Old 01-20-2006, 03:18 PM   #1
Justin
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Default A question

...I'm about done implementing multiple sends per track/bus, and I want to know what people think:

should:

A) the sends just be the PCM data and no MIDI data
B) the sends be both PCM and MIDI (a little more more work)
C) the sends be any combination of PCM and MIDI, at the user's discretion (much much more work).

Thoughts?

I'm leaning towards A.
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Old 01-20-2006, 03:32 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
...I'm about done implementing multiple sends per track/bus, and I want to know what people think:

should:

A) the sends just be the PCM data and no MIDI data
B) the sends be both PCM and MIDI (a little more more work)
C) the sends be any combination of PCM and MIDI, at the user's discretion (much much more work).

Thoughts?

I'm leaning towards A.
A, at least till A works so perfectly that we all get grammies
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Old 01-20-2006, 03:58 PM   #3
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A.

MIDI and PCM should be separate.
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
A, at least till A works so perfectly that we all get grammies
Haha. If you guys want to test a version that supports this before I put it up on the web site, to make sure it's not too horribly broken, let me know. it seems to work on my end, but seeing how it took me a few days of planning and then 3 hours of coding to make it happen, I fear I may have overlooked something major...
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Old 01-20-2006, 04:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Haha. If you guys want to test a version that supports this before I put it up on the web site, to make sure it's not too horribly broken, let me know. it seems to work on my end, but seeing how it took me a few days of planning and then 3 hours of coding to make it happen, I fear I may have overlooked something major...
Be glad to, and just happen to be starting some new mixes so, perfect!
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Old 01-20-2006, 07:00 PM   #6
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A. Ten characters.
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Old 01-21-2006, 02:11 PM   #7
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Here it is, hope it works as expected for everybody

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download.php

v0.46

-Justin
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Old 01-21-2006, 03:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Here it is, hope it works as expected for everybody

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download.php

v0.46

-Justin
Now this is a very WEIRD way of doing it, but hey, Ill try and mess with it 10,000 ways to sunday and see how it goes...could be the greatest thing since ASIO DM!

you have an interesting and fresh way of looking at this stuff Justin, awesome!
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Old 01-21-2006, 04:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Here it is, hope it works as expected for everybody
Hi Justin,

The auxiliary sends work as expected, but the auxiliary receives are a bit different (to what I'm used to). I noticed that no signal gets through if the pan on the receive channel doesn't match the pan on the source channel. Would you mind posting a routing diagram?

Where in the new system does the FX patch in? Before the aux track, or after?

Both the sends and receives are post-fader. It would be good to eventually have the aux sends as pre-fader, or have some aux send level controls on the source channel.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
Hi Justin,

The auxiliary sends work as expected, but the auxiliary receives are a bit different (to what I'm used to). I noticed that no signal gets through if the pan on the receive channel doesn't match the pan on the source channel. Would you mind posting a routing diagram?

Where in the new system does the FX patch in? Before the aux track, or after?

Both the sends and receives are post-fader. It would be good to eventually have the aux sends as pre-fader, or have some aux send level controls on the source channel.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
The aux sends are simply the post-FX, post fader, post envelope output, and they are inserted pre-FX, pre fader, pre envelopes, etc on the destination track.

If you wish to have adjustments for volume/pan/etc, you can always route a track to multiple other tracks that apply the volume/pan/envelopes/fx/etc, and route their outputs to wherever you choose, too.. as many times as you like.

That make sense?

Also, re: pans, basically if you pan something all the way to the left, its right channel is silent, and then if you send that somewhere that is panned to the right, only the right channel comes through.

-Justin
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:27 PM   #11
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BTW, if you got 0.46 before now, grab it again, included some updates and I'm too lazy to increment the version number (the whatsnew.txt included references the extra changes, in case you're not sure what version you have).

-Justin
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
The aux sends are simply the post-FX, post fader, post envelope output, and they are inserted pre-FX, pre fader, pre envelopes, etc on the destination track.

If you wish to have adjustments for volume/pan/etc, you can always route a track to multiple other tracks that apply the volume/pan/envelopes/fx/etc, and route their outputs to wherever you choose, too.. as many times as you like.

That make sense?
Hi Justin,

After playing around with 0.46 for a while I finally got my head around your way of thinking about aux sends

The thing that threw me from thinking of them as aux sends was the fact that each new track you create is sent to the Master by default. On a traditional console an aux send goes to the corresponding auxiliary bus, and the return from the auxiliary has to then be routed to an output. Once I turned off "Master Send" on the tracks I wanted to use as auxiliary sends things started to be clearer.

I'd still like the option of being able to have aux sends as pre-fader if possible.

The routing system you've come up with is very, very flexible, but it will take a while for people coming from traditional console backgrounds to get their head around it.

BTW, do you plan on adding a visual representation of automation to the faders?

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 01-22-2006, 01:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
Hi Justin,

After playing around with 0.46 for a while I finally got my head around your way of thinking about aux sends

The thing that threw me from thinking of them as aux sends was the fact that each new track you create is sent to the Master by default. On a traditional console an aux send goes to the corresponding auxiliary bus, and the return from the auxiliary has to then be routed to an output. Once I turned off "Master Send" on the tracks I wanted to use as auxiliary sends things started to be clearer.

I'd still like the option of being able to have aux sends as pre-fader if possible.

The routing system you've come up with is very, very flexible, but it will take a while for people coming from traditional console backgrounds to get their head around it.

BTW, do you plan on adding a visual representation of automation to the faders?

Cheers,

Malcolm.
So you'd like a pre-fader aux send, if I'm going to do that should I do a pre-FX, pre-fader send as well?

I'm not sure I understand your "visual representation of automation to the faders"? You mean an envelope that you can see on the track (which is there)? Or moving the faders along that envelope (which is there, if you use the automationlay/record modes)...

As far as making people from traditional consoles happy, perhaps when you select an aux send the first time, it should disable the master send? Or perhaps I should call it something different than an aux send...

-Justin
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
So you'd like a pre-fader aux send, if I'm going to do that should I do a pre-FX, pre-fader send as well?
I'd like the pre-fader aux send to be post-FX, if possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I'm not sure I understand your "visual representation of automation to the faders"? You mean an envelope that you can see on the track (which is there)? Or moving the faders along that envelope (which is there, if you use the automationlay/record modes)...
Yeah. Never mind. Operator error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
As far as making people from traditional consoles happy, perhaps when you select an aux send the first time, it should disable the master send? Or perhaps I should call it something different than an aux send...
I like the way "add new track" works at the moment so I don't think it needs to be made as a dedicated aux, but it would be good if it wasn't assigned to any output by default, or alternatively that there was a preference option to disable "assign to Master by default".

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:53 PM   #15
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malcomj Im liking the fact that there is no dedicated aux, and that any channle can be anything as well
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