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Old 01-08-2021, 02:28 PM   #1
eq1
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Default New monitor (Eris E5 XT) has intermittent partial signal loss

I'm debating what to do with my new-ish monitor. I bought it back in May and have more or less just now confirmed that it's defective.

It seems to lose high-end signal intermittently, at least about a 3dB drop, it could be signal across the board, not sure, it seems like treble-only. When it happens it usually happens shortly after turning it ON, but it also happens randomly all through the work day.

When the drop happens, I can turn up the volume on my software mixer's monitor output, momentarily, and usually the signal will come back in short order, like in some number of seconds. I've swapped left and right monitors and the signal drop follows the monitor, so I know for sure that it is indeed the monitor.

Given the cost of shipping and the amount of time it will take if I send the monitor into the manufacturer for repair, vis-a-vis what it costs for a new one and the time that will take, it doesn't really make sense to send it in. So, among other things, I'm thinking of just buying a new one.

I'm thinking maybe this signal drop is something that can be fairly easily diagnosed and fixed? I.e. I'd rather buy a new one and keep this original if I could then probably fix it at some point, and have a spare.

Does my description of the signal drop point to any likely, straight-forward causes? Maybe a faulty capacitor that could be replaced? Bad solder joint? Or, is a simple cause unlikely, and it could basically be just about anything?

IF it could be 'just about anything', and my prospects for ever fixing this were close to zero, then I'd be reluctant to just buy a new one. IF, on the other hand, I could probably fix it, I'd probably buy a new one asap. If I knew for sure I could fix it, like it's likely to be a simple problem, I'd for sure buy a new one...

Thoughts?

Any feedback greatly appreciated...
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Old 01-08-2021, 06:31 PM   #2
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I just fiddled with this signal drop a bit more. My monitors had been ON for a while, I came back to them and the bad one was in its 'low signal' defective state.

-I flipped the 'acoustic space' switch - it changes the output from 0dB to -2 or -4 depending on whether monitor is against wall or in corner. That didn't bring the signal back.

-I fiddled with the input gain knob, bringing it to unity, above unity, all the way up, back and forth - that did nothing (didn't bring signal back).

-I fiddled with the mid and high frequency knobs, those did nothing.

-I jiggled the input jack, did nothing...

The only thing that brought the signal back to normal - made the speaker sound normal - was turning the volume on my software mixer monitor out way up. It took maybe 5 seconds for the signal to come back...

It almost seems like this is getting worse, like earlier it didn't happen as much and it took less to bring the signal back, and now it happens more frequently and it takes more 'volume' to bring it back...

Basically, it seems like there must be an 'early' input stage of the monitor's onboard amplifier that's 'obstructed', no?

The input gain knob didn't do anything, didn't help, but increasing the signal level going into the monitor did: Perhaps there's some fairly narrow juncture - between the input gain knob and the input jack - that could be 'obstructed'??


[Later...] I just searched around a bit for schematics for a 'class AB' amplifier (more specifically, a studio monitor, but didn't find any). I took a peek at a few of the results. All of them had a capacitor as either the first or second component after the input jack, it was usually capacitor and then resistor. I didn't see any variable resistors that would be analogous to the 'input gain' knob, so not sure where that would fall in line. But, it does look like there might be a capacitor very early-on in the signal route from input onward...

If you had a faulty capacitor there, couldn't it take a much larger signal than normal to charge it up? And perhaps it 'leaks' too fast or something, so at some point it leaks, signal is lost (my monitor sounds quieter, dead-er), and then it takes that extra boost of input voltage (turn up the volume) to get it to charge again??

Last edited by eq1; 01-08-2021 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 03:59 AM   #3
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From your initial description as a first guess I would suspect a damaged/sticky driver cone and, with you suspecting treble, the tweeter. Seen this before where a cone gets damaged or distorted from moisture or a bit of dirt in the moving parts!

One could not rule out other problems such as on the amp or bad connections somewhere (almost anywhere) either.

I would not have suspected the input coupling capacitor as it is not something that charges like your description and your symptoms are not typical of a failure of it. Any variation of it's capacitance would primarily affect bass first, a leak would probably not result in intermittence.

