Old 11-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #1
608black
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Default Vocal recording and monitoring advice

Recently converted a closet into a vocal booth. Using Open Labs Neko XXL workstation w/ M-Audio Delta 1010 card. Run my mic thru the Delta 1010 and M-Audio 2 ch mic preamp. As expected, there is audio feedback from my monitors that's recorded in the background of the vocals.

Any advice on how to conquer this issue? Does anyone have a template for mic w/vocals setup? Is a headphone amp necessary?
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:37 PM   #2
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Record in cans. Mix with your monitors.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:04 PM   #3
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You can make an equilateral triangle with your monitors and microphone. Make the measurements pretty precise. Switch the polarity on one of your monitor cables to take them out of phase. They will cancel one another out and not be heard on the recording.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:03 PM   #4
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i recommend headphones for the recording engineer, and the singer, and noone else present while you record, do it late at night 4 o'clock, that is when it is the most silent. the engineer gets to hear everything on his phones the singer hears only the instruments not the own voice.
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Old 11-29-2013, 11:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 608black View Post
Recently converted a closet into a vocal booth. Using Open Labs Neko XXL workstation w/ M-Audio Delta 1010 card. Run my mic thru the Delta 1010 and M-Audio 2 ch mic preamp. As expected, there is audio feedback from my monitors that's recorded in the background of the vocals.

Any advice on how to conquer this issue? Does anyone have a template for mic w/vocals setup? Is a headphone amp necessary?
You're doing a whole lot wrong.

First of all,don't record anything in a closet..it is enough to merely control flutter echoes when recording vocals.Recording vocals in a closet sounds unnatural.

Secondly..there should under no circumstances ever be feedback coming through your monitors into the mic..it'll fuck something up..either the speakers,your ears or both.
Anyway..you use cans for monitoring through when recording vocals.Thats how its done.
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:38 PM   #6
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Actually, recording vocals while listening to monitors is a very viable option. It is much simpler to just put on a set of headphones and sing along, but for some singers, hearing the monitors and having real space filling volume affects how the song is sung. Using the method I described above will null the bleed-over from the monitors to the mic (which is what I assume the OP meant by 'feedback'). The method has been used in the studio by producers with great results, probably most famously by Daniel Lanois.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by wavedrone View Post
Actually, recording vocals while listening to monitors is a very viable option. It is much simpler to just put on a set of headphones and sing along, but for some singers, hearing the monitors and having real space filling volume affects how the song is sung. Using the method I described above will null the bleed-over from the monitors to the mic (which is what I assume the OP meant by 'feedback'). The method has been used in the studio by producers with great results, probably most famously by Daniel Lanois.
you can find that out while rehearsing and later record with headphones.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 608black View Post
Recently converted a closet into a vocal booth. Using Open Labs Neko XXL workstation w/ M-Audio Delta 1010 card. Run my mic thru the Delta 1010 and M-Audio 2 ch mic preamp. As expected, there is audio feedback from my monitors that's recorded in the background of the vocals.

Any advice on how to conquer this issue? Does anyone have a template for mic w/vocals setup? Is a headphone amp necessary?
There are a few ways to deal with this if the vocalist doesn't want to use headphones.

One is to do the trick with the equilateral triangle and flipping the polarity of one speaker. You won't get a complete cancel, but the bleed from the monitors will be reduced somewhat.

Another is to leave both speakers in phase, but before recording the vocal, playback the track and record it through the mic to another track. After recording the vocal you can invert that first track and cancel some of the bleed.

Another is to highpass and lowpass the feed to the monitors, you don't have to filter out what the mic can't hear. Cutting below 100-200Hz and above 4k or 5kHz should be enough for the vocalist to sing along with.

A noise gate or some downward expansion ought to take care of the worst of what's left.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:51 AM   #9
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Here is a video of Daniel Lanois talking about recording Neil Young's album Le Noise. At about the 2:50 mark he starts talking about the benefit of recording without headphones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrbp9Tv9tHw
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:51 PM   #10
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It is customary to use headphones for studio tracking for monitoring precisely to be able to record isolated tracks which gives you more ability to manipulate things (both sonically and arrangement alterations).

Some artists however do prefer to record 'live' in the control room (Bono is a name you may have heard of). If you don't plan on replacing and/or changing the part (ie. going for a live take just like a live show), a little bleed from the other instruments isn't going to be much of a problem. After all, live performances can be mixed to full studio quality sonics if the show was run with classy equipment (ie. nice mics - put the 58's away).

If this is all new to you and you simply tried it this way because you didn't consider headphones... just try some headphones. Most people find this method of studio tracking easiest.

My tip of the day is to suggest your singer use their in-ear monitor buds if they have a professional set (not cheap ear-buds). Magically cuts down on the headphone bleed!

The phase trick is a tried and true thing. The 3rd point of that equilateral triangle is of course the engineers chain in the control room. Engineer can grab his iPad and run the computer with remote desktop if needed.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavedrone View Post
Here is a video of Daniel Lanois talking about recording Neil Young's album Le Noise. At about the 2:50 mark he starts talking about the benefit of recording without headphones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrbp9Tv9tHw
great! do you think he is gonna get a sound like that in his small room???
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:10 PM   #12
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great! do you think he is gonna get a sound like that in his small room???
No, he isn't.
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