Old 02-15-2021, 05:11 PM   #1
Rodulf
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Default Sparta Ambisonics

Shout out to the updated SPARTA suite of plugins. Works very well with ReaSurround and O3A.
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Old 02-16-2021, 02:22 PM   #2
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http://research.spa.aalto.fi/projects/sparta_vsts/
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Old 04-22-2021, 09:28 AM   #3
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Big update today.
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:47 PM   #4
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Default Got it!

Just downloaded the latest...real nice.
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Old 04-28-2021, 07:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodulf View Post
Shout out to the updated SPARTA suite of plugins. Works very well with ReaSurround and O3A.
Sparta Plugins themselves have a panner so how are you using reasurround with Sparta and o3a plugins?? ... Just curious!!!
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Old 04-28-2021, 09:03 AM   #6
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Sparta Plugins themselves have a panner so how are you using reasurround with Sparta and o3a plugins?? ... Just curious!!!
I was given the suggestion by someone on this forum to use SPARTA Binauralizer in conjunction with ReaSurround. I route the speaker outputs (I've done up to 20) from ReaSurround to SPARTA, setting SPARTA to 20 inputs and letting it convert it all to binaural.
The reason I use ReaSurround instead of SPARTA's panner is that I have a bigger workspace and control of diffusion. The Mighty Lucas re-designed his Luna SE theme to allow an expanded embedded Plugin GUI on the track and now I can expand the ReaSurround GUI to almost full screen.
This works great and now I do almost all of my mixing this way.
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Old 05-04-2021, 06:14 AM   #7
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That is interesting... i too shall try and see how it works it... but then how would you render the file if you did not want it as binaural?? because from Reasuurround there is no way to render into ambisonics... or is there a way???
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:05 AM   #8
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If your outputs can be roughly placed along a sphere you can easily convert your ReaSurround outputs channels into ambisonics with IEM's MultiEncoder : just tell him what are the ideal positions of the speakers, set the order to the higher value you can afford to transmit if you don't want to loose too much spatial precision (minimum 3, better 5), and render its output :-)
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:38 AM   #9
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Ok.. sounds interesting.. i will try it and see... maybe if i have any questions, will ask... or if i find something new, will tell !!
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Old 05-06-2021, 01:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
If your outputs can be roughly placed along a sphere you can easily convert your ReaSurround outputs channels into ambisonics with IEM's MultiEncoder : just tell him what are the ideal positions of the speakers, set the order to the higher value you can afford to transmit if you don't want to loose too much spatial precision (minimum 3, better 5), and render its output :-)
That about what I do with ReaSurround/SPARTA....I make the S{PARTA Binauralizer outputs reflect the ReaSurround outputs and it seems to work fine.
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Old 05-12-2021, 08:55 AM   #11
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Very interesting. Since I am new to ambisonics how would I get reasurround output into the multi encoder?
I guess for 3OA I'd create a 36 channel track with reasurround on it to pan my source and then route that track's 36 channel output into another 36 CH track that has the multiencoder inserted? That channel would be my master out, right?
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:20 AM   #12
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Very interesting. Since I am new to ambisonics how would I get reasurround output into the multi encoder?
I guess for 3OA I'd create a 36 channel track with reasurround on it to pan my source and then route that track's 36 channel output into another 36 CH track that has the multiencoder inserted? That channel would be my master out, right?
SPARTA seems to work better at 64 channels.

I use the Binauralizer. Set at whatever channel count is coming from ReaSurround. I arrange the SPARTA outputs in the same configuration as ReaAurround.

I have an audio track with content going straight to RS, 10 tracks = to channels 1-10. From RS it all goes to SPARTA Binauralizer then to master track.
If you need I will try to post a template.

I've found that O3A doesn't really need SPARTA. Seems to work fine with it's own native decoder.
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Old 05-25-2021, 01:44 AM   #13
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Hadn't heard of sparta before. Looks very interesting!

Could I use it (or combine it with reasurround) to place virtual instruments in various places on a virtual recording sound stage in stereo?
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Old 05-25-2021, 09:41 AM   #14
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Could I use it (or combine it with reasurround) to place virtual instruments in various places on a virtual recording sound stage in stereo?
I would have said yes until "in stereo": ambisonics can of course be decoded to stereo, but it's a byzantine way to do it if you know that your production will end up *only* in stereo.
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Old 05-26-2021, 01:57 AM   #15
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I would have said yes until "in stereo": ambisonics can of course be decoded to stereo, but it's a byzantine way to do it if you know that your production will end up *only* in stereo.
Fair enough :-)
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Old 08-17-2021, 01:39 PM   #16
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Hadn't heard of sparta before. Looks very interesting!