When you change over monitor channels do you do that by replugging? If so where? At the monitor input or the interface channel output? Just trying to eliminate the cable between the two.

It should be easy to find in a workshop with the right equipment/testing but apart from some unpowered physical testing of wiring and connections and crossover components etc to find bad connections it will not be straightforward?

I would suggest considering (as you want to minimise downtime and are happy with having a spare) to buy another (if you trust the brand!) and then return the faulty one under "warranty" or other sale terms for a fix and return?
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Old 01-09-2021, 03:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allybye View Post
When you change over monitor channels do you do that by replugging? If so where? At the monitor input or the interface channel output? Just trying to eliminate the cable between the two.
The last time I swapped, I unplugged the cables at the back of each monitor and physically moved the right monitor to left position, and left to right (right monitor had drop outs, and then it moved to left). The problem stayed with the monitor...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allybye View Post
I would suggest considering (as you want to minimise downtime and are happy with having a spare) to buy another (if you trust the brand!) and then return the faulty one under "warranty" or other sale terms for a fix and return?
That's a good suggestion, I didn't really think of that. I guess I was thinking I wanted to avoid the extra $40 shipping to send in the bad one for repair. So I guess now the question would be, is a new monitor + a spare really worth another $200?

I did bring these issues up with PreSonus, but they're not responding. I told them it didn't really make sense to have 3 weeks+ down time, an extra $40 outlay, and simply end up with a working monitor after all that -- when I could just buy a new one for $165, have it here in a day, and have the original monitor as a spare. I asked them if they might give me a discount or rebate or something, on a new one, equal to what it'd cost for them to ship my monitor back. No reply... That was Tuesday.


Anyway, sounds like me fixing this relatively easily is unlikely - no simple 'replace capacitor' fix, for instance. Thanks for your feedback, Allybye. I really appreciate it. I think I'll wait till Monday and see if I get a response from PreSonus before I decide what to do.
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:53 PM   #5
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I had a pair of brand new Eris 5 speakers.

The first went out after 6 months... just stopped producing sound.
The second - I was using as a mono mix monitor and it started crackling about 2 months later.

I did not re-buy.
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:09 PM   #6
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^ Yikes. I just decided to buy another, new one a day ago, should be here tomorrow...

It crossed my mind to try something different, but then I would have had to buy two new ones.

I was really disappointed with the customer service I was getting dealing with this, with PreSonus. After a fairly long, initial wait (some days), I had additional questions, after they had given me a return authorization. It's like those questions fell into a black hole. It took a week and half to finally get a response, and I had to contact them through email rather than their online 'ticket' thing. And then the response was basically, 'we can't help you, send it in for repair, that's your option'. I had wanted to know if instead I could just buy a new one and get a discount or rebate or something, like equal to what they'd have to pay to ship my defective monitor back to me once they fixed it...

Oh well. Seems like that's about the quality of service that can be expected these days. I swear practically everything I buy these days has problems or breaks. And then when I try to find help it's a total run-around.

Anyway, enough of the gripe. I'll cross my fingers and just hope this replacement 1) works, and 2) lasts... When they work they seem to sound good, a lot better than the setup I had before (old Alesis 'Monitor Ones' with matching RA100 amplifier)...
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Old 01-19-2021, 05:52 PM   #7
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In all fairness... I dont think presonus in general is a bad co.

I've used a few of their other devices and just bought a StudioLive AR12.
I like the AR12.. I hope it lasts.
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:17 PM   #8
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^ If the product fails/is defective, like your monitors and mine, then I'd guess that'd most likely be a manufacturing issue, probably not a design issue(?). I think I'd still blame 'the company' for that, though, like they need to have better quality control oversight. Probably pretty hard to do when the product is made in China...

Customer service? I don't know, I don't really get it, why so much customer service these days seems really bottom-of-the-barrel. It's like 'the problem' is never any one's problem; it's always someone else's responsibility, like the foreman in the factory in China or something... 'They all' try to wear you down, make you give up on your return or whatever, whatever issue.

