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Old 02-27-2018, 01:59 PM   #761
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yup he gets silver for his idea and you get gold for your 2 and everyone else gets bronze
Oh my, I wasn't expecting this, I have nothing prepared...
First I'd like to thank...


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The only tricky bit occurs when you Unpin a track that is hidden, it will disappear, as it should, a bit jarring, but I think it is the most consistent behaviour, unless someone has a better one.
I agree it my be jarring, but most likely necessary.

The only other way that I can think of, would be if the "unpinned" channel strip remained but the fader dropped to 00 and all lights went out, or Flashed, or the display (if you have one) said Track Unpinned or something until you moved banks refreshed etc.

You couldn't have it just stay there until next refresh as you would have no visual feedback and you could find users pinning and unpinning expecting something.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:42 AM   #762
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Uggh a bug.

Just realized that pinned tracks should be in a Virtual Surface context, right now they are in a Real Surface context, which means a design flaw to correct.

Which leads to:

There will be an option to follow either MCP or TCP.

Right now it is at the global level.

Since I'm redesigning anyway, I think it makes more sense for it to be at the Zone level.

So one Zone could follow MCP and another could follow TCP, very flexible, and I think, useful.

What say you folks ?
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:52 AM   #763
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No one has every been constrained by flexibility.

But I'd favour following MCP over TCP is I had to choose one.

Last edited by Freex; 02-28-2018 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:17 AM   #764
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No one has every been constrained by flexibility.

But I'd favour following MCP over TCP is I had to choose one.
Yeah, I'm talking about having a different configuration PER ZONE for MCP/TCP.

So it's not the flexibility, it's the complexity I'm worried about:

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Old 02-28-2018, 11:41 AM   #765
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Is there a way to maybe have everything follow MCP as default and then be able to delve deeper to zone things up?

Would provide somewhat instant usability for beginners, but enable flexibility for more advanced users.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:01 PM   #766
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Yup he gets silver for his idea and you get gold for your 2 and everyone else gets bronze
Oh, how nice of you I just dropped into this thread out of nowhere and I already got a medal
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:23 PM   #767
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Is there a way to maybe have everything follow MCP as default and then be able to delve deeper to zone things up?

Would provide somewhat instant usability for beginners, but enable flexibility for more advanced users.
Yes, when you Add/Edit a Zone the default will be to follow MCP, but you can change it to follow TCP if you wish.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:31 PM   #768
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Oh, how nice of you I just dropped into this thread out of nowhere and I already got a medal
Thanks for your suggestion of using Pin/Unpin, it works very nicely !
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:49 PM   #769
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Yes, when you Add/Edit a Zone the default will be to follow MCP, but you can change it to follow TCP if you wish.
Sound like the perfect balance...spot on.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:41 PM   #770
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Yes, when you Add/Edit a Zone the default will be to follow MCP, but you can change it to follow TCP if you wish.
Is it even necessary to be able to follow MCP TCP?
Of course it doesn't hurt, if implementation has no downsides.

Very promising, i can't wait to try this all out...

Last edited by lou latch; 03-01-2018 at 02:06 AM. Reason: detective Freex
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:34 AM   #771
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Is it even necessary to be able to follow MCP?
Of course it doesn't hurt, if implementation has no downsides.

Very promising, i can't wait to try this all out...
Are you sure you didn't mean that the other way round, I'd think most would want follow MCP as default.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:01 AM   #772
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oh, obviously to early daytime to post something... yes, i wanted to say the opposite :-) -> corrected

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Old 03-01-2018, 06:22 PM   #773
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Just put up a short performance demo:

https://youtu.be/ravhFzHcYKI
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:11 PM   #774
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Looks GREAT ! Thanks !

-Michael
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:55 PM   #775
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yes!

