Sound Engineering for newbs

[derik999]

Can you guys recommend any good resources for a beginner that wants to start learning more about audio/sound engineering?

I know it's a very complex concept but knowing where to start is invaluable.

[metal_priest]

well, it all depends how deep you want to go...and on which "field" you want to go into...
sound engineering is a really wide field.

Anyway, if you want to start from the basics you need to read some books about acoustics/psychoacoustic, a little bit of electroacoustics and the basics of digital audio.
You should start from what a sound is, what are its properties, how the sounds interact with the environments, how you hear the sounds, how microphones and speakers works and finally how digital audio works.

Then I will study how the signal processing works, both in analog and digital domain, how a mixer works and what you actually can do with both analog ang digital routing (that's not an easy question this one...)

I know, I'm not giving you any resources as a book or a website because you can find those things in a lot of places...my point is, as I said, that you can study those kind of things for your whole life, so it all depends by your needs...you should focus on what you really need to know and the plan your studies around it

[Refillable]

Originally Posted by derik999

Can you guys recommend any good resources for a beginner that wants to start learning more about audio/sound engineering?

I know it's a very complex concept but knowing where to start is invaluable.

I don't have any good resources (except for google), but keep in mind that there's two things to consider:

Recording: mics, mic placement, audio interface, input impedance (XLR input, Line in, Hi-z input etc). All the practical stuff to get a good signal.

Mixing: All DAWs are more or less designed like an old school analog mixing desk, only more flexible. Any decent hardware mixer have group sends, aux send/return etc. The same thing with your DAW.

I think the best way is learning by doing. Start somewhere and learn as you go.

[viscofisy]

Mike Senior's book Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio is arguably as good a place as any to start.

He has also made available a lot of great resources for students (including downloadable multi track mixes, "Mix Rescues", and links to his Sound On Sound articles) at :

http://www.cambridge-mt.com/MikeSenior.htm


(Mike has been known to use Reaper - his Sound on Sound articles are what originally alerted me to Reaper - and he (very) occasionally posts here afaik)

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by derik999

Can you guys recommend any good resources for a beginner that wants to start learning more about audio/sound engineering?

I know it's a very complex concept but knowing where to start is invaluable.

Live or studio?

[derik999]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Live or studio?

Studio. I just want to get more familiar with how songs are produced/mixed/engineered since I plan on using Reaper and some virtual instruments to make music.

[bladerunner]

Originally Posted by derik999

Studio. I just want to get more familiar with how songs are produced/mixed/engineered since I plan on using Reaper and some virtual instruments to make music.

The most important thing is just to MAKE music first - don't get bogged down in production/mixing/engineering before you even make your first tracks. Make lots of music and figure out how YOU want it to sound. Much of this is down to your sound choices. Then, start your journey into the engineering side. The main thing is to have fun - if you get too into the technical side too soon the fun can be sucked out of it.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

The most important thing is just to MAKE music first - don't get bogged down in production/mixing/engineering before you even make your first tracks. Make lots of music and figure out how YOU want it to sound. Much of this is down to your sound choices. Then, start your journey into the engineering side. The main thing is to have fun - if you get too into the technical side too soon the fun can be sucked out of it.

Without a doubt. I've got material written and am getting everything setup to record. I'd just like to figure out how to get the right guitar and drum tone for both my recording and practicing.

[bladerunner]

Originally Posted by derik999

Without a doubt. I've got material written and am getting everything setup to record. I'd just like to figure out how to get the right guitar and drum tone for both my recording and practicing.

I know this might sound a tad too much on the philosophical side but.. it's all about the sound YOU want to hear rather than the 'right' sound. If it's the case that you want a specific sound and you're having trouble achieving it then be more specific and folks might be able to point you in the right direction.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

I know this might sound a tad too much on the philosophical side but.. it's all about the sound YOU want to hear rather than the 'right' sound. If it's the case that you want a specific sound and you're having trouble achieving it then be more specific and folks might be able to point you in the right direction.

Yeah that's what I mean. I'm not all that into tone-chasing a particular musician but there are certain tones I tend to like more than others.

[Judders]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't read books, but they will only give you ideas to try out. It is the endless experimentation that leads to getting the results you want. You will never get it right first time, or even the first 50 times! Don't worry about failing.

