Old 02-08-2020, 01:45 PM   #201
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When playback is stopped and restarted though, it always goes back to the no-highs condition. Sometimes I have to max out the high cut, then bring it down, and as soon as it's not at 100% the highs return (ironically). It doesn't matter what alogorithm or preset it's using, it just always does this.
Hmm... I put in the high cut, it wasn't part of the original algorithms. I probably did something wrong. I guess before I set out to fix it, I should ask if it is even useful to have both high cut and damp? They are both simple low pass filters. High Cut is applied to the input signal, Damp is applied to the feedback loop. I could remove the high cut and replace it with something else (maybe diffuse).


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By the way I like the sound of the nested algorithm. Its decay is smooth. I'm guessing the original algorithm you used was tank.
Yes, I think that the nested allpass algorithm sounds the best. I put in the selector because the others sound so much different with a longer decay. They might be useful for some kinds of creative sound design, and it wasn't too hard to drop all three in there.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:08 PM   #202
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I should ask if it is even useful to have both high cut and damp? They are both simple low pass filters. High Cut is applied to the input signal, Damp is applied to the feedback loop. I could remove the high cut and replace it with something else (maybe diffuse).
The way I use it, I find high cut useful (since I use it liberally as well as damping). Using damping alone isn't quite enough for me. But I guess using a simple EQ plugin before the reverb wouldn't kill me. Diffuse is fairly subtle; I've ended up leaving it at 50% and not really thinking about it (with Room and Hall). Unless there's a way of making diffuse really warm up the sound (if it's "re-factored" to do more)?

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Yes, I think that the nested allpass algorithm sounds the best. I put in the selector because the others sound so much different with a longer decay. They might be useful for some kinds of creative sound design, and it wasn't too hard to drop all three in there.
Yes it's still worthwhile to have the other algorithms there. The nested one sounds so good to me though, I can see myself using this instead of Room or Hall depending on the context.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:16 PM   #203
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When playback is stopped and restarted though, it always goes back to the no-highs condition.
I never noticed this until you mentioned it! Now I noticed it every time!

I figured out the fix, it was a super lame failure to properly copy/paste the high cut feature from Dragonfly Room (or even better, one of these days I should refactor more of the common features so that they don't need to be copy/pasted between the different plugins). I'll hopefully have a new beta release available soon for you to test.

Edit: James, do you still experience the Dry Level problem that you told me about in an email? You said that the Dry Level wouldn't save and restore properly.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:05 PM   #204
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Edit: James, do you still experience the Dry Level problem that you told me about in an email? You said that the Dry Level wouldn't save and restore properly.
Yes, that problem is still there. I didn't notice it much until I tested specifically for it though, since when the highs cut out so much it's hard to tell if there's dry signal in the mix.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:27 PM   #205
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Yes, that problem is still there. I didn't notice it much until I tested specifically for it though, since when the highs cut out so much it's hard to tell if there's dry signal in the mix.
Hmm, weird. I tried to reproduce with the following steps:

* Create new Reaper session
* Add new track
* Add Dragonfly Plate to the FX chain
* Turn Plate dry level down to zero percent
* Save Reaper session
* Restart Reaper, which automatically loads the session
* Open up Dragonfly Plate

I tried this on Linux and Mac and didn't experience the bug that you describe on either system; it always loads the session with the dry level as I saved it. Does anybody else experience this bug?
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:16 PM   #206
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Those are the steps I followed, and I just tried it again.

Be sure to fiddle with the high cut control when starting playback. With the current high cut bug, it's almost impossible to tell how much dry is in the signal. You have to let the highs in, then make your assessment of the amount of dry signal. So:

-after opening that project, hit play.
-fiddle with the high cut control during playback so you can hear the highs.
-listen for a few seconds, then turn dry up and down again.

When dry hits 0 again at the bottom, it'll be obvious there's no dry signal (and that there was some before after re-opening the project).
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:32 PM   #207
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Pre-release 2.9.2-beta fixes a couple of bugs related to the High Cut and Low Cut dials: 2.9.0-beta and 2.9.1-beta would apply these two filters to the dry signal, and the plugin would often get into a state in which it would act like both the High Cut and Low Cut were turned all the way down.
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:48 PM   #208
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The high cut issue with Plate remains. Sorry.

