Old 11-29-2012, 01:06 PM   #1
plamuk
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any way to quantize live midi playback?
i'm not interested in recording it into reaper
just snap live playback to a quantized grid.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:29 PM   #2
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How would you move a slightly late note ahead of time ?
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:57 PM   #3
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you wouldn't.
i should have mentioned that this is something Ableton does, for example, with global input quantise and clip launching.
so you can launch a clip on time according to your quantise option, even if you hit it a bit early.
if you hit it late, i think it is pushed to the next position.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:22 PM   #4
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I can't see any way this would end well in a live situation.....
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
you wouldn't.
i should have mentioned that this is something Ableton does, for example, with global input quantise and clip launching.
so you can launch a clip on time according to your quantise option, even if you hit it a bit early.
if you hit it late, i think it is pushed to the next position.
So your not talking about playing parts with the notes quantized? I think there's some confusion there.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
I can't see any way this would end well in a live situation.....
haha tell that to people laughing all the way to the bank with ableton

Quote:
So your not talking about playing parts with the notes quantized? I think there's some confusion there.
correct.

a good comparison would be reaper's "smooth seeking" feature
which (when used with SWS region paylist) allows a user to trigger the next loop/section of a song

i want to do the same, but with a midi note.
ie if i hit the midi note a little early, and my quantise is set to 1/8, it pushes it to the next 8th note.
specifically, i'm using a home-spun monome, and i want to tighten up my timing a little.
they're playing in time. with a monome, you hit the first pad, and it steps through a midi sequence. if that first note is off time, your subsequent sequence is off time in the same amount.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:34 PM   #7
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can use jeffos's midi to reacontrol path thingy plug in.
have on a track and feed your midi in, and then that midi (quantized with reaper's input quantize or a midi quantize plug) can be used to trigger actions.

will search for the plug.
edit: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...o+control+path

posts suggest triggering actions the timing is not super accurate.
hmm but triggering the new region playlist stuff via midi the timing is taken care of. so now i'm confused as to your request/need but either or both should help. i think. aghh.

EDIT. also maybe helpful - the action 'sws wait till next beat', or wait till next bar. placeing the action at the start of a macro including whatever action(s) you're triggering with your midi may get things started on grid.

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Old 11-29-2012, 06:24 PM   #8
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i'm actually not trying to trigger/quantise actions at all, just midi notes. in realtime.

i'm alllll up in miditoreacontrolpath. i use it instead of Reaper's control path. none of my midi devices are control enabled because Reaper designates all control devices to 1 set of 16 channels...disallowing the use of MIDI fx on control devices.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:44 PM   #9
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If there isn't some Jesusonic solution for that, we should make one. The various arpeggiator JS effects should include some useful code, I guess.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:52 PM   #10
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unfortunately i cannot write/take the time to learn JS personally
but i'm a very good tester and would lend considerable energy into this initiative

here is my "monome" ... it is a set of tracks/midi fx in REAPER that turns a launchpad into an MLR style monome emulation. it relies on the excellent Piz Midi Looper.

in performance, i will always be playing to a backing track to which my quantise settings will be locked. it will be harder to keep 4+ patterns in time all together if they're struck without any tc...though i guess that's the ultimate goal in monome dexterity

http://youtu.be/zwXLBg67hK4

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Old 11-29-2012, 07:52 PM   #11
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Ok sorry for telling you shit u know! :-) Little confused about what you really want still,
you just want the live midi from your device to be quantized ( to reaper time?) before it reaches your fx/sampler etc.?

Earlier I tested a js mb quantize placed in input fx chain of track and that quantized live midi input to what ever I set it to.
Not sure if it a bundled js but def in forum somewhere.

Hope I not missed the point again! Edit: possibly have, that js effect by mabian may introduce a latency that messes things for up realtime input use, I've used it to 'realtime' quantize existing midi so didn't notice latency.
Sorry if that is the case. I'll shut up now...

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Old 11-29-2012, 08:21 PM   #12
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Ok found this post in a thread featuring piz guy and someone wanting to sync midi input to grid. No link so pasting it.

......
prolapse - Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:30 pm
Thanks for the quick reply!

Given the midi tools that you have on offer I have been able to construct a working method.

Midi note in > midiNotesToCC > midiCCStepper > midiConverter3 > Quantized midi note out.

It's a bit convoluted, but it works!

