06-21-2021, 12:54 PM | #1 |
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VST3 on Linus now available
yabridge is a modern and transparent way to use Windows VST2 and VST3 plugins on Linux as if they were native Linux VST2 and VST3 plugins. VST2 and VST3 are the two most widely used standards for audio processing plugins. Historically the vast majority of these plugins have only been available for Windows and macOS.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comme...st_ever_linux/ |
06-21-2021, 03:33 PM | #3 |
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and share your enthusiasm!
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06-21-2021, 04:28 PM | #4 |
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06-22-2021, 03:29 PM | #5 |
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Sorry, about the old news. I have a newbie question: all I have to do is install Linux and then Yabridge? I'm ready to go with Reaper and all my VST3s?
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06-22-2021, 03:51 PM | #6 |
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You'll need to have WINE installed for any Windows plugins to run in, and Yabridge makes them look like native Linux VST3s to the Linux version of REAPER.
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06-22-2021, 10:08 PM | #7 |
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And for now, don't get a wine newer than 6.4, as the reaper prefs area won't show any text. AVLinux distro has a Reaper demo and wine 6.2 preinstalled, which would help you test things. The iso can be burned on a dvd or use
rufus usb utility from windows or other utility that put's iso's on a bootable usbstick. AVLinux: www.bandshed.net/avlinux https://rufus.ie/en_US/ Cheers |
06-23-2021, 02:30 AM | #8 | |
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Running the Linux version of REAPER and bridging Windows plugins in WINE does not have that problem. Personally, I have no need for the Windows version of REAPER in Linux. |
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06-23-2021, 03:09 AM | #9 |
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So, all this Linux/VST/WINE has me all confused. Admittedly, I am not a seasoned Linux user but I have been thinking of having Reaper run on Linux. I have held off because I believed my plugins (Windows) would not work. I have invested too much to then not have use of them.
I know one can run WINE but that just seems like another layer of processing to get in the way. So here are some question I hope someone can be kind enough to answer. If I run Linux version of Reaper, can I run my Windows plugins with Yardbridge? How are ilock plugins handled in all this? Can I run Ozone, Waves, Native Instruments? without any black-magic that normally comes with doing anything on Linux? Many thanks.
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06-23-2021, 03:13 AM | #10 | ||
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There are some limitations. For example, iLok is really difficult to get to work and some other copy protection software is causing problems as well.
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06-23-2021, 03:28 AM | #11 | |
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Waves doesn't work because it requires Powershell which isn't supported by Wine. But at least on person says they got it to work https://github.com/PietJankbal/power...-wine/issues/4 Native Instruments seems to be working okay, though. |
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06-23-2021, 04:09 AM | #12 | |
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From the companies you mentioned, Native Instruments is actually the only company that doesn't use these kinds of DRM. Installing their plugins can still be slightly tricky ever since they got rid of the ability to just download the installer from their website (installation instructions), but other than that their plugins run flawlessly. iLoK Cloud mostly works, but I'd still recommend avoiding it because of their business practices and the amount of headaches those can cause. And USB iLoK won't work at the moment. With iLoK you need to be careful to deactivate your licenses first before you upgrade Wine or change any partitions on your system since iLoK will then think you're on a new computer and your licenses would be invalidated if you didn't manually deactivate them yourself first. Waves plugins works under Wine, but I'd stay away from it as far as possible. Waves Central 12 is built with six layers of overengineering, and getting that to install involves about 20 minutes of elbow grease. And then there's of course no guarantee that it will keep working, with Waves only offering to reset your licenses once per year. So if things go wrong twice, Waves expects you to just pay up again. And iZotope plugins don't activate at all under Wine at the moment. There used to be a way to at least get the 32-bit versions of the plugins to activate, but those versions are no longer supported. But luckily there are lots of other great plugins about there that don't use these kinds of DRM! Even FabFilter doesn't do these things, and they just use a simple challenge-response system instead. |
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06-23-2021, 06:30 AM | #13 | |
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Currently I'm running WINE 6.10 and Kontakt, Superior Drummer 2, Arturia MiniMoog V, and some other Windows plugins I still use all work. If those break at some point, I'll downgrade. Also, when I switched to Linux I ditched a couple of plugins I had that I knew were going to be problematic due to their "Alien on your face laying exploding eggs in your stomach" copy protection. I got rid of Lexicon MPX Native Reverb with the iLok dongle and PACE virus it needs to run, and a Waves DBX160 compressor that needs the WaveShell virus. |
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06-23-2021, 06:51 AM | #14 | |
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In the Video it does not seem to feature yabridge -Michael |
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06-23-2021, 07:59 AM | #15 |
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Kontakt and a couple of other plugins were consistently crashing on me on shutdown with Wine (Staging) 6.10/6.11 and I've heard similar reports from others, but after trying it again for like the seventh time that now mysteriously doesn't seem to happen anymore. So something's clearly broken, but I also don't know what's going on anymore!
