmexit. Lets have a violent revolution instead. Bagsy the first go with a nuke! (Here, Moggy Moggy...)
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2019, 07:55 AM   #2495
RacerX29
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Maybe some selfless person should do an up to date pdf of all the stuff that has been posted since the last one! (he says, sitting firmly on his hands)
OK - ZIP file with PDFs of all the pages in this thread:

http://condition3.net/yeps-thread-W-...2019-04-19.zip

And a big thank you to yep for starting this and sharing his amazing knowledge. I've been out of music for several years now but want to get back in. Back when I was recording, I learned EVERYTHING from this thread.
RacerX29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 01:36 AM   #2496
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 18,941
Default

@RacerX29: A big thank you from all who bookmarked this thread.

I can now re-read bits when I am on holiday with no wifi!
__________________
Brexit Schmexit. Lets have a violent revolution instead. Bagsy the first go with a nuke! (Here, Moggy Moggy...)
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 10:17 AM   #2497
troywestfield
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1
Default Another thank you

Just another schmuck who wanted to thank Yep and some others who gave of their time and expertise on the earlier parts of this thread. I'm one of a million people who came across it while searching for a DAW mixing primer, and got a ton of useful info from it. I'd already tracked most of my upcoming album, but still was able to improve how things sounded during mixing a ton by applying some of what I took away from the thread. Just mastered the first song last night, and in all my excitement, wanted to take a second to thank Yep et al.
troywestfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2019, 04:36 PM   #2498
Liquid Fusion
Human being with feelings
 
Liquid Fusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDBOIS View Post
Hmmm... Software fixes hey?

Auto-tune, transient and EQ fixes only go so far, at least in my case.

---> I'm having difficulties with expression (e.g. emotional communication), ideal tone (e.g. the product of breath control, vocal function, adequate use of resonance, color, quality, registration, etc.), and figuring the best melody lines to fit the music. I've only begun to consciously work on these things, and also how and why to purposefully chose certain words, not only for their meaning, but for the arrangement of consonances and vowels. Never mind the struggle with proper microphone technique and all the times I fail to properly warm up my vocal cords.

Eq- ssshmEQ

I just need to sing better, on top of writing better songs.

Three memories just popped in my head: 1) this guy I met in a park in Cotati, California - sat beside me with his guitar and sang a song about Snow Cones and I was in shock - it was perfect in every way possible, and 2) a homeless guy in Ocean Springs, Mississippi, borrowed my guitar and sang a country song he wrote about a girl and lost love - it was so much better than anything I'd ever heard on the radio, 3) in a Rainbow gathering in the middle of forest, by the fire pit, a woman picked up a guitar and starting singing a song while walking around the fire. Everyone stopped talking an listened as she belted out what can be described as a punchy, rhythmic, reggae-folk type of song. She didn't have the greatest voice, but sang with confidence, energy, and life, and the guitar was just about right.

What these songs have in common was how simple they were and how they were sung with so much real and raw emotions -- how the melody lines and words were working perfectly with the whole sum of everything else. It was synergy at it's best. I'm almost 100% sure that what I heard in these three occasions could probably never be fully captured on tape or digital tracks.

I'm not too sure where I'm going with these stories, besides for the fact that --- I need to write better songs and stop worrying so much about EQ, compression, saturation, transients, etc. Perhaps it is easier to fork out money $, turn knobs, and slide sliders, than it is to create and express something original and great?
Trying to record as a musician making music, you are in effect two persons in the same space at the same time. Why not simply have a room with a high quality voice activated mic / recording system to capture your performance whenever you pick up your guitar and start playing? Possibly, one reason record labels charged bands so much for recording 70s-80s, was due to Artists going into studios and just letting tape roll to capture whatever happened. Going for that moment of pure golden spontaneity makes great recordings. When it happens, it's brilliant.

Last edited by Liquid Fusion; 08-03-2019 at 04:55 PM.
Liquid Fusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2019, 09:43 PM   #2499
yep
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraleetj View Post
will be brief
First and only post on thread unless something happens that involves me directly.