.....
Also (posted by piz)
.....

set midiccstepper like this:
Time Quantize = On
Note Value = 1.00 (whole note) or whatever u need.
Host Sync = On
SendCCAfter = On



Now i give up... Bestoluck ;-)
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:35 PM   #13
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that could definitely work...i have/swear by all those piz midi plugins.

i haven't seen piz post in a while. i hope he's ok and still interested in his excellent plugins.

this is the link btw

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=300099
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:48 PM   #14
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Yes they do come in handy, my overly clunky diy ekit setup uses a few to get cc's of a homemade hi hat controller to trigger a splash note etc etc. Fun fun fun.

Hope that chain works out
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:27 AM   #15
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(posting following a call in another thread) nym, unfortunately "quantize live midi" is not possible: well, it is quite easy to do but it requires PDC and that does not make sense in a live context.
The only thing you can do is indeed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
if you hit it late, i think it is pushed to the next position.
.. btw, I would suggest to call it "Global crapify", not "Global quantize"
"Quantize" is something else, but nd you cannot push notes "in the past" without PDC.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:32 AM   #16
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My comment was basically a kind way of saying "if you have problems playing in time, why not just get better at playing in time or at the very least to a click track"

Think I may have misinterpreted what you are trying to achieve here.
At least I hope I did.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
My comment was basically a kind way of saying "if you have problems playing in time, why not just get better at playing in time or at the very least to a click track"

Think I may have misinterpreted what you are trying to achieve here.
At least I hope I did.
Yes, in an ideal world, we would all have perfect timing all the time. But, then. we'd never need quantizing at all.

What the OP is looking for (and I've been trying to find the same thing), is functionality that is available in another DAW (ableton live) that we would like to see available in Reaper. Is that so heinous?
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
My comment was basically a kind way of saying "if you have problems playing in time, why not just get better at playing in time or at the very least to a click track"

Think I may have misinterpreted what you are trying to achieve here.
At least I hope I did.

From what I gather, this has nothing to do with playing in time, but rather switching in time.
For an example in Mobius it is called "switch quantize" - this makes it possible to switch to a next loop at the time you find convenient, freeing you to perform the next task, while Mobius switches to the next loop at the correct time, keeping things in sync.
http://www.circularlabs.com/doc/v2/s...tch%20Quantize
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:56 AM   #19
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FWIW, I did a bit of similar thing some time ago as what nym wants (I think).
This was a combination of live musicians and loop stuff coming from the computer.

I used Sensomusic Usine for that which also has live input quantize. (Only shifting the incoming notes to the next bar, not ahead of time of course.)
So as soon as the drummer played his fill I could push the 'play next loop' button and it then started exactly on the next bar.
(similar to what carbon is saying above)

Just to make a bit clearer that I see the request quite useful and making sense.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
(posting following a call in another thread) nym, unfortunately "quantize live midi" is not possible: well, it is quite easy to do but it requires PDC and that does not make sense in a live context.
The only thing you can do is indeed:

.. btw, I would suggest to call it "Global crapify", not "Global quantize"
"Quantize" is something else, but nd you cannot push notes "in the past" without PDC.
No it is not. And "crapify" would be way too confusing.

This *is* quantisation (Wikipedia: "[…] the process of mapping a large set of input values to a smaller set […]"). Much like you can quantise float values to integer values using different algorithms (e.g. floor / round / ceiling), there is no rule saying that quantisation has to be of the 'round' type. Of course in this case the bias needs to be of the 'ceiling' type, because you can't go back in time (without using a buffer and PDC). But calling it anything other than "quantisation" is simply confusing the matter (even though for non-realtime quantisation, rounding is obviously the best method).
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:40 AM   #21
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i will look into usine as well. i think i remembered not having much luck in the past. ideally i can use all freeware for this so that anyone with a launchpad can run my monome patch. it really is excellent, and if i can get Piz to keep updating his midi looper (kickstarter anyone) i can get advanced features like reverse loop modes, etc.

ivansc and Jeffos, i think you're missing the point of this request...time travel is a another issue and trust me i'm working on it...but this is not an attempt to improve the timing of a midi performance in realtime. this is an attempt to trigger clips/loops/phrases in time, ahead of time with a midi note.

it is identical to what carbon describes, just outputting a midi note instead of a subsequent loop.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
Jeffos, i think you're missing the point of this request...time travel is a another issue and trust me i'm working on it...but this is not an attempt to improve the timing of a midi performance in realtime. this is an attempt to trigger clips/loops/phrases in time, ahead of time with a midi note.
the least we can say is that the title of the thread is misleading
.. and that's what I've read (oh, yeah! I know, I KNOW..)

sorry about that, I totally missed the point indeed! haha! Ok, to trigger clips/loops/phrases in time, ahead of time with a (learned) midi note, may be "SWS/S&M: Play media file in selected tracks (sync with next measure), slot n" can help.. The "slot" should be filled in the Resources/media files window.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:10 AM   #23
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if i remember correctly from previous discussion, though, is that not timing accurate?
also, "sync wth next measure" is a little too low resolution for this purpose...i'd like to be able to sync to 32nd, 16th, 8th, 4th notes etc
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:41 AM   #24
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Sorry, nym - completely misunderstood, as you said.

