Old 12-03-2010, 03:27 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
If I were Justin I'd pull in another coder to do just MIDI, and be done with it...
I think that Reaper is becoming to big for only 3 persons...
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:35 PM   #82
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I think that version 4.0 so far seems light on the music creation side, but richer in functional updates.
That's my general feeling too.

Quite a bit so far for 'engineers', people doing complex editing tasks and those that want to dive in and customize Reaper as a goal unto itself, but if I want to sit down and CREATE MUSIC, there's not really too much yet to make that process easier and more rewarding.

Probably the biggest 'creative feature' added so far IMO, is the Media Explorer time selection, but even that has been overshadowed by the underwhelming lack of routing, searching, pitch/playrate control, folder sorting etc.

Though it's still VERY early, it seems many of us had unrealistic expectations and perhaps it would've been better to have LESS of a wait for the start of v4 public testing (to make sure the development direction is aligned with the user base, and avoid unrealistic expectations), or a LONGER wait until more of the little (in development resources) requests that are received as major features for those that want them could be implemented (ReaEQ spectrum and freeze are a few examples that come to mind.)
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:37 PM   #83
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Musescore is free and actually works great - a few niggles aside...



So what are your exact problems? I don't think you mentioned them yet.
I've tried Musescore, and far from 'working great', it didn't work reliably at all on my system.

What I need is to be able to view and edit multiple tracks of midi data as musical notation. As others have mentioned, I'm not expecting Cockos to implement something of the complexity or sophistication of Sibelius. If I was producing printed scores I'd buy and use Sibelius for that job. What I do need is for Reaper to allow me to work with Midi data in a way that doesn't kill the workflow. Despte what has been said here, you can't get anywhere near to that with external tools.

As a little experiment, I used Reaper to input two tracks of a (roughly 1.5 minute) Mozart piano piece. It took me in total just under 3 hours. That makes life rather tedious.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:44 PM   #84
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I don't really think there is any negativity towards you personally. Just a lot of negativity towards the attitude you displayed here in this thread.
Sorry about the confusion. I thought I'd remembered you swearing at me, saying something about a 'rat's arse', and expressing in a foulmouthed way the opinion that nobody cares whether my particular needs as a paying customer are satisfied. Clearly that never happened.

Thanks for being so helpful, and for speaking on behalf of everyone on the forum. I'm sure that I must have been totally mistaken when I imagined that you were just being incredibly rude and dismissive.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:44 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by pc999 View Post
I think that Reaper is becoming to big for only 3 persons...
They need a big fat guy with a cigar. No company is complete without one.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #86
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I wouldn't worry too much since Schwa has already clearly stated that "Notation is not off the table, lots of people want notation features". (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=130).

From this it would seem that, with regard to a built-in notation editor in Reaper, the real question is not "if?" but "when?"...
Thanks for that Xasman. I really appreciate it, and it puts my mind at rest somewhat.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:54 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post

Just wondering, but in a nutshell, what do you think Reaper's MIDI capabilities/structure lacks that causes the most amount of frustration with new users/power users? (that other big DAWs do offer)
MIDI sends
groove quantise (for audio too. Global quantise and swing - desperately)
write/delete style as in FL Studio (awesome, possibly the benchmark)
ghosts
better in project editing
event inspector
notation

it seems to me that REAPER is very much sticking to its guns in being an audio editor of the highest calibre and electronic/beat producers and MIDI composers adont feature in that vision.

I hope Im wrong.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:57 PM   #88
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A big fat guy with a cigar and a Phd in MIDI coding.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:37 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by strunkdts View Post
MIDI sends
groove quantise (for audio too. Global quantise and swing - desperately)
write/delete style as in FL Studio (awesome, possibly the benchmark)
ghosts
better in project editing
event inspector
notation

it seems to me that REAPER is very much sticking to its guns in being an audio editor of the highest calibre and electronic/beat producers and MIDI composers adont feature in that vision.

I hope Im wrong.

Being able to edit more than one MIDI item without close and open new windows would be great too.