I think it probably has at least something to do with the way products are mostly purchased, now - not from a store, but online, like from Amazon. The retailer would usually be the go-to for problems in the past, but now that link is more or less severed, for those who buy online at least, or from the likes of Amazon. I might have to start buying stuff from an actual music store from now on...
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Old 01-25-2021, 06:07 PM   #9
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A little update on this issue:

I came across a thread at the Presonus Eris forum that describes problems similar to what I've described - as well as a fairly easy explanation and fix. I haven't tried this yet, but I probably will soon. The descriptions that sound like my problem are "lazy tweeter" and "tweeter keeps cutting in and out."

Here's a link to the thread I originally accessed: https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=38123

The last post in that thread has a link to another thread that describes the fix. Here's that link, you might just want to go to this one: https://answers.presonus.com/42766/p...ing-in-and-out

Apparently, quite a few people have had similar issues with at least the Eris line of monitors, not just the E5 XT. They say it's the connections to the tweeter - cold solder joint, solder blob, or bridged terminals.

I'll let you know if/when I open mine up and try to fix it.
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Old 01-26-2021, 03:55 AM   #10
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Given that info you link to....
It indicates poor quality control during manufacture and a few design flaws too!

I would be inclined to send my purchase back to the supplier and get a refund to buy different speakers!!

Before you dive into the guts consider that if you end up creating another problem (such as damaging a track, very easy to do!, or the tweeter itself -assuming it is not the problem) then you will likely invalidate any legal entitlement or warranty.

Now if this speaker had been replaced for free and was now just a spare you would have nothing to loose...
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:30 PM   #11
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^ Too late! I already bought another one, and, I already opened the old one up. I was mindful of possibly botching my opportunity to return it for repair under warranty. I probably have. They put glue on all the connectors that need to be pulled out to free the board/heatsink from the speaker cabinet, to access the board itself. So I had to scrape it off. It was pretty ridiculous...

Plus, unfortunately, that 'fix' I linked to doesn't look like a fix at all. Not sure those links are accessible without having a PreSonus account...

Both 'fixes' talk about cold solder joints, bridging via solder blob, or a hair/whisker bridging solder pads where the tweeter connects to the 'mother board'. But, looking at the pads on my board that are circled in one of the images at that link, they're both ground pads - one's for the 'negative' terminal coming from the woofer, the other's the 'negative' terminal coming from the tweeter (not sure if these are really called "negative" or what). They both seem to connect to the common ground plane - so it shouldn't matter whether they're bridged on the solder side of the pads... Mine weren't bridged, anyway.

I looked over the board with a magnifying glass, and I only see two locations on the board that might be a bit sketchy, but I kind of doubt it, plus the most sketchy of the two - I don't think it could cause my problem.

Two pins, 7 and 9, on the amplifier chip, a TDA7294, might be bridged via flux or something with flecks of solder in it. The two pins are labeled "stand-by" and "+Vs (Signal)." The board has two of these chips, and this one appears to be for the woofer - so even if there was a problem, it doesn't seem connected to the tweeter. On the other hand, I've never been positive that it is only the tweeter that is cutting out, it has been hard to tell. It probably is, but...

The second sketchy thing is a dodgy solder job on one of the legs of a capacitor, the green one in the image below. The solder isn't fully bonded/adhered to the capacitor pin/leg, on one side. Doesn't seem like that would cause a problem, but I'll probably touch it up with a solder iron...

Here's a couple images, just to give you an idea of what I'm working with, not expecting any diagnostic here. The first is the 'amp board', top, the second is the back side. I've labeled the location of possible bridging of the two pins. I've included a link to a larger image that one should be able to zoom-in to...





Link to larger:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AskciUu3eSuSgRQJa0lti9PMzZxj

Last edited by eq1; 01-28-2021 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 01-26-2021, 05:18 PM   #12
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I cleaned between those two pins that might've been bridged - it didn't seem like it could cause a short/soft-short, it was just soft, sort of gooey material, I guess flux...

I also took an iron to that dodgy solder pad for capacitor leg.