(and a nice workspace, too)
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:55 AM   #776
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Wow, I have no words... It works flawlessly, no delay, way better than the Eucon...
I want it, I want it, I want it
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:52 AM   #777
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Looks very impressive. Looking forward to being able to try it out. Great work Geoff.

Andy
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:14 AM   #778
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wow.

just.

wow.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:12 AM   #779
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Auhhh...
Yes...
Awesome...
Wow...
Gimme Gimme Gimme...
I want it...

Looks amazing and super fast.

Great work Geoff.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:51 AM   #780
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Wow...impressed!
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:44 AM   #781
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Geoff, is there any requirements for FX maps on the C4, to determine rows or how will it work with scrolling etc, especially with "vertical slots" as we discussed before.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:03 AM   #782
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Geoff, is there any requirements for FX maps on the C4, to determine rows or how will it work with scrolling etc, especially with "vertical slots" as we discussed before.
For the pre-alpha it is simple, there will be no scrolling

After we get the pre-alpha stable, we will move on to adding features like scrolling for C4, etc.

So, you will be able to map the C4 widgets directly in the pre-alpha, but scrolling will be added later.
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:53 PM   #783
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For the pre-alpha it is simple, there will be no scrolling

After we get the pre-alpha stable, we will move on to adding features like scrolling for C4, etc.

So, you will be able to map the C4 widgets directly in the pre-alpha, but scrolling will be added later.
So will I need to denote rows used per fx or anything?

Have you any idea yet what way a track with two or more fx on would display?



(Just call me a Prawn, as I'm just a little shellfish lol)

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Old 03-02-2018, 02:54 PM   #784
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So will I need to denote rows used per fx or anything?

Have you any idea yet what way a track with two or more fx on would display?



(Just call me a Prawn, as I'm just a little shellfish lol)
You get to map it any way you want.

You just connect the Widgets to params a la:

VST 1 Comp
A1 Threshold
A2 Attack
A3 Release
A4 Ratio

VST 2 EQ
B1 LoFreq
C1 LoGain
B2 LoMidFreq
C2 LoMidGain
B3 HiMidFreq
C3 HiMidFGain
B4 HiFreq
C4 HiGain

So any channels that have both VST's will be mapped on the C4.

It's up to you to make maps that work for your workflow.
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:10 AM   #785
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
You get to map it any way you want.

You just connect the Widgets to params a la:

.....

So any channels that have both VST's will be mapped on the C4.

It's up to you to make maps that work for your workflow.
I was just opine to have a couple of maps made for testing, ready for pre-Alpha's arrival.

So I was wondering how thing would be implimented,

So say I have
TRACK 1 - TRACK 2 - TRACK 3
---EQ-----------COMP-------GATE--
--GATE-----------EQ---------COMP--

Now lets say
EQ takes up 3 rows A1-8 B1-8 C1-8
GATE takes up 1 row,
COMP takes up 2 rows.

So on TRACK 1 I could have GATE D1-8,

Now TRACK 2 Doesn't have enough rows for both, so what happens?

TRACK 3 would use 3 rows, so that would fit.

But what I wondering is, do I have a map that has EQ and GATE in it.
With another for EQ and COMP on the same track.
With another for COMP and GATE on the same track.

Obviously I'd have single maps for EQ, COMP, and GATE,
But as there is no scrolling, how would, or do you anticipate it working.

Just trying to get my head in the game, so to speak.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:00 PM   #786
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I was just opine to have a couple of maps made for testing, ready for pre-Alpha's arrival.

So I was wondering how thing would be implimented,

So say I have
TRACK 1 - TRACK 2 - TRACK 3
---EQ-----------COMP-------GATE--
--GATE-----------EQ---------COMP--

Now lets say
EQ takes up 3 rows A1-8 B1-8 C1-8
GATE takes up 1 row,
COMP takes up 2 rows.

So on TRACK 1 I could have GATE D1-8,

Now TRACK 2 Doesn't have enough rows for both, so what happens?

TRACK 3 would use 3 rows, so that would fit.

