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Old 03-19-2013, 12:49 PM   #1
LETO
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Default Why do WAVs turn into mono?

Hi all,

I know this has been discussed before, but somehow I never found this issue answered on this forum..

I recently enabled NinJam to "save uncompressed .wav files too" and although all my tracks were set to stereo (1/2, 3/4 etc.) on importing the clipsort file, all of this had turned into mono samples. The only way to work around this seems to have two mono channels for each and every stereo track and then pan everything after importing. This however takes double the bandwidth (plus it's pretty annoying) so I figured this can't be right.. I see no reason why it should be done this way.

Is it only me.. or..?
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:46 PM   #2
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The only time I've seen mono tracks is when a participant in a jam is transmitting in mono. Everything else I load up from clipsort.log in Reaper comes in as stereo, as expected.

Note that sending one channel in mono should not take more bandwidth than sending two channels in stereo - except the compression might not be quite as good, I suppose. What you want to avoid is having two stereo channels, one for Left and one for Right, which I've seen people doing (although, again, the compression might make it so there's not much difference).

OK, so the setup... just to check...

Assuming you're using audio in, you'll have a stereo pair on your sound card. You need a track in Reaper set to "Input: Stereo" then that stereo pair. Clicking the I/O button on the track should have "Master/Parent Send" ticked, "Track Channels" set to 2 (which are the defaults).

(VSTi just uses whatever MIDI In in place of the "Input: Stereo", the rest should be the same.)

You'll then have ReaNINJAM on the Master FX with a single "Local Channel" set to "Stereo 1/2", "Normal NINJAM" etc.

If you're doing that... I've no idea what else it could be..!
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:57 PM   #3
LETO
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Hi pljones and thanks for the quick feedback.

I'm certain my setup is correct.. As an experiment I tried to keep it as simple as possible: Ninjam on master, with 2 track channels. One track for incoming stereo signal with the master/parent send box ticked, rec and monitoring on. Ninjam: "2/8 in 2 out" and on the console one stereo track: "Stereo 1/2", switched to xmit.
Then I went File/Preferences and ticked both boxes, saving multitrack recordings AND uncompressed WAV files.

In this experiment I chose to connect to my own server, nobody on the other side.. (would that make a difference?)
I make a connection, make some noise that clearly shows stereo signal on all the meters that are in use. Check. Ok, after a couple measures I disconnect and import the clipsort file, without merging. What I see and what I hear is all mono, and as I check each file's properties they show up as single channel samples. This is comfirmed when I try to open them in an external editor. No doubt, these are mono files.

In the same setup, without the "also save WAV.." box ticked, I end up with ogg files in perfect stereo. Seems to me the setup can't be the problem, right?
I would also like to refer to an earlier post by Krillo who is describing the same "phenomenon":
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...highlight=mono

Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:03 PM   #4
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Ah... right, I never bother with the "Save as WAV", just keep the OGGs (as that's what's flying over the wire anyway). That sounds like it could be the issue, then: not something I'd have thought of!

I wonder if it's an issue with what's written to clipsort.log? Can you compare the two? (Specifically the header line...) Could also be worth a bug report...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LETO View Post
I would also like to refer to an earlier post by Krillo who is describing the same "phenomenon":
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...highlight=mono
Ah! That's what that was all about!
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.

Last edited by pljones; 03-20-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:21 PM   #5
LETO
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Hmm.. well I'm not sure about how Reaper reads these files but I figure that if there's an ogg AND a wav with the same name, it takes the latter one, correct?
The header line.. there's no specific header, it just starts with "interval 1 120.00 16", same for all the blocks. Nothing about mono or stereo.

Is this helpful?

Actually I'm really impressed by the sound quality of the minuscule oggs.. I just wanted to find out if having the original wavs significantly improves the sound of a final mix. Speaking of that: is it better (for ogg sound quality) to have volumes as high as possible (not clipping of course) or keeping it down, like halfway?
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:23 PM   #6
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.. Just sent the bug report. Really hope this will be solved because I think there's a lot of potential to this option. I consider myself a recording freak, taking pleasure in bringing back those moments of collaboration where you see the entire process (or story) of creation passing by again, and I would be surprised if I'd be the only one. I collect them like treasures, or "jam-gems".. meaning in the highest quality possible.

I don't think there is a problem in having a final mix that sounds better than when you were in a session, don't you agree?
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:10 AM   #7
Krillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LETO View Post
I would also like to refer to an earlier post by Krillo who is describing the same "phenomenon":
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...highlight=mono
Quote:
Originally Posted by pljones View Post
Ah! That's what that was all about!
Indeed so

Last edited by Krillo; 08-19-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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