Also for my intial test, it seemed to have a pre-delay "baked in" which I couldn't remove (around 100 ms difference from dry to wet). Making another new project to test this though, I couldn't repeat the issue. I'll let you know if that happens again.

Dry level bug is fixed though.

On a side note: I like how much the highs can be cut in Plate with the Nested algorithm. If I use an instance of Plate set like that (and wet/dry balanced), then add an instance of Room, Hall or Plate in series (with the highs set normally), the combination sounds great.

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Old 02-11-2020, 05:56 PM   #209
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Try out the new beta release and let me know how it goes. I'm disappointed to hear about it failing to load for some Windows users, but it is hard for me to diagnose because I don't have windows, and even building the Windows version is kind of plug-and-pray.
I downloaded the beta release, but there is no change. All three reverbs still crash reaper_host64.exe and even REAPER sometimes. Thank you, it was worth a try.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:07 PM   #210
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The high cut issue with Plate remains. Sorry.
Wow, stupidest copy/paste bug ever, this happens in Dragonfly Plate whenever the plugin host sets the sample rate, which apparently Reaper does when you stop and restart playback:
Code:
  setInputLPF(newParams[paramLowCut]);
  setInputHPF(newParams[paramLowCut]);
Even if you aren't a programmer, you can probably see my bug! I'll have it fixed soon.

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I downloaded the beta release, but there is no change. All three reverbs still crash reaper_host64.exe and even REAPER sometimes. Thank you, it was worth a try.
Aww, that's disappointing. Another person verified that it worked for him on Win10 + Reaper. Just curious, which version of Reaper do you run?
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:06 PM   #211
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Aww, that's disappointing. Another person verified that it worked for him on Win10 + Reaper. Just curious, which version of Reaper do you run?
The latest version of Reaper, I'm always current.

Laptop: MSI GS65 Stealth 95E
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CPU: Intel Core i7 @ 2.60GHz
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Intel UHD Graphics 630 (MSI)
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (MSI)

Probably not necessary to give you this extra info, but who knows?
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:26 PM   #212
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The latest version of Reaper, I'm always current.
Oooh, hmm... Mattias runs an older version of Reaper on Win10... I wonder if there is something to that?

It's weird though, because I was able to run it on the latest Reaper on Linux and Mac. I just don't have a Windows machine to test on.

Is there any chance that you're getting mixed up between the 32-bit version and the 64-bit version?
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:27 PM   #213
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The high cut issue with Plate remains. Sorry.
2.9.3-beta fixes the High Cut bug for real this time.
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:30 PM   #214
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Code:
  setInputLPF(newParams[paramLowCut]);
  setInputHPF(newParams[paramLowCut]);
Even if you aren't a programmer, you can probably see my bug!
Lol! Well I've made mistakes which are similar in nature more than a few times, including last week. Sometimes the brain doesn't quite register what the eyes see.

I'll test the new version soon, thanks!
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:26 AM   #215
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Code:
  setInputLPF(newParams[paramLowCut]);
  setInputHPF(newParams[paramLowCut]);
Even if you aren't a programmer, you can probably see my bug! I'll have it fixed soon.
Aaah, this is good. Should be a brainteaser for everyone here:
Where is the mistake?
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:54 AM   #216
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look at the second half of both lines of code. Dey iz de same!! I am no coder but I assume he intended to have something like [ParamHighCut] in the second one...

Now I am scared that this might lure me into the murky depths of Actual Coding.

Last time I did any was with Microsoft Basic!!!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:41 AM   #217
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Is there any chance that you're getting mixed up between the 32-bit version and the 64-bit version?
No, I've exclusively been on 64-bit with Reaper since late 2009. Thanks for the tip tho.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:05 PM   #218
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look at the second half of both lines of code. Dey iz de same!! I am no coder but I assume he intended to have something like [ParamHighCut] in the second one...