I am a Blind coputer user, in love with reaper, even bought reaMix as suggested, responsible for the updating and maintenance of the www.reaperaccessibility.com site, a musician by conviction and discipline, trying to improve everyday.
I love contributing and helping others and that is precisely why I decided to bring reaper documentation for the blind on the www.reaperaccessibility.com site at no cost-its a way of giving back. And probably the OP of this thread resonates with the thought that there is a bit of living in giving and sharing with others.

Regarding the thread
read this ALL, of course plan to go back over and over. Laughed, had a blast, thought for a while, everything in between, what a great community tthe outstanding 40% of posters who managed to stay on point and contributed with the pdf's... that 40% counts with all of my suppport and admiration (not being excludng but hey, sometimes you gotta give deserved recognition). This truly inspires. Too bad the amazing discussion ended up so abruptly and in such a missleading way from page 45 or so onwards.
One thin missing from the pdf, which I got a kick out of and even though I understood what it was before reading the post but its essential to include it, please please.
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=247
if its too late for it to be added, its understandable but its nice, and I'm just trying to save newcomers to this thread some time here. Searching the reaper stash for "yep" is satisfactory, as well as for an acronym made with the title of this thread, "wdyrsla"

Conclussion
a friend who is a sound engineer with a finished career and I (a blockhead who has finished his degree in jazz piano performance and a master in unniversity education) thank you sincerely and forever, and will re-read this ALL of the time. We usually hang out to share and learn from each other (I teach him musical harmony,mostly--he teaches me mixing and recording and concepts are so intertwined its almost pure bliss) and this is a tremendous companion. All of you can envy us with rage all you want from this moment on.
May you, yep and all of the wonderful contributors find success, delight and a bit of life in every single of your upcoming endeavours! I wish nothing more.
Sorry I missed this, but I'm really glad to hear that this might have been helpful to blind users of a DAW like REAPER.


Music and audio are art forms where the blind can not only fully participate, but may even have advantages over the sighted. But as music creation and recording becomes more and more focused around computers and software with visual interfaces, I hope we are not creating barriers for people who rely on other senses.
yep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 03:45 AM   #2500
frood
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 49
Default

this isn't really in sequence with recent posts in this thread, but what the hell, it seems like a good place to discuss it. what are people's thoughts on compressing the entire drum kit, as opposed to just the individual instruments like the snare?

I feel like using compression is one thing (not the only thing) that I haven't really grasped properly. i use it to 'fix' certain tracks, but i've found that automation is far more effective and generally sounds better if you put the time in. but as for using it musically, or as an overt effect, I am still somewhat confused. I have tended to stick to ReaComp and try to go for very gentle levels of compression (as per various recommendations in this thread) but then I think 'why I am i bothering with this, if i cannot hear the effect?'

i ask about compressing the entire kit, because this is where I've found it much easier to discern the effect of the various parameters, especially the attack. so I wondered: is this a common application of a compressor? what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it like this? I use drum VSTis and key in the parts with a MIDI keyboard, so there is at least some variation in volume in the performance for the compressor to work with.
frood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 04:16 AM   #2501
rainydayshirts
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frood View Post
this isn't really in sequence with recent posts in this thread, but what the hell, it seems like a good place to discuss it. what are people's thoughts on compressing the entire drum kit, as opposed to just the individual instruments like the snare?

I feel like using compression is one thing (not the only thing) that I haven't really grasped properly. i use it to 'fix' certain tracks, but i've found that automation is far more effective and generally sounds better if you put the time in. but as for using it musically, or as an overt effect, I am still somewhat confused. I have tended to stick to ReaComp and try to go for very gentle levels of compression (as per various recommendations in this thread) but then I think 'why I am i bothering with this, if i cannot hear the effect?'

