Old 09-11-2018, 10:41 AM   #41
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That was exactly what I was doing with DejaDup. After making a backup of my home folder using it, I decided to test restore it to a folder on my 1TB NTFS drive. DejaDup says you can restore to other locations, so I assumed that I could restore to a folder on an NTFS partition, and it would ALL live inside that folder, but instead it corrupted the entire drive.
Corruption in the NTFS file tables?

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I'd seen that happen before with drives that had bad sectors or were failing in some way at the physical level, but never with a perfectly functioning drive. I get the impression that DejaDup messed with things outside the folder I instructed it to restore my test backup into.
It needs to mess outside the folder, as NTFS requires writing the "last access time and date" to the file table. Useful info, but dangerous when cloning. Either the software doesn't follow the rule, like dd, or it creates a small risk of corrupting everything.

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I totally remember the backup issue with DOS because I was the programmer/tech support for a DOS program that had on it's menu backup and restore options that called the backup and restore from DOS. I had to help many customers roll back the previous version of the restore program, and then add a "version" override so DOS4 would allow it to run, and not kick out a version mismatch error.
Those were the days

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I finally did toss out all my old drives smaller than 40GB, after smashing them pretty good with a claw-hammer.
I keep them for the rare case I need a controller to resurrect another drive for data recovery. Had to do just that a few years ago to get to the layout of record sleeves from a local singer. These resided on a SCSI harddisk in a Mac clone from the late 80's. The record company had asked one of their interns who knew about old Macs to get the data off this disk. The lad tried to install a 3.3V USB PCI card, forgetting that the PCI bus was 5V. When the PSU in the clone blew, it took out everything. Fortunately, I had the same type lying around, so they could publish the 50th anniversary CD for the artist including the artwork of all record sleeves.

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So no thoughts on things that might improve router security? I checked to see if any newer firmware was available, and I am already running the last one produced. Remote administration has never been enabled, no port forwarding is enabled, ipv6 is only enabled locally, Wifi has a guest network that is for things like Rokus, BluRay DVD player, and anything I feel might be a security hole. Oh, and UPnP is disabled.

Anything else I should take a look at?
Which router do you use?

Apple's routers are amongst the safest on the planet. Not that Apple had to do much with that, as they are developed by a third party. And some of the security is through obscurity. But they're also not Linux based and they don'r run a webserver...

Otherwise, Ubiquity and MikroTik are pretty solid.

On most other routers, I'd install some other software, like Tomato or DD-WRT as most manufacturers don't provide updated firmware, even when dangerous exploits are possible with their gear. Botnets running on routers are very popular lately.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:47 AM   #42
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Magnet fishing

See Youtube.
That is funny! I just watched a couple guys pull a whole two wheeler dolly out of the water with a 500 Lb pull magnet!!!
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:23 AM   #43
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Corruption in the NTFS file tables?

It needs to mess outside the folder, as NTFS requires writing the "last access time and date" to the file table. Useful info, but dangerous when cloning. Either the software doesn't follow the rule, like dd, or it creates a small risk of corrupting everything.
I figured that it was something like that. DejaDup trying to update journal records or something. I just wanted a copy of my home folder that wasn't compressed, where I could do a simple copy from it if I hosed something.

Some elements in the home folder can be straight up copied to other media, but other files and folders either have permission or file in use issues when trying to just copy them elsewhere. Since that fiasco, I decided to just clone entire drives, uncompressed, and unaltered from the originals, so there is no chance of screwing anything up on the drives that are in use.


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Those were the days
I was fortunate enough to be using a DOS programming language that included a 32 bit console mode runtime for Windows NT. With almost no changes to the millions of lines of code, we were able to keep the product alive and competitive all the way through Windows 10, and by the time I left a few years ago, I had programmed hooks all over the place into Windows .dlls, which could be called directly from within the coding of the app, so we could do things you wouldn't think possible from an old character mode DOS looking program.

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I keep them for the rare case I need a controller to resurrect another drive for data recovery. Had to do just that a few years ago to get to the layout of record sleeves from a local singer. These resided on a SCSI harddisk in a Mac clone from the late 80's. The record company had asked one of their interns who knew about old Macs to get the data off this disk. The lad tried to install a 3.3V USB PCI card, forgetting that the PCI bus was 5V. When the PSU in the clone blew, it took out everything. Fortunately, I had the same type lying around, so they could publish the 50th anniversary CD for the artist including the artwork of all record sleeves.
I know another guy who has done the very same thing. I just assumed that the controllers on old Seagate 8 and 10 GB drives wouldn't be of any use with newer and larger capacity drives.

