Stucked buffer (FIXED)

Dstruct · 09-22-2006, 06:02 PM

in stop-mode

-> play/monitor a vsti from a midikeyboard
-> open the audio-device panel (or close reaper) while you hear the sound of the vsti

=> stucked buffer

Dstruct · 09-26-2006, 12:22 PM

also happens sometimes when closing a project (which is in playback-mode)

just got it extremely weird: closed a project (while in playback-mode) -> no stucked buffer -> opened reaper => now reaper played something from the closed project (last buffer?) ... strange!

Dstruct · 12-16-2006, 10:03 PM

still remaining

Dstruct · 01-02-2007, 07:02 PM

justin? reaper's fault or the audio-driver's?

Jae.Thomas · 01-03-2007, 01:36 AM

doesnt seem to happen to me with asio4all.

Dstruct · 01-03-2007, 10:16 AM

if i remember correctly (don't have a soundcard to test at the moment) it doesn't/didn't happen always. so yeah maybe a driver-issue?

Justin · 01-03-2007, 01:10 PM

let me guess, RME?

Dstruct · 01-03-2007, 01:30 PM

of course

so you know what's the problem? please tell me. then i can ask the guys at rme ...

Justin · 01-03-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dandruff

of course

so you know what's the problem? please tell me. then i can ask the guys at rme ...

they really need to clear their buffers on asio close.. I thought I added something to address that, but maybe I'll take a look at that again..

Dstruct · 01-03-2007, 10:58 PM

ok, i'll send a mail to rme too ...

Dstruct · 01-05-2007, 09:27 AM

just tried it to reproduce with reaper 1.60. no chance. seems to be fixed. let's see ...

Dstruct · 01-08-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

they really need to clear their buffers on asio close

ok, just got a response from rme too.

-----------------------------------
"clearing the buffers on asio close" is something the rme drivers do (of course)!

to them it seems reaper doesn't behave correctly in some situations

-> buffers have to be created
-> buffers needs to be filled
-> asio playback has to be started

-> later playback has to be stopped first
-> buffers have to be cleared
-> stop asio

typical mistakes are to just stop asio in some situations or to clear the buffers without stopping playback before.

the rme drivers contain certain routines which help to handle crashes and buggy programming of programs better.

the next beta18 (hdsp drivers) will get an additional routine which also clears the buffers where the program didn't do it (just stopped asio for example).

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

they really need to clear their buffers on asio close.. I thought I added something to address that, but maybe I'll take a look at that again..

just tested this again on reaper 1.69 after a fresh windows-reboot (so no other applications have played anything before, windows sounds disabled as well):

-> start reaper
-> start playback
-> close reaper while playback

=> can't hear any hanging buffers

BUT:

-> restart reaper

=> now i hear the (last) buffer(s) from the previous closed session for a very short time!? reaper-problem or driver-problem? to me it looks like an reaper-issue, as other asio-applications don't show this behaviour!

the option "pre-zero output buffers" also doesn't help to solve this problem!

Justin · 01-20-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dandruff

reaper-problem or driver-problem? to me it looks like an reaper-issue, as other asio-applications don't show this behaviour!

Vegas often does with RME.. but no other ASIO driver shows this behavior...

Try this version:

http://reaper.fm/files/reaper169_rme.zip

(pre-zero output buffers should be on)

-Justin

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 11:05 AM

seems to be a bit better, but not completely. this "remaining" buffer seems to be a bit shorter now. but there's no difference between enabled and disabled "pre-zero buffers"!?

also when closing reaper (while playback) i get a (nasty) click/crackle. and i get it when restarting reaper.

again: foobar2000 (@asio) behaves absolutely smooth (not a single crackle or stucked buffer) when doing the same (closing while playback and reopening the app)!?

Justin · 01-20-2007, 11:08 AM

I'm doing everything per their instructions.. so I dunno..

is the nasty crackle on close new in this version or was it there before?

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 11:08 AM

also before.

Justin · 01-20-2007, 11:11 AM

hmm, you can tell the RME folks that we do something like this:

Code:

if (pre_zero_mode_is_on)
{
//  wait until the audio callback has delivered 4 frames of silence
}

ASIOStop();
ZeroAllOutputBuffers(); 
ASIODisposeBuffers();
ASIOExit();

ask them if there is something wrong with that? It works perfectly EVERYWHERE else..

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 11:19 AM

ok i'll do so.

so you can close reaper while playback (and reopen after that) without getting any glitches on your motu?

note (just tested more): when just playing one audio-track it's a bit better! sometimes i even get no glitch when closing reaper while playback in this case! but the last buffer still plays for a short time on reopening in this case too.

but i'm not working with audio in the "problem" project. just my vstis (surge and shortcircuit).

maybe you can also do bit more testing with heavier vsti-loaded project?

