I see the need to actually sell something, but, would you make vinyls?
I keep the project files just in case someone wants the unmastered mixes to "master them for vinyl".
Never happened.
I like the sound of digital better, so for me it's a no brainer. I pretend they don't exist lol
Short answer: no, it's not worth it
Vinyl is one of the oldest tech. to record and replay music.
Even with todays precise instrument and modern production technologies, vinyl still has its inherited limitations by physics.
1. Friction
2. Inertia
3. Surface of medium (exposure, cleaning, damage risk)
4. Not environment friendly (all that plastic)
5. Cost
I got some co-workers that would swear vinyl is the best. They just do not understand and live in the "analogue warmth" illusion.
On the other hand mastering for vinyl should be adopted for mastering anything. Mastering levels by loudness should not exceed -15dBfs at the loudest section of modern music. For classical can go a bit above to -12dBfs at some crescendo short sections.
Mastering levels by loudness should not exceed -15dBfs at the loudest section of modern music. For classical can go a bit above to -12dBfs at some crescendo short sections.
I master to make the music sound good. If that's louder than -14 LUFS or whatever, so be it.
Digital platforms will take care of themselves.
Don't sweat it. Some music actually sounds better with some limiting,
On the other hand mastering for vinyl should be adopted for mastering anything.
Mastering for vinyl requires special attention because of limitations of the format (length, RIAA curve, stereo low-end causing jumps etc.)
These do not present the same challenges when mastering for digital reproduction, so i dunno why you say that?
As a listener I don't see the point of vinyl if the composition is rendered on a computer. Vinyl makes sense if the production is an analogue process. When vinyl was current it the music was pressed from an analogue medium off a master tape. Without working off tape I tend to think it looses it's meaning. And that warmth you hear about, no pun intended.
It's almost like taking a CD and recording it to tape if someone likes the pure analogue sound. The point is lost in the process. Though I've read that changing speed is better with an analogue player than digital resampling.
A few years back I found vinyl made a come back with an Eminem album. To me this was the most pointless comeback ever. What young person is going to listen to rap on a record player? What young person, keeping in mind the target audience being about mid 30's at most, would even have a record player? How would it play in the car? It's rap so why isn't it a 12 inch single with remixes on it? Mind you I'm now showing my age but that was my impression. Since young today likely wouldn't care about remixes and all that extra stuff.
Again, I say this as a listener to music, not as any kind of musician. I think what is important is the target market. And if the extra effort of pressing to vinyl would have more substance than simply being a bonus novelty.
As a listener I don't see the point of vinyl if the composition is rendered on a computer. Vinyl makes sense if the production is an analogue process. When vinyl was current it the music was pressed from an analogue medium off a master tape. Without working off tape I tend to think it looses it's meaning. And that warmth you hear about, no pun intended.
It's almost like taking a CD and recording it to tape if someone likes the pure analogue sound. The point is lost in the process. Though I've read that changing speed is better with an analogue player than digital resampling.
A few years back I found vinyl made a come back with an Eminem album. To me this was the most pointless comeback ever. What young person is going to listen to rap on a record player? What young person, keeping in mind the target audience being about mid 30's at most, would even have a record player? How would it play in the car? It's rap so why isn't it a 12 inch single with remixes on it? Mind you I'm now showing my age but that was my impression. Since young today likely wouldn't care about remixes and all that extra stuff.
Again, I say this as a listener to music, not as any kind of musician. I think what is important is the target market. And if the extra effort of pressing to vinyl would have more substance than simply being a bonus novelty.
Yes, and how many bands are going to make an all analog album? Start with the will to not edit the s#$% out of things lol
Mastering for vinyl requires special attention because of limitations of the format (length, RIAA curve, stereo low-end causing jumps etc.)
These do not present the same challenges when mastering for digital reproduction, so I dunno why you say that?
Mainly because of Loudness, of course.