One thing I would say is that, if you are happy with the music, then make sure you have versions of your songs saved before you do any mixing, that way if you want to come back to it with greater knowledge at a later date you won't have to reverse-engineer your project.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by derik999

Studio. I just want to get more familiar with how songs are produced/mixed/engineered since I plan on using Reaper and some virtual instruments to make music.

Here's a lot of material form newbie to advanced:
http://therecordingrevolution.com/
https://www.producelikeapro.com/

Then there are Reaper-specifics:
http://www.reaper.fm/videos.php

Like bladrunner says, start out, make some noise.
Yet, it's not illegal to educate yourself on the subject first

[Boydbob]

Originally Posted by Judders

One thing I would say is that, if you are happy with the music, then make sure you have versions of your songs saved before you do any mixing, that way if you want to come back to it with greater knowledge at a later date you won't have to reverse-engineer your project.

ABSOLUTELY.
If you use midi and convert it to audio, save a copy of the midi files.
If you use/add effects, save a copy of the original audio files.
If you do any destructive editing, save a copy of the original files.

[Colox]

Start at the beginning, what the engineer was for and his necessity. Engineering was capturing the sound of instruments in such a way that it sounded as much like the captured instrument/voice/band/orchestra sounded IRL. It was called an engineer because a real engineer is basically an electrical engineer with good ear for sound and music.

If there was anything slightly off in the capturing, for example a slight rumble in the bottom, you'd use an "equalizer" to "equalize" the sound, equalize as in making oversized or undersized proportions even. This should be done at instrument/band level or with the microphone first hand. But at a later stage, tools like equalizers were used.
Or if the vocalist sang a really loud strong phrase, the vocals became maybe too loud compared to other instruments at that point (but not otherwise in the song) and then you'd have to lower the fader for the vocalist a little bit right there, and bring it back up after that phrase.

Recording is one part of it, treatment after recording is another part of it.

Today it's simpler for inexperienced people because you can "generate" synthetic instrument parts inside the computer, rather than recording something that is real. Some people even use pre-recorded music - loops - made by someone else. Usually bedroom musicians focus only on mixing but can't record anything with similar quality.

If you got something in your computer, or get some pre-recorded material online (check out mixoff.org for example), then load it in to your program. Listen to it, set the volume faders until things sounds right, use equalizers to tame unwanted qualities in tracks (or enhance wanted qualities), and perhaps add some synthetic room acoustics (reverb) in the blend. Make it sound like you feel that it wants to sound in itself, like it needs to sound.

That's a great start. Use your ears, be happy with what you do, and don't ever blame yourself for 'not sounding better', but rather figure out what is the next step on the ladder for you.
For further development there is always educations in engineering you can enroll in, at schools around you. There's is also lots of well presented learning materials for self studies from companies like Lynda or Groove3.

This is not a race, it's a lifelong marathon. You never 'get there', you just get better, all the time.
Good luck!

[Judders]

This place is great for practice too: http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm

I'm presuming you want metal, and there's quite a lot on there. It is a good idea to try a variety of genres though, I think I learn most when I'm mixing music I don't like.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by Judders

I'm not saying that you shouldn't read books, but they will only give you ideas to try out. It is the endless experimentation that leads to getting the results you want. You will never get it right first time, or even the first 50 times! Don't worry about failing.

Equally, there's nothing wrong with enthusiasm and "endless" experimentation, but you won't learn much unless you have a firm idea of what the terms mean and what the tools do.

That's what books are for. Not just to give you ideas, but also to explain the tools and processes, and why those tools and processes are valuable.

Otherwise "endless experimentation" becomes endless faffing around.
_

I'm not qualified to give advice on mixing as such - I'll leave that to the pros - but I've learned enough skills in other areas to appreciate what's involved in truly learning something as opposed to the banality of "just enjoy yourself".

Presumably the OP is enjoying himself or intending to.

If you're not enjoying yourself while learning a hobby, you should mibby take up a different hobby.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

Equally, there's nothing wrong with enthusiasm and "endless" experimentation, but you won't learn much unless you have a firm idea of what the terms mean and what the tools do.

That's what books are for. Not just to give you ideas, but also to explain the tools and processes, and why those tools and processes are valuable.

