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Old 12-15-2020, 10:28 AM   #81
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MUCH better! Thank you!
No lagging anymore and turning off LLM is pretty much instant.
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Old 12-15-2020, 10:33 AM   #82
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MUCH better! Thank you!
No lagging anymore and turning off LLM is pretty much instant.
Hah, nice. One variable needed to be changed from false to nil.
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:12 AM   #83
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Crazy

I haven't looked at the code, yet, but are you by chance polling the track chunk?
I noticed that with bigger Kontakt instruments (like 2-3 GB) the playback cursor is lagging sometimes.
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:21 AM   #84
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Crazy

I haven't looked at the code, yet, but are you by chance polling the track chunk?
I noticed that with bigger Kontakt instruments (like 2-3 GB) the playback cursor is lagging sometimes.
Yes. In the dev release it reads new PDC mode option values from chunk. I think it is not avalaible through direct methods.
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:24 AM   #85
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Ah, I see. Yeah we've been requesting better methods for retrieving the track chunk in the past, to no avail, unfortunately.

BUT, let me ask you this: are you constantly retrieving the track chunk, even when the track hasn't changed? Maybe there could be room for optimization.
You could retrieve the track chunk only when the undo history says "Change track selection". Just a thought!
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:28 AM   #86
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Crazy

I haven't looked at the code, yet, but are you by chance polling the track chunk?
I noticed that with bigger Kontakt instruments (like 2-3 GB) the playback cursor is lagging sometimes.
If you are using dev version, and not manually changing PDC modes for FX Chains, then all your FX Chains should by default be in the new chain based PDC mode.

If you want to get rid of reading the chunks, and you won't be changing PDC modes, then you can modify the function called check_classic_pdc to directly return a false value, e.g
Code:
local function check_classic_pdc(tr)
  return false
  if version < 7 then return true end
...
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Old 12-15-2020, 11:30 AM   #87
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Ah, I see. Yeah we've been requesting better methods for retrieving the track chunk in the past, to no avail, unfortunately.

BUT, let me ask you this: are you constantly retrieving the track chunk, even when the track hasn't changed? Maybe there could be room for optimization.
You could retrieve the track chunk only when the undo history says "Change track selection". Just a thought!
Not constantly. On every state change count it does so for tracks which are part of monitored signal chains.

EDIT: In the dev version.
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Old 12-16-2020, 02:16 PM   #88
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Nice script! Thank you!



Haha!
Thank you! Your works ja posts have been great inspiration and valuable resource of information!

Last edited by en5ca; 12-16-2020 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 12-16-2020, 05:03 PM   #89
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New feature testing

Built-in low latency PDC manager.

Requires recent dev version.

Disables Reaper PDC for monitored signal chain.

Maintains sync by using JS: Time Adjustment plugins. Kind of like it PDC done 'manually' with pen and paper.

Rolls back changes etc, once turned off.

In the .gif, block size is 1024. With my interface, this results in IO latency of around 2*1024 / 44100 ~= 48 ms. Each of the nested layer ReaComps is set to produce 1 ms of latency. Instead of getting 48 ms + 3 * 1024 ~= 120 ms with FX Chain based or TrackFX based PDC, the result is now 51 ms, which is the sum of driver and 'native' plugin latency.

Under realistic conditions, latency improvement is around 30-40%, or vice versa, more plugins can be left non-bypassed.

Works in tandem with the basic operation of script (disabling/offlining plugins).

Requires Include master to be set. Master can be safe tagged.

Can (or should) handle nested routings, split chains etc. Doesn't handle parallel channels very well, if parallel and original are directly summed back together; time aligning plugin should be inserted as post send/fader, which I think isn't currently possible. Could be handled by inserting a dummy parent track for time aligning, or switching send to Pre-FX, but I don't think these are viable options.