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Which router do you use?
It's a DIR-655 Xtreme.

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Apple's routers are amongst the safest on the planet. Not that Apple had to do much with that, as they are developed by a third party. And some of the security is through obscurity. But they're also not Linux based and they don'r run a webserver...

Otherwise, Ubiquity and MikroTik are pretty solid.

On most other routers, I'd install some other software, like Tomato or DD-WRT as most manufacturers don't provide updated firmware, even when dangerous exploits are possible with their gear. Botnets running on routers are very popular lately.
Don't the botnets need UPnP for a NAT injection? I have UPnP totally disabled on my router. I'm also considering going back to only allowing a white list of MAC addresses, which I ran for a while but my son kept buying new shit and I had to keep going through the three or so steps to get an new MAC address added.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:48 PM   #44
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I figured that it was something like that. DejaDup trying to update journal records or something. I just wanted a copy of my home folder that wasn't compressed, where I could do a simple copy from it if I hosed something.

Some elements in the home folder can be straight up copied to other media, but other files and folders either have permission or file in use issues when trying to just copy them elsewhere. Since that fiasco, I decided to just clone entire drives, uncompressed, and unaltered from the originals, so there is no chance of screwing anything up on the drives that are in use.
Personally, I've given up on NTFS. I'm too old too waste my time n stuff like that. I need a computer to just work.


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I was fortunate enough to be using a DOS programming language that included a 32 bit console mode runtime for Windows NT. With almost no changes to the millions of lines of code, we were able to keep the product alive and competitive all the way through Windows 10, and by the time I left a few years ago, I had programmed hooks all over the place into Windows .dlls, which could be called directly from within the coding of the app, so we could do things you wouldn't think possible from an old character mode DOS looking program.
I used Windows up to NT4 sp6a. Around 2000. Then I started realising there should be something better. I looked back at products like FreeDOS and stared using open source. I haven't looked back. While supporting W2K, XP and 7, I couldn't keep from wondering how people could live with Microsoft products. There must be an awful lot of masochists out there.

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I know another guy who has done the very same thing. I just assumed that the controllers on old Seagate 8 and 10 GB drives wouldn't be of any use with newer and larger capacity drives.
You can't exchange controllers anymore. Calibration data for head alignment is stored in the controller chip memory. It'll only work if you're lucky enough to have a controller that doesn't differ too much.


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It's a DIR-655 Xtreme.
Dlink. I'll delve into the archive tomorrow. See what turns up. From memory, it's one of the better Dlinks. UPnP and HNAP are however a problem, IIRC. But there's only 1 CVE:

https://www.cvedetails.com/product/3...?vendor_id=899

And that's from 2015. Should be patched by now. The old ones had a backdoor, tho. Hope Cisco got wiser.

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Don't the botnets need UPnP for a NAT injection? I have UPnP totally disabled on my router. I'm also considering going back to only allowing a white list of MAC addresses, which I ran for a while but my son kept buying new shit and I had to keep going through the three or so steps to get an new MAC address added.
In the past, the malware was running on the PC and needed UPnP to get out, bypassing firewalls etc. These days, it's far easier to run the malware on the router. Direct connection to the outside world. Running 24/7. No upgrades... A bit less CPU. No bitcoin mining
But the lesser CPU is compensated by the number of routers you can get infected in a day. And an attack launched from a router botnet is harder to counter, because of that number. You don't need much CPU to send malformed packets.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:47 AM   #45
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Personally, I've given up on NTFS. I'm too old too waste my time n stuff like that. I need a computer to just work.
I will eventually (sometime before 2020) have all my machines running Linux and NTFS will no longer be on any of them.

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I used Windows up to NT4 sp6a. Around 2000. Then I started realising there should be something better. I looked back at products like FreeDOS and stared using open source. I haven't looked back. While supporting W2K, XP and 7, I couldn't keep from wondering how people could live with Microsoft products. There must be an awful lot of masochists out there.
I ran an Amiga 2000 with a GoldenGate bridgeboard around 2000. I primarily used the Amiga, but since my job was programming for PCs, the bridgeboard gave me a full fledged hardware PC with a couple 16 bit ISA slots, all in the same box. I'd have stuck with the Amiga if Commode-Odor hadn't run the ship aground.

