Limitor on master track (having to push some tracks into 0db)

[for]

Hi i have a limitor on master track (supposedly mastering done)

but i'm just making some final adjustments on volume of some tracks now

i have 2 options

either lower everything down and go from there

or push some tracks into 0db to get the volume i want out of them


my main question is

is pushing some tracks into 0db necessarily bad when limitor is on the master track?

or as long it sounds good its good?

[DVDdoug]

is pushing some tracks into 0db necessarily bad when limitor is on the master track?

No... Limiting (a kind of fast dynamic compression) is done all of the time.

Of course it can change the "character" of the sound so you'll have to decide if you like the effect. With just a couple dB of limiting you probably won't notice anything.

Mostly, limiting is used to "win" the loudness war (especially during mastering) but it could also be used to get a feeling of "intensity".

[teleute]

Originally Posted by for

i have 2 options
either lower everything down and go from there
or push some tracks into 0db to get the volume i want out of them

You have a much easier and better third option.
Leave all the tracks as they are, get rid of the limiter, and turn down the master fader until its stop clipping.

The mastering process should be done separately to the mixing process.
And final mix should not clip, and should not be limited, that’s the job done in the job done in the mastering process.
You're not going to lose any audio quality turning it down a bit and leaving some headroom.
You are going to lose quality clipping or limiting something before its mastered.

For example, it’s not that uncommon for people to put in way too much bass into a mix, I’m guilty of doing this all the time. It’s not really a problem, the mastering engineer will just cut the bass back a little. But if the tracks transients were peaking a 0db, and the reason for this was that they were sitting on top of the bass, then turning the bass down will also bring down the transients’ peak level and give you more headroom. But if you’ve limited or clipped that track you not going to get the transient extra dynamics back, but if you haven’t limited or clipped it then you will.

Don’t limit, don’t clip, turn it down a bit and let the master engineer sort that out.
Even if you’re mastering your own tracks, do it as a separate process.

[DVDdoug]

If you are going to master as a separate step (which I agree is a good idea) you can render as 32-bit floating point (which can go over 0dB without clipping).

Then during mastering you can decide if you want to normalize (or otherwise reduce the volume) or if you want to use limiting.

Or, the more common practice is to lower the volume, leaving plenty or headroom so the peaks don't hit 0dB, and render as floating point or as 24-bit WAV. Then you can re-boost (and optionally limit) during mastering.

[DVDdoug]

(supposedly mastering done)

I missed that...

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Assuming you are working on an album and it's the relative volume between tracks that you want to adjust... If you don't want to change or degrade the quality of the sound you can normalize all of the tracks (for 0dB peaks) first. If that doesn't get the results you want, lower the volume on the tracks that are too loud rather than trying to boost the quieter tracks.

If you want to win the loudness war you can use limiting (with make-up gain to boost the overall loudness)/ Some mastering engineers push the peaks into clipping for a couple more dB of loudness ("clippression").

[teleute]

Originally Posted by for

Hi i have a limitor on master track (supposedly mastering done)

Sorry I missed that too, I thought you were talking about limiting the master buss when rendering a mix.

If the tracks are mastered, and you’re just sorting out the relative levels, then yes if you want to push some up a bit and let the limiter sort it out then that’s ok, as long as it sounds ok. No ones going to notice if its just the odd transient thats being trimmed down.

But also, so is bringing them all down a bit to negate the need for a limiter in the first place.

All that said, sorting out the relative track levels is the job of the mastering engineer, so they really shouldn’t need adjusting if the engineer did a good job.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by for

but i'm just making some final adjustments on volume of some tracks now

if you are talking about tracks of one tune / song (as opposed to tracks on an album) - then no, going over 0db or going into the red on individual tracks is no problem, regardless of whether you have a limiter on or not, as long as your master track is not peaking over 0db.