Loudness should be dependant on the source:
· the more acoustic it is, the less restricted
· the more compressored, distorted, synthesized, the more restrictive
· and something in-between
People from the early vinyl era recorded mostly acoustic instruments, jazzy, classical, folk with simple mix setups.
Somewhat loud was a big band or crescendo of a full orchestra and not all the time.
Todays pop, EDM and rock music is loud most of the time.
Vinyl and even tape give us some perspective on how Physics (or let's call it Natural laws) makes a general guide or range with regards to Music and its preservation as audio as well.
If you calibrate your 'modern digital system' to a reference of 0dBfs ≈ 100dB SPL, then maybe -15dBfs should be roughly 75dB SPL (loud enough). Or -12dBfs ≈ 85dB SPL.
Vinyl is not good with low freqs. + high volume\amplitude.
It distorts the highs (ok, maybe that is the "warmth" of vinyl), especially for modern music.
And especially terrible with modern FX in Music and sound design for some music styles (let's exclude games and cinema; no one would be synching those sounds on vinyl!).
Masters really should have a loudness volume VU or average RMS at about -15dBfs on loudest parts (chorus) .
Anything louder than that should be achieved with the volume knob at the end of the hardware device or monitors signal path.
But really this is the only thing vinyl\tape can be referred to as heritage. The other physical problems just make it out of touch with modern sounds in Music.
Yes, and how many bands are going to make an all analog album? Start with the will to not edit the s#$% out of things lol
:-)
Not many these days. Unless they purposely use old production techniques. Even older bands that grew up with analogue recording would likely use modern digital techniques these days if they are still producing music.
for an outdated technology to sell for $70AU + per album is crazy.
That's true. Average CD album was $30 AUD. But, now I see they are trying to backport vinyl and replace CD with it. Which is a bit backwards. CD has no direct replacement and the internet helped put a stop to that.
My dad grew up with vinyl and I grew up with vinyl until CD's took over in the 90's. My dad thought it was great to be able to go direct to a track. And he could take his music outside to annoy the neighbours with. :-)
Most of the local bands i know personally (psychedlic-rock, stoner, rock, punk, indie) in my city release on vinyl only (besides stream and Bandcamp). They seem to sell at least a good pile of them. Their age range is around 25 - 50. Some of them are with lables involved, some are diy. I assume it's mainly out of the urge to have something physically to sell on shows etc. . Prices range between 15 - 25 €. Just observing, here in Germany.
And I guess most of them have been recorded digital.
Masters really should have a loudness volume VU or average RMS at about -15dBfs on loudest parts (chorus).
This doesn't matter. I cut vinyl masters from stupidly-loud, brickwall-limited source all the time.
The cutting engineer will make level, EQ, or anything other adjustments necessary to get the best-sounding cut. I don't care what level your source comes in at, I'm going to adjust it anyway.
Vinyl is a placebo for people who think Music gets produced "like the good old days".
The sad truth is it does not. Yes, maybe most big names have studios with expensive outboard analogue gear still... but most likely they convert sessions to digital for convenience and backup\restore purposes.
The only good thing about vinyl is that it tends the mastering engineers to be more conservatives with levels and loudness (and that is good).
Other than that, nostalgia and "physical experience" is for the die-hard hipsters.
Two of the Directors in the company I used to work have "vinyl setups" for thousands of quid. But they rarely have time to "get into the experience".
I wish the tech. to have moved to more bits per dB (≈3 bits per dB, means about 40-bit audio interfaces) and 96kHz sample-rate by default.
I still can not understand how we can have mid GPUs of about $300US and high end GPUs at about $600US, yet some mediocre audio interfaces in those ranges with barely any DSP built-in (if you are lucky).
Compare that to: Universal Audio VOLT 476
Wow, it's got built-in compressor! I'm Speechless. And more... it comes with some 'lite-version' of plugins, essential version of a daw and Melodyne!
It is USB as well.
