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Old 01-03-2021, 11:17 AM   #12281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmG View Post

If anyone in future reads this with an FCB1010, save your ankles and message me and I'll send you the sysex.
Ok, maybe this is the solution for me?

I am trying to make the FCB1010 controlling actions in the MIDI editor in Reaper but some actions/switches wont work for me.

Code:
Zone "TransportControls|"
    Switch06            Stop
    Switch07            Play 
// 1068 Transport: Toggle repeat     
    Switch08            Reaper "1068"
// Custom: Looper Rec Stop
   Switch09             Reaper "_ae154b2773f6b447b9034621c9e8809d"
// Edit: Toggle mute events
    Switch10            Reaper "40055"    
// Take: Cycle items to previous take    
    Switch03            Reaper "42350"
// Set Playrate to 1.0    
    Switch04            Reaper "40521"
// Decrease Playrate 60%    
    Switch05            Reaper "_S&M_CYCLACTION_22"
ZoneEnd
Switch 4 and 5 works for me when I'm in midi editor but Switch 10 dont work.
These 3 I have setup myself, the other switches are from original zone file and dont do anything....
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:46 AM   #12282
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Track A has 4 sends
Track B has 0 sends

if I switch to "MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" my controller (Qcon Icon Pro G2) works perfectly on Track A. Track B shows the values -150 for the first four sends even though none of them is mapped. That's a little distracting: you don't know if just the send is at -infinite or if no send is mapped.
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:44 PM   #12283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
Track A has 4 sends
Track B has 0 sends

if I switch to "MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" my controller (Qcon Icon Pro G2) works perfectly on Track A. Track B shows the values -150 for the first four sends even though none of them is mapped. That's a little distracting: you don't know if just the send is at -infinite or if no send is mapped.
Whilst I agree it would be tidier if the -150dB was blanked, doesn't the absence of an FX send name tell you that no send is mapped?
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:57 PM   #12284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
Track A has 4 sends
Track B has 0 sends

if I switch to "MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" my controller (Qcon Icon Pro G2) works perfectly on Track A. Track B shows the values -150 for the first four sends even though none of them is mapped. That's a little distracting: you don't know if just the send is at -infinite or if no send is mapped.
I'd venture to guess that's the surface doing that or the MCU protocol itself. For instance, using OSC to display TrackSendLevel, any unmapped sends just display as blank. Not as -150db. So I don't think it's coming from CSI.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:04 PM   #12285
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd venture to guess that's the surface doing that or the MCU protocol itself. For instance, using OSC to display TrackSendLevel, any unmapped sends just display as blank. Not as -150db. So I don't think it's coming from CSI.
It happens when you move from track to track without going Home inbetween. Pressing the MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets button clears it. Happens on OSC too.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:08 PM   #12286
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd venture to guess that's the surface doing that or the MCU protocol itself. For instance, using OSC to display TrackSendLevel, any unmapped sends just display as blank. Not as -150db. So I don't think it's coming from CSI.
I actually noticed a similar behavior when I tried using the send navigator.

If track A had 4 sends, the rgb would light up what I told them to. If I switched to a track with less sends, 4 rgbs were still lit.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:21 PM   #12287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
It happens when you move from track to track without going Home inbetween. Pressing the MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets button clears it. Happens on OSC too.
It's been a minute since I used it but I had Mapselectedtracksendstowidgets mapped to Ontrackselection and still noticed the behavior
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:28 PM   #12288
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OK, let's talk about an OSC display only implementation.

It gets complex real fast.

How do you state the fact that, even though the OSC is TrackNavigator based, it does not use its own TrackNavigator, but rather piggybacks on other TrackNavigators -- that's the crux of the problem.

You would have to do something to ensure that the OSC surface was listed AFTER the surface(s) with the Navigators it piggybacks off of, ugghh.

For instance, if there are 2 surfaces before the OSC surface, does it piggyback off of the first ? the second ? both ?

Maybe we just allow simple adjustment by having an offset parameter for all surfaces.

