Old 04-25-2012, 11:12 AM   #41
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How can you sleep Pod and I am here Amp?

Right or wrong, I use both amps and SIMs and don't generally claim that I can tell. I have nothing against either and typically any time spent worrying about which is which is time I could have spent writing/playing. Anyway thought I would take a guess. I'll tell you why I guessed which after the result.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:32 AM   #42
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How can you sleep Pod and I am here Amp?
Correct!
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:39 AM   #43
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Correct!
Yay

When recording my real amps vs my POD I always seem to notice the POD sounds "closer" to the mic than the amp and a little more in your face unless I go to extremes in order to isolate the room ambience from the real amp (as in throwing blankets over it). I don't consider that a bad thing as most close micing techniques try to achieve just that even if they also want some ambience. So that is all I listened for and let me reiterate that I don't consider that a weakness in some aspects I consider it a strength, just depends on the application.

Due to the above, another test I think would be interesting in general would be to simply play a recorded POD track through the monitors and x/y or m/s record one of the monitors at about 6-8 inches back and use that. I think this would remove what most people are able to identify between the two. I used to do this exact trick with drum machines years ago, record the drum machine, then re-record the recorded track with a mic back from the monitors and blend that back in. Made it sound more like real drums every time.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:49 AM   #44
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Boray can you let us know which amp u used for I am here and what microphone? thanks!
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:50 AM   #45
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I should have linked to a song with some other amp simulation than the Pod to trick you! I'm using Cotrex Stack most of the time now days and sometimes Amplitube.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:59 AM   #46
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and also if Cotrex Stack sounds better than pod in ur opinion
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:59 AM   #47
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Boray can you let us know which amp u used for I am here and what microphone? thanks!
It's a Peavey Envoy and a ADK A51 type V condenser mic. Hey I even have a picture of it when recording the song!

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Old 04-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #48
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wow nice!
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:56 PM   #49
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and also if Cotrex Stack sounds better than pod in ur opinion
I haven't really compared. It's mostly out of convenience. When I used the pod I recorded it wet. With amp sim plugins I can tweak the sound afterwards so much more easily.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:00 PM   #50
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But I would say the Pod has more sound opportunities than Cortex Stack.

Amplitube sounds pretty real to me, could be sounding more real than the pod but it uses a lot of cpu time, and sounding "real" is not my main concern really... it's sounding good in a full mix.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:44 PM   #51
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I hate these threads because what sounds fake/real/good/bad is so subjective and so dependent on so many variables....

.... but that said, I record with amp sims almost exclusively and play live with tube amps exclusively. When using a sim, the only issue I have compared to a real amp is:

1: Dynamics. There is something about lowering the volume pot on the guitar when using a tube amp and picking soft for a wonderful clean sounds then picking harder for a gritty sound that an amp sim just can't capture (in my experiences).

2: Intentional Feedback/sustain. Turn your amp up and let a note ring out and get beautiful feedback and almost infinite sustain. Ain't happenin' (for me) on a sim.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:47 PM   #52
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2: Intentional Feedback/sustain. Turn your amp up and let a note ring out and get beautiful feedback and almost infinite sustain. Ain't happenin' (for me) on a sim.
i guess that is pretty impossible on a sim.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:50 PM   #53
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i guess that is pretty impossible on a sim.
I've heard/read that if you crank up your monitors and point your pickups at it you can get feedback. Of course I tried it but it just doesn't sound good (to me).
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:54 PM   #54
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I started recording like this



Went to my VHT 3watt tube amp and then to this



But now just use Amplitube.Its just so handy.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:54 PM   #55
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I've heard/read that if you crank up your monitors and point your pickups at it you can get feedback. Of course I tried it but it just doesn't sound good (to me).
I can confirm, you can do that...but yeah, it ain't even nearly the same.

One other thing that I can't get my amp sims to do (and part of this is because I'm not a strong player) is flirt with the break point on a tube amp. On a tube amp you seem to get a nice, wide range from mostly clean to mostly distorted and the various sweet spots in between. When I'm wearing my engineer hat, I can often fake it by automating some of the levels on the sim to extend that sweet spot as needed. But I am not able to get that same range while playing guitar. So I'm agreeing that it's probably a bigger issue for guitar players (and the feel of playing into one) then for engineers trying to get a guitar part to fit into a mix.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:02 PM   #56
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One other thing that I can't get my amp sims to do (and part of this is because I'm not a strong player) is flirt with the break point on a tube amp. On a tube amp you seem to get a nice, wide range from mostly clean to mostly distorted and the various sweet spots in between. When I'm wearing my engineer hat, I can often fake it by automating some of the levels on the sim to extend that sweet spot as needed. But I am not able to get that same range while playing guitar. So I'm agreeing that it's probably a bigger issue for guitar players (and the feel of playing into one) then for engineers trying to get a guitar part to fit into a mix.
Agree. This is what I tried to explain in my Dynamics point above. But it is what it is. If I NEED that, I use an amp. Otherwise, I live with the limitations. I mostly record metal anyways and I actually prefer using a sim for distorted tones. Plus I record dry so I can change the tone on the fly if necessary. Can't do that recording a real amp.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:58 PM   #57
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i guess that is pretty impossible on a sim.
Not impossible, but you'd need to solve the 0-delay feedback problem. It has already been cracked by e.g. UA for their Moog Multimode Filter (tip: put your guitar thru *that* MF ), and more recently by u-he for the feedback in Diva's filters.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:39 PM   #58
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I'd say that rather than use monitors for feedback... hook the audio up to an okay receiver using meatier speakers for that. Who needs a flat response to get feedback, haha~ Pull out your "listening quality" speakers and crank it!