What a bargain! Right?!
*maybe it is a market size thing (video games vs audio production), I understand the margin between those two industries is gigantic.
I always thought video is much more data and processing consuming.
But a 5 minute song of such file in stereo will be close to 300MB of data.
For recording\mixing lets say you will have 30 such tracks recorded
300 × 30 = 8.8GB
If some of them are mono... ok, maybe 6GB per song.
Is that a lot, even by modern standards for direct DSP by the APU (audio processing unit)?
Just imagine having an audio card with ADDR6 6GB on PCI-e slot with I\O outboard panel, with a whole mixer DSP and real-time FX for about $300 (as it should be).
I am aware there are such Audio units by Waves, DiGiGrid, Avid, Universal Audio, but they are way above $1000 .
Five years ago Sony started pressing vinyl again in Japan after a thirty year lay off. All the major shops in UK sell vinyl, Sainsbury's, Tesco's, etc. So they think it's worth selling, because some folks buy it.
World Records: The global vinyl economy in four interactive maps
Second hand albums I did, way back when, all analog to tape, sell for about £100-£150 on the net, I saw one on sale for 300 euros. And I found 50 never-played copies in my lockup which have not seen the light of day for over a quarter of a century. I didn't even know they were there.
A good friend of mine is an A-List mastering engineer, he does lots of major older acts' reissues, Abba, The Who, Tori Amos, loads of 'em. He took the 1/2" of my old album to Abbey Road and got it into digital using their very nice tape gear. Sounds great, quality-wise. All for free, as a favour, mind you. So I have a lovely digital version which can be used to press some more vinyl if I want. He advised me to use the digital version rather than the old 1/2" for another vinyl run. If I create one more new album before I vacate the premises I will put it on vinyl because it sells and collectors want it just like anything collectable, stamps, paintings, baseball cards.
So if your product will sell then vinyl is definitely worth thinking about. It's a growing collectable market. If it won't sell then it's probably not.
Most of the local bands i know personally (psychedlic-rock, stoner, rock, punk, indie) in my city release on vinyl only (besides stream and Bandcamp). They seem to sell at least a good pile of them. Their age range is around 25 - 50. Some of them are with lables involved, some are diy. I assume it's mainly out of the urge to have something physically to sell on shows etc. . Prices range between 15 - 25 €. Just observing, here in Germany.
And I guess most of them have been recorded digital.
Yup…having a physical product to sell can net you more revenue than streaming; especially if you’re mostly a smaller local act.
Hell, I’m thinking of making a vinyl EP and I don’t even own a turntable. There’s something about the process of listening to a record that is more satisfying than streaming. The cover art, sleeve, the process of dropping the needle, and the feeling of being more committed to listening to the complete side.
PS: note I said nothing about the sonic of vinyl…which I actually think aren’t great (better than cassette though)
It's like with all commodities. It used to be a relevant format. Now, with digital copies infintely (almost) reproducible for free (almost), it's a fetish at best. Or a con, I'm not sure. I used to like vinyl, but nowadays, it's not really turning me on anymore. It used to be the case that unless you owned the album, made cassette copies, or happened to tune into the right station, you wouldn't be able to hear the recording. You just couldn't do it physically, it was impossible. Now, it's just down to social conventions, law and order, that kind of thing. The magic is lost. On me anyway.
As I understand it, vinyl is making quite a comeback - though I suspect it will be short-lived. Vinyl sales have been breaking records, lately.
I can only assume it is something about the artefact (and there is something lovely about an LP, the cover art, etc.) that is driving the appeal. I doubt it is nostalgia, as most people buying are too young. It's nice to have something to hold and CDs don't cut it any more.
For me, there is something nostalgic about them and I still have a collection in my garage that I've carried from house to house. Maybe it's simply that you could use an LP as a base to roll a joint, unlike any format since! Not that I do that now I'm in my dotage.
