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Old 02-11-2020, 12:43 AM   #1
Colox
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Default Tokyo Dawn Records Proximity plugin crashes Reaper 6?

Tokyo Dawn Labs Proximity plugin 1.01 (freeware) seems to crash Reaper 6 for me. Didn't do that to Reaper 5. I've done some things to eliminate this being a local problem.

The x64 version crashes Reaper every time, but the x86 version doesn't. It doesn't load right though, and can't be used.

I'm using Reaper 6.02 x64 on Win10 x64 1909

Can you confirm this happens for you too?
tnx
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Old 06-12-2020, 06:01 AM   #2
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Happens to me. Windows 10 x64. Reaper 6.11.

https://www.tokyodawn.net/proximity/

Let me check when I come back home, but I think that Molot crashes too.
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Old 06-13-2020, 05:40 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafa1981 View Post
Happens to me. Windows 10 x64. Reaper 6.11.

https://www.tokyodawn.net/proximity/

Let me check when I come back home, but I think that Molot crashes too.
Thanks for letting us know. So I was not alone in experiencing this.

It does happen on Reaper 6, as well as a noticeable amount of other plug-ins that didn't crash on version 5 either. I have tried this plug-in with every form of bridging and software encapsulation that I know, along with every combination of settings in Reaper that I see possible, and it fails all the time with no exception. I haven't tried Molot though. I don't use that plugin. It's too ugly

Unfortunately I'm sort of resigned as to hoping something will be done about this.:/
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Old 06-13-2020, 07:34 AM   #4
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Does not happen here, Win 1909, reaper 6.11. proximity-x64.dll.
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Old 06-13-2020, 08:50 AM   #5
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Molot 0.3.1b
Proximity 1.0.1
Both x64.

Working fine on Reaper 5.984
Working fine on Reaper 6.02 portable

(Windows 10 x64 1809)
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:45 AM   #6
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both working fine in Reaper 6.11 64bit.
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:02 PM   #7
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All Proximity, Limiter 6, and Molot crash for me. x64 versions crash reaper, x86 crashes too but doesn't kill reaper because of the x86 wrapper. Both on 44100 and 48KHz.

Windows 10 x64. Reaper 6.11. RME HDSP 9632.

Molot 0.3.1b - Crash
Proximity 1.0.1 - Crash
Limiter 6 1.0.2b - Crash

Why me(us)?

ooook. How old is your computer? Maybe these plugins use some instruction we don't have without checking CPUID?

I'm using a 10 year old Phenom x4 965 that I don't replace just for lazyness of installing everything again and because the CPU is still not a bottleneck for me. If I could know that I can PCI passthrough my Soundcard and run on a Windows KVM-QEMU virtual machine and never have to care about these things again...

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Old 06-13-2020, 12:10 PM   #8
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More info here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=233676
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:38 PM   #9
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I am on a HP Z400 from 2009 . 16GB of ECC Ram and RME 9632.
No problems with Plugins for years. Even my dozen VST32 still run fine.
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Old 06-13-2020, 08:56 PM   #10
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Proximity works for several others? WTAF?

My errorlogs:




I've tweaked and turned my system and settings upside down to get it to work, and it never gives me a single chance.
And I have other plugins that works like this too, for example Noveltech Character and particularly Noveltech Vocal Character. They always knocks Reaper out cold too. Always has, since I got onboard Reaper around v4.3.

So if Proximity won't crash for you, then what's my problem?
It shouldn't be hardware. Proximity 1.0 and 1.01 - both x86 and x64 - did work perfectly for me on the same exact hardware and Reaper before. At some point, after I started running Reaper v6, Proximity just refused to work like before, completely.
And I've re-installed Windows from a superclean install since then too, plus re-downloaded new fresh versions of Proximity to prevent some theoretical kind of contamination, paranoic shit.

I'm not directly accusing the Reaper version of being the proven culprit, but to a degree it is the only thing left that I can see still.
What else might be the culprit?
Might there be some configuration file or other remnant left in the Reaper system folder, from earlier use, that collides with loading it today? I already have cleaned out all *.ini files I can find.