Justin · 01-20-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dandruff

ok i'll do so.

so you can close reaper while playback (and reopen after that) without getting any glitches on your motu?

note (just tested more): when just playing one audio-track it's a bit better! sometimes i even get no glitch when closing reaper while playback in this case!

but i'm not working with audio in the "problem" project. just my vstis (surge and shortcircuit).

maybe you can also do bit more testing with heavier vsti-loaded project?

I get absolutely no glitches in those scenarios, even on projects that are using 90%+ of my dual cores. I'll test with more VSTi, though...

same goes for asio4all on laptop hardware..

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 11:25 AM

ok, thank you!

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 11:50 AM

@other rme-users: do you also get this behaviour?

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 12:33 PM

@justin: did you test with "always run track FX" enabled? if i disable it it seems i just get the crackle(s), but not the hanging buffer when restarting reaper!?

Dstruct · 01-20-2007, 07:29 PM

Just (3:00am @ Sunday) got a response from RME. The guy said if Reaper would do

------------------------
if (pre_zero_mode_is_on)
{
// wait until the audio callback has delivered 4 frames of silence
}

ASIOStop();
ZeroAllOutputBuffers();
ASIODisposeBuffers();
ASIOExit();
-----------------------

ALWAYS (means in EVERY situation), then there would be no problem!

pipelineaudio · 01-22-2007, 09:21 AM

my fighting with RME goes back years. The guys had always been arrogant asses, and we couldnt get their stuff to work in anything but cubendo. When synthax got Magix, all of a sudden RME worked in samplitude fine when it hadnt before.

Ive been trying to get any RME help for reaper since the beginning, but we have years of angst between us

Justin got the RME stuff running way better in here than vegas, but still I get the stuck buffer problems often.

Im glad you got thbru to them, cant wait to see what Justin will cook up in response....

I love this part "the rme drivers contain certain routines which help to handle crashes and buggy programming of programs better.
"

RME are the only cards that bug out like this in reaper, vegas and sonar, even soundblasters dont have this trouble...bah, but when they work, they work so good!!!!!

Dstruct · 01-22-2007, 10:15 AM

but the thing is here it happens only with reaper!?

Justin · 01-22-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dandruff

Just (3:00am @ Sunday) got a response from RME. The guy said if Reaper would do

------------------------
if (pre_zero_mode_is_on)
{
// wait until the audio callback has delivered 4 frames of silence
}

ASIOStop();
ZeroAllOutputBuffers();
ASIODisposeBuffers();
ASIOExit();
-----------------------

ALWAYS (means in EVERY situation), then there would be no problem!

REAPER does this in all closing-audio scenarios, whether playing or not.. If it is hanging and you kill it from the task manager it wouldn't, but hitting alt+F4 while playing back should absolutely do that.

So...

Dstruct · 01-22-2007, 12:15 PM

no, it doesn't. but: it seems it depends on the actual play-position (maybe not zereo-crossing sounds ...), so that it sometimes is a bit better and sometimes it's worse.

and i use the mouse to close reaper (clicking "x" in the titlebar) - but alt+f4 seems to have the same behaviour ...

Justin · 01-22-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dandruff

no, it doesn't

You're telling me that that code isn't being called when you quit by clicking close or Alt+F4? How do you know this?

I'm looking at what happens there, and I can say that it is.. unless something really bizarre is happening on your system (i.e. the process gets terminated before our message loop exits, which would be very odd)..

Justin · 01-22-2007, 01:22 PM

here try this:

http://reaper.fm/files/reaper169_rme2.zip

this will show an annoying messagebox every time the audio device is about to be closed. do your close and see if it pops open...

-Justin

pipelineaudio · 01-22-2007, 01:22 PM

I can close reaper and have the last sound stuck reapeating until I open another audio app and do something with the drivers, like play a file

some apps I have to play something to get the noise to stop, with reaper you need only open the app

This same thing happens in sonar, sound forge, and vegas with the rme cards

pipelineaudio · 01-22-2007, 01:29 PM

ok with this test build, it pops up the box right in the place where before I would hear the stuck buffer, is that the same for you dandruff?

Dstruct · 01-22-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

here try this:

http://reaper.fm/files/reaper169_rme2.zip

this will show an annoying messagebox every time the audio device is about to be closed. do your close and see if it pops open...

-Justin

now i get this:

-> playback
-> close

=> i hear a short crackle (maybe this is normal due to the position when not at zero-crossing!? although i don't get this crackle in foobar@asio)

-> now the pop-up will be displayed

=> and finally: NOT a single crackle or buffer when reopening reaper! great! so this is a fix or what?

Dstruct · 01-22-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

You're telling me that that code isn't being called when you quit by clicking close or Alt+F4? How do you know this?

ggr. i just wanted to say that it (or something) isn't working correctly. i don't care who's fault it is (rme's or reaper's) as long as all developers communicate with me to narrow things down to solve this problem!

easy