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06-23-2021, 08:26 AM | #16 | |
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If I do start experiencing brokenness, I will certainly be fixing it then, but for now my experience has been that it's not broke for me and the way I use Windows plugins running in WINE. |
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06-23-2021, 12:11 PM | #17 | |
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Just some thoughts from someone who's been through all this before and to whom all the issues, 15 years later, seem horribly familiar. Good luck (and I suspect you will need it...) Last edited by mike@overtonedsp; 06-23-2021 at 12:22 PM. |
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06-23-2021, 01:19 PM | #18 | |
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It's fine that you don't want to bother, but why discourage those who do? What are you trying to achieve by cautioning against using Windows plugins on Linux? Even through Wine, I'm having a better experience with MeldaProduction plugins than all native Linux plugins I've tried. And I'm having a better time on Linux than I could ever have on Windows. Why would I give that up because "the best operating system to run Windows binaries is, and remains - Windows." That makes no sense to me. |
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06-23-2021, 01:53 PM | #19 | ||
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Last edited by mike@overtonedsp; 06-23-2021 at 02:04 PM. |
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06-23-2021, 02:06 PM | #20 | |
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And while in an ideal world Wine would not be necessary, right now it functions sort of as a bridge for Linux adoption. Lots of people are interested in running Linux, but they may also want to use certain applications (and in the context of music production, plugins) that simply aren't available for Linux yet. And the main reason they aren't available for Linux is that barely anyone uses Linux on the desktop. Having robust tools available to use software like that on Linux can make the difference between a curious person wanting to give Linux a try and them avoiding Linux entirely. And it of course also means there are more toys to play with on Linux for those who want to get their hands dirty. Once the number of Linux users grows, the larger developers will surely also take notice and we will no longer need things things like Wine, but until that time comes this gives us the best of both worlds. Those fifteen years probably made a big difference. Wine's been rock solid for me during development, and I'm very happy with how well yabridge works now. Using plugins through yabridge really does feel like using any other native plugin, and with the upcoming yabridge 3.4.0 I could measure a consistent 12-20 microsecond DSP load overhead added by yabridge (on top of the actual Windows plugin's audio processing) depending on the buffer size, so performance is also pretty good. (I could do even more optimization work after the audio processing rewrite I did for the next version, but the current approach strikes a nice balance between flexibility and performance) |
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06-23-2021, 02:25 PM | #21 | |
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I think copy protection and dongles are way more unpredictable than Wine. Fortunately, most also don't work with Wine, so I can resist the tempting Waves and iLok plugins much more easily Like Robbert said, Wine has come a loooong way. It's not perfect, but it's the best option for me. The main selling point for me for native plugins would be drag and drop support, but that doesn't even work in REAPER (see my signature). And what's more convincing to a developer than a bunch of paying customers asking for a Linux version? |
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06-25-2021, 08:48 AM | #22 |
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Thank you for the replies.
So a short answer, With Linux-native Reaper and VST2 and VST3 plugins with yabridge I still need Wine, yes? Last edited by krahosk; 06-25-2021 at 12:20 PM. |
06-25-2021, 09:12 AM | #23 |
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Yes. You install your Windows plugins in WINE, and then Yabridge builds links to them that REAPER for Linux sees as Linux plugins.
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06-25-2021, 12:21 PM | #24 |
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06-26-2021, 07:07 AM | #25 |
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I forgot that I'm not set yet, I have to make my Scarlett 2i2 interface work also. And there's my monitor which outputs at more than 60HZ, I don't want to lose that feature on Linux either.
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06-26-2021, 07:10 AM | #26 |
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2i2, all 3 generations, work well in Linux.