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A big fat guy with a cigar and a Phd in MIDI coding.
If he also compose some music in is free time, he is almost perfect (smoke and fat is unhealthy lol).
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:41 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by pc999 View Post
Being able to edit more than one MIDI item without close and open new windows would be great too.
I like the way you think!!
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:48 PM   #91
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By the way guys....

Been wondering if there is already such thing like this in Reaper and if Not I think it would be a very good add-on in the coming V4:

- Retrospective Record (like in Cubendo)for Midi

And maybe push the feature even further with Audio who knows

But mostly for Midi, I really love this feature because sometimes you're just jamming and a lot of great things happens on the fly and at the end you're like "shiiiiiiiiiiit" wish i've recorded it but damn it.

What do you guys think?

Cheers!!
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:51 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
Could you give me a rundown of the top MIDI features that are simply not doable in Reaper?
Here's a partial list:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=152
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:52 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Solar View Post
...
- Retrospective Record (like in Cubendo)for Midi

And maybe push the feature even further with Audio who knows

But mostly for Midi, I really love this feature because sometimes you're just jamming and a lot of great things happens on the fly and at the end you're like "shiiiiiiiiiiit" wish i've recorded it but damn it.

What do you guys think?

Cheers!!
That and also "Wish I *remembered* to hit the record button instead of 'play' only." lol
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:34 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Gromit View Post
I've tried Musescore, and far from 'working great', it didn't work reliably at all on my system.

What I need is to be able to view and edit multiple tracks of midi data as musical notation. As others have mentioned, I'm not expecting Cockos to implement something of the complexity or sophistication of Sibelius. If I was producing printed scores I'd buy and use Sibelius for that job. What I do need is for Reaper to allow me to work with Midi data in a way that doesn't kill the workflow. Despte what has been said here, you can't get anywhere near to that with external tools.

As a little experiment, I used Reaper to input two tracks of a (roughly 1.5 minute) Mozart piano piece. It took me in total just under 3 hours. That makes life rather tedious.
there are some good 3rd party softwares, that let you scan sheet music, and then it convert it into mid, and then you could drag and drop that into reaper. i forget what they're called. but they're pretty slick.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #95
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multiple tracks in one piano roll i definitely think would be a great upgrade. have every track's midi come in a separate color as well. would be very cool.

or even every item you select and they would layer or follow depending on timeline.

and then perhaps a way to have all items selected depending on time selection intersecting with selected folders. that would be pretty cool and quite quick to get all your horns for one section in timeline or something.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:59 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
That and also "Wish I *remembered* to hit the record button instead of 'play' only." lol
Haahahahhaah Very funny Mike!!!!
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:04 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
That and also "Wish I *remembered* to hit the record button instead of 'play' only." lol
I'm sure we have retrospective record for midi hidden somewhere but..

..I could be wrong!
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:11 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
I like the way you think!!
absolutely, this is paramount
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:11 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Solar View Post
By the way guys....

Been wondering if there is already such thing like this in Reaper and if Not I think it would be a very good add-on in the coming V4:

- Retrospective Record (like in Cubendo)for Midi

And maybe push the feature even further with Audio who knows

But mostly for Midi, I really love this feature because sometimes you're just jamming and a lot of great things happens on the fly and at the end you're like "shiiiiiiiiiiit" wish i've recorded it but damn it.

What do you guys think?

Cheers!!
yeah, thats a really strong feature of Cunbase.

edit, i didnt meant to write that, but ima gonna leave it anyway
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:30 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by synth View Post
Ummm...

"" I need a score editor, CC envelopes and automation in the MIDI editor, ghost MIDI items, groove quantization, a non-linear arranger, vertical piano roll view, step sequencer, improved event editor, variaudio, a vocal harmonizer and my bag full of sex toys. "

- The lolbitch"

----

There are no CC envelopes or a step sequencer in Reaper? and a Weak Event Editor?

:\

oy!
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:34 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
multiple tracks in one piano roll i definitely think would be a great upgrade. have every track's midi come in a separate color as well. would be very cool.

or even every item you select and they would layer or follow depending on timeline.

and then perhaps a way to have all items selected depending on time selection intersecting with selected folders. that would be pretty cool and quite quick to get all your horns for one section in timeline or something.
Stop it!!!

this was my biggest wish for V4!!


lol
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:54 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar View Post
By the way guys....