Put it all back together, it plays, haven't heard the drop out, but we'll see... If it doesn't come back I'd really have no clue what I did that fixed it, I just can't see these little things having any impact.
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Old 01-27-2021, 05:00 AM   #13
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Well nothing lost and maybe much to gain!
Given good odds I would put money on that capacitor joint
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Old 01-27-2021, 10:51 AM   #14
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^ I listened to it for about 4 hours straight yesterday and never got the drop out. That's unusual. It was happening something like a couple times an hour, give or take, before I took it apart. I'll give it another couple days, and if I don't get the drop I'd have to say it's fixed...
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Old 01-28-2021, 02:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allybye View Post
...Given good odds I would put money on that capacitor joint
So, it's now been maybe 8 hours total of close listening - no drop outs. I'm convinced enough it's fixed that I'm returning the new replacement I bought...

So Allybye, you think it was likely that dodgy capacitor solder joint? I wish I took a picture of that. The solder blob around the capacitor leg had a hole in it, so that one side of the leg wasn't touching the solder blob - maybe 35% of the 'leg' was exposed. But, the other side looked fully touching/adhered to the solder blob...

Maybe despite "touching," it wasn't actually "adhered"?

Maybe the hole/incomplete solder blob suggests that the adhesion between the solder and the solder pad was likely bad?

I don't have a ton of experience with soldering...

Here's an image of that solder joint, cropped-out of the full board pic I posted earlier. It doesn't show the hole - the 'hole' in this pic would be underneath the tip of the cap leg. Looking at this pic, though, it almost looks like there's a gap around the leg - like the leg isn't bonded to the solder...

bad cap solder joint?:

Last edited by eq1; 01-28-2021 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 01-28-2021, 03:23 PM   #16
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I didn't comment but though a few on your original did not look great. A bit difficult to tell on a photo though with reflections etc.

A good joint should have no holes and show that the solder has flowed over all the 'copper' areas resulting in a smooth quite shiny finish. Anything less is suspect and is prone to failure over time !
An actual 'dry' joint has a crystaline looking surface and is also bad.

[The best solution for your fix would be to remove the old solder clean the area with alcohol (if there's any left in the bottle ), isopropyl is best, new flux and then heat just enough to make the added solder (just a little) flow well and allow to cool naturally without vibration. It is usual to heat the biggest mass most i.e. not via the printed track]

If it were me I'd hang on to the new one if money was no object.
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Old 01-28-2021, 04:25 PM   #17
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^Yeah, I probably should have totally redone that joint. I just heated it up until the existing solder re-melted. But, it seems to work, so I'll go with what I've got.

As far as returning my replacement goes, I'm not too jazzed on having an extra any longer. If either of the two I got fail then I'll have a reason to buy a different brand. I wasn't happy with the customer service I got, not inspired by the number of similar complaints about drop outs that I've read, etc.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it...


* * *

For any strays who may come across this thread, having similar problems, here's a couple tips if trying to access your board/s:

-Some of the things I've read make it seem simpler than it is, there's quite a bit more to remove, for instance, to access the main board.

-The number of screws that hold the back panel on, on my speaker, were really lose - and it's probably that way because those screws tap into very soft medium density fiber board. Don't go crazy with tightening those, go easy on them, because they'll easily strip out.

-The back panel isn't held in place with adhesive, but it is recessed into a 'rabbet' lined with a sort of soft stripping. It's a bit sticky, so you need to very gently pry the panel off. Find a spot along the edge where the gap is biggest, so you can fit a stiff plastic pry tool or screw driver to pry up on the panel. It doesn't take much effort, so go easy or you'll dent/scar the back of the cabinet.

-cables connect the woofer, tweeter, blue light to the 'main board'; these are cable-tied together, the cables are different lengths, with as I recall the woofer wires being the shortest. Overall you need to be able to detach the main board + heatsink from everything else, so you can work with it unencumbered. The cables have just enough slack to open up the back enough to see things and get to them, but not enough to really 'work' with anything. You need to free things up to gain more access...

