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Old 09-28-2018, 04:12 PM   #1
jesus4c
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Default Behringer X-Touch One support - most DAWs but not Reaper

Behringer have recently released the X-Touch One single fader control surface and it seems perfect for Reaper users on a tight budget, BUT it's had issues with the fact that a mouse-click on a track in a DAW didn't automatically select that track on the X-Touch One. A definite deal-breaker for most users.

So, Behringer have updated the firmware, and it now works as expected on most DAWs except:

Quote:
Unfortunately Reaper, in regards to Track Selection and their implementation of it under the MC protocol is really just geared up for an 8 channel controller not single channel. It is to do with the way their Track Select works. Unfort nothing we can do about this from our side with regards to Mc Control.

If Reaper update this in future then we will be happy to re-visit for a future firmware release.
Is this something that can be implemented in a future Reaper release?
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:04 PM   #2
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In these forums, there are multiple threads on Surface device Reaper extensions (including "DrivenByMoss4Reaper", "Klinke" and "CSI") these might help with integrating the XTouch One (and hundreds of other Control Surfaces) and to define a workflow for same the meets the actual user's workflow desires (which is heavily depending on the dedicated task they want to accomplish).

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Last edited by mschnell; 09-29-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
In these forums, there are multiple threads on Surface device Reaper extensions (including "DrivenByMoss4Reaper", "Klinke" and "CSI") these might help with integrating the XTouch One (and hundreds of other Control Surfaces) and to define a workflow for same the meets the actual user's workflow desires (which is heavily depending on the dedicated task they want to accomplish).
If I understand the request the workflow is simple enough: select a single track in Reaper, the single track surface controller will select the same track.

From what I have gathered using control surfaces in Reaper is a PITA. While I have the impression that (some) hardware vendors sometimes don't make it easy for DAW developers, but also that Cockos has controls surfaces not very high on its priority list.

I thought about buying a XTouch One, but its odd that this very basic feature doesn't work. It's so basic that I didn't even expect it could not be working out of the box.

I'm fine with spending time to create a very personal worklflow, but I'm disappointed if any given software/hardware combination doesn't offer at least a useful out-of-the-box experience.

But it strikes me odd that there are issues as Beheringer ships the XTouch One even with Reaper UI overlay.

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Old 09-29-2018, 02:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masi View Post
If I understand the request the workflow is simple enough
I suppose on the long run this will suite only a small minority of the users. If I spent money for a hardware controller I will want to use it for many more tasks.
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Cockos has controls surfaces not very high on its priority list.
This obviously is correct, and a good decision.
The complexity of decently supporting a control surface is a task that can be much better done in a 3rd party plugin such as "DrivenByMoss4Reaper", "Klinke" and "CSI".

I do know that "CSI" is very promising but right now in pre-Alpha state. I don't know much about "DrivenByMoss4Reaper" and "Klinke", as to me CSI seems to feature the most viable ideas and I am not in a hurry.

in fact "Moss" is interesting in that it supports multiple DAWs.

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Last edited by mschnell; 09-29-2018 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:04 AM   #5
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If I spent money for a hardware controller I will want to use it for many more tasks.
That's true. But all those posting make me fear that if I buy a controller I either spent days to configure it just to figure out that I cannt use all the features of the controller in Reaper.

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The complexity of decently supporting a control surface is a task that can be much better done in a 3rd party plugin such as "DrivenByMoss4Reaper", "Klinke" and "CSI".
Maybe I'm underestimating the complexity, but I wonder where it comes from? Is it the lack of an *industry* standard? All the proctols that are usually talked of seem to be proprietary with more or less buggy clones.

Anyway, thanks for the pointers. I'll check out those plugins.

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Old 09-29-2018, 10:23 AM   #6
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"DrivenByMoss4Reaper", "Klinke" and "CSI".
DrivenByMoss4Reaper is active. It may or may not be possible to overcome the reported issue by using the generic MCU controller:

http://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/Reaper/Reaper.html

CSurf Klinke seems to be dead (or at least sleeping):

https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker/csurf_klinke_mcu

CSI may be up to it. To get it flying testers are needed:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/33037/CSI%20pre%20alpha.zip

Masi

PS: Still not convinced that Reaper couldn't have full support for MCU and HUI. But I have to admint that I have no clue what a DAW is supposed to (or may send to) a controller when a track is selected. And how to cope with the fact that a user may select more than one track, eg use the last selected one or the one with the lowest number.
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:42 AM   #7
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That's true. But all those posting make me fear that if I buy a controller I either spent days to configure it just to figure out that I cannt use all the features of the controller in Reaper....Maybe I'm underestimating the complexity
That is why I hope for CSI to be "official released". Here the idea is that anybody can create configuration files (not scripts !) supporting possible protocols of a wide range of devices (including but not limited to more or less MCU compatible ones, as well Midi as OSC based, and other files defining the preferred workflows a user might imagine.

Now the extension software in place, the community can create and provide these configuration files.

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Old 09-29-2018, 01:49 PM   #8
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It would be nice if you would give DrivenByMoss4Reaper a spin and report your results. I tested it with quite a lot of different devices which "speak MCU" but not one with only one fader. I took several precautions to not run into the multiple-track-selection problem, so I am pretty sure it will work. Fingers crossed :-)
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:08 PM   #9
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I suppose you addresses jesus4c

If you wanted to address me, as well, I have a Begringer XTouch Compact, which I use to control my live keyboard playing setup. The Compact does feature an "MC" mode (while I use it in it's native mode), but in MC mode several of it's controllers are not accessible. That is why I would rather use it in native mode with Reaper, as well.