Your monitor should work well too. Try a live USB of a distro if you're in doubt. |
06-26-2021, 10:13 AM | #27 |
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Thank you, James. I'm still new to the idea of switching to Linux. Which distro would you recommend?
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06-26-2021, 11:31 AM | #28 |
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I use Manjaro and it's what I recommend. You can search my posts and see that I have discussed it a lot on this forum. It's very up-to-date for its software and kernel, and has lots of software in the repos.
Read this in particular, about setting up a distro for low-latency audio use: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....11#post2349311 There are only a few things that need to be done, and they're basically the same things you'd be changing in other OSes (but Linux has different ways of adjusting these things). Last edited by JamesPeters; 06-27-2021 at 12:02 PM. |
06-26-2021, 01:37 PM | #29 |
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I was looking for documentation and I read on Manjaro just before reading your reply. Thank you for the further reading, I still need to familiarize myself with some important details before I commit to Linux.
EDIT: is that an important setting to adjust as well? https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....66#post2430966 Last edited by krahosk; 06-26-2021 at 01:53 PM. |
06-26-2021, 03:05 PM | #30 |
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He mentions some things that I mentioned, so yes. We accomplish them in slightly different ways but you'll notice it's the same thing I said. The few things I mentioned: they're critical for really good performance. The rest is questionable, and it depends on exactly what you're doing with the system.
About the realtime privileges: I didn't notice a difference but I do it anyway now. I install "realtime-privileges" package (from Pamac aka "Add/Remove Software"), then add my user to the "realtime" group using the User Accounts application. It's easier than the other way (less manual file editing, more "clicking on things"). As for that version of Wine, yes I'd recommend it too (and staying with version 6.4 at the moment since later versions cause issues in some plugins). As for the specific Wine tweaks like fsync: I didn't notice a difference, but it's easy enough to do (in Manjaro KDE the file you have to edit is called ".bash_profile" though). |
06-26-2021, 04:02 PM | #31 |
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Thank you again, your replies are much appreciated. A bit of logistics for the next few days in order to make Linux possible soon on my computer. Can't wait. :-)
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06-26-2021, 08:33 PM | #32 |
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Yabridge is quite simple to install and use, like linvst, some of the unarchived files go in /usr/bin, and others in your /home/usr/share/yabridge folder, and it and doesn't seem to need extra dependencies on the various distros I've tried it on. Robert's long informative posts bely the simplicity of actual use. You issue one command for each folder of plugins you want wrapped, and then one command that does all the wrapping in one fell swoop.
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06-27-2021, 02:49 AM | #33 | |
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06-27-2021, 08:37 AM | #34 |
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Still learning without any hands-on experience with Linux, I still have many questions. Like, the only thing I have to install is Jack to make my 2i2 work?
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06-27-2021, 12:01 PM | #35 |
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Jack is only needed for connecting multiple audio devices and/or multiple applications together. If you're just using a device in Reaper, use ALSA. It's simpler, more direct, and lower latency. ALSA is there by default.
BTW I'm probably switching back to Manjaro XFCE. I've noticed with KDE my CPU fan has been throttling a lot more often when opening applications or browser tabs for some sites, which doesn't happen in XFCE that I remember. It's no cause for alarm since it's only one of my CPU cores that spikes for several seconds, but I find it a bit annoying. I like my computer to be as silent as possible. |
06-28-2021, 10:58 AM | #36 |
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The difference between XFCE and KDE is that the former is Unix-style and has less configurations for the GUI? What about Manjaro Cinnamon?
https://manjaro.org/downloads/community/cinnamon/ The difference is that it has more bells and whistles GUI-wise? I know I'd have to try them to know, utlimately. Then I just realized that I can partition my main PC to try out Manjaro. It will facilitate and accelerate my migration. :-) |
06-28-2021, 11:07 AM | #37 |
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You'll have to try each one to decide which you prefer. It's more of a personal thing. All of them are fine. All of them have plenty of configuration for the desktop environment, but the way you do it is a bit different in each. KDE has the best settings manager and some more modern touches, but I find myself changing the look to be the same no matter what DE I use.
Remember you can boot a live ISO of each distro on a USB flash drive to test the interface and see which you prefer. Last edited by JamesPeters; 06-28-2021 at 11:39 AM. |
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