That will work, but now for users without a need for this feature, we have just complicated their life -- they have to take what was an automatic layout feature, and explicitly state the offset for every surface, even though they don't even use OSC.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious -- hope so.

Let the FR discussion begin
Couldn't we do something like this:


It's something that people have to check in order for it even to be turned off.
Maybe the default sign should read: "(defaul: unchecked)"
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:31 PM   #12289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
It's been a minute since I used it but I had Mapselectedtracksendstowidgets mapped to Ontrackselection and still noticed the behavior
I don't get that here, if I have:
Code:
OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
...the unused sends clear.

The issue occurs when using the TrackNavigator to move between tracks (TrackUniqueSelect), whilst displaying sends using the SendsNavigator.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:32 PM   #12290
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd venture to guess that's the surface doing that or the MCU protocol itself. For instance, using OSC to display TrackSendLevel, any unmapped sends just display as blank. Not as -150db. So I don't think it's coming from CSI.
On my surface it happens when no track has been selected. When I select a track and "MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" engages it clears it, as MixMonkey said.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:34 PM   #12291
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Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
On my surface it happens when no track has been selected. When I select a track and "MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" engages it clears it, as MixMonkey said.
I think we may find that CSI is displaying -150dB from a non-existent send because that's what Reaper has told it to do.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:35 PM   #12292
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I think we may find that CSI is displaying -150dB from a non-existent send because that's what Reaper has told it to do.
Yes, that is what I assumed as well and not an issue of CSI but of Reaper in my opinion. But it's an easy fix. I just tap any of my encoders and that selects the track and it clears.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:44 PM   #12293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I don't get that here, if I have:
Code:
OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
...the unused sends clear.

The issue occurs when using the TrackNavigator to move between tracks (TrackUniqueSelect), whilst displaying sends using the SendsNavigator.
The values clear, the lights didn't. I'll try and fire it back up later. I suspect it was because the lights arent tied to the rotaries on my surface. I haven't tested this in a while though. I hardly adjust sends anyhow so I took it out of my zone completely. I also just assumed I may have set it up wrong.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:50 PM   #12294
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Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
The values clear, the lights didn't. I'll try and fire it back up later. I suspect it was because the lights arent tied to the rotaries on my surface. I haven't tested this in a while though. I hardly adjust sends anyhow so I took it out of my zone completely. I also just assumed I may have set it up wrong.
Ah, I see. I was referring to the value display. It's worth mentioning that the send names clear just fine.
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Old 01-03-2021, 01:54 PM   #12295
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Hello there,

Is there a way to define custom track banks in CSI, as opposed to the default Tracks-1-8, Tracks 9-16, etc?

This would be useful for adjusting monitor mixes where I only want to adjust certain tracks.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:02 PM   #12296
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Hello there,

Is there a way to define custom track banks in CSI, as opposed to the default Tracks-1-8, Tracks 9-16, etc?

This would be useful for adjusting monitor mixes where I only want to adjust certain tracks.
Use the SWS Snapshot utility. You can create show/hide groups for the MCP and the surfaces will follow the visibility.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:06 PM   #12297
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I'm not getting that send behavior, but maybe it's because I'm using a SelectedTrackNavigator and not using the TrackBank actions.

My setup:

1. I have widgets dedicated to sends (RotaryC1-C8 and RotaryD1-D8 - along with corresponding displays)

2. I use "OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets" - no button to map sends, only the virtual widget

3. The send displays are on my iPad

4. As mentioned, I'm using SelectedTrackNavigator and native Reaper actions to navigate or my mouse

Result:

If I load a track with 3 sends, they appear as expected.

If I navigate away from that track to another with zero sends, the send names disappear, but so do the send level widgets, send pan, and the button state displays. So maybe the issue is some combination of the map sends button that I don't use, and/or the track navigator/trackbank for track selection.