To me it's almost like you guys are lying, or pranking me I'm pissed here ... I've even been working on a home-made LUA replacement for Proximity here, it's central to my workflow.

EDIT: Isn't Vladg a member here in the forum? I have some vague impression of seeing his name here, but there doesn't seem to be a "Vladg" user registered. (He is one of the makers of Proximity).
I've tried informing Tokyo Dawn Records about this too, but none of their e-mail or bug report forms works, and no other contact info is available.
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Old 06-15-2020, 03:10 AM   #11
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Colox, for what is worth all three vlagd's plugins crash for me. Proximity, molot and limiter6. It is a relatively new win 10 install.

The only one that doesn't crash is the GUI-less molot version.

Is someone having crashes on AMD? Nvidia graphic cards?

The software is old freeware not updated in a while, so I don't see how they can be interested on Debugging bugs they are unable to reproduce.

BTW, I don't see Reaper as the culprit, VST spec is broken, the plugin can run any machine specific instruction not present in your machine...

If you need it that much, maybe one of those VST's that hosts other VST's can load it...

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Old 06-15-2020, 04:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafa1981 View Post
Colox, for what is worth all three vlagd's plugins crash for me. Proximity, molot and limiter6. It is a relatively new win 10 install.

The only one that doesn't crash is the GUI-less molot version.

Is someone having crashes on AMD? Nvidia graphic cards?

The software is old freeware not updated in a while, so I don't see how they can be interested on Debugging bugs they are unable to reproduce.

BTW, I don't see Reaper as the culprit, VST spec is broken, the plugin can run any machine specific instruction not present in your machine...

If you need it that much, maybe one of those VST's that hosts other VST's can load it...
Thanks for letting us know. It's bad news, but still it feels good to know I'm not alone.

I have asked around quite a bit the last 48 hours, maybe 25 people, all Reaper users. Among those I have asked, this seems to affect only Windows users, where about 50% experiences a crash, and the other half of Windows users do not crash. And for those who do crash, it appears impossible to fix using software.

I haven't asked around in relation to hardware. I'm on all Intel Coffeelake hardware with Nvidia graphics. Proximity used to work fine on this very hardware, until something diffuse changed.

I'm afraid I already have tried loading Proximity in every plugin wrapper and VST loader software I know of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafa1981 View Post
BTW, I don't see Reaper as the culprit, VST spec is broken, the plugin can run any machine specific instruction not present in your machine.
I'm not sure I can wrap my brain around this sentence though. The VST specification is broken?
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Old 06-15-2020, 04:30 AM   #13
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Did you try buggy plugins compatibility mode? What about dedicated processes for these plugins?
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Old 06-15-2020, 05:57 AM   #14
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Here they work without any special options set up (no bridging or separated process etc.) It must be some system-dependent issue: graphic drivers, CPU?

BTW these Tokyo Dawn plugins are really good. It would be a pity to lose them. I hope some tech genius finds the culprit.

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Old 06-15-2020, 11:27 AM   #15
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Did you try buggy plugins compatibility mode? What about dedicated processes for these plugins?
Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I made a list of all possible combinations from settings I thought could be relevant, and ran that list systematically 4 times. Both in admin mode and non-admin mode. Then rebooted the computer and did the same thing again.

All 8 combinations under "Run as ..",
Inform plugin of channel track,
Buggy plugin mode,
Preferences - General - Advanced UI/system tweaks - Use large non-tool window frams for windows
Preferences - Plugins - Automatically resize fx windows up/down
Preferences - Plugins - Compatibility - pre-zero plugin output buffers, and reduce denormalization from plugins,
Preferences - plugins - VST - Allow complete unload of VST plugins

This did change how the plugins load. Some settings and methods made the plugin process more resiliant, in that it opened as a small square of a blank plugin window and sat like that for 30 seconds before Reaper crashed. But no setting changed the initial problem for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by juan_r View Post
Here they work without any special options set up (no bridging or separated process etc.) It must be some system-dependent issue: graphic drivers, CPU?