I have absolutely zero experience with looping, etc.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
[…] ivansc and Jeffos, i think you're missing the point of this request...time travel is a another issue and trust me i'm working on it...but this is not an attempt to improve the timing of a midi performance in realtime. this is an attempt to trigger clips/loops/phrases in time, ahead of time with a midi note.

it is identical to what carbon describes, just outputting a midi note instead of a subsequent loop.
I don't think it really matters what you want to do with a MIDI event after quantisation. You could use the same thing for quantising a live MIDI performance just as well as you could use it to trigger things.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
if i remember correctly from previous discussion, though, is that not timing accurate?
also, "sync wth next measure" is a little too low resolution for this purpose...i'd like to be able to sync to 32nd, 16th, 8th, 4th notes etc
no, it will be sample accurate, just try with a synced loop!

"different quantize positions": can't do better ATM :/ in theory, I could sync to any multiple/percent of measures but this does not work (dunno if it's a bug or me expecting too much).
On a sidenote, if it was working, this would be the ticket for some type of arranger/sequencer plugin extensions!
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
"different quantize positions": can't do better ATM :/ in theory, I could sync to any multiple/percent of measures but this does not work (dunno if it's a bug or me expecting too much).
dude. not expecting too much. i really hope we can get this happening. whose ear should we bend? i think there is enormous live playing potential here.

just to preempt a bit, here's what i'd personally need: the ability to sync to different quantize settings and change that on the fly, ie go from syncing to quarter notes, then change to 32nd with an action, then to 1/8th with an action, etc.

Quote:
On a sidenote, if it was working, this would be the ticket for some type of arranger/sequencer plugin extensions!
this development would make people VERY happy. i came here just asking for a quantize JS or VST solution...but this implementation as described could remove my need for piz midi looper in my monome patch. i love PML, but i don't know if he's going to continue supporting it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:08 PM   #28
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quantized midi note triggers PIZ MIDI LOOPER or eventually something from SWS MEDIA SLOTS
in turn, PML or SWS spits off a tempo-synced midi file pointing at a vst or softsampler, resulting in a phrase being played in time with your project tempo.

in the case of the monome, the midi file is just an 8th note increment
ie first file plays notes 0,1,2,3..15
second file plays notes 1,2,3,4...15,0
third file plays notes 2,3,4,5....15, 0,1
etc.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:54 PM   #29
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^ that would be an excellent start.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:16 PM   #30
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Propellerheads has had midi quantise since the first version
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:17 PM   #31
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i'm doing this right now by converting all notes to ccs, using piz's CC stepper, and then returning them to notes :/

it works, perfectly, but feels clumsy. i have everything i need to make a MLR stepthru sequencer in REAPER, but just barely. i've yet to trust my reputation on it.
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Old 10-19-2015, 05:33 AM   #32
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is there now a script that can do it ?
I see cthulhu demo chord /arp quantize the note on to next step if not set retrigger mode. so if set step size to bar quantize note on without record. But i want quantize note off, because cthulhu do stop the note play immediate and not on end off step. to get no gap in live play, note on and note off should be quantize. reaper have input quantisation, but also when set notes position quantize to next value(which is in live play possible) it is only do in the recorded data. the live play is still not quantize

I see also in kirnu cream that this not quantize the note off to end of step

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Old 11-23-2015, 03:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
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is there now a script that can do it ?
I see cthulhu demo chord /arp quantize the note on to next step if not set retrigger mode. so if set step size to bar quantize note on without record. But i want quantize note off, because cthulhu do stop the note play immediate and not on end off step. to get no gap in live play, note on and note off should be quantize. reaper have input quantisation, but also when set notes position quantize to next value(which is in live play possible) it is only do in the recorded data. the live play is still not quantize

I see also in kirnu cream that this not quantize the note off to end of step
bump this thread please.

i am previewing with izotope breaktweaker and understanding this is needed (for december 2015 sale $249 got the whole package with stutter edit, iris2, break tweaker, trash...) Vst Programs like kirnu cream, cthulu, and omnisphere trigger mode in their "live" screen all do this, pushing early notes forward so the loop behavior makes sense. its not really about music talent. its just the fact that triggering a processed sample early and thus interupting the prior one can cause aesthetic issues that win't exist with just hitting the transient in groove time on a naturally tailing off acoustic instrument.