-Snip the cable tie, loosen the bundle, reach into the cabinet and pull the spade terminal connectors off the woofer terminals. They're quite tight and it takes some gentle, careful effort. The terminals on the speaker side aren't the most robust - so be careful not to go crazy here or you'll seriously bend those.

-The tweeter cables have an intermediate connector, I think a two pin Molex. That's really tight, too. Disconnect the two halves there. You'll just have to work with it.

-A 6 or so pin JST connector and cable goes from the 'main board' to the input board. That needs to come off. The blue light cable also connects at the same place - that needs to come off. There's glue on this JST connector - major pain. Just carefully scrape off and cut around it to loosen the connector halves. Do the 2 pin light connector first. If you're having issues with the 6 pin, try wedging a flathead screw driver tip between the connector halves and gently pry and wiggle. That's what i needed to do, it wouldn't come out by 'just' pulling...

-The 4 or so pin large connector from the power transformer has to come off. That's got glue, too. Same methods as with JST connector. On both of these, the glue isn't voluminous, it's just enough to make this difficult, a hassle. i don't think it's there for engineering purposes; rather, I think it's there to deter meddling or to show that things have been meddled with...

-With all cables/connectors now removed, you can remove the three screws that hold the heatsink to the back panel and lift the whole main board + heat sink away from the cabinet.

-When re-installing the spade terminals on the woofer terminals, you'll probably have to gently squeeze the 'spades' together before trying to re-install so they go back on tight. When pulling them off, they will likely inevitably pry apart and then will only provide a loose connection if not 'squeezed' before re-installing.

I think that's about it.

Last edited by eq1; 01-28-2021 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 01-28-2021, 04:36 PM   #18
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Thanks for this thread - been looking at these for awhile trying to decide if I should get a pair. They generally seem really nice. I'm also looking at Kali LP6 - but they're HUGE and have their own issues like hissssss.

Are these quite when there is nothing playing? How do they sound?

As for solder joints - if you "carefully" wiggle the cap and look at the joint do you see the wire move? Sometimes you can see it better that way - see the wire move in the "blob"
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Old 01-28-2021, 04:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Are these quiet when there is nothing playing? How do they sound?
They seem very quiet - as long as you don't have a dodgy tankless hot water heater running somewhere in the house! (that's another one of my threads/issues, an older one).

I moved from some ancient Alesis Monitor Ones plus matching RA100 amp to these - and beyond that I have zero experience with monitors. They sound GREAT to me, unbelievable, really. Nice detailed, clear sound, much richer bass than I would have imagined yet not muddy, very loud, they seem quite natural to me - the frequency response...

Here's a link to the thread I made when first trying to decide whether I needed to move up from the Alesis monitors. I think there's a bit more along these lines there: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2288958


Quote:
Originally Posted by LCipher View Post
As for solder joints - if you "carefully" wiggle the cap and look at the joint do you see the wire move? Sometimes you can see it better that way - see the wire move in the "blob"
A little late to try this, since everything's buttoned-up, but I'll keep it in mind for next time.
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Old 02-06-2021, 10:06 AM   #20
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EXACTLY same problem with one of my JBL 305s.

Goes dead, blast level through it and it comes back to life... for awhile, then goes away.

Pulled it apart, same kind of internal plate amp; couldn't find a bad solder joint. I think it's a failure of something leading into the DSP on the chip that's making it go into a 'fail" state.

I would also guess there is a common denominator between the Eris board and the JBL.

Replacement board for the JBL costs basically as much as the monitor. So I'm stuck thinking should I risk buying just one as a replacement? The problem is that I've read reports of others having the same situation with the JBL (and with other cheaper self-powered monitors).

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Old 02-06-2021, 01:25 PM   #21
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^ Yeah, I don't know anything about the logistics/sourcing of 'amp boards', I'd guess they could all be very similar, or use the same 'chip', for instance.

What's weird with my issue is that my fix (which BTW is still working, I haven't heard a drop since) - my fix is different than what I've read of others' fixes. It's like, What?, can practically any bad solder joint cause a similar type of problem - signal drop/loss? It could be, I don't know...