After the demise of the Amiga, I had to get a real PC to continue working on stuff at home.

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You can't exchange controllers anymore. Calibration data for head alignment is stored in the controller chip memory. It'll only work if you're lucky enough to have a controller that doesn't differ too much.
The guy I knew who swapped boards had almost identical drives and one of them failed, so he tried it and was able to offload the data successfully.

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Dlink. I'll delve into the archive tomorrow. See what turns up. From memory, it's one of the better Dlinks. UPnP and HNAP are however a problem, IIRC. But there's only 1 CVE:

https://www.cvedetails.com/product/3...?vendor_id=899

And that's from 2015. Should be patched by now. The old ones had a backdoor, tho. Hope Cisco got wiser.
That is in fact a page I found as well several years ago when the firmware for my router was still beta, but addressed the cross-site scripting. I also use NoScript and never allow XSS from my web browser. I see a lot of web pages that are real broken looking, and some won't display a thing on my screen. If I don't specifically know who the site is and it comes up blank, I close it down with the attitude that if they insist on making their page non-functional without all the scripting, then I'm not a viewer of their page.

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In the past, the malware was running on the PC and needed UPnP to get out, bypassing firewalls etc. These days, it's far easier to run the malware on the router. Direct connection to the outside world. Running 24/7. No upgrades... A bit less CPU. No bitcoin mining
But the lesser CPU is compensated by the number of routers you can get infected in a day. And an attack launched from a router botnet is harder to counter, because of that number. You don't need much CPU to send malformed packets.
I fire up WireShark now and then, just to see what the traffic is going around on the network. I would imagine if a botnet was being run on my router, I would see a lot of unusual activity. Is that correct?
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:45 AM   #46
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I will eventually (sometime before 2020) have all my machines running Linux and NTFS will no longer be on any of them.

I ran an Amiga 2000 with a GoldenGate bridgeboard around 2000. I primarily used the Amiga, but since my job was programming for PCs, the bridgeboard gave me a full fledged hardware PC with a couple 16 bit ISA slots, all in the same box. I'd have stuck with the Amiga if Commode-Odor hadn't run the ship aground.

After the demise of the Amiga, I had to get a real PC to continue working on stuff at home.
Never did anything with Amiga's, but a friend was playing around with video on one of those. And he had a bridgeboard too, IIRC.

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The guy I knew who swapped boards had almost identical drives and one of them failed, so he tried it and was able to offload the data successfully.
That's why I buy HD's in batches. At least a pair. Of course, it's all SSD these days. No data recovery possible.

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That is in fact a page I found as well several years ago when the firmware for my router was still beta, but addressed the cross-site scripting. I also use NoScript and never allow XSS from my web browser. I see a lot of web pages that are real broken looking, and some won't display a thing on my screen. If I don't specifically know who the site is and it comes up blank, I close it down with the attitude that if they insist on making their page non-functional without all the scripting, then I'm not a viewer of their page.
Pretty hardline

I can"t do that, as a lot of the systems I need generate webpages with svg graphs and pull in data from several sources. That's the main reason I need to keep browsers reasonably up-to-date.

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I fire up WireShark now and then, just to see what the traffic is going around on the network. I would imagine if a botnet was being run on my router, I would see a lot of unusual activity. Is that correct?
You can't see traffic from the router to the net on your computer, unless WireShark would be running on the router. That won't work with your average SOHO router, I think. But it's an interesting idea. I might explore that if I don't forget due to lack of time
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:56 AM   #47
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Personally, I've given up on NTFS. I'm too old too waste my time n stuff like that. I need a computer to just work.
Is there yet any other good option for a windows/linux-compatible partition with no filesize limitation? Last i looked in to e.g. ext4 drivers for windows and such it was not a practical/safe way to go...
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:13 AM   #48
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Never did anything with Amiga's, but a friend was playing around with video on one of those. And he had a bridgeboard too, IIRC.
They were great machines with preemptive multitasking and a hybrid Unix/DOS kind of OS. Light years ahead of other systems. I have this Amiga emulator in Linux (https://fs-uae.net/) and restored three of my old Amiga HDs from virtual floppies so I can actually boot my old Amiga and run all it's programs, from three different time periods. It runs just like the real thing, but I can't do things like plug in any of the video hardware I still have.

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That's why I buy HD's in batches. At least a pair. Of course, it's all SSD these days. No data recovery possible.
That makes sense. Hehe, with SSDs the board is the drive!