Been wondering if there is already such thing like this in Reaper and if Not I think it would be a very good add-on in the coming V4:

- Retrospective Record (like in Cubendo)for Midi

And maybe push the feature even further with Audio who knows

But mostly for Midi, I really love this feature because sometimes you're just jamming and a lot of great things happens on the fly and at the end you're like "shiiiiiiiiiiit" wish i've recorded it but damn it.

What do you guys think?

Cheers!!
Agreed. Saved my ass soo many times with Cubase.
We don't have that feature yet, but you can vote on it here:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2306

Unfortunately, I think that FR is rather arcanely named so it's less likely to get the attention it deserves, but hopefully that's not taken as a reflection of the usefulness of this feature which Logic/Cubendo users have been enjoying for some time now.

Quote:
Retrospective Record

This feature allows you to capture any MIDI notes you play in Stop mode or during playback and turn them into a MIDI part "after the fact". This is possible due to the fact that Nuendo can capture MIDI input in buffer memory, even when not recording.
Proceed as follows:
1. Enable the Retrospective Record function in the Preferences dialog (Record page).
This activates the buffering of MIDI input, making Retrospective Record possible.
2. Make sure a MIDI track is record enabled.
3. When you have played some MIDI material you want to capture (either in Stop mode or during playback), select Retrospective Record from the Transport menu (or use the key command, by default [Shift]-[Pad*]).
The contents of the MIDI buffer (i.e. what you just played) is turned into a MIDI part on the record enabled track. The part will appear where the project cursor was when you started playing - this means that if you played along during playback, the captured notes will end up exactly where you played them in relation to the project.

Audio pre-record
This feature allows you to capture up to 10 minutes of any incoming audio you play in Stop mode or during playback, "after the fact". This is possible because Nuendo can capture audio input in buffer memory, even when not recording.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:12 PM   #103
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@PitchSlap, @strunkdts

Indeed I loooooooooooove this feature and hope we will see this baby integrated in Reaper soon

Keep the faith
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:12 AM   #104
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something like a (customizable little) "MIDI navegator" (in the menu toolbar) to fast zooming will be great.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:36 AM   #105
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Here's another small, yet big MIDI usability improvement that would be nice to see in Reaper 4:

Scale Correction for transpose:
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:47 AM   #106
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+1 for proper handeling of multiple midi tracks in the PRV. Would be nice if we could set non-selected tracks as uneditable so doubleing parts is easier (similar to Sonar and Cubase).

To expand on what was said earlier, how about having it so the midi note colour is relative to the track color or changes with each track, instead of having it always red then change for different midi channels.
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:45 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
Here's another small, yet big MIDI usability improvement that would be nice to see in Reaper 4:

Scale Correction for transpose:
+1000

That is what I mean for "MIDI love"!!!

Sometimes i think Cockos are lost in technical improvements so much that forget some little easy things like this one.
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:52 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Eyes View Post
+1 for proper handling of multiple midi tracks in the PRV. Would be nice if we could set non-selected tracks as uneditable so doubling parts is easier (similar to Sonar and Cubase).

To expand on what was said earlier, how about having it so the midi note colour is relative to the track color or changes with each track, instead of having it always red then change for different midi channels.
It's nice to see everyone coming out of the woodwork for this one! haha

Take a good look at this. Sonar has had this since the Cakewalk Pro Audio days. REAPER's MIDI Filter Box has some of these features, but it's still missing:

--Note the *SCROLL BAR* for Sonar's MIDI Filter pane/filter/whateverit'scalled. Schwa addressed my concern with REAPER's one time, considering it a bug, since MIDI Item Names can be cut off with the current MIDI Filter Box.
*PLEASE* add vertical & horizontal scroll bars to the MIDI Filter Box! Also, allow us to resize the window like you can with most other windows within R (Save-as dialog, FX Chain Window, etc.)

