Old 11-20-2015, 02:58 PM   #1
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default session horns (or other vst) editing cc in reaper

hi,

i'm a midi noob, and am wondering how to do some editing in reaper, with this particular vst, but it would work with others i have.

here's what i want to do. i want to record (or write) horn lines, but the default cc is vibrato. what i'd like to do is take certain elements of the track, select them, then use different articulations in those sections.

this is a kontakt loaded vst, and there are nine (i believe) banks of cc changes in the kontakt interface, but i want to be able to implement them in the way i mentioned.

is there any tutorial on this? i see one guy on youtube ended up opening other tracks, then cut/pasting the sections he wanted to change the articulations to those additional tracks. i'm trying to avoid having to open up numerous version of konatkt, and session horns.

thanks for any help.
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2015, 04:05 PM   #2
Kundalinguist
Human being with feelings
 
Kundalinguist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,587
Default

Hey there. I have a feeling that a certain "Evil Dragon" might be able to help.

Please stand by. I'm sure he will find his way here.
__________________
Success is just one more plugin away! And happiness is as close as your next upgrade.
Kundalinguist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2015, 08:05 PM   #3
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default

can't wait! i think i get the idea, but i can't figure it out. in this particular vst, you make changes via keyswitches, not (i believe) program changes. but they are probably related.

as an example: the default articulation is vibrato. if playing live, i can switch to another one (user defined) by hitting keys at the bottom of the keyboard.

what i tried to do was insert one of these notes in my midi data (via reaper's editor), in a selection, but it didn't do anything on playback.

oh well, i hope the dragon shows up.

thanks
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2015, 08:14 PM   #4
cfillion
Human being with feelings
 
cfillion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,771
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
what i tried to do was insert one of these notes in my midi data (via reaper's editor), in a selection, but it didn't do anything on playback.
That is the right way to do. Many Kontakt instruments use keyswitches to select the articulation. Are you inserting them at the right octave? By default a C1 in Kontakt is displayed as a C2 in REAPER's MIDI editor so maybe you are inserting them an octave lower. Also, ensure the keyswitches events are happening before the musical notes in the new articulation (some instruments need this...).

(Session Horns is not a "VST" – Kontakt is. Session Horns is a sample library for use with Kontakt)

Last edited by cfillion; 11-20-2015 at 08:36 PM.
cfillion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2015, 09:14 PM   #5
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfillion View Post
That is the right way to do. Many Kontakt instruments use keyswitches to select the articulation. Are you inserting them at the right octave? By default a C1 in Kontakt is displayed as a C2 in REAPER's MIDI editor so maybe you are inserting them an octave lower. Also, ensure the keyswitches events are happening before the musical notes in the new articulation (some instruments need this...).

(Session Horns is not a "VST" – Kontakt is. Session Horns is a sample library for use with Kontakt)
oh, i didn't try that. i'll try bumping the switches up an octave. thanks for the clue.

edit: okay, that's half the solution. i actually have to insert the keyswitch (in reaper) an octave lower than what it says in kontakt. but...i had just played four different chords, in four measures. i selected the second measure alone, and added the keyswitch, but when i play it back, it plays the same keyswitch on all the measures.

close, but no stogie, yet. thanks for the help. this could get tricky. i can sense (hear) where i'd want keyswitches inside of the same measures, maybe inside of specific notes. i may be in over my head.

and pardon the nomenclature errors.

Last edited by dmoss74; 11-20-2015 at 09:26 PM.
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2015, 10:35 PM   #6
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default

okay, i think i may have it. you have to draw in the keyswitches, starting from the first bar of the data. eg, if there is only going to be one different keyswitch (say at measure three, of four), measure one, two and four have to still have the original (or any) switches written in as well.

now i have to see if i can do different articulations, inside of extended notes.

thanks for the clues, guys.

Last edited by dmoss74; 11-21-2015 at 09:12 AM.
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2015, 07:15 AM   #7
Fergler
Human being with feelings
 
Fergler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,917
Default

The way session horns does CC is infuriating, tbh.
__________________
Check out my hip-hop, funk-rock band Theatre Crisp
Fergler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2015, 09:16 AM   #8
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
The way session horns does CC is infuriating, tbh.
i'm beginning to see that. now i see why the guy on youtube had four different tracks loaded up with kontakt/sh. that seems like an awful strain of ram.
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2015, 07:28 PM   #9
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
i'm beginning to see that. now i see why the guy on youtube had four different tracks loaded up with kontakt/sh. that seems like an awful strain of ram.
Hi dmoss, are the different articulations located in separate nki instruments or are they all in the same nki instrument? If they're in separate nki instruments then they are instrument related but if they're all in the same nki instrument then they're Group related.