Who knows, could cause terrible horror and misery for project file due to possible programming errors. Backup your project before testing.
Attached Files
File Type: lua ak5k_Low Latency Monitoring testing.lua (40.8 KB, 234 views)
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Old 12-16-2020, 05:55 PM   #90
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If you are using dev version, and not manually changing PDC modes for FX Chains, then all your FX Chains should by default be in the new chain based PDC mode.
Awesome, changed the script and it's now even snappier, thanks!
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Old 12-16-2020, 06:12 PM   #91
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Awesome, changed the script and it's now even snappier, thanks!
Good to hear. Probably changing that as a default when running on dev version, as it seems they're not rolling the new PDC stuff out on next main stream release. Keeping fingers crossed this could be queried and set via MediaTrackInfo_Value or something in future.
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:33 PM   #92
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Unreal you guys, this deserves so much more attention from the community.
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Old 12-16-2020, 07:39 PM   #93
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Good to hear. Probably changing that as a default when running on dev version, as it seems they're not rolling the new PDC stuff out on next main stream release. Keeping fingers crossed this could be queried and set via MediaTrackInfo_Value or something in future.
Yeah, I think the same and also hoping for a query via MediaTrackInfo.
Was there an explanation/forum link somewhere how the new PDC method in REAPER works?


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Unreal you guys, this deserves so much more attention from the community.
Totally THIS!
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:10 PM   #94
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in the disables PDC thing you would have to use a direct monitoring thing though, right?
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Old 12-17-2020, 12:24 AM   #95
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Unreal you guys, this deserves so much more attention from the community.
Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Yeah, I think the same and also hoping for a query via MediaTrackInfo.
Was there an explanation/forum link somewhere how the new PDC method in REAPER works?




Totally THIS!
Don't know if there's any documentation. I measured it with interface DSP mixer loopbacks. In FX Chain mode, nesting multiple tracks with small latency plugins will still cascade into block rounded numbers of latency per 'level', like previously. Putting multiple FX into one channel doesn't; new FX Chain based mode 'allocates' smallest possible, still rounded to block size, 'heap' of buffer, which fits all FX Chain plugins. So it is an improvement.

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in the disables PDC thing you would have to use a direct monitoring thing though, right?
No. It's a software monitoring thingy. Yes. It can provide lower latency than 'automatic PDC', classic or FX Chain based. Yes. It has some caveats. Yes. Still works for most cases.

The .gif is just shown with great limit value so that normal operation doesn't immediately disable the plugins.
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Old 12-17-2020, 05:23 AM   #96
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Here is a slightly better .gif showing PDC manager action.

Limit is set to 10 ms.

Audio device latency is 4.5 ms.

Parent tracks 1 and 2 have 2 ms latency each, artificially induced by ReaComp Pre-comp values.

Monitored input tracks are track 3 and 4.

Track 4 is kept in sync with "JS: time_adjustement" plugin.

Initially, the 178 spls delay on time_adjustment is to compensate for the total 4 ms of latency, which originates from Track 1 and Track 2 ReaComps.

As I increase the latency (ReaComp Pre-comp) on Track 3, eventually the last ReaComp in the chain gets bypassed, once the total limit of 10 ms is exceeded, to keep total latency under the limit. Also, "JS: time_adjustment" plugin on Track 4 is kept in sync to match the changing latencies.

So, watch closely the total LLM sum, plugin bypass states on Mixer, and the "Additional Delay Amount (spls)" field on "JS: time_adjustment" plugin.

Once I go very high with the Track 3 Pre-comp, the script analysis bypasses the Track 3 ReaComp, and re-enables the Track 1 and 2 ReaComps; the total latency will stay under the limit. We end up in the 'starting point': Track 1 and Track 2 ReaComps are each inducing 2 ms of latency, and Track 3 is again inducing none, because now it is disabled.

BTW, the 'brain' in normal main stream release 'non-testing-non-PDC-managed' version works in this way also, but in the 'framework' of block size rounded latencies, and Reaper is doing the automatic PDC.

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Old 12-17-2020, 11:34 AM   #97
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Here is another example of further development of the testing version. Haven't yet uploaded this.

Limit is set to 5 ms, audio device is around 4.5 ms, Master track is not included, and PDC manager is on.

LLM result window no longer shows Master track induced latency, if Master track is not included.

Master track (on purpose) has around 200 ms worth of latency.

Once script is enabled and inputs are armed, the script disables plugins and sets time adjusting delay plugins in their places.

Tracks have no real physical inputs in the example. Instead, click sources are monitored through them.

In the resulting situation, only plugin left to induce latency in the 'musicians' monitored signal chain, is Amplitube, which is bringing around 0.1 ms latency. This is also reflected in the LLM window.

Hypothetical musicians would hear themselves, and each other, through the hardware sends in sync, at around 4.6 ms latency.