Could I use it (or combine it with reasurround) to place virtual instruments in various places on a virtual recording sound stage in stereo?
Did it work for you?
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Old 08-18-2021, 01:25 AM   #17
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Did it work for you?
I didn't pursue it. After Kewl's comment it seemed like the wrong tool for the job :-)
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:19 PM   #18
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Updated to 1.5.1 and new website. https://leomccormack.github.io/sparta-site/
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:16 AM   #19
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I think I found a combination of plugins that suite me well for music mixing and rendering to binaural:
- IEM plugins for encoding/panning the track
- IEM plugins for signal treatment (reverb, EQ)
- Sparta plugin for binaural decoding

To me the Sparta binaural decoding plugin sounds the least colored.
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:25 PM   #20
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I also found that the Sparta ambiBIN decoder works well with DearVR Pro set to TOA ambiX format output (I really don't like the DearVR binaural output, which I find heavily coloured). The advantage of using DearVR Pro is the virtual acoustics, reflections and disatance effects.
So far, Sparta's binaural decoder sounds the best to me.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:11 AM   #21
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not working in Manjaro ...
following this issue https://github.com/leomccormack/SPARTA/issues/42
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:41 PM   #22
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Sparta just got updated to v1.5.2 including an implementation of a 6 degrees of freedom plugin. Just when I start feeling smart...
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Old 01-24-2022, 10:28 AM   #23
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Default ambiBIN default HRIR set @ 44.1khz instead of 48khz?

Is ambiBIN's default HRIR set available in 44.1khz (perhaps as a SOFA file)? It looks like the author baked in the 48khz responses directly into his code saf_default-hrirs.c (part of his Spatial Audio Framework lib).
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Old 01-24-2022, 12:43 PM   #24
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Is ambiBIN's default HRIR set available in 44.1khz (perhaps as a SOFA file)? It looks like the author baked in the 48khz responses directly into his code saf_default-hrirs.c (part of his Spatial Audio Framework lib).
It certainly seems to be. You can download other SOFA files at 44.1kHz and they will load in just fine. Does the author make it clear what the default HRIR set is?
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Old 01-24-2022, 01:25 PM   #25
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From saf-default-hrirs.c:

* This default HRIR set is a Genelec Aural ID of a KEMAR Dummy Head (@48kHz).
* Kindly provided by Aki Mäkivirta and Jaan Johansson
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Old 01-24-2022, 01:43 PM   #26
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From saf-default-hrirs.c:

* This default HRIR set is a Genelec Aural ID of a KEMAR Dummy Head (@48kHz).
* Kindly provided by Aki Mäkivirta and Jaan Johansson
I have not been able to find any public server with that HRIR set on it. Maybe I'm searching for it wrong but it seems it is an in-house (and possibly proprietary) impulse for Genelec. I suppose if you could get an email or contact for either of those two you could ask if they can send you a 44.1kHz version of the SOFA file.

You are more likely to be redirected to the Aural ID site where you can pay 500 EUR for a version of it customized to your head.
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Old 01-24-2022, 03:27 PM   #27
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I have not been able to find any public server with that HRIR set on it. Maybe I'm searching for it wrong but it seems it is an in-house (and possibly proprietary) impulse for Genelec. I suppose if you could get an email or contact for either of those two you could ask if they can send you a 44.1kHz version of the SOFA file.

You are more likely to be redirected to the Aural ID site where you can pay 500 EUR for a version of it customized to your head.
Thanks for looking, that was my conclusion too. I wrote the SPARTA author a while ago but got no reply. If you were mixing a 44.1khz project but wanted to use the ambiBIN decoder, how would you resolve the fs mismatch? Are there other SOFA HRIRs that you've used that seem to be effective for a wide audience?
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Old 01-25-2022, 09:29 AM   #28
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https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/marl/rese...s-repository-0

https://www.york.ac.uk/sadie-project/database.html
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:55 PM   #29
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Default sparta/compass vsts

yep sparta / compass ... these are this best that i can find

i especially like the compass binaural decoder.

hoping they make a 7th order version soon!
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Old 02-01-2022, 10:56 PM   #30
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Default thanks kewl

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Old 02-03-2022, 06:41 AM   #31
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How does one use MARL-NYU format HRIRs with ambiBIN?
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Old 04-07-2022, 09:42 AM   #32
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This suite has been updated again to 1.6.0.

Changes
  • Added hades_renderer (thank you @jananifernandez)
  • Added sparta_binauraliserNF plug-in (thank you @mtmccrea and @SebastianJiroSchlecht)
  • Added sparta_6dofconv plug-in (thank you @rapolasd @nmkahlen and @thomas-mckenzie)
  • Overhauled the Ambient rendering for the compass_binaural, compass_binauralVR, and compass_decoder plug-ins
  • A number of bug fixes and optimisations
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Old 04-08-2022, 12:14 AM   #33
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It would be nice to know why the previous sparta ui seems to crash reaper in linux.
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Old 01-10-2023, 04:17 PM   #34
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Just curious if anyone out there is using an ARM M1/2 Mac and SPARTA with Reaper. What kind of performance are you seeing? I'm still on an i9 Macbook Pro with plans to upgrade to an ARM machine sometime this year.

On my i9, SPARTA/COMPASS seems to bottom out the CPU with anything higher than third order. I'm hoping that running natively on an ARM processor would finally unlock working in higher orders up to 7OA. (Which I know is technically possible with intel, but just not practical/realistic in terms of CPU performance.)