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Last edited by mschnell; 10-04-2018 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:03 AM   #10
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Default Reaper XT1 workaround

I posted this on another thread but FYI

So by accident I had XT1 up and running well with with Studio One. I then closed S1 and opened Reaper without changing the XT1 to be configured to Reaper. Lo and behold it worked and it followed track selected on the daw that was selected by mouse click! I haven't tried everything but it's an odd start.

Edit update: Using S1 Template

Pan and Pan to center works

Beats/Time, Master,Ch select, Mute, Solo, and Rec Ch all buttons work

Automation buttons work
Auto punch button works
Metronome button works

Marker Jump button creates a marker
All view buttons and add send, add insert buttons do not work

Transport buttons all work

Zoom and Marker select work

Bank select and ch select work but quirky (ascending thru channels requires a double click on the ch button. Descending works normally. Track selected in daw via mouse follows track in XT1, even beyond the bank

Scribble strip display is correct and fader moves as expected. Jog wheel and undo works.

Scroll up/down and Zoom works
Marker select does not work it zooms horizontally

All preliminary tests but still a viable work around.

NOTE: You need to configure XT1 to be in S1 mode BEFORE you open Reaper
Configuring XT1 while Reaper is open has poor results.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulranger View Post
I posted this on another thread but FYI

Bank select and ch select work but quirky (ascending thru channels requires a double click on the ch button. Descending works normally. Track selected in daw via mouse follows track in XT1, even beyond the bank

NOTE: You need to configure XT1 to be in S1 mode BEFORE you open Reaper
Configuring XT1 while Reaper is open has poor results.
selecting 'MC S1' mode on the XT1 is indeed the way to go

Last edited by Voodoo Chile; 10-11-2018 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulranger View Post
I posted this on another thread but FYI

... Lo and behold it worked and it followed track selected on the daw that was selected by mouse click! I haven't tried everything but it's an odd start.
Tried with S1 mode but my x touch continues to act on the track shown in the LCD display under the encoder.
When selecting a track by mouse click, the 'Assignment' display (the one on the right of the encoder knob) follows the DAW track but the rest of the surface actions are addressed to the track displayed on the blue LCD display under this encoder.


Not the same for you? What kind of surface did you assign in Reaper for the X Touch, Mackie Control Standard?

THX!
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:49 AM   #13
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@flavio

You need to have the XT1 in Studio One mode prior to starting Reaper. Reaper itself does not need to be configured for the XT1. At least this is what worked for me
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:31 PM   #14
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I have been playing with this lately and it does appear the 'MC User' mode is actually the most ideal at the moment. in this mode the read, write, trim, touch and latch buttons work correctly. only the ch select buttons aren't working. you will have to select the channel using a mouse. which 90% of the time I do anyway so not a huge problem for me.

Last edited by Voodoo Chile; 10-12-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:12 AM   #15
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For me, the touch, latch, write buttons only work in S1 mode. Also, in MC user mode, the metronome button doesn't work and there is no way to undo.


Edit: Ok, dumb me, I forgot to map the specific actions through Reaper. It does seem to work well in MC User mode. Like mentioned, the channel buttons on the XT1 don't respond.

Last edited by soulranger; 10-13-2018 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:30 AM   #16
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Interesting, perhaps it has something to do with the version of Reaper. I am still using version 5.52/x64/Win81.

In 'MC User' mode all the buttons are working correctly, including 'Add Marker', 'Toggle Repeat', 'Undo', and 'Save'.

Even though I am in 'MC User' mode I am still using the 'Reaper' overlay template that came with the XT1.

For me only the 'Bank' and 'Channel' buttons aren't working, everything else seems to be working fine.

In 'MC S1' mode the 'Write', 'Trim' and 'Touch' buttons didn't follow the Reaper overlay template and were mixed up.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:48 AM   #17
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Furthermore, when I select every channel in the DAW with my mouse putting each channel in 'SELECT' mode, then I am able to use the Ch Buttons to scroll through all the channels.

In other words, the Ch Button only recognizes tracks that are already selected and highlighted in the DAW.

This of course is useless but maybe it will shed some light on what's going on for the REAPER programmers.
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Old 10-13-2018, 08:07 AM   #18
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Sorry Soulranger, just now noticing your 'Edit' comment.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:30 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulranger View Post
@flavio

You need to have the XT1 in Studio One mode prior to starting Reaper. Reaper itself does not need to be configured for the XT1. At least this is what worked for me
Thank you @soulranger
Did it but same result...
Anyway, I am going to set the MC User mode.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesus4c View Post
Behringer have recently released the X-Touch One single fader control surface and it seems perfect for Reaper users on a tight budget, BUT it's had issues with the fact that a mouse-click on a track in a DAW didn't automatically select that track on the X-Touch One. A definite deal-breaker for most users.

So, Behringer have updated the firmware, and it now works as expected on most DAWs except:



Is this something that can be implemented in a future Reaper release?

Hey - looks like you have been bashing the piggy bank after all! Which Audio-MIDI interface did you go with in the end? Sorry about the OT post.
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