BTW these Tokyo Dawn plugins are really good. It would be a pity to lose them. I hope some tech genius founds the culprit.
It works for you? Can I buy your computer?

Yes, Limiter 6 and Molot does the same thing as Proximity on my computer. I drag and drop the plugin in over a track, and the instant I let go of the left mouse button, Reaper is gone. Poof!

I'm not sure about the hardware theory. It's possible, but TDR plug-ins worked perfectly on my exact machine a number of months ago, same hardware. Could theoretically be some new and incompatible hardware driver version, or a Microsoft KB update, but .. well I'm not sure.

This plugin problem is the most diffuse I have encountered on Reaper. It is super-diffuse. I think someone with a greater access to details under the hood needs to take a look and be involved to find what is going on. Looking at things from the outside like this, it just turns into a half-blind speculation game.

I had an acquaintance PM Vladg on Gearslutz yesterday, with a link to this thread, since the contact forms on his site don't work. He hasn't seen the e-mail yet.
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Old 06-21-2020, 09:27 AM   #16
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There is definitely something weird`s going on with your setup. I just opened an existing project of mine and added Proximity, Molot with GUI and Limiter 6 to the keyboard track. Twiddled knobs like crazy & all three worked fine.
So it looks like it really is coming down to something specific to your particular setup. Oh & since my Focusrite Octopre died on me a week or so back, I had to do the test this time using a RME Babyface. No difference in behaviour from the three plugins with this interface on either my studio W10 Pro machine or my laptop Win10 Home machine.
I`m now wondering if there is something that Colox & Rafa have in common with their hardware or version of the OS. Help us out with a few details...
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Old 06-21-2020, 11:26 AM   #17
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My wild guess is that this is not strictly Reaper related. Those smell like bugs in the plugins.

I happen to have "VST plugin analyser" lying around, which only supports x86.

Molot: crashes VST plugin analyser right away.
Proximity: Loads the GUI fine, but when analysing I got an error (in German).
Limiter N6: Loads its GUI with no buttons, just the static background. It can run analysis, fine.

Then sometimes I got segfaults on Limiter 6 and one time Proximity could run the analysis.

PS: I said that the VST spec is broken because I did some things with it very long ago and I got the impression that ordering of calls and a lot more stuff are not specified, so its up to interpretation of the DAW/plugin implementation. I remember Fruity Loops doing weird things back then.
PS2: I tried installing the old (2005-2010) Visual Studio redistributables with no luck.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:58 PM   #18
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Another question: Does the plugin still crash if you add it to your track via the FX menu rather than drag n drop?

I have never tried doing it that way & only just noticed that is your working method. Could have something to do with this...
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Old 06-23-2020, 02:42 AM   #19
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I have just received a happy message. It seems Vladg (maker of Proximity), in a PM conversation, has confirmed there seems to be a friction between the present make of Proximity (not sure about the rest of his plugins) and at least Windows 10. Compatibility with other Windows versions or operating systems or other DAWs unknown to me at this time.

This friction seems to be related to DirectX acceleration.

I was told, that because of this, a TDR update of Proximity is now imminent. If the same software construction is used in Molot and Limiter 6, there could potentially be updates for those as well. Unknown if this is true or not.

That's great news.
And thanks for all kind people who were trying to help.
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:49 PM   #20
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This keeps happening for me too. Thing is sometimes it works too, it depends on how it's feeling

I'm on Reaper 6.15 on Mac 10.9 using the AU of Proximity. Simply loading it from the FX menu causes Reaper to crash. I remember this happened back on 5 too. But again, sometimes it works, and I can't figure out what the factor of it crashing is but I have noticed that once it works on one track of a project it'll keep loading no problem anywhere in the same project.

Setting it to open as a separate process seems to help but it's annoying because then you have to shift the focus to control the playback.
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Old 12-20-2021, 08:33 AM   #21
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Happens to me too. I'm using Windows 10 with AMD cpu and Nvidia graphics card. Reaper v 6.42.

Instant crash when I add Proximty to a track just like you describe.
Too bad, I really like that plugin and have a lot of projects with in on many tracks. Some I'm currently working on. Hope Vlagd will make an update.
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