Where I get wonky behavior with displays:

If I click outside of Reaper, or close Reaper. Sometimes things don't clear out on the iPad.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:10 PM   #12298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Use the SWS Snapshot utility. You can create show/hide groups for the MCP and the surfaces will follow the visibility.
Thank you!
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:14 PM   #12299
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Here's a little New Years gift to play around with An OSC mixer with sends support and a built in C4 emulator for FX using the FXMenu and SelectedTrackNavigator.






Last edited by MixMonkey; 02-05-2021 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:19 PM   #12300
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Nice one MixMonkey!
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:26 PM   #12301
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....and because you might not want the mixer functionality, I've made a standalone C4 emulator.



In the standalone version, the purple buttons are customisable.

The big fader on the right is for the last touched FX parameter, so all you have to use the rotaries for is selection and display.

The C4 RotaryPush is 'under' the FX param name display.

Both are capable of using FX zones created by the C4 FX Configurator

Last edited by MixMonkey; 02-05-2021 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:26 PM   #12302
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Great work MixMonkey! Many thanks!
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Old 01-03-2021, 02:55 PM   #12303
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Before I forget, I uncovered a bug with the last touched FX parameter actions. If you have tracks hidden in the MCP, it doesn't work properly.

Easy to replicate, just create three tracks, put some fx on one and three. Switch back and forth between them, the last touched parameter action works fine.

Now hide track 2 in the MCP and try it again...
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:20 PM   #12304
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This should be much clearer.

OSC meter bridge over wifi:

You're listening to a drum kit. Track 1 and Track 3 is what you should look at. The main kick and the main snare. Track 2 is a supplemental kick sample and most of what's after track 3 has to do with the snare. Looks like track 8 is a floor tom but that's a little hard to hear.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bso...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:27 PM   #12305
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Trying the OSC C4 Template! MM you're a madman! Works like a charm!

I noticed a couple bugs straight away, not sure if they are known but here goes:

1. Adjusting a stepped parameter just makes the parameter cycle through all the steps rapidly.

2. The whole JS issue where you define a range that's outside 0 to 1 and the feedback processor goes crazy because it's not interpolating the feedback. That issue makes a parameter like that non-adjustable because the feedback and the knob position are tied together and fighting eachother.
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Old 01-04-2021, 07:43 AM   #12306
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Quote:
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Trying the OSC C4 Template! MM you're a madman! Works like a charm!

I noticed a couple bugs straight away, not sure if they are known but here goes:

1. Adjusting a stepped parameter just makes the parameter cycle through all the steps rapidly.

2. The whole JS issue where you define a range that's outside 0 to 1 and the feedback processor goes crazy because it's not interpolating the feedback. That issue makes a parameter like that non-adjustable because the feedback and the knob position are tied together and fighting eachother.
1. Don't assign stepped parameters to rotaries, just use regular endless encoder/lasttouchedparam fader- it works just as well. If you've assigned acceleration to your rotaries, this seems to be ignored by OSC, so all good there.

Stepped parameters work fine on the pushes also.

2. You're on your own with JS plugs
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Old 01-04-2021, 07:49 AM   #12307
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1. Don't assign stepped parameters to rotaries, just use regular endless encoder/lasttouchedparam fader- it works just as well. If you've assigned acceleration to your rotaries, this seems to be ignored by OSC, so all good there.

Stepped parameters work fine on the pushes also.

2. You're on your own with JS plugs
Yeah that last touched parameter thing works great, nice work adding that in!

The VSC-2 plugin for example kinda just "makes sense" to put the stepped parameter on the rotaries, as well as some acustica stuff. That all works on the twisters.

And the JS plugins will work fantastically once the range gets interpolated in the feedback processors, it already works well on the twisters minus that part.

Anywho, thanks again that osc template is great!
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:05 AM   #12308
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The VSC-2 plugin for example kinda just "makes sense" to put the stepped parameter on the rotaries, as well as some acustica stuff. That all works on the twisters.
Yeah, works fine on the 'real' C4 here. Regarding stepped parameters on Rotaries, I used to do this (I have a lot of Acustica stuff and most of the EQ freqs are steps) but I've discovered, if you get the acceleration values nailed for your controller, it really isn't worth the effort. The only time I bother now is when I come across a plugin that just refuses to work with the regular encoder form.