Control room, listening to Master track, will hear the performance through Master track FX processsing (Master track isn't included in the script settings), with additonal latency, without affecting the latency on hardware monitoring sends done inside Reaper.

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Old 12-17-2020, 06:28 PM   #98
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you are a literal fucking psycho.

thank you!!!
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Old 12-17-2020, 06:30 PM   #99
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you are a literal fucking psycho.

thank you!!!
Thank you. Just uploaded this version as opening post attachment. Currently PDC manager only works with recent dev version of Reaper.
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Old 12-18-2020, 09:01 AM   #100
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en5ca can you tweak the script so that you hear your monitored signal before you play it? Because at this rate, it should be your next goal.

Put that AI hat on lol.
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Old 12-18-2020, 09:07 AM   #101
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en5ca can you tweak the script so that you hear your monitored signal before you play it? Because at this rate, it should be your next goal.

Put that AI hat on lol.
Sorry, I don't think that is currently possible with current native ReaScript API functions. Perhaps, in the next Reaper release, this could be possible through some extra-dimensional time dilating quantum computing.

I'm currently working on an option to change buffer size to very low automatically, once script is enabled, and restoring it back to normal, when script is turned off. Could be very useful. Unfortunately, on Windows platform, not all drivers will support this. But, for example, I can get this to work with RME audio interface by using ASIO4ALL as a 'wrapper' for RME drivers.
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Old 12-18-2020, 09:55 AM   #102
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Sorry, I don't think that is currently possible with current native ReaScript API functions. Perhaps, in the next Reaper release, this could be possible through some extra-dimensional time dilating quantum computing.

I'm currently working on an option to change buffer size to very low automatically, once script is enabled, and restoring it back to normal, when script is turned off. Could be very useful. Unfortunately, on Windows platform, not all drivers will support this. But, for example, I can get this to work with RME audio interface by using ASIO4ALL as a 'wrapper' for RME drivers.
yeah I have a feeling my FF800 would not react to this well. haha
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Old 12-18-2020, 07:54 PM   #103
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Sorry. I don't think I'm able to get the script to change buffer size.

Instead, I improved the PDC manager when working with hardware sends within the monitored signal chain.

Now it should be able to better maintain sync between different depth of 'layers' and their latencies. It treats all hardware output sends within the monitored signal chain as monitor sends, and prioritizes to maintain sync between them, and then syncs 'the rest' of tracks from the monitored signal chain to hardware sent tracks. It won't be able to sync parent and it's children tracks, if both parent and children are sent to hardware outputs. E.g. send individual drums or the drum group, not both.

Also, it responds to changes in routings on the fly.

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Old 12-31-2020, 11:25 AM   #104
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how can I make the user settings stick without the window opening every time?
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Old 12-31-2020, 11:29 AM   #105
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how can I make the user settings stick without the window opening every time?
Edit the script file. Near the top, set "user_settings = false", and then set your preferred settings in variables listed below.
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Old 12-31-2020, 11:33 AM   #106
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Edit the script file. Near the top, set "user_settings = false", and then set your preferred settings in variables listed below.
nice dude! love the update.
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Old 01-23-2021, 10:44 AM   #107
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this has been helping me a ton, but I didn't realize what all these time alignment plugins were -

I am still not sure exactly what is happening here -

Is there an idiot's guide to this somewhere?
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:48 AM   #108
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this has been helping me a ton, but I didn't realize what all these time alignment plugins were -

I am still not sure exactly what is happening here -

Is there an idiot's guide to this somewhere?
PDC manager in the script disables REAPER's PDC for monitored tracks and their signal chains, to achieve lower latencies. If recording monitored signal chains have different latencies, it uses JS: Time Adjustment Delay plugins to synchronise monitored signal chains between each other. Kind of like how it was done before DAWs implemented automatic plugin delay compensation functions. REAPER PDC options seem to have rolled out to latest main stream release, so updated the script to support PDC manager in mainstream REAPER versions 6.21 and later.

You can ignore the time adjustment plugins; they're automatically managed. Or at least should be.

