Looking for Rock Solid Audio Interface..

[GtrGeorge]

If you looked at my post entitled "Latency issue.." you would seee I have issues with
Me+Reaper+Focusrite Saffire6 USB
These 3 things together are not optimal. So what is?

I have a Dell Laptop :
OS is win10
Computer is Dell Inspiron with i7 2.6GHz speed,8 cores, 16GB RAM CPU
D drive has 763GB Free C Drive has 26 GB Free
So if my set-up isnt working well..what would you recommend?

[Stella645]

Optimal is a custom built desktop with carefully selected components and an RME interface.

If that's not really where you want to go then you need to start fault finding your current system.....there is no guarantee you'll simply be able to buy yourself out of this with a new interface.

Try other software to see if Reaper specific.
See what LatencyMon reports on your system.
Confirm you have configured Windows correctly..power management on high perf, USB selective suspend disabled, USB power management settings (allow windows to turn off hubs) disabled.
Make sure there aren't other apps running in background.

Also 26Gb is not a lot of free space on your os drive....how big is that drive, can you move anything to the other drive?

[noojoysey]

Have you looked at this yet;
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...-on-Windows-10

In the past, my first check has always been to experiment with buffer size and sample rate settings if things aren't running smoothly.
I haven't seen your latency post, but what issues are you having exactly?

[GtrGeorge]

I did look at that, and yes it has helped quite a bit. I now use one set of settings for midi tracking, another for audio tracking and a third for intense CPU work.
It has created a whole new set of problems remembering what settings to use and when a project goes from low cpu usage to "intense". When takes click and pop..that's one way to know. But it wastes time..and time is PRECIOUS!!

So, in a way, I feel that Id STILL like to buy my way out of this probelm because I have to much to worry about everytime I do a recording. I'd LIKE to be able to be a musician not an engineer so much.
GtrGeorge

[ivansc]

In a nutshell, RME.

If you recall, I went through the saffire 6 nightmare years ago. I resolved it all by buying an RME Babyface which os still going strong. On my studio desktop I bought a used RME Hammerfall 9652 HDSP whenmy Emu 1212m reached end of life.
Both behave perfectly all these years later. The only things that have died in the meantime are one Behringer ADA8000 and one Focusrite Octopre LE digital card. There are other equally good interfaces, but I have stuck with RME because they write their own excellent drivers, firmware and routing software.

Not cheap, but in the long run they are.

[danbb]

I had the same issue with latency on my relatively old PC running my Focusrite Pro 40, but managed to fix it by reducing buffer size to 64 or 128 samples when tracking, then switching back to 2048 samples when mixing. Didn't have same issue with my new Audient id4 interface though, possibly because it's USB 3.0 and not Firewire like the Focusrite.

[Sibben]

I think there’s at least some form of consensus that RME is the go to brand for stability.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Sibben

I think there’s at least some form of consensus that RME is the go to brand for stability.

There is.

Originally Posted by danbb

but managed to fix it by reducing buffer size to 64 or 128 samples when tracking, then switching back to 2048 samples when mixing.

If you aren't monitoring through reaper when tracking (which I assume you are hence the need for the lower buffer). But if one is monitoring directly via their sound card's mixer etc, then it can stay at 2048 all the time. I'm only mentioning because I often see those who think it needs to be uber-low when tracking period which isn't the case unless you are monitoring through or playing a VSTi etc.


There is the one-off exception of buffer size affecting automation latency but I almost never need automation changing so fast as to cause a problem. Someone composing EDM with fast filter sweeps or similar, it might affect though.

[SoulOne82]

RME

Let me repeat: RME

[GtrGeorge]

Thank YOU ALL for the input...
Looks like I am going to start saving up for an RME...Having so many of you chime in makes a BIG difference in certainty.
I only ask one more thing....I am running a UAD-2 satelite for many outboard Fx (Its really great!!!!!). Has anyone had trouble with the RME interfaces dealing with the UAD-2 satelite?

[GtrGeorge]

Originally Posted by ivansc

In a nutshell, RME.

If you recall, I went through the saffire 6 nightmare years ago. I resolved it all by buying an RME Babyface which os still going strong. On my studio desktop I bought a used RME Hammerfall 9652 HDSP whenvmy Emu 1212m reached end of life.
Both behave perfectly all these years later. .

IvanSc: Are you running that RME via USB 2.0? I looked at the specs and it wasnt clear...maybe you have that board inside a PC..I assume so. Now that I think about it.
I looked at current RME offerings...the lowest cost would be 1,000 $ USD for me (at sweetwater)....OW, thats alot of money. I begin to wonder if my money would be better spent buying Protools..and just getting a more stable environment THAT way.

[karbomusic]

Babyface is USB 2.0.

Now that isn't something to generally worry about (as far as bandwidth) as I've recorded up to 28 simultaneous tracks over USB 2 with my UFX so bandwidth isn't an issue until you exceed that.

[GtrGeorge]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Babyface is USB 2.0.

Now that isn't something to generally worry about (as far as bandwidth) as I've recorded up to 28 simultaneous tracks over USB 2 with my UFX so bandwidth isn't an issue until you exceed that.

Thank you for filling me in. I didnt know that. The Babyface is about 800 USD last I looked. Might be the way forward.
btw: I love your John Lennon quote.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by GtrGeorge

Thank you for filling me in. I didnt know that. The Babyface is about 800 USD last I looked. Might be the way forward.
btw: I love your John Lennon quote.

I also have a BF Pro but got it in maybe 2016 when they were $750.00 - Unfortunately they went up but at least the newer FS model is supposed to be an upgraded version. Fantastic piece of gear either way.