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Pretty hardline

I can"t do that, as a lot of the systems I need generate webpages with svg graphs and pull in data from several sources. That's the main reason I need to keep browsers reasonably up-to-date.
If I really want to see what was at a site that's too scripty for me, I'll on occasion take the time to view it through a proxy. Gotta be something I really think I should see though.

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You can't see traffic from the router to the net on your computer, unless WireShark would be running on the router. That won't work with your average SOHO router, I think. But it's an interesting idea. I might explore that if I don't forget due to lack of time
I hadn't thought about it from that perspective. Router to internet traffic isn't on the LAN, if no device on the LAN is involved is how it works then?
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:20 AM   #49
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If I really want to see what was at a site that's too scripty for me, I'll on occasion take the time to view it through a proxy. Gotta be something I really think I should see though.
These pages don't work with proxies. And I access them over a VPN, so it's not a problem since I can trust them as if they were on the local network.

I spose I could configure a browser to allow scripting only for those pages. But that would still break other things I need or like to use, like gmail fi.

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I hadn't thought about it from that perspective. Router to internet traffic isn't on the LAN, if no device on the LAN is involved is how it works then?
Run Wireshark on the router itself. Set WAN port to promiscuous mode and record all traffic. Hard to do on a limited box. So you'd need to set up a computer for routing duties.

But, as I said before, I've learned not to worry and love the bomb
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:39 AM   #50
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These pages don't work with proxies. And I access them over a VPN, so it's not a problem since I can trust them as if they were on the local network.

I spose I could configure a browser to allow scripting only for those pages. But that would still break other things I need or like to use, like gmail fi.
I just use NoScript and then DO allow the sites I trust to run scripts, like Cockos.com for instance is whitelisted, but if someone posts a link here, and I click it, it will be blocked by default for all scripting.

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Run Wireshark on the router itself. Set WAN port to promiscuous mode and record all traffic. Hard to do on a limited box. So you'd need to set up a computer for routing duties.

But, as I said before, I've learned not to worry and love the bomb
Hmmm, I do have yet another junker computer in the closet . . .

Nah, that's getting more involved than I want to get for now, but who knows some day I might think otherwise.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:50 AM   #51
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FWIW, personally I run openssh on my lan, and use sshfs to mount things. I also run firewalls on all machines, and treat it like it was wide open to the net

The only open inbound port on the lan is for openvpn, so that when I use my laptop I'm on the lan too.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:05 AM   #52
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FWIW, personally I run openssh on my lan, and use sshfs to mount things. I also run firewalls on all machines, and treat it like it was wide open to the net

The only open inbound port on the lan is for openvpn, so that when I use my laptop I'm on the lan too.
Would you run firewalls if you didn't have any open ports? Which firewall do you use, or are there even multiple choices in that department? There are two machines, and two hardware devices on my network the have web page configuration screens, but I have no ports open on my router, have UPnP disabled, no FTP/SSH or any other similar types of servers running.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:15 AM   #53
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Yes I would I don't control my router (a fritz!box), so I can't really trust it. I use iptables, but there are other firewall solutions around.

I might lose some performance by using ssh and sshfs but it works great, and even though I wouldn't expect to last 5 minutes against a state actor, I can hopefully hold my own against the net scum.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:40 AM   #54
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Yes I would I don't control my router (a fritz!box), so I can't really trust it. I use iptables, but there are other firewall solutions around.

I might lose some performance by using ssh and sshfs but it works great, and even though I wouldn't expect to last 5 minutes against a state actor, I can hopefully hold my own against the net scum.
So you are using a computer then as your router? Hehe, I hope no state actors ever wanna check you out!
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:53 AM   #55
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No, it's a router provided by the telcom. I suppose I could hack it, but it seems easier just to run a firewall on the systems.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:03 PM   #56
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No, it's a router provided by the telcom. I suppose I could hack it, but it seems easier just to run a firewall on the systems.
Ahh, I see. I have a plain jane ethernet/cable port only modem that I got free when I signed up for cable internet, and then use a separate router that I bought after it. My cable company keeps bugging me to take a free upgrade modem from them, but I know there is some angle they are working. Probably changes the terms of my service or imposes other things that aren't as good as what I have now.

They claim I'll get a big speed boost, but it's been working perfectly for 20 years and I'm getting 3625 KB/sec transfer, which is quick enough for me.
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