But what I wondering is, do I have a map that has EQ and GATE in it.
With another for EQ and COMP on the same track.
With another for COMP and GATE on the same track.

Obviously I'd have single maps for EQ, COMP, and GATE,
But as there is no scrolling, how would, or do you anticipate it working.

Just trying to get my head in the game, so to speak.
Yeah, this software comes from a very different place than the old slot based C4 software.

After much research and soul searching, here's the way I view things:

Muscle memory is a very powerful ally.
In order to leverage this maximally, things should always be found in the same place.

So, where in the old C4 model you would have to look at the display to orient yourself slot wise, in the new model the goal is to only need the display for adjustment values.

It's a different way of looking at things, inspired by use of the Console1 vs use of the C4.

On the Console 1 the Compressor section has a Rotary named "Threshold".

That is the Threshold control no matter what compressor is loaded.

Transferring that concept to the C4 with your example of the Gate:

The Gate would ALWAYS be on row 4 (row D).

And yes, that means you can't currently map your 2 row compressor AND your 3 row EQ at the same time -- that's what we will be adding, probably via a concept similar to FX chains with scroll capability.

Don't forget this is a pre-alpha -- translation -- early and primitive.

Features will be added over time.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:17 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, this software comes from a very different place than the old slot based C4 software.

After much research and soul searching, here's the way I view things:

Muscle memory is a very powerful ally.
In order to leverage this maximally, things should always be found in the same place.

So, where in the old C4 model you would have to look at the display to orient yourself slot wise, in the new model the goal is to only need the display for adjustment values.

It's a different way of looking at things, inspired by use of the Console1 vs use of the C4.

On the Console 1 the Compressor section has a Rotary named "Threshold".

That is the Threshold control no matter what compressor is loaded.

Transferring that concept to the C4 with your example of the Gate:

The Gate would ALWAYS be on row 4 (row D).

And yes, that means you can't currently map your 2 row compressor AND your 3 row EQ at the same time -- that's what we will be adding, probably via a concept similar to FX chains with scroll capability.

Don't forget this is a pre-alpha -- translation -- early and primitive.

Features will be added over time.
Ok I get that and it makes sense for things to stay put, (if not a little restrictive)
I know for me on the C4,simple pages would work just as well as scrolling, but if that could be added at a future point it would definitely open things up for C4 users.
So how will you cycle thru fx on a channel? Whether it be on the Console1 or C4?

Thanks for your patience and time, answering all my silly questions.

Last edited by Freex; 03-03-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:27 PM   #788
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Ok I get that and it makes sense for things to stay put, (if not a little restrictive)
Precisely, it is meant to be slightly restrictive in the interest of better ergo.

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So how will you cycle thru fx on a channel? Whether it be on the Console1 or C4
You won't (at least initially), either they fit on the Console1 or C4 simultaneously or they don't
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Old 03-03-2018, 02:11 PM   #789
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Precisely, it is meant to be slightly restrictive in the interest of better ergo.
I thought the ethos was flexibility, hopefully this is just initially.


Quote:
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You won't (at least initially), either they fit on the Console1 or C4 simultaneously or they don't
Ok that's good to know.


I know, a million questions, so will button cycling work straight off the bat, or will that be something down the line, again only thinking of myself lol, but would allow EQ to compact to maybe 1 row.
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Old 03-03-2018, 02:31 PM   #790
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I thought the ethos was flexibility, hopefully this is just initially.
Yes.

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I know, a million questions, so will button cycling work straight off the bat, or will that be something down the line, again only thinking of myself lol, but would allow EQ to compact to maybe 1 row.
Button cycling already works for Actions, FX to follow at some point.
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Old 03-04-2018, 06:18 AM   #791
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So much hope, so much promise, so much potential.

So much patience, needed I guess.