Quote:
And the JS plugins will work fantastically once the range gets interpolated in the feedback processors, it already works well on the twisters minus that part.
This is one for Geoff, I think
Quote:
Anywho, thanks again that osc template is great!
You're very welcome If you get a chance, could you see if you can reproduce the lasttouchedfxparam/hidden tracks issue I came across?
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:12 AM   #12309
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Yeah, works fine on the 'real' C4 here. Regarding stepped parameters on Rotaries, I used to do this (I have a lot of Acustica stuff and most of the EQ freqs are steps) but I've discovered, if you get the acceleration values nailed for your controller, it really isn't worth the effort. The only time I bother now is when I come across a plugin that just refuses to work with the regular encoder form.




This is one for Geoff, I think


You're very welcome If you get a chance, could you see if you can reproduce the lasttouchedfxparam/hidden tracks issue I came across?

Sorry for not separating the quotes here:

1. My rotaries don't ever "just work" on stepped parameters, I have to map them as stepped or they don't function. Funkybot have you noticed that as well with the twister?

2 Yeah I bring it up every now and again. For the most part, its inconsequential but on OSC its unusable. (Again not a huge problem for me at this juncture)

3. Absolutely, I'll test it tonight if I can.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:39 AM   #12310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
This should be much clearer.

OSC meter bridge over wifi:

You're listening to a drum kit. Track 1 and Track 3 is what you should look at. The main kick and the main snare. Track 2 is a supplemental kick sample and most of what's after track 3 has to do with the snare. Looks like track 8 is a floor tom but that's a little hard to hear.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bso...ew?usp=sharing
Ok, that performance certainly looks acceptable.
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Old 01-04-2021, 10:48 AM   #12311
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OK, so dragging the discussion back the the OSC as mirrored display FR.

I've been thinking about this, and there may be a way to make it reasonable for "normal" users, yet still allow for mirroring -- general mirroring -- not just OSC.

We could add an offset parameter to the surface dialogs that is "somewhat smart".

Based on the overall Page config, it could guess the offset when you add a new surface.

That way regular usage would remain the same.

But, you could override that parameter if you wanted mirroring.

What do you think good folks ?
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:01 AM   #12312
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So if I had two 8-channel surfaces, I'd just add both to the same page and offset the second by -8, and then any widgets would effectively be mirrored? And if I had three 8-channel surfaces and wanted to mirror surface 1 on surface 3, I'd offset surface 3 by -16? And everything stays in sync between the different surfaces when banking? If yes, makes sense!

Would you be locked to negative offset values only? Or could you do a +8 offset?
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:41 AM   #12313
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
So if I had two 8-channel surfaces, I'd just add both to the same page and offset the second by -8, and then any widgets would effectively be mirrored? And if I had three 8-channel surfaces and wanted to mirror surface 1 on surface 3, I'd offset surface 3 by -16? And everything stays in sync between the different surfaces when banking? If yes, makes sense!

Would you be locked to negative offset values only? Or could you do a +8 offset?
Actually no negative offsets.

So for two 8 channel surfaces in "normal" mode:

1st surface has offset 0 and 8 channels

2nd surface has offset 8 and 8 channels



For two 8 channel surfaces in "mirrored" mode:

1st surface has offset 0 and 8 channels

2nd surface has offset 0 and 8 channels
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Old 01-04-2021, 11:50 AM   #12314
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Thanks for clarifying! I was thinking it would work like (normal mode) this...