Anyone?
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Old 01-12-2023, 05:57 AM   #35
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You talk about SPARTA & COMPASS, but you don't specify what plug-ins.

The basic SPARTA plug-ins, like AmbiENC, are not CPU-hungry. In my test, the AmbiENC is even slightly less CPU demanding than the IEM StereoEncoder or MultiEncoder. At the other end of the CPU spectrum, the COMPASS Upmixer or the HO-DirAC Upmixer are high CPU consumers, even on Apple Silicon.

So, for SPARTA, COMPASS (and others like IEM & Harpex), the CPU question is does the specific plug-in use linear processing (encoders/panners, most decoders) or parametric processing (COMPASS, HO-DirAC, Harpex)?

Also, to reduce CPU demand with Reaper, static sound objects can be sent to one instance of SPARTA AmbiENC or IEM MultiEncoder, both of which can encode up to 64 sound objects. In this exemple, if these 64 sounds have their own 7th order panner, Reaper has to deal with 4096 channels (64*64). But if the 64 sounds are sent to one instance of SPARTA AmbiENC or IEM MultiEncoder, Reaper deals with 128 channels (64+64). This can make a big difference in terms of CPU demand, Intel or Apple Silicon.

So, at the end of the day, will the switch to Apple Silicon make a difference? Yes. I use various Apple Silicon Macs (from basic 8 GB M1 MacBook Air to fully charged 128 GB M1 Ultra Mac Studio), and I can see appreciable performance improvements compared to Intel Macs, but judicious use of the number of channels in Reaper can have a bigger impact than the actual type of CPU used.
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Old 01-12-2023, 01:35 PM   #36
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Ah yes, I should have been more specific. I intended to ask about performance with the COMPASS/HoDirAC upmixer/decoder/binaural/etc. On my i9 MBP (using high buffer settings), I can only manage using one instance of the upmixer/decoders and only at 3OA before Reaper starts to stutter. I’m hoping that I could use multiple instances at higher orders with an ARM machine. Does that seem possible in your experience? What kind of CPU load do you see with these under ARM? And what kind of difference do notice between the M1 Air vs the Ultra Studio in terms of performance? And your point about using one 7OA planner for multiple sound objects is something I hadn’t considered but makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2023, 04:36 AM   #37
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It is a problem with the current Compass Upmixer where more that 1 instance generates dropouts and freeze even with a powerful computer.
I use the previous version (1.6.0) which can handle rather well several instances and up to 7th order.
You could try perhaps?
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Old 01-13-2023, 11:12 AM   #38
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This is a Reaper project that uses Harpex and COMPASS upmixer. The original project was done in Nuendo and the tracks were exported for the upmixing to 7th order in Reaper.

In Reaper, four tracks are 1st order and use Harpex to upmix 1st to 3rd order followed by COMPASS Upmixer to upmix 3rd to 7th order. Eight tracks are 3rd order and use COMPASS Upmixer, 3rd to 7th order.

It's done on a Mac Studio Ultra: Reaper Main Window / Reaper Mixer Window

Reaper Rosetta: Reaper Performance Meter / macOS Activity Monitor

Reaper Apple Silicon: Reaper Performance Meter / macOS Activity Monitor

Last edited by Kewl; 01-13-2023 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-13-2023, 12:42 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm duchenne View Post
It is a problem with the current Compass Upmixer where more that 1 instance generates dropouts and freeze even with a powerful computer.
I use the previous version (1.6.0) which can handle rather well several instances and up to 7th order.
You could try perhaps?
Interesting. I'm using 1.6.2 so maybe I'll experiment with the older versions, too.
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Old 01-13-2023, 12:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewl View Post
This is a Reaper project that uses Harpex and COMPASS upmixer. The original project was done in Nuendo and the tracks were exported for the upmixing to 7th order in Reaper.

In Reaper, four tracks are 1st order and use Harpex to upmix 1st to 3rd order followed by COMPASS Upmixer to upmix 3rd to 7th order. Eight tracks are 3rd order and use COMPASS Upmixer, 3rd to 7th order.

It's done on a Mac Studio Ultra: Reaper Main Window / Reaper Mixer Window

Reaper with Rosetta: Reaper Performance Meter / macOS Activity Monitor

Reaper Apple Silicon: Reaper Performance Meter / macOS Activity Monitor
This is very helpful info, Kewl. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Out of curiosity, why did you decide to use Harpex and then Compass? Is there a particular theory behind that? (I have Harpex, too, and like it a lot--it was what I used before Compass came on the scene but lately have been sticking with Compass and I haven't tried "stacking" them like this.) Presumably you find that gives better results than using Compass to go straight from FOA to 7OA?

And do you notice significantly better performance on the Studio vs the Air? I've been waiting for the next gen M2 MBP to come out but the rumor is it's delayed again and I'm getting impatient and considering getting lower-tier Air or Mini in the short term...
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