It's not going to be the all singing all dancing replacement for your mcu/c4, that I'd hoped, for some time.
As it stands, from what you've posted, itlooks like it might be a step back for me, my gear and work flow.
But I guess once you have it out, I can see what's what, and go from there.

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Old 03-04-2018, 07:11 AM   #792
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So much hope, so much promise, so much potential.

So much patience, needed I guess.


It's not going to be the all singing all dancing replacement for your mcu/c4, that I'd hoped, for some time.
As it stands, from what you've posted, itlooks like it might be a step back for me, my gear and work flow.
But I guess once you have it out, I can see what's what, and go from there.
Haha, no need to get panicky or depressed

But, you are, of course, correct, this project has so much more overall breadth than something dedicated purely to a Console1/C4, etc., therefore the pace of development for one particular hardware piece wil, by definition, be a bit slower.

That said we are not even at the pre-alpha release yet and the first post in this thread is October 2016 !!

This isn't something that will just "come out" in a completed fashion, I expect a few years of development on this project, incrementally adding features as we go, depending on demand/feasibility/etc.
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Old 03-04-2018, 10:53 AM   #793
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Haha, no need to get panicky or depressed

But, you are, of course, correct, this project has so much more overall breadth than something dedicated purely to a Console1/C4, etc., therefore the pace of development for one particular hardware piece wil, by definition, be a bit slower.

That said we are not even at the pre-alpha release yet and the first post in this thread is October 2016 !!

This isn't something that will just "come out" in a completed fashion, I expect a few years of development on this project, incrementally adding features as we go, depending on demand/feasibility/etc.
Haha, never fear the depression hasn't set in just quite yet.

I think it's more a "take your time and hurry up" sort of feeling, lol.

You're doing an awesome e job, I wish I knew programming to be able to help, but alas, like everyone else, we watch your video and impatiently wait.
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:21 AM   #794
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I’ve got the same feeling. Looking at the video you posted it works way better than my actual solution (eucon). So I’m looking forward to try it out (and I’ve already stressed so much Geoff).
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:33 PM   #795
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On the bright side, it gives me time to save up for the C1 😀
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Old 03-05-2018, 04:38 AM   #796
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OK, it's crude, rude, and unglued, and will probably crash frequently, so DON'T use it on anything crucial !

But... I'd be willing to put up a build if you guys promise not to crucify me

Some stuff is working, a lot is not, but it might be beneficial to see if you can even get it to configure and operate in a primitive way.

What say you ?
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Old 03-05-2018, 04:44 AM   #797
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Very happy to hear that you've got a build ready for testing.

Unfortunately I'm overwhelmed with work at the moment, and since I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the technicalities of this project, I suspect any testing I do is going to take more time than it's worth to you, and certainly more than I have to spare at the moment.

When things quieten down, I'll certainly try and get some stuff working with my X32 via MIDI though.

Thanks Geoff for all your hard work on this.

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Old 03-05-2018, 06:06 AM   #798
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Quote:
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Precisely, it is meant to be slightly restrictive in the interest of better ergo.



You won't (at least initially), either they fit on the Console1 or C4 simultaneously or they don't
Hi Geoff

Demo video looks great- very fast, congratulations!

Regarding FX slots and the C4, the system you implemented in the WaddC4 driver works very well for me.

I get to specify how many lines the FX uses (I always use multiples of 4, I don't mix FX on a single page) and I always map controls to the bottom row first (nearest to me, another reason for always using multiples of 4)

So, for me, in the new system, simple whole page (4 x rows on the C4) scrolling would be enough. we would only need to specify the number of pages an FX uses (usually will be 1) C4 up/down scroll buttons to move between pages/FX slots.

For any given controller, we get to specify which controls get assigned to FX duties (and this determines the size of the 'page') ie you may want just the rotaries, leaving the faders assigned to track levels.

Regarding the point of what should be visible on the surfaces, I think it should follow the MCP.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:26 AM   #799
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:34 AM   #800
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