Surface One:
8 Channels
0 Channel Offset

Surface Two:
8 Channels
0 Channel Offset

(This way users never have to worry about offset in standard use - it's always zero except in the special use cases)

...then in "Mirrored Mode":

Surface One:
8 Channel
0 Channel Offset

Surface Two:
8 Channels
-8 Channel Offset

("I need this surface to mirror the first one and subtract 8 channels from the default assignment")

...that implementation seems a little more straightforward to me, getting you to the same end result, but that may because of how similar it is to the lead/lag time functions on the billing system at work, which is what I related it to.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:15 PM   #12315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Thanks for clarifying! I was thinking it would work like (normal mode) this...

Surface One:
8 Channels
0 Channel Offset

Surface Two:
8 Channels
0 Channel Offset

(This way users never have to worry about offset in standard use - it's always zero except in the special use cases)

...then in "Mirrored Mode":

Surface One:
8 Channel
0 Channel Offset

Surface Two:
8 Channels
-8 Channel Offset

("I need this surface to mirror the first one and subtract 8 channels from the default assignment")

...that implementation seems a little more straightforward to me, getting you to the same end result, but that may because of how similar it is to the lead/lag time functions on the billing system at work, which is what I related it to.
Going to have to completely disagree with you in this one

I think negatives are way more confusing

Don't forget, I said the config would have some "smarts".

So the config would "guess" the right offset based on the surfaces added so far -- the regular use offset would be auto filled correctly.

I think your lead/lag billing use case is easy for you because you are used to that in your work environment.

Here's how I think about it -- we'll use T for TrackNavigator:

T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T -- T ...
0 -- 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4 -- 5 -- 6 -- 7 -- 8 -- 9 -- 10...

where the number is the offset.

So the question is: "How many channels do you have and where do you want the first channel to start? "

There would be an input box for each value.

The offset would autofill based on the rest of the config, but you could override it.
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:28 PM   #12316
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Geoff, of course I'm totally fine with your approach. I recognize that the way the systems at work operate may be totally counter-intuitive and may have ruined my brain!
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Old 01-04-2021, 03:42 PM   #12317
cjewellstudios
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I think that's great!

I am not going to argue on the approach. I was thinking like Funkybot, but it's really no matter. I may have just been thinking for me specifically, like I want track 9 to = track 1, how do you get there? Well you subtract 8. But, however you want to do it is fine by me. It's a specialized thing anyhow, and if you are going to do it, you only have to wrap your head around it once and then you don't have to worry about it.

Very happy we are trying this out!
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Old 01-04-2021, 03:42 PM   #12318
Gass n Klang
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I'd love to have an option to solo the receive track in sends mode by clicking the solo button of the send fader channel. Something like "TrackReceiveSolo". That way I could listen to the wet signal in sends mode. Could be very cool
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Old 01-04-2021, 04:30 PM   #12319
Nick Morris
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can anyone confirm behavior for Eucon sends? On an artist mix, select a channel with multiple sends and hit the aux/group button. Then the channel button. Does it display every send with the name of the first send?

I can't tell if I messed up the zone file or if its just a Eucon bug.

Edit: must be a bug, the on button only effects the first send in Reaper, but all the channels at the same time on the surface.
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:32 PM   #12320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
can anyone confirm behavior for Eucon sends? On an artist mix, select a channel with multiple sends and hit the aux/group button. Then the channel button. Does it display every send with the name of the first send?

I can't tell if I messed up the zone file or if its just a Eucon bug.

Edit: must be a bug, the on button only effects the first send in Reaper, but all the channels at the same time on the surface.
Can confirm both bugs. I've got 3 sends on a track: 1) Delay Throw, 2) Hall Verb, 3) Plate Verb.

If I...

1. Select the track on the Artist Mix
2. Click Group/Aux

Result: I see the "Delay Throw" send name. Send 1 works entirely as expected. Now if I...

3. Page to the next send

Result: I see the send level changes but the name still appears as "Delay Throw." Expect to see "Hall Verb." Same is true if I go to "Plate Verb," it shows "Delay Throw."

Turning the rotary adjusts the send level for these, but the name is incorrect.

4. Now, for bug #2, if I press the lower button to disable the send...

Result: It always disables Send #1, Delay Throw, regardless of which Send the rotary is controlling.
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