For example, if you're monitoring 2 tracks, with track A having 4 ms latency, and track B having 5 ms, then track A needs to be delayed by 1 ms to be in sync with track B. The time adjustmend plugins are doing this.
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:58 AM   #109
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perhaps this is due to my lack of knowledge with non-automatic PDC.

well, this makes all of the tracks play at the same time even though certain plugins have latency, of course..

so disabling this and putting a time adjustment plugin on, compensates for the plugin delay instead using PDC, and that lowers latency? haha I feel stupid.

Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 01-24-2021 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 01-24-2021, 10:35 AM   #110
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perhaps this is due to my lack of knowledge with non-automatic PDC.

well, this makes all of the tracks play at the same time even though certain plugins have latency, of course..

so disabling this and putting a time adjustment plugin on, compensates for the plugin delay instead using PDC, and that lowers latency? haha I feel stupid.
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yes, because reasons.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:04 AM   #111
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Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yes, because reasons.
hahhhahaha

good enough!
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:55 PM   #112
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couple of weird things

- its not remembering the plugins it's shutting down

- my recordings are off, too late.

Here are the settings:

--Get settings from user:
local user_settings = false

local total_pdc_limit = 8 -- in ms
local enable_safe_tag = true -- or false
local safe_tag = "-LL"
local trackfx_pdc_limit = 6 -- in ms
local include_master = true -- or false
local enable_report = true -- or true
local power_mode = true -- or false
local pdc_manager = false -- or true
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Old 01-24-2021, 01:57 PM   #113
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yeah its toggling a plugin from offline to bypass haha on the master.
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:25 AM   #114
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yeah its toggling a plugin from offline to bypass haha on the master.
Hmm. Not able to reproduce the offline/bypass thing. The script doesn't do anything with recording/item position/timing. I think that depends on how you've set REAPER to handle PDC for recordings.
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:55 AM   #115
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also, I cannot undo it. It must reactivate every time I go to "undo" and I cannot get past it unless I use the undo history.
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:53 AM   #116
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also, I cannot undo it. It must reactivate every time I go to "undo" and I cannot get past it unless I use the undo history.
Yes. That will happen. If you enable the script, and then try to immediately 'undo the script' (if it has disabled/offlined plugins), it will immediately 'redo itself' while being enabled. It isn't a single action 'one shot' type of script, like copy/paste for example. It's more like a 'mode', constantly 'monitoring the situation'. If you want get past the scripts actions with undo, you'll have to disable the script first, or use the undo history.

But for example, if you enable script (and it disables/offlines plugins), and then do a ton of edits and other stuff, you can undo/redo up to the point where you enabled the script. At that point, you'll have to disable the script first, or use the history. Easiest solution is just to disable the script after you've done recording. If the script hasn't disabled/offlined any plugins, then it has no trace in the undo history.
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:56 AM   #117
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Yes. That will happen. If you enable the script, and then try to immediately 'undo the script' (if it has disabled/offlined plugins), it will immediately 'redo itself' while being enabled. It isn't a single action 'one shot' type of script, like copy/paste for example. It's more like a 'mode', constantly 'monitoring the situation'. If you want get past the scripts actions with undo, you'll have to disable the script first, or use the undo history.

But for example, if you enable script (and it disables/offlines plugins), and then do a ton of edits and other stuff, you can undo/redo up to the point where you enabled the script. At that point, you'll have to disable the script first, or use the history. Easiest solution is just to disable the script after you've done recording. If the script hasn't disabled/offlined any plugins, then it has no trace in the undo history.
that makes perfect sense
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:20 PM   #118
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that makes perfect sense
The script is basically just a-bunch-of-super-fast-automated-ordinary-user-actions-based-on-some-rules-and-conditions. I don't know if it's possible for the script to have it's own discrete history of actions.
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Old 01-25-2021, 12:24 PM   #119
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The script is basically just a-bunch-of-super-fast-automated-ordinary-user-actions-based-on-some-rules-and-conditions. I don't know if it's possible for the script to have it's own discrete history of actions.
no worries, im just trying to present everything I can to you in the case that it improves something !
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:36 AM   #120
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no worries, im just trying to present everything I can to you in the case that it improves something !
Ok, greatly appreciated. I think the 'long answer' to PDC is covered in one of more recent The REAPER Blog YouTube channel videos, if you're interested in that. If you're having trouble with the script not remembering plugins etc, I'd recommend trying to reproduce the problem in a blank project and trying to figure out where 'things go wrong'. Tried some things, but wasn't able to reproduce the problem.
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