Nor would I buy a new vinyl album, but they are selling - at least for now.
Last thing I bought as "old stuff" was a collection of The Boswell Sisters earlier this year. Not on vinyl. It was a 5CD box. Then I ripped them in .flac and now I listen them in Foobar.
What is the source for those remasters, I have no idea.
Tape?
Yes, I have also seen vinyl being displayed and probably sold in shops such as HMV and other here in UK. Finding the proper turntable is crucial. Most are quite shite.
But I recently bought a CD player (portable, discman-walkman).
CDs if not overproduced\over-compressored in mastering are good enough for me. Would have preferred them to be 24b\96kHz but... nevermind.
The business needs the bare minimum in production costs that satisfies.
Same is with vinyl today. A hype that is not even close to offer "higher quality".
I see the need to actually sell something, but, would you make vinyls?
I keep the project files just in case someone wants the unmastered mixes to "master them for vinyl".
Never happened.
I like the sound of digital better, so for me it's a no brainer. I pretend they don't exist lol
First, I have great respect for the vinyl pressings that got close to almost perfect copies of the master recordings. And there would be something wrong if I didn't have a quality calibrated vinyl system in the house!
I've also heard plenty of examples where a vinyl copy was a more accurate copy of a master recording than a digital example. Whoever did the digital examples that fall into this camp should feel very bad and find a different line of work!
I think 24 bit digital is happiness and light! Perfect digital clones of the master and that extends to surround sound. I mean, in theory. Turns out there is more chaos and amateur hour screw ups in the digital world than there ever was in the analog world!
The "vinyl resurgence" I've seen has nothing to do with collecting for the most accurate consumer copy of a master recording. It's kids nostalgic for the sound of their parents malfunctioning turntable and damaged vinyl artifacts. They still consider their mp3s the end all. They want to hear them with clicks and pops as a novelty. Some of them just buy the vinyl to hang on the wall as art. Probably just as well because they'd be pissed if they listened to it when they discovered it was a copy of the mastered for CD version.
So it's not exactly a reasonable audiophile format anymore. The whole "digital is compromised and this is a solution" thing is gaslighting or just no awareness of modern 24 bit digital solutions.
It could very well still be a worthwhile product to sell of course! No one said it had to make sense and no one said the target consumers needed to have any sense talked into them. I think it's pretty easy to argue to dismiss the format for HD digital if the aim is delivering and reproducing audio with no damage.
If we want to discuss something to make an actual impact for a greater number of people, can we talk about the trashy mastering practices in vogue right now? Pulling a random crack head off the street and handing them a brick wall limiter is not how this is done! You might be able to get away with that shit with your Beats and earbud listening audience but the rest of us are shaking our heads and returning things.
Turns out there is more chaos and amateur hour screw ups in the digital world than there ever was in the analog world!
I think 24 bit digital is happiness and light!
Pulling a random crack head off the street and handing them a brick wall limiter is not how this is done! You might be able to get away with that shit with your Beats and earbud listening audience but the rest of us are shaking our heads and returning things.
I see the need to actually sell something, but, would you make vinyls?
If you're making money on downloads & CDs that should give you a clue if it's worth it.
You'd have to sell at-least a few-hundred records (at a rather high price) to cover the costs.
The RIAA has some statistics. Some of it is confusing, but it looks like unit-sales of CDs & vinyl are about equal but vinyl revenue is about twice as much as CDs (which makes sense because they are more expensive).
But of course your costs (including start-up costs) are higher with vinyl so you have to sell more before you break-even.
If you're making money on downloads & CDs that should give you a clue if it's worth it.
You'd have to sell at-least a few-hundred records (at a rather high price) to cover the costs.
The RIAA has some statistics. Some of it is confusing, but it looks like unit-sales of CDs & vinyl are about equal but vinyl revenue is about twice as much as CDs (which makes sense because they are more expensive).