Otherwise "endless experimentation" becomes endless faffing around.
_

I'm not qualified to give advice on mixing as such - I'll leave that to the pros - but I've learned enough skills in other areas to appreciate what's involved in truly learning something as opposed to the banality of "just enjoy yourself".

Presumably the OP is enjoying himself or intending to.

If you're not enjoying yourself while learning a hobby, you should mibby take up a different hobby.

Good point well made.

[panicaftermath]

You say you want to learn more about "audio/sound engineering."

What I wonder is how much you are coming to this from the point of view of someone whose main interest is as a musician or a songwriter. If so, then your goal might really be to get your stuff into some kind of presentable form, in which case audio/sound engineering is really "just" a means to that end.

That distinction can be a subtle and highly subjective one, and there is a huge middle ground between the two. But if it seems to apply to you (or even if it doesn't), then you might benefit from reading (or slogging through, might be more like it) this long-running thread here at the Reaper forum. It can help you avoid some of the pitfalls of the multi-hat-wearing solitary home recordist.

Why do your recordings sound like ass?

[pipelineaudio]

I made this for the parents of our bands to be able to run things in the event I was run over by a truck, or had a peg snap off during a flyout to toothpick stall on a six foot

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgojfnrh5a...asics.pdf?dl=0

Might be too basic, but might be just the thing for a good start ( I don't mind and would heartily welcome corrections to this by the pedants around here )

[Bazzbass]

Just jump in !

The first step is to learn to capture the performance as cleanly as possible,with no unwanted noise. Do this right and you won't need to spend time cleaning it up afterwards.
Think of it like cooking a meal, if you season it correctly while cooking it, you won't need salt and pepper shakers on the table.

Kenny G's videos are a pretty good learning tool, start at the first one.

[brainwreck]

Something that I wish I had done in the beginning is gathering tracks from bands that I like the sound of and dissecting them. How loud is everything in comparison to everything else? How is everything panned? How big is the room for the drums? How about the guitars? How much compression is on the drums? Is there some m/s processing being used? Etc. I am positive that not putting some quality time into this stuff (and crappy monitoring) has held me back in mixing...but these days I'm more concerned with songwriting.

Even if you don't dive too deep in the beginning, at least use some reference tracks from recordings that you like to work out general tonalities, levels, and panning.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by panicaftermath

You say you want to learn more about "audio/sound engineering."

What I wonder is how much you are coming to this from the point of view of someone whose main interest is as a musician or a songwriter. If so, then your goal might really be to get your stuff into some kind of presentable form, in which case audio/sound engineering is really "just" a means to that end.

That distinction can be a subtle and highly subjective one, and there is a huge middle ground between the two. But if it seems to apply to you (or even if it doesn't), then you might benefit from reading (or slogging through, might be more like it) this long-running thread here at the Reaper forum. It can help you avoid some of the pitfalls of the multi-hat-wearing solitary home recordist.

Why do your recordings sound like ass?

I appreciate the link! I just want to write and record music and have it sound how I want it to sound.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

Something that I wish I had done in the beginning is gathering tracks from bands that I like the sound of and dissecting them. How loud is everything in comparison to everything else? How is everything panned? How big is the room for the drums? How about the guitars? How much compression is on the drums? Is there some m/s processing being used? Etc. I am positive that not putting some quality time into this stuff (and crappy monitoring) has held me back in mixing...but these days I'm more concerned with songwriting.

Even if you don't dive too deep in the beginning, at least use some reference tracks from recordings that you like to work out general tonalities, levels, and panning.

There certainly are albums that I could look into. Metallica's Black Album being one of them. Though I hear that's a tough nut to crack. But the drums and guitar on that album are just amazing.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by Bazzbass

Just jump in !

The first step is to learn to capture the performance as cleanly as possible,with no unwanted noise. Do this right and you won't need to spend time cleaning it up afterwards.
Think of it like cooking a meal, if you season it correctly while cooking it, you won't need salt and pepper shakers on the table.

Kenny G's videos are a pretty good learning tool, start at the first one.

First things first. Make sure everything is in tune!

[derik999]

Originally Posted by Judders

This place is great for practice too: http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm

I'm presuming you want metal, and there's quite a lot on there. It is a good idea to try a variety of genres though, I think I learn most when I'm mixing music I don't like.