Others for example said the solder joint for the tweeter itself was bad, but mine seems to have been this capacitor in the image above. If it was the possibly bridged pins on the amp chip - that too was never mentioned. I doubt it was that, pretty sure it was the capacitor, if you look closely at that image above you can see the capacitor leg isn't bonded to the solder blob. That's really hard to spot, I didn't notice it at first, looking through a 30X hand lens, but I can see it in the image - I did see the other side of that joint was completely void...

It might be worth taking another look at your board, before you decide to buy a replacement monitor.
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:04 PM   #22
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Update: signal loss has returned. It's clearly the tweeter dropping out. Not sure if 'my fix' was a fix, or if it was and now it's failing again, or if it's just coincidence that after I went in and mucked around the problem went away - and now I've got the same problem or a different problem...

Anyway, the tweeter has been dropping out - and I've been flicking it with my finger, the tweeter screen, which has seemed to make it come back to life (in addition to the previous method of cranking-up the input gain). But now I've dented the screen and need to pop it back into place. So I guess I'm opening this thing back up again.

Seems like a defective tweeter, maybe just removing it, making sure connections/wires are good, might do something. Don't think I'll be messing with the amp PCB this time, I'll assume that's OK and that it's the tweeter itself - i.e. I'll assume that my flicking has actually been bringing the tweeter back, that something must be loose or sticky or whatever...

[Later...]
Here's a few images of the tweeter. Not much to it. The only thing I can see that'd be 'wrong' would be a loose connection between the terminals and the...'transducer' stuff, I guess. But none of that is accessible without scraping off stuff, not sure exactly where the connections would be, probably under the black coating on the top-end side of the terminals, in the first image... Hard to tell how that's all connected. It looks like the terminals fit through a slot, and one end is bent (the topside), and maybe tiny wires are soldered there. The coating is kind of rumpled in that area, as if there's wires underneath...

Bear with me if these images don't show-up, I can't remember the exact way to do inline images from this hosting site, sometimes they show for me but not for others, etc...







OK, I see them, at least.

Incidentally, don't go doing the 'flicking the tweeter screen' method of reviving the tweeter. The screen's really flimsy and barely attached to the faceplate of the speaker cabinet itself. It will either dent, dent and fall off, dent and mash into the silk dome of the tweeter, etc. Not a smart thing to do...

IF you want to try to jostle the tweeter to see if it revives yours, rap on the plastic concave portion of the faceplate, right around the tweeter. The front of the speaker is a one piece molded plastic plate, with a molded recess into which the tweeter fits. So if you rap on the plastic around the tweeter, you'd be vibrating the tweeter itself.

Oh, also, there's no markings whatsoever on the tweeter. I thought maybe there'd be a somewhat generic replacement available, if there were identifying marks. I'm reluctant to bother trying to contact PreSonus about a replacement, they'll probably just say, 'we don't do that'.

Last edited by eq1; 04-16-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 04-16-2021, 09:27 PM   #23
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Argh. Presonus Eris E5 XT, same sort of problem, but it's the woofer cutting out until you blast some level through it.

I'm just going to send it back and get them to fix or replace it.

Audio Science Review has tested the E5 XT, and it doesn't look terribly good.

Average frequency response flatness, but good directivity, so correction EQ should work OK. Unfortunately lots of distortion from the woofer, especially as the volume gets higher.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.13436/

Was hoping to see results a bit better than that. With correction EQ applied, and keeping the level down under 85 ish db spl @ 1m, not so bad.

Last edited by drumphil; 04-16-2021 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:08 PM   #24
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^ Nice addition of data, not that I understand it all...

I looked it over and read most of the posts. On frequency response, I don't quite understand what's so bad. 'They' make it sound like the frequency response is way out of line from flat, but when I read the first graph, I see 'only'(?) an appx. +2.5 dB bump around 95Hz, about a -3 db dip at 3.5k, and a bump starting at about 8k and peaking at about 15k, which peak is 'only'(?) about +5 db. I think these measurements were taken at high/loud levels, too...