Now I am scared that this might lure me into the murky depths of Actual Coding.
Last time I did any was with Microsoft Basic!!!
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:51 AM   #219
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Now that the plate plugin has stabilized, I'm working on my other goal for v3: A stand-alone early reflections plugin. I've been wanting to do this ever since seeing Glenn Fricker's showcase in which he turned the late reverb level down to zero. The new plugin uses the same the early reflections algorithm as Dragonfly Room and Hall, but doesn't include a late reverb algorithm.



You will notice the "Reflection Type" menu, which wasn't available in the Hall or Room plugins. While digging around in Freeverb3's early reflections algorithm, I found that it contained several lists of numbers representing gain levels and delay times for different reflection patterns, but the Freeverb3 plugins only used one of those settings. I decided to expose some of the other ones, and indeed they result in quite different sounds. I made up names only vaguely related to how they sound, try them all! The one called "Concert Venue" is the one used in the Freeverb3 plugins as well as Dragonfly Room and Hall.

The color scheme is supposed to represent some of the pastel colors of early morning... I'm still trying to decide if I like it, but it will probably grow on me like the other plugins did.

Download the latest beta release here:
https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra...tag/2.9.4-beta
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:12 PM   #220
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So when I told you I didn't care about ER enough to have them in a separate plugin...I was wrong. This is very nice to have. I guess having all that control over ER added to Hall, Plate and Room would be nice. But having it separate is fine by me, plus I tend to like adding EQ between stages and blending wet/dry at each stage (which means separate plugins makes sense, to allow me to add other plugins in between). I may even add compression and saturation between ER and Hall/Plate/Room.

Whatever "Floor Thirteen" is, that's my favorite so far.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:48 PM   #221
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So when I told you I didn't care about ER enough to have them in a separate plugin...I was wrong. This is very nice to have. I guess having all that control over ER added to Hall, Plate and Room would be nice. But having it separate is fine by me, plus I tend to like adding EQ between stages and blending wet/dry at each stage (which means separate plugins makes sense, to allow me to add other plugins in between). I may even add compression and saturation between ER and Hall/Plate/Room.

Whatever "Floor Thirteen" is, that's my favorite so far.
Now I kind of wish that I had initially developed it this way and made Hall and Room without ER, but I try really hard to not break backward compatibility, so they are probably going to be like that forever.

The reflection patterns are literally just lists of left and right channel delays and gains, called preset0, preset1, preset2, and so on, without any other indication of what they are supposed to sound like:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra...rlyref.cpp#L25

There are actually more available that I could cram into this plugin, but I wasn't sure if more choices would really be very useful. I'm open to suggestions of a different way to present them than the silly names that I made up, I was mostly just going for an alphabetic list with memorable names.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:35 PM   #222
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I didn't catch the alphabetical thing.

If this number of presets makes sense, that is if the rest are very similar sounding to these, then maybe it's best to leave it at 7 choices. However if there are some sounds which are noticeably different and you think you can group all those presets in a sensible manner (1a/b/c, 2a/b/c, etc.) in a neat menu, it might be worthwhile.

As long as my name is in there as QA in advance of my even trying the plugin. I just noticed.

I also just noticed how economical this is on CPU, as well as Plate. It's nice to know if someone with really low available CPU wants to get great reverb sounds, they can still use this and/or Plate.
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:46 PM   #223
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Now I kind of wish that I had initially developed it this way and made Hall and Room without ER, but I try really hard to not break backward compatibility, so they are probably going to be like that forever.

The reflection patterns are literally just lists of left and right channel delays and gains, called preset0, preset1, preset2, and so on, without any other indication of what they are supposed to sound like:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra...rlyref.cpp#L25

There are actually more available that I could cram into this plugin, but I wasn't sure if more choices would really be very useful. I'm open to suggestions of a different way to present them than the silly names that I made up, I was mostly just going for an alphabetic list with memorable names.
AS someone who doesn't like to spend a lot of time tweaking, the more preset choices I have the better I like it...I'd love to see more presets in the already established Room and Hall as well...and quirky names make it easier to remember favorites...