But of course your costs (including start-up costs) are higher with vinyl so you have to sell more before you break-even.
Kinda came to say this. It only seems worth doing if you already have the sales showing people will buy what you put out.
Personally, I've always thought of going the route of limited edition 'packaging' and collectable runs of physical media where each one is different, or some sort of piece of 'art' in and of itself. Focusing on that seems to make more sense to me than the media itself, and this way, a cheap USB stick (or even just a card with a download code) containing an album becomes something way more attractive as a purchase.
I like vinyl , I produce vinyl releases and I also buy new Vinyl. Bob Dylan's latest album is a great on Vinyl by the way
if it's done well through the whole process then Vinyl still sounds very good. It can sound like sh*t as well but that's down to the people involved in the chain.
The experience of listening to music on Vinyl is a different one, just from holding a large format cover of great artwork and being able to read all the proper credits/lyrics easily, perhaps pics of the recording process etc is a good starting point before yo even actually hear a note. You're already invested.
Putting the disk on the turntable and cleaning before dropping the stylus then begins the listening part.
Yo only have 15-20 minutes before you have to stop and either re-listen or flip the record. A whole album is only 30-40 minutes long so good choices have been made all along the process to make sure they're the best tracks. No filler....
So that's what I and perhaps people who buy/listen to vinyl get from the experience. It's a holistic thing.
CD technically/sonically is a better format but that seems to be disappearing faster than the rain forests at the moment so I think vinyl is the last stand of the physical product for artists to sell.
Regarding the sound, I remember sitting in my mastering engineers studio many years ago and we A/B'd the vinyl and CD version of the same album, both level matched exactly and coming through the same signal chain into the large PMC's. I was amazing at how small the difference between the CD and Vinyl was , certainly on the opening track, we were both surprised by this at the time.
so any point in vinyl? if you have a market then hell yes
I can't believe we need those things to appreciate a record.
The big cover art, the smell, the limits, the sitting down watching the needle. lol
We already have superb sound in the form of digital audio.
I don't like the fact that people don't value it.
I hate vinyls because of what they represent. A big failure of digital as something with value.
I hate the hipster thing, and all the pointless effort that goes into making vinyls.
Why can't we contact the artists we like and buy a 24 bit file from them? That'd be fair, wouldn't it?
No, instead we put the artist through a pointless job of making a plastic etched with the audio, so we can spend our money and feel better about it, because we get "a thing".
It sucks very hard, sorry.
I can't believe we need those things to appreciate a record.
The big cover art, the smell, the limits, the sitting down watching the needle. lol
We already have superb sound in the form of digital audio.
I don't like the fact that people don't value it.
I hate vinyls because of what they represent. A big failure of digital as something with value.
I hate the hipster thing, and all the pointless effort that goes into making vinyls.
Why can't we contact the artists we like and buy a 24 bit file from them? That'd be fair, wouldn't it?
No, instead we put the artist through a pointless job of making a plastic etched with the audio, so we can spend our money and feel better about it, because we get "a thing".
It sucks very hard, sorry.
I like having a 'thing' .Same as I do with a book/Magazine. I'm old so it's something I've grown up with. With every Vinyl you usually get a CD or a decent download as well .
I like 24 bit digital files , but you miss out on the artwork which has always been part of the overall product for me.
The other day I was streaming a track and i wanted to know who was playing on it...I spent ages googling and searching until I found out the info really poor as in my day we relied on our credits on records as our calling cards.
It 's very disrespectful to me for everyone who is involved in making the record NOT to be credited and that info to be easily available to the listener in whatever format. there's NO excuse these days it's just laziness.
I like having a 'thing' .Same as I do with a book/Magazine. I'm old so it's something I've grown up with. With every Vinyl you usually get a CD or a decent download as well .
I like 24 bit digital files , but you miss out on the artwork which has always been part of the overall product for me.