I think I'd be pretty hard pressed to hear a +2.5 db bump at 95Hz. I mean, I'm sure I could, but it doesn't seem like a big deal. -3 db at 3.5k - about the same, I'd be able to hear it, I think, but is it really that bad? +5 db at about 15k - I probably couldn't tell the difference. The monitors do seem bright - and the bass does seem rather sloppy, I can never get bass right with these monitors, but that seems likely due more to the drop off below about 60Hz than a 2.5 db bump at 95Hz...


In any event, update: opened up the monitor, inspected the tweeter, didn't see that I could do anything to it without ruining it, put everything back together, worked with them for a couple hours, didn't hear the tweeter drop out. The only thing I did was 'massage' the area where the wires to the tweeter must hookup with the terminals. Who knows. I'll report back if/when I hear drops again.

Oh yeah, one other thing: I reviewed some of the threads at the PreSonus forum about tweeter drop outs and the like, there's actually been multiple alleged 'fixes'. A few people report tweaked wires, where un-tweaking supposedly alleviated symptoms; a couple people reported bad solder joints, I mentioned one earlier, but in that one it didn't make sense, because the 'solder blob' connected two terminals that were both grounded - but un-blobing supposedly fixed it. And a couple others. There doesn't seem to be a consistent fix - it just seems like people open up the units and end up doing something, and then the units miraculously end up getting fixed... Doesn't make any sense.

Last edited by eq1; 04-17-2021 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 04-18-2021, 06:22 AM   #25
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Seems to me like poor quality manufacturing, manifesting in a variety of symptoms. And, compared to the good options, those frequency response deviations do seem to me to be a problem. That could be fixed with better drivers or cabinet configuration, or just DSP equalization. The distortion issue is unfixable with EQ. That requires a better woofer or amp, depending on which of the two is responsible for the distortion.

When you start to look at 5db variations in frequency response, that's not even in the ballpark of what modern reference monitoring is capable of, and definitely makes a difference in mixing decisions.

20 years ago I would have said, yeah well, they're all out of whack, so just use whatever sounds nice, but we have much better options these days.

And it doesn't necessarily mean spending a bunch of cash. Some DSP EQ, and a woofer that didn't distort as much, and the Eris E5 XT's could be amazing, for not much more than they cost now.

Last edited by drumphil; 04-18-2021 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 04-18-2021, 01:06 PM   #26
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hmm, well, the 5 db deviation was at 15k, I just don't see that making much of a difference - it wouldn't for me, as I recall, when I took a hearing test, I could not discern a 5 db change at 15k... i.e. whether a signal were 65db or 70db, 90 or 95, at 15k, I would not be able tell the difference between the two. I could be mixing up tests, I took a couple different ones. Basically, I can barely hear at 15k anyway, and I gather that's not uncommon...

On harmonic distortion: the real badness in the tests happened at 96db SPL, that's pretty loud. The graph at 86db shows only a little distortion at around 70 Hz. Even 86 db is loud, in the near-field listening position. I read the other day that something like 75 or 76 db was a more appropriate level for near-field mixing.

I'm not trying to argue that the monitors are great or anything like that; I'm merely trying to find some perspective. Personally, I have been considering buying new monitors. But they wouldn't be expensive ones, so not sure how much better I can get without shelling out a lot more money. Plus, I hardly know what 'better' sounds like in the first place. As I mentioned earlier, I only fairly recently stepped-up from ancient Alesis Monitor Ones to these...

edit: looking at that 3rd harmonic distortion graph. I wonder if 'all that' below about 100 Hz is partly or mainly why I haven't gotten bass right with these monitors (about 3.5% THD at 70Hz, >5% at about 30 Hz, etc.). The other day I switched to AKG 371 headphones after having mixed mostly with the monitors. The changes I had to make to the mix, on the low-end, were huge. The 371s supposedly go down to 5Hz. They have pretty well-extended bass... I generally assume small near-field monitors like these simply can't do much below... about 60Hz. I don't know. Unless I got bigger speakers, it doesn't seem like I'd be doing much better... The ~1% THD in the 200-500Hz range worries me, not sure what that would sound like, what that would entail. I also have a hard time dealing with that range as well...

Last edited by eq1; 04-18-2021 at 01:25 PM.
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