I just wanted to let you know that your version 2.0 plugins are my "go to" for all of my mixes, and I'm grateful that you added a plate as well...the Early Reflections looks interesting, I'm looking forward to learning how to use it...thanks for your efforts...is there a way I can throw a little support your way?
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:03 PM   #224
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It seems that I am still making basic mistakes in linux, but I had previous version of Dragonfly in my own vst folder, which I had managed to get into Reapers list of VST paths. I used to have the .so files for room and hall there and they both showed up fine. I extracted the new file into the VST folder, but there are a lot of new directories and other files, not just the .so, and Reaper can't see them. That is problem 1. Where should these directories and other files go? Is it enough to have the .so files in the VST folder?

The other problem is that in trying to make this work, I at one point hit "Auto detect" which erased all my VST paths and left me with Reaper only VSTs. I managed to recover my own VST path, but now I can't figure out where Tonelib GFX keeps itself. Does anyone know? I have lost Tonelib, which is major. I would say that Dragonfly and Tonelib are my most used VSTs.

Reaper's method for adding and editing paths could use some work I think.

Thanks
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:18 PM   #225
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The only plugins you should be adding to Reaper for Linux are the VST ones, which are the *-vst.so files in the root of the archive that you download. (Don't add the rest at all.)

You can search for other plugins on your hard drive (such as Tonelib) by looking for the filename in Catfish search (such as using "tonelib" as the search term, and specifically looking for anything like that ending in *.so). I don't use that plugin so I can't help more. Even when I tested an earlier version, I opened the archive and put the files in my user-permission-based folders. (The installer wasn't really necessary.)
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:57 PM   #226
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AS someone who doesn't like to spend a lot of time tweaking, the more preset choices I have the better I like it...I'd love to see more presets in the already established Room and Hall as well...and quirky names make it easier to remember favorites...
I'm glad that you like quirky names! The weird thing about this plugin compared to the rest is that these aren't really presets. They are completely independent from the dials. Each one is just a different set of echoes, almost like loading different impulses into a convolution reverb, but with the ability to further customized using the dials.

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...is there a way I can throw a little support your way?
People keep asking me this. My excuses are always that I don't know how to monetize stuff, and I'm afraid that money would ruin the fun of tinkering around with my pet project. Maybe one of these days I'll make a kickstarter campaign for a set of more open source audio plugins.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:59 PM   #227
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new directories and other files, not just the .so
James is correct. The other files are a plugin format called LV2. You only need the VST .so file for your Reaper projects.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:07 PM   #228
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James is correct. The other files are a plugin format called LV2. You only need the VST .so file for your Reaper projects.
OK, I got Tonelib back again by finding the .so. However, I now have the four Dragonfly .so files in a VST folder that Reaper can see, but they don't appear when I try to add a plug. If a do a "clear cache and re-scan" I can sometimes see Dragonfly flash by, but they still don't appear in the vst fx list.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:17 PM   #229
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People keep asking me this. My excuses are always that I don't know how to monetize stuff, and I'm afraid that money would ruin the fun of tinkering around with my pet project. Maybe one of these days I'll make a kickstarter campaign for a set of more open source audio plugins.
I can respect that...it sucks when your hobby becomes a job (don't ask me how I know)...I'm looking at it from the point of view of knowing how much money I've spent on plugins that hardly get used and compare that to how often I use yours...I hope to see a lot more from you, and if you do start to monetize I will be right there as well...
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:31 PM   #230
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As long as my name is in there as QA in advance of my even trying the plugin.
Hahaha, this might be evidence that I'm a terrible programmer that just copy/pastes everything 😊
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:32 PM   #231
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OK, I got Tonelib back again by finding the .so. However, I now have the four Dragonfly .so files in a VST folder that Reaper can see, but they don't appear when I try to add a plug. If a do a "clear cache and re-scan" I can sometimes see Dragonfly flash by, but they still don't appear in the vst fx list.
Delete all other files (and folders) from Dragonfly that you had added to the VST effects folder, leaving only the *-vst.so files. Clear cache/re-scan your VST plugins (from preferences, VST plugins). If that doesn't work you can open reaper-vstplugins64.ini (or reaper-vstplugins.ini) and delete the lines for Dragonfly plugins and save. Then restart Reaper.