Thanks, I'll check it out! Metal and hard rock for now.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by Colox

Start at the beginning, what the engineer was for and his necessity. Engineering was capturing the sound of instruments in such a way that it sounded as much like the captured instrument/voice/band/orchestra sounded IRL. It was called an engineer because a real engineer is basically an electrical engineer with good ear for sound and music.

If there was anything slightly off in the capturing, for example a slight rumble in the bottom, you'd use an "equalizer" to "equalize" the sound, equalize as in making oversized or undersized proportions even. This should be done at instrument/band level or with the microphone first hand. But at a later stage, tools like equalizers were used.
Or if the vocalist sang a really loud strong phrase, the vocals became maybe too loud compared to other instruments at that point (but not otherwise in the song) and then you'd have to lower the fader for the vocalist a little bit right there, and bring it back up after that phrase.

Recording is one part of it, treatment after recording is another part of it.

Today it's simpler for inexperienced people because you can "generate" synthetic instrument parts inside the computer, rather than recording something that is real. Some people even use pre-recorded music - loops - made by someone else. Usually bedroom musicians focus only on mixing but can't record anything with similar quality.

If you got something in your computer, or get some pre-recorded material online (check out mixoff.org for example), then load it in to your program. Listen to it, set the volume faders until things sounds right, use equalizers to tame unwanted qualities in tracks (or enhance wanted qualities), and perhaps add some synthetic room acoustics (reverb) in the blend. Make it sound like you feel that it wants to sound in itself, like it needs to sound.

That's a great start. Use your ears, be happy with what you do, and don't ever blame yourself for 'not sounding better', but rather figure out what is the next step on the ladder for you.
For further development there is always educations in engineering you can enroll in, at schools around you. There's is also lots of well presented learning materials for self studies from companies like Lynda or Groove3.

This is not a race, it's a lifelong marathon. You never 'get there', you just get better, all the time.
Good luck!

The equalizer and equalization is something I really need to spend some time on. I'm going to be recording into an audio interface and using 100% virtual instruments. Far down the road I might try recording instruments with microphones. Far far down the road.

[slipstick]

Originally Posted by derik999

I'm going to be recording into an audio interface and using 100% virtual instruments. Far down the road I might try recording instruments with microphones. Far far down the road.

That doesn't really compute...if you're using 100% virtual instruments (i.e. synthesisers/samplers etc. inside the computer) what is going into the audio interface ?

Steve

[planetnine]

Originally Posted by derik999

There certainly are albums that I could look into. Metallica's Black Album being one of them. Though I hear that's a tough nut to crack. But the drums and guitar on that album are just amazing.

Great drums and great room, layers and layers of guitars played by very good guitarists!



>

[derik999]

Originally Posted by slipstick

That doesn't really compute...if you're using 100% virtual instruments (i.e. synthesisers/samplers etc. inside the computer) what is going into the audio interface ?

Steve

I didn't word that very well, lol

Well I should say I'm playing guitar and drums that will be plugged into the interface, or in the case of the vdrum kit a midi to usb cable. But I will be using the sounds from the virtual instruments. I have a six string and I just bought a Roland vdrum kit.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by planetnine

Great drums and great room, layers and layers of guitars played by very good guitarists!



>

I love the rhythm guitar tone and just how punchy it is without really any extra noise/fuzz. That and I've always liked Lars's kick and snare tone, though I'm not as enthusiastic about the toms.

I imagine plenty of people have been trying to recreate the tone with one of the guitar amp simulator programs.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by planetnine

Great drums and great room, layers and layers of guitars played by very good guitarists!



>

I never knew they got a session guy in for that album!

[derik999]

Originally Posted by Judders

I never knew they got a session guy in for that album!

So Kirk got the blame for wah abuse when it was someone else??!!

[clepsydrae]

This just came up: https://pae.izotope.com/

I don't know much about it, but it sounds like it might be useful to you.

[derik999]

Originally Posted by clepsydrae

This just came up: https://pae.izotope.com/

I don't know much about it, but it sounds like it might be useful to you.

I'll take a look. Thanks!

[cyrano]

Originally Posted by clepsydrae

This just came up: https://pae.izotope.com/

I don't know much about it, but it sounds like it might be useful to you.

Cute! Thx.

[avantika]

Super, Worked out! thanks for your help