Incidentally, you can setup Reaper to have the same octaves setting that Kontakt has. Just go to Preferences>Media>MIDI, and set MIDI octave name display offset to match Kontakt. I've got mine set at -1.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2015, 08:29 PM   #10
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi dmoss, are the different articulations located in separate nki instruments or are they all in the same nki instrument? If they're in separate nki instruments then they are instrument related but if they're all in the same nki instrument then they're Group related.

Incidentally, you can setup Reaper to have the same octaves setting that Kontakt has. Just go to Preferences>Media>MIDI, and set MIDI octave name display offset to match Kontakt. I've got mine set at -1.
they are all on the same instrument. it's actually an editable group of instruments, but all the articulations effect each instrument.

you can load individual instruments, as well, but in this instance, it's the group. and thanks for the tip on the settings.
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2015, 09:05 PM   #11
Tod
Human being with feelings
 
Tod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Just outside of Glacier National Park
Posts: 12,601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
oh, i didn't try that. i'll try bumping the switches up an octave. thanks for the clue.

edit: okay, that's half the solution. i actually have to insert the keyswitch (in reaper) an octave lower than what it says in kontakt. but...i had just played four different chords, in four measures. i selected the second measure alone, and added the keyswitch, but when i play it back, it plays the same keyswitch on all the measures.

close, but no stogie, yet. thanks for the help. this could get tricky. i can sense (hear) where i'd want keyswitches inside of the same measures, maybe inside of specific notes. i may be in over my head.

and pardon the nomenclature errors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
okay, i think i may have it. you have to draw in the keyswitches, starting from the first bar of the data. eg, if there is only going to be one different keyswitch (say at measure three, of four), measure one, two and four have to still have the original (or any) switches written in as well.

now i have to see if i can do different articulations, inside of extended notes.

thanks for the clues, guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
they are all on the same instrument. it's actually an editable group of instruments, but all the articulations effect each instrument.

you can load individual instruments, as well, but in this instance, it's the group. and thanks for the tip on the settings.
Okay, that helps. Yes, you basically have to place keyswitchs where ever you change an articulation.

If you want to change articulations you can't do it in the middle of a note and use that same note on the new articulation. You have to start a whole new note.

However, if you want to get that affect, you can start the new articulation early and then use controllers to crossfade them. You'll have to set the articulations up so they have their on controllers on the amplifier section.

For example, if you select all the groups associated with the vibrato articulation and add a CC11 modulation to them on the amplifier. It may already have a CC11 Expression assigned to it.

Then select all the groups for the other articulation and give them a CC12 modulation. If they've already got a CC11, just change that to a CC12.

Now you can have one fading out with CC11 and one fading in with CC12.

Once you get used to it, it'll be a lot easier. Keyswitchs work great for things like this.

something else to know is that when you use a keyswitch to select an articulation, that articulation will play through even if you add another keyswitch before it ends. The original articulation with be associated with it's keyswitch regardless of any other keyswitchs.
__________________
Kontakt Vid Tutorials->Create Outputs / Create Templates -|- SMDrums Free drums -|- Elk Video Productions -|- Tod's Music
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2015, 09:49 PM   #12
dmoss74
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Okay, that helps. Yes, you basically have to place keyswitchs where ever you change an articulation.

If you want to change articulations you can't do it in the middle of a note and use that same note on the new articulation. You have to start a whole new note.

However, if you want to get that affect, you can start the new articulation early and then use controllers to crossfade them. You'll have to set the articulations up so they have their on controllers on the amplifier section.

For example, if you select all the groups associated with the vibrato articulation and add a CC11 modulation to them on the amplifier. It may already have a CC11 Expression assigned to it.

Then select all the groups for the other articulation and give them a CC12 modulation. If they've already got a CC11, just change that to a CC12.

Now you can have one fading out with CC11 and one fading in with CC12.

Once you get used to it, it'll be a lot easier. Keyswitchs work great for things like this.

something else to know is that when you use a keyswitch to select an articulation, that articulation will play through even if you add another keyswitch before it ends. The original articulation with be associated with it's keyswitch regardless of any other keyswitchs.
thanks, tod. great info. and i'm going to be doing this as written stuff, not as a performance, but that all makes sense. thanks for all the help. i figured that if i wanted a vibrato for three beats (of a whole note) and wanted a rip (or whatever) for the last beat, i'd have to write out two specific notes.

i'll have to try this stuff out now. it's definitely going to add some time to the editing phase.
dmoss74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.