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Hahaha, this might be evidence that I'm a terrible programmer that just copy/pastes everything
Or evidence that you knew I'd jump on this asap.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:36 PM   #232
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It seems that I am still making basic mistakes in linux
Are you a member of the Linux Musicians forum yet? If not, you should join. You'll find many like-minded friends there, the kind that insist on doing everything the hard painful way for wild-eyed ideological reasons (at least that's why I'm there). There is a generous willingness to help people out, and many of them use Reaper.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:43 PM   #233
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Or evidence that you knew I'd jump on this asap.
Oh right, let's go with that, I like it way better than what I said
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:03 PM   #234
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I like the early reflection plugin idea.
I was just recently thinking of looking for an early reflection only plugin and how that would be cool to have, for when I only want a little space or room around the sound but keep it pretty dry.
Thanks!
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:53 PM   #235
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Delete all other files (and folders) from Dragonfly that you had added to the VST effects folder, leaving only the *-vst.so files. Clear cache/re-scan your VST plugins (from preferences, VST plugins). If that doesn't work you can open reaper-vstplugins64.ini (or reaper-vstplugins.ini) and delete the lines for Dragonfly plugins and save. Then restart Reaper.
OK, I have done these things. I even moved Dragonfly into another directory which is on the VST paths. They show up in reaper-vstplugins64.ini after a clear cache/rescan, but they do not show up in the fx add window, though all the other plugs in that directory do. Weird. Maybe I'll try putting the old version back in to see if they show up again.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Update: I put the older versions of hall and room back in after taking all four of the new ones out. They appear in the VST add list as before. So there is something about the new versions that is keeping them from appearing on my machine, even though they show up in reaper-vstplugins64.ini
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:21 PM   #236
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Continuing to experiment, I took the old versions out and tried inserting just the new hall and room versions, followed by a clear cache/ rescan. They did not appear in the fx VST add list. I took those out and tried just the new plate. No luck. I took that out and put the old versions of hall and room back in, which are from May 2019. They do appear.

So, at least on my machine, running the newest version of Reaper and Linux Mint 18.3, for some reason, the newest versions of Dragonfly will not display in the fx add VST list, even though they are in a recognized path and have been scanned.

I am stumped.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:50 PM   #237
Michael Willis
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I just released a slight update:

https://github.com/michaelwillis/dra...tag/2.9.5-beta

The early reflections plugin has an updated color scheme and one additional reflection pattern that you can choose. I also reduced the default modulation in most of the Dragonfly Hall presets.

I still haven't determined what's making it crash on some DAWs, but I'm still trying. It's tough because it works on two different operating systems and two different DAWs that I test.



P.S. Let me know if you like one color scheme over the other.
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Old 02-19-2020, 02:43 AM   #238
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Been playing with all four VSTs on W10/Reaper 6 this morning and all working fine. Colour schemes don't bother me unless they're too whacky or retro. I always associated Dragonfly with some kind of biology field trip.

The plates are lovely on some snare samples that I've been experimenting with.

Thanks
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:03 AM   #239
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I tried these new versions, but same thing. The .so files are in a known path with other VSTs that show up. They appear in reaper-vstplugins64.ini. But I can't choose them from the track add fx window because they don't show up in that list. I've tried everything suggested and everything I could think of. If I swap the new ones out and swap in the ones from May 2019, the old ones show up in the list. For now, I can just keep using the old hall and room, but it sure would be nice to be able to use the new plate. However, I am out of ideas.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:09 AM   #240
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What distro/version are you using? Fresh install of that version, or updated via "rolling" update from a previous version?

Maybe one of the dependencies required by Dragonfly or the DPF framework is too old, or has a compatibility issue.
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