The other day I was streaming a track and i wanted to know who was playing on it...I spent ages googling and searching until I found out the info really poor as in my day we relied on our credits on records as our calling cards.
It 's very disrespectful to me for everyone who is involved in making the record NOT to be credited and that info to be easily available to the listener in whatever format. there's NO excuse these days it's just laziness.
M
Not having art work and credits is not a real limitation of digital. We could have them easily.
People making the decisions are to blame, not the format.
People making the decisions are to blame, not the format.
True. Very true.
Some websites such as Bandcamp sometimes offer the whole coverwork and booklet in .pdf (it is rare though). Most of the time is just the artwork at 1500×1500px.
I love buying music from Bandcamp. It is not 24\96 but it does not matter. I think 24\96 would be more appropriate for music before the 80s. Maybe even older, when to be loud was not really a mastering priority and was a physical limitation, especially for vinyl medium.
I grew up with cassettes and CDs. Damn I hated cassettes so much:
· differently calibrated recording heads from various prints
· tape hiss
· deterioration
· god forbid if and when it got stuck and wrinkled around the rubber rolls and pins in the cassette compartment of the boombox
Wish CDs were 24\96 but that was too much back then. The business was good enough with the bare minimum of 16 bits. And music was getting louder, barely having 9dBfs crest or dynamic range.
I can't believe we need those things to appreciate a record.
The big cover art, the smell, the limits, the sitting down watching the needle. lol
We already have superb sound in the form of digital audio.
I don't like the fact that people don't value it.
I hate vinyls because of what they represent. A big failure of digital as something with value.
I hate the hipster thing, and all the pointless effort that goes into making vinyls.
Why can't we contact the artists we like and buy a 24 bit file from them? That'd be fair, wouldn't it?
No, instead we put the artist through a pointless job of making a plastic etched with the audio, so we can spend our money and feel better about it, because we get "a thing".
It sucks very hard, sorry.
Amen!
I miss album covers too. I don't miss being disappointed by the pressing quality 85% of the time!
Vinyl systems (cartridge, tonearm, table, preamp) start at around $5000 if you want to get signal off the things that isn't just mutilated. A boutique DAC will get you in the audiophile club for a few hundred. Those DJ turntables with the $200 cartridges sound like ass. I'm pretty sure those USB turntable products are pure trolling. Novelty items perhaps.
The business of only releasing something to CD format and further with volume war mastering while holding the 24 bit master back to prop up these stopgap vinyl releases. If that's the intention anyway. I don't know what endgame profit someone thinks this leads to but at the end of the day it means people only hear that volume war mastered CD version and never hear your full quality master.
I think the average jo now isn't interested in quality. I used to produce records for Linn records 'Studio Master' downloads. It was a high quality product as Linn are known for this even going back to the vinyl days.
It didn't last very long though and they closed the whole thing after a few years much to my disappointment. Interestingly Linn still make turntables and streamers but stopped making CD player a few years ago.
I put out a 24/96 version of my last solo CD along with pdf artwork and didn't sell a single copy. I sold all 1,000 of the CD's I pressed however.
Another thing that puts off potential buyers is selling multiple tiered formats as separate products. If the customer has to pay extra for a premium version or purchase an album multiple times to get all the tracks or get higher quality formats, you're only going to sell those to die hard fans. Everyone else will buy the cheapest version and that's what ends up going in the most ears. Being greedy going for multiple formats and potential repeat sales leads to most people not ever hearing the full version.
Yup…having a physical product to sell can net you more revenue than streaming; especially if you’re mostly a smaller local act.
We make more from a sale of two physical CDs than we make from an entire year's worth of streaming on 32 streaming platforms. Granted, our genre is Highly Unpopular Music (HUM) but at least it's not Highly Original-Highly Unpopular Music (HO-HUM).