the midi from after kirnu cream can be routed as input into breaktweaker, like it can be in ableton (how in reaper?).

any reaper heads know of what i speakes?
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Old 11-23-2015, 03:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmusic View Post
is there now a script that can do it ?
I see cthulhu demo chord /arp quantize the note on to next step if not set retrigger mode. so if set step size to bar quantize note on without record. But i want quantize note off, because cthulhu do stop the note play immediate and not on end off step. to get no gap in live play, note on and note off should be quantize. reaper have input quantisation, but also when set notes position quantize to next value(which is in live play possible) it is only do in the recorded data. the live play is still not quantize

I see also in kirnu cream that this not quantize the note off to end of step
bump this thread please.

i am previewing with izotope breaktweaker and understanding this is needed (for december 2015 sale $249 got the whole package with stutter edit, iris2, break tweaker, trash...) Vst Programs like kirnu cream, cthulu, and omnisphere trigger mode in their "live" screen all do this, pushing early notes forward so the loop behavior makes sense. its not really about music talent. its just the fact that triggering a processed sample early and thus interupting the prior one can cause aesthetic issues that win't exist with just hitting the transient in groove time on a naturally tailing off acoustic instrument.

the quantized midi from after kirnu cream can be routed as input into breaktweaker, like it can be in ableton (how in reaper?).

any reaper heads know of what i speakes?
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Old 11-23-2015, 05:48 PM   #35
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haha tell that to people laughing all the way to the bank with ableton
So you would be happy if Reaper decided you hit that note too late to make this time around and started playing it what, a beat or a bar late?

Maybe I too misunderstood what it is you are actually trying to do.

I still don't see how your sequencer deciding to delay a note you played because you were late but will quantize early notes correctly is going to work effectively in a live situation.

If the Ableton users are laughing all the way to the bank, maybe they are not doing what you seem to be implying?

Sorry if I am being dumb here, I would really like it if you amplified and clarified exactly what it is you are trying to do.
And is there by any chance an online reference (preferably vimeo or youtube) which shows Ableton doing what you want reaper to do?

P.S. I am now seriously wondering if I should just butt out and let you guys get on with it, but I am genuinely curious about this stuff.
You never know, I might drag myself into the 21st century one of these days!
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:39 AM   #36
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He's just talking about clip launching which works like a hardware drum machine. FL Studio can do it in performance mode. Reaper doesn't have this characteristic as far as I know. There might be some MIDI plugins that sync to project BPM that might be able to accomplish this, maybe even FL Studio as a plugin within Reaper. I don't know for sure.

The behavior is that a press coming early is muted yet stored to trigger at the next measure start (or grid repeat zone). A press coming late is also pushed to the next measure and mute until the measure starts. Think of it as a gate that's closed except for the very beginning duration of a measure. When it's closed nothing happens. When it's open, a press triggers a pattern or clip at that same measure. It sounds complex but drum machines have been able to do this for several decades.
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:01 AM   #37
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there are 2 useful applications of this, one being "realtime" correction of early notes (push back note til next specified grid division) ala clip triggerig as described above

the 2nd would be nonrealtime, applying for instance a 1/4 note quantize w/ X% swing to incoming MIDI that is applied to the recorded nnotes immediately after the midi was recorded, saving you the need to go back, hilight the recently played notes, and then apply quantize. MPCs could do this from day 1.

both are important. the first is important for live clip-based electronic performance and the 2nd is important to anyone with hardware sequencer experience, or someone who doesn't want to be mousing arounnd so much in the midi editor...
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:35 AM   #38
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So the whole "playing a late trigger makes the part triggered delay until the next loop" thing seems on the face of it useless.
So why have people been making out like it is a good thing to have?

Ex: Hit a trigger note early, trigger is delayed so event starts on time in the correct place.

Hit a trigger note late, trigger is delayed so event starts one cycle too late. ?????
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:05 AM   #39
mccrabney
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if you're triggering a percussion loop, one cycle too late is more appropriate than a loop being triggered offbeat. and if not, you have time to cancel the upcoming trigger
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:43 AM   #40
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Ah. We are obviously coming at this from slightly different perspectives, as I thought.

For me, the thought of having even a bar of *nothing* where there is supposed to be something would lead me to never ever use a plug that had that behaviour as its default fallback for late triggering.
I mean, no percussion, no groove.
Doing it deliberately for effect is one thing but the idea of a slamming track suddenly and meaninglessly grinding to a halt for (insert length of loop here) is just horrifying.
If a live drummer or perc did it, he would get some very odd looks from the rest of the band AND I suspect the punters.
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