I had an issue at first getting a decent setting for dynamic tones but after working with it for awhile, amp sims are definitely capable. The power is in your playing~

If you want to get good stuff out of sims, you gotta change your old underwear with all the butt crust that's built up. Put on a new pair and you'll be more flexible with tubes and sims

Anyways, I love both... so I'm biased.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:18 PM   #59
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I really have made good experience with this amp sim http://www.vandalamps.com/en/#.
Especially with crunchy, dynamic sounds.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:32 PM   #60
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I hate these threads because what sounds fake/real/good/bad is so subjective and so dependent on so many variables....

.... but that said, I record with amp sims almost exclusively and play live with tube amps exclusively. When using a sim, the only issue I have compared to a real amp is:

1: Dynamics. There is something about lowering the volume pot on the guitar when using a tube amp and picking soft for a wonderful clean sounds then picking harder for a gritty sound that an amp sim just can't capture (in my experiences).

2: Intentional Feedback/sustain. Turn your amp up and let a note ring out and get beautiful feedback and almost infinite sustain. Ain't happenin' (for me) on a sim.
I heard some great feedback by a guy using an Amp Sim with some homemade Feedback Loop in Bidule and was pretty impressed.
I will see him Friday and maybe copy his brg./prgm. he made.
Not sure if you ever heard Vincebus Eruptum by Blue Cheer. But he gets that control of pitch/harmonic with excellent control and there's no stage monitor/amp.
Some gigs we have strict rules due to the proximity of the Black Jack Tables etc. Use to just avoid those gigs, but unforntunately they still come around.
I do know he's using Softubes VST version of an old DSP plug called Dynatube, but the plug itself has no feedback.
I bought Softubes Feedback Plug In and ended up giving it away it sucked so bad. 5th harmonic only, and it sounded like a Synth Edit Sine Wave...
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:37 PM   #61
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I started recording like this



Went to my VHT 3watt tube amp and then to this



But now just use Amplitube.Its just so handy.
Hey DJ is that an old SG Standard '72 w/ Grovers...?
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:58 PM   #62
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Nah,its only a few years old..but they are Grovers!

I changed them from the stock ones because the tuning wouldnt hold..neednt have bothered because it was just that the bridge was set too low and the strings were catching.I got the heads second hand though so no harm really.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:22 AM   #63
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that's an interesting thread for sure.
here's a teaser of a four videos set to be released by this project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhft1tqdUM8

Since we wanted to record it live, focusing on the drum sound mostly, guitars were tracked with DI to avoid guitar amps bleeding into drum mics, passed through guitar heads&cabs software emulations.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:37 PM   #64
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I recently finished recording my band's first album, and we used Guitar Rig 4 for all of the guitar sounds. I got it for about $150, which seemed like the cheap/decent quality route to go at the time.

Here is my opinion, having used it for various tones throughout the album.
-Many of the presets they give you aren't that great. You need to modify or create new presets to get really good sounds.
-The noise gate on it is amazing if you always have problems with buzzing from old amps, but it takes away from some of the sound I think.
-The clean settings are not powerful at all compared to real amplifiers. I recently recorded a riff with guitar rig and then with an amplifier, and the amplifier sounded much better... and here's why:

MAJOR CON- The sounds from guitar rig, as good as I got them (distorted/clean), were not nearly as full or thick compared to using an amplifier. You don't get the same spectrum of sound and it just sounds weaker in comparison. Doesn't give it a big "dramatic" effect like real amps.