One interesting option that blew my mind when I received one in the mail last week is an LP-sized record jacket and sleeve with a CD mounted in the center of the inside sleeve. That was pure genius, although inconvenient since I got rid of all my LP-sized bookshelves 20 years ago. But you get so much more real estate for artwork, photographs, notes, lyrics, etc....one of the things we lost when we went from vinyl to CD.
The mother of all problems is that people think digital products are worthless.
They can't relate to the maker, unless there's a physical thing to justify the money they pay.
It's like the guy above, sold zero copies of high quality files and sold all 1000 CD's.
It's like people want the plastic thingy, even if they rip it or whatever for actually listening to the music.
This drives me nuts. It should be all about the music. All about those 0s and 1s
People are shooting themselves in the foot, since more of them will be making some sort of digital product in the future.
What will it take to change this stupid mindset?
I think we started with the wrong foot and already decades have passed, and musicians are now fooled into making vinyls to sell something.
Some of them are happy with the situation, but this is a bloddy lie.
Wake up!!! The Earth doesn't need more of your stuff.
The mother of all problems is that people think digital products are worthless.
They can't relate to the maker, unless there's a physical thing to justify the money they pay.
Some of them are happy with the situation, but this is a bloddy lie.
Wake up!!! The Earth doesn't need more of your stuff.
Oh, I thought this thread was more about releasing stuff on vinyl
Sadly, those digital products arent ethically clean either, its still more stuff, resources, power being used. The Earth doesnt need more of that either. The Earth doesnt need more ego tripping art of any kind tho tbh.
As for digital = worthless... Freuds unconscious fears and desires. I'd rather get together with other artists and make the 'packaging' part of the art.
Its a bit confused to think we can make a product to sell, art, and take part in a capitalist version of art/commerce and decry anyone who wants to actually have a physical product. I get it, and I agree the earth cant take more throwaway plastic, but thats where we are, and its all this that enables us to even contemplate selling music while half the world is on its knees trying to find water (exaggeration but, you know...)
The mother of all problems is that people think digital products are worthless...
Google NFT. The upsides are mind-boggling, really.
Quote:
...Wake up!!! The Earth doesn't need more of your stuff.
I've -never- thrown away a record. Sold, given away, lost, had stolen, yes. Not that your statement is incorrect.
Why ask if you should release vinyl if you have serious moral objections? The choice(s) is(are) clear, either there's money on the table, or not, and you pick it up, or not. But if there's money on the table, someone's going to pick it up, as had been noted. As far as archiving your work I just think that's professionalism, and no point in not doing it with storage as cheap as it is.
Google NFT. The upsides are mind-boggling, really.
Yes. I forgot to mention this and had meant to.
Spidey just made Disney another billion. No one leaving the cinema has a physical product, or even any digital ownership.
Its a lot more nuanced than just people not valuing ephemera, and its more complicated than its ever been. I've been considering an NFT album release, not because I think I'll do it, but just to consider the concept and the implications, the cost, the value. I'm siding with a 'no' at the moment, in terms of value, but a 'yes' in terms of sheer experiment. I wont bother until I have something that I would want to sell anyway, and at my current rate of producing work, thats never going to happen
Not the solution I think we need. We need a change in people's mind.
Not to force them to value digital stuff. It's to make them WANT to value digital stuff.
And, unless you're taking about NFTs, digital is cleaner than vinyl. And we have to be able to do art. Of course we ruin the the planet by just existing lol. Just don't make it so bad.
What you say about cimema is not accurate either, it's an experience, that's what people buy, not ownership.
Of course here nobody is going to make this easy for me.
I'm arguing about having too much stuff with...
People who are going to fight for it a lot.
Of course my country contaminates too, but you can't seriously compare it to the central ones. I don't have the same attitud towards things than someone from there, sorry.
This thread is a continuation of the one about killing sacred cows.
I tried to talk about vinyl there, but I thought that it deserved it's own thread.
Vinyl: is it worth it?
really poor as in my day we relied on our credits on records as our calling cards. 
The upsides are mind-boggling, really.
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