Cool beans on the lennon quote.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by GtrGeorge

IvanSc: Are you running that RME via USB 2.0? I looked at the specs and it wasnt clear...maybe you have that board inside a PC..I assume so. Now that I think about it.
I looked at current RME offerings...the lowest cost would be 1,000 $ USD for me (at sweetwater)....OW, thats alot of money. I begin to wonder if my money would be better spent buying Protools..and just getting a more stable environment THAT way.

Forget Protools & stability. Back when it was all exclusive hardware linked,, maybe, but these days Reaper is at the very least AS stable.
Do what I did. Buy used. RME gear is also rock solid in terms of hardware as well as their excellent software support.

I paid £300 for a six month old Babyface Mk 1 which is also USB2 like the newer Pro version. As is it will give you two mic/line ins & 4 outs, plus the possibility of 8 more ins and outs via ADAT. Or you could go the same way I did and buy a HDSP9652 used for a little over £200 if I recall.... Mine HAS to be at least 10 years old or more now & is still rocking 100%. Superb performance but you do need a box with a pci slot in it.

[GtrGeorge]

I see a used babyface (not pro) at 400 $ USD...but "no software" and no breakout box. Is this a workable situation? Does RME allow people to download the software,...IF they bought a used unit? btw: i use a dell laptop...so no way to use a card-slot device.
I wonder.

[ivansc]

No breakout cable? I would be sure & knock the price down to allow for that. Wondering if it`s stolen or repo`ed... In any case, it wouldnt be THAT expensive to buy a replacement or even get one made by your friendly local music electronics guy. If you lived near me, I`d be glad to do it.

Software & firmware are freely available on the RME site. If you are in any doubt, go check it out. I think you will find the original BabyFace stuff is in the "legacy" section of the USB stuff. If you cant find it, I`ll sort you out a link but it should be easy.

And once again, that babyface at $400 IS over priced, especially since you cant really test it without the breakout cable. And yes it is a cable not a box. One 25pin connector with the line/mic ins and line outs, MIDI In/Out and a phones connector. What it is also supplied with is a 1.3 metre extension cable to get all the connectors neatly out of sight. Annoyingly, I can`t find mine!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RME-Babyfac...sAAOSw2SNfFPWd

I also checked the sold records & the going price for one on ebay USA in good condition with everything it should have is around $3-350, so I would be offering no more than $275 for the $400 one, assuming you can see it working 100%.

[enroe]

Originally Posted by GtrGeorge

I see a used babyface (not pro) at 400 $ USD...but "no software" and no breakout box. Is this a workable situation? Does RME allow people to download the software,...IF they bought a used unit? btw: i use a dell laptop...so no way to use a card-slot device.
I wonder.

Here's something new (including a test!) for that price tag. Just as
another possibility ...

[domzy]

One option that hasn't been mentioned (i don't think) is a digiface - i believe this is the lowest priced RME interface. You'll need pre-amps too but you could probably pick up a digiface & an ada8200 for a combined price of about $600 new. This would give you 8 ins & outs (with room for more later if you needed)

[Sibben]

Originally Posted by enroe

Here's something new (including a test!) for that price tag. Just as
another possibility ...

Thread title says rock solid specifically. I have nothing against Behringer but it’s tough to argue they match RME on stability.

Altough the Digiface + Behringer preamp could work when you get the drivers out of the way.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by Sibben

when you get the drivers out of the way.

curious what you mean by this? I've used a mk1 digiface for many years and have never had a problem with drivers

edit - just re-read, maybe you mean without having to use Behringer drivers - yes, maybe, i've used an ada8200 (amongst other things) feeding my digiface for 4 years and have found it to be extremely stable and trouble-free

[Sibben]

Originally Posted by domzy

maybe you mean without having to use Behringer drivers - yes, maybe, i've used an ada8200 (amongst other things) feeding my digiface for 4 years and have found it to be extremely stable and trouble-free

Yes, that's what I meant. It sounds like a really good combo. You get the solid interface foundation from RME and then you can use whatever preamps you like. I've been considering getting an ADA8200 just to convert a drum machine output set to ADAT because the price is really good. What's your experience with it?

[domzy]

Originally Posted by Sibben

What's your experience with it?

it's been absolutely fine, in my experience, both sound-wise and build quality.
the only thing i would say is that it's a bit difficult to get an exact input level using the rotary knobs - so it's hard to exactly match a pair of (stereo) inputs etc.
In fact if there was a version with no mic pres and just simple line-ins i would definitely prefer that (for what i generally use it for).

[GtrGeorge]

So..I guess at 400$ USD that is why it hasn't sold yet .(Babyface)
I guess at this point I am wondering if I should just live with the Reaper problems I have. It seems I could spend 1,000 USD and STILL have the problems of plugs-ins not being found (happened for the last 3 hours!!!!)
And the latency..when I get lucky its 12msec.....with what I have.
I play professionally and am trying to get an ep out. the 1,000 USD would come out of my budget for the ep..which NEEDS to be there. How would ANYONE know I have an ep out If I can't afford to promote it?????
And would it give me 5msec latency? Would Reaper NEVER ever loose a VST (after it worked perfectly yesterday!!!!)...
I don't know...but paying 1,000 USD is not a gamble I am comfortable doing, I admit.

[karbomusic]

FWIW, I don't know the interface would have anything to do with VSTs disappearing etc.

[Concrete]

Not meaning to be 'off topic' with this thread. But, while some more experienced people are here - I thought I would sneak in a quick question or 2 I have the Sound