i ask about compressing the entire kit, because this is where I've found it much easier to discern the effect of the various parameters, especially the attack. so I wondered: is this a common application of a compressor? what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it like this? I use drum VSTis and key in the parts with a MIDI keyboard, so there is at least some variation in volume in the performance for the compressor to work with.
Sort of depends on the sound you are looking for. If you meticulously mix your drums, compression may be used to just "glue" them all together. This would be using gentle compression, like you describe that you can barely discern. Or, you can compress the heck out of the drums, if thats the sound you want. Or send all your drums to a buss, use heavy compression, and mix that in with a second buss that is dry, for a "New York" style compression (parallel compression).Or, you can not use compression at all. I've seen arguments on the technical aspect going both ways, but I would say just use what gets the sound you want, regardless of what "experts" or other artist say is "correct."
rainydayshirts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 01:23 PM   #2502
CraigG58
Human being with feelings
 
CraigG58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: North Port, Florida
Posts: 65
Default

I'm not sure I totally agree with the philosophy of requiring high-end gear to create a great production.

Check the track below, all of which was done in my home studio using a Tascam-32SD recorder and Hosa cabling (save the lead guitar solo at around 03:30, which was recorded via a Fractal Audio Systems Axe-FX II amp modeling unit into a studio recorder).

Besides that lead guitar, I played and recorded all other tracks. Here's the instruments that I used:

Guitars line-in to a Carvin DX1642 mixer, feeding the Tascam via a single XLR input:
– Godin Seagull Entourage acoustic
– Fender Jazz bass

Line 6 Spider III modeling amp, line-out to same mixer:
– Fender Stratocaster
– Gibson Les Paul Studio

Keyboards, line-in to same mixer:
– Korg MS-20 analog synthesizer
– Yamaha MX49 digital synthesizer

Drums, the only thing that were mic'd, with 7 direct XLR inputs into the Tascam using CAD microphones. Yep, cheap mics, but proper placement is everything.
– DW Drums with Zildjian, Paiste and Wuhan cymbals
– Additional percussion by Treeworks and Rhythm Tech

Granted, it was mixed and mastered in a Pro recording studio, but no amount of mixing/mastering is going to make a recording sound great unless the sources are good in the first place. It's the old, garbage in, garbage out routine.

Experiment to maximize your existing gear set-up, and you'll produce the great sounding source tracks required for an awesome overall production.

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13734072
__________________
Visit me at the not-so-world-famous Cygnus Studios:
https://cygnusstudios.blog/

Last edited by CraigG58; 08-13-2019 at 02:49 PM.
CraigG58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 02:23 PM   #2503
CraigG58
Human being with feelings
 
CraigG58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: North Port, Florida
Posts: 65
Default

Forgot to mention, the room I recorded all of this in is 12x14' with a slanted ceiling which matches the roof. The only acoustic treatment it's ever received was 1x1' foam tiles on the French entry doors.
__________________
Visit me at the not-so-world-famous Cygnus Studios:
https://cygnusstudios.blog/
CraigG58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 01:15 AM   #2504
Sambo Rouge
Human being with feelings
 
Sambo Rouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posts: 1,919
Default

Craig.


Nice track. Lots of work there.

I agree. I've always found that there is an over obsession with gear and plugins that has almost become more of an obsession than creating the music.

The craft lies in the person's ability and imagination not the perfection of gear.

Regards,

SR
__________________
Its never too late to be happy. :)
Sambo Rouge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 02:25 AM   #2505
cyrano
Human being with feelings
 
cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,595
Default

Now where's the "like" button?
__________________
“It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity” Albert Einstein
cyrano is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 07:21 AM   #2506
CraigG58
Human being with feelings
 
CraigG58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: North Port, Florida
Posts: 65
Default

Thanks guys!
__________________
Visit me at the not-so-world-famous Cygnus Studios:
https://cygnusstudios.blog/
CraigG58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 01:19 AM   #2507
sightlessness
Human being with feelings
 
sightlessness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 911
Default

Thank you yep, very nice read.
__________________
I want to live PEACEFULLY PLEASE WORLD "LEADERS" GET THIS DONE/LET IT BE FOR GOOD AND MAKE HISTORYYYYYYY! Thanks.
sightlessness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.