To listen to the simulated guitars in our album, you can go here: http://www.reverbnation.com/twilightbeforesunrise
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:41 AM   #65
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Here is my opinion, having used it for various tones throughout the album.
-Many of the presets they give you aren't that great. You need to modify or create new presets to get really good sounds. http://www.reverbnation.com/twilightbeforesunrise
approaching vst amp sims is just another beast than the real ones, not necessarily the worst option if you take care of few things, like a D.I. and the right input level.
Like micing a real amp, you have to make some adjustment until you're happy with it.
Chose your vst amp sim, spend some time making your own setting according to your guitar type, signal impedance, etc. and stick with it.
In my opinion, it's not so different than having a real amp: like the real one, you have to get used to your (virtual or real) stuff...
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:17 AM   #66
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if anyone has a 1-2 comparison between a real amp recording and a good amp simulator playing the same part let us know thanks
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:30 AM   #67
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By the way... Why is sounding "real" the goal? Wouldn't sounding better than "real" be better?
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:00 AM   #68
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Some of the best tunes ever recorded have some of the worst sounding guitars on them. It's not about whether an amp or a modeler sounds better, it's about the sound you're looking for.

Back in the 1980s, there was a headphone practice amp called the Scholz Rockman. I can't even remember how many guitarists brought these into the studio and had me record tracks with it, because they couldn't duplicate that sound with a wall of amps and outboard gear.

Modelers sound great if you know how to use them.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:24 AM   #69
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I really have made good experience with this amp sim http://www.vandalamps.com/en/#.
Especially with crunchy, dynamic sounds.
Just tried the demo. I'm impressed. Sounds good, an easy and fast interface and only uses 1/3 of the cpu power compared to Amplitube.

The volume just started to go up and down now suddenly though, even though it says I have 7 days left on my testing period... :-/
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:58 AM   #70
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https://www.youtube.com/results?searc...guitar+amp+vst
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:56 AM   #71
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i think companies making the amp sims should have some real amp comparement on their sites, do they? i think no.... maybe they scared to do so
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:03 AM   #72
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i think companies making the amp sims should have some real amp comparement on their sites, do they? i think no.... maybe they scared to do so
oh they do.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:04 AM   #73
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where :/
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:44 AM   #74
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"do amp simulators sound fake? "
10years ago: yes
today: no
sometimes you need to get creative with the eq to get the desired result, since they often try to cram in as much as they can from each "amp" with as few "knobs" as possiblee. but you can get there..
I use podfarm with metal modelpack, since I wanted the JCM2000 models( I love that amp in real life) and as they come there is much to much lows and the gain is probably modeled from the ultragain 2 seting so with the gain up its too spiky. but turn down the gain and use a lowcut after the "amp" and I get it close enough that I no longer bother with driving off to the rehearsalspace to record my DSL100
..opinion of course but still..
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:16 PM   #75
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Just adding my 2 cents here.

I acheive the sounds I like with an hybrid solution.
I plug my guitar to my preamp and record the preamp out, then add a speaker sim (and sometimes where suited a poweramp sim) with an IR.
And when I do have the time I go to a friend's place where I can record on a preamp in a poweramp in a Two-notes Torpedo VB-101. It really rocks !

Besides that you'd be surprise to hear the good tones you can get from a preamp or even a stompbox directly into your audio interface with a cab sim.

If you want to give it a try, there's now tons of free IR of very could guitar cabs (and two-notes has a free version of their plugins with poweramp and cab sim).
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:31 PM   #76
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For me, it's a case of buying 1 really good expensive amp or ...
a multitude of cabs, amps, IR's, mic's, etc, etc to choose from.

You can always get a good sound from ampsims, it's just some of us take a loooooong time to get there.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:09 AM   #77
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Real amps sound 3,14159265(...) times better.
I measured it very, very accurately...
haha Nice..
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:12 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by memorex View Post
Some of the best tunes ever recorded have some of the worst sounding guitars on them. It's not about whether an amp or a modeler sounds better, it's about the sound you're looking for.

Back in the 1980s, there was a headphone practice amp called the Scholz Rockman. I can't even remember how many guitarists brought these into the studio and had me record tracks with it, because they couldn't duplicate that sound with a wall of amps and outboard gear.

Modelers sound great if you know how to use them.
Yep I was one of those guitarists too. In fact Tom Scholtz was a major influence on my career choice because of his work. I had the XP1100 Head too..
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:14 AM   #79
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i guess that is pretty impossible on a sim.
Absolutely not impossible...
Go download the head case 1.53 beta here, crank the skull job head up and it Will feedback. Its a little easier to get with a real amp, but if you want it to feedback it will..
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:39 AM   #80
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Bunch of dudes did a blind test some time ago

http://www.emusician.com/techniques/...vs-amps/141292

and came to the conclusion that "not really". Also there's plenty of great sounding albums recorded with those already. So I guess the solution is stopping worrying and recording stuff however you like.
I can't tell the difference anymore, maybe during mixing, not in the final product. If you'd have asked me the same question 5 years ago, I would have given you a different answer. Especially not in the context of the guitar being played through a sim, adding compression, adding reverb, etc.

Still, one thing that remains different, and why I sometimes record through an amp, is actually due to the objectively BAD sound I get from an old amp. I have one with a spring reverb unit that I think is bent.

Also, at this point in vst time, good guitar clean amp sims are more difficult to find.
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