--Lock/Unlock MIDI Item Events per-item--
(the white box you see in the below pic turns gray along with that item's corresponding MIDI notes/CC data.)

--Mute/Solo/Record-Arm Buttons Per-MIDI Item--
The Rec-Arm button should toggle the MIDI Item's corresponding TCP Rec-Arm button. I would love to work with MIDI orchestrations completely within the MIDI Editor in REAPER.

--Also take note that the colored box matches the color of the MIDI notes. I would be more than happy sacrificing fancy MIDI Note_colormap.pngs for more plain looks on MIDI Notes/CC Data if it means I can keep better track of what is what. This stuff can look very confusing if you start to layer sounds.



I'd also like an option for MIDI scrub to scrub either ALL MIDI events in the MIDI Editor, or only the one with focus. We have it with focus, but not for all events (unless I missed a preference somewhere.) This toggle should be available within the MIDI Editor IMO.

+1 Billion for PitchSlap's 'Transpose' ideas!

- Mike

Side note: Delphi and Solar have the best avatars on the planet.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:00 AM   #109
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+1 for multiple track midi window

Edit: but please better GUI than the above one
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:06 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
It's nice to see everyone coming out of the woodwork for this one! haha

Take a good look at this. Sonar has had this since the CakeWalk Pro Audio days. REAPER's MIDI Filter Box has some of these features, but it still missing:

--Lock/Unlock MIDI Item Events per-item--
(the white box you see in the below pic turns gray along with that item's corresponding MIDI notes/CC data.)

--Mute/Solo/Record-Arm Buttons Per-MIDI Item--
The Rec-Arm button should toggle the MIDI Item's corresponding TCP Rec-Arm button. I would love to work with MIDI orchestrations completely within the MIDI Editor in REAPER.

--Also take note that the colored box matches the color of the MIDI notes. I would be more than happy sacrificing fancy MIDI Note_colormap.pngs for more plain looks on MIDI Notes/CC Data if it means I can keep better track of what is what. This stuff can look very confusing if you start to layer sounds.



+1 Billion for PitchSlap's 'Transpose' ideas!

- Mike
Yep, Cakewalk got midi right IMO

the power of that ugly sub 1990 midi editor is still years ahead today it seems

Subz
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:37 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
It's nice to see everyone coming out of the woodwork for this one! haha

Take a good look at this. Sonar has had this since the Cakewalk Pro Audio days. REAPER's MIDI Filter Box has some of these features, but it's still missing:

--Note the *SCROLL BAR* for Sonar's MIDI Filter pane/filter/whateverit'scalled. Schwa addressed my concern with REAPER's one time, considering it a bug, since MIDI Item Names can be cut off with the current MIDI Filter Box.
*PLEASE* add vertical & horizontal scroll bars to the MIDI Filter Box! Also, allow us to resize the window like you can with most other windows within R (Save-as dialog, FX Chain Window, etc.)

--Lock/Unlock MIDI Item Events per-item--
(the white box you see in the below pic turns gray along with that item's corresponding MIDI notes/CC data.)

--Mute/Solo/Record-Arm Buttons Per-MIDI Item--
The Rec-Arm button should toggle the MIDI Item's corresponding TCP Rec-Arm button. I would love to work with MIDI orchestrations completely within the MIDI Editor in REAPER.

--Also take note that the colored box matches the color of the MIDI notes. I would be more than happy sacrificing fancy MIDI Note_colormap.pngs for more plain looks on MIDI Notes/CC Data if it means I can keep better track of what is what. This stuff can look very confusing if you start to layer sounds.



I'd also like an option for MIDI scrub to scrub either ALL MIDI events in the MIDI Editor, or only the one with focus. We have it with focus, but not for all events (unless I missed a preference somewhere.) This toggle should be available within the MIDI Editor IMO.

+1 Billion for PitchSlap's 'Transpose' ideas!

- Mike

Side note: Delphi and Solar have the best avatars on the planet.
As ugly as that appears at first being an older GUI, it makes alot of sense and would be easy to work with. Especially the track selector at the right...

Reaper is a brilliant program but midi feels a little neglected at times, hopefully Schwa's previous post is a sign of things to come. :')
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:06 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
I love Reaper, but I think that since its inception, its creators' motives were more bent towards audio recording than MIDI. It's just the way it is. And it does a great job at what it does.
Completely agree.
But now time thoroughly midi -editor has come to be engaged, the basic professional and necessary functions are necessary. It is already enough small ornaments.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:34 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
there are some good 3rd party softwares, that let you scan sheet music, and then it convert it into mid, and then you could drag and drop that into reaper. i forget what they're called. but they're pretty slick.
they have almost always sucked for me
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:26 AM   #115
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sorry, wrong thread

Last edited by Seventh; 12-04-2010 at 10:28 AM. Reason: sorry, wrong thread
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:47 AM   #116
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+1 to the MIDI transpose request. This is a feature I sorely miss.

-Kevin
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:33 PM   #117
Jason Brian Merrill
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we already have an write/erase possibility like FL studio, you just have to set it up.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:48 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strunkdts View Post
MIDI sends
there are midi sends, unless we have a different definition
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:41 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
i think the issue with standard notation is that it's actually quite complicated to do well. to get soemthing simple would be, ok still not super easy, but easier. but then if that were made, there would be so many complaints about features it doesn't have, about how hard it is to get certain things working properly, i think it would cause more problems than it would solve. sibellius and finale are quite hardcore. even the cubase notation editor is good but still not as good as those.

but for me, personally, i don't see why i'd want that unless it was to export my midi parts into sheet music, which a 3rd party software should be able to do easily.

for writting i find standard notation has alot more to think about, you need to count all your time and everything, and if you put a small delay in something you'll need to account for it in rests and all that. idk, it's alot of headaches for me. and that's why it's complicated to write. i mean play a part in midi on your piano and then put that into a note editor, it will be unreadable, so you would need to quantize first and quantize lengths of notes before having the editor translate it into standard notation, and sometimes this gets bad results.

personally apart from being able to rotate the piano roll 90 degrees, i don't see how writing can be easier than a piano roll. especially if you are playing your parts and not programming them.

i understand though that people are different and that's cool, for a notation editor to be created for those that want to use it is fine by me. but i'm quite certain that even if one was made it would not suffice really for people that want to use it. a notation editor in my eyes, in order to be useable, is a hell of alot of work. especially when you consider comments like musescore sucks too much to use. it's not too likely that reaper's notation editor, a little added feature to the software will way outperform full fledged 3rd party software that does only score editing.

if it was me, i'd give up on that dream and find the best most workflowish way to get what you want from 3rd party software.
From a purely selfish standpoint, what I woul dbe quite happy with would be a version of the piano roll editor that was overlaid with a stave and stave lines. Notes to be entered on it within bars delineated by the time sig & positions controlled by key sig, but looking like and adjustable like note entries on a piano roll.
I dont see how changing the back ground and then modifying the behaviour of notes entered is a massive task when compared to a complete, full blown Stave entry system.

And I didn`t say musescore sucked too much to use, it is useable but is implemented in a way that I personally found ungainly, inefficient and unreliable. - it sucked.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:47 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
Perhaps this can change, if it's the case
Why do you think that is, that many don't use Reaper for MIDI orch, etc? The biggest MIDI downfall(s) of Reaper.
Mockups, cue, etc.
Just curious.
I brought them up earlier in this thread, but to recap quickly:

1.) MIDI Filter Box is not scrollable. (Media names get cut off)

2.) We can't edit multiple MIDI items in the same editor all at once.
-This means if you need to move MIDI earlier or later, you need to go to the Arrange View and move the *MIDI Items* left/right. If transposing MIDI notes, you have to do them one-by-one, for every track. I often use 30+ MIDI tracks. This can take a long time for simply wanting to move everything up a 5th or whatever.

It's a matter of saving time. If I can select MIDI notes/CC/PC/etc. from as many items as I want, all in one go, I will save countless hours while composing songs within REAPER. #2 is my most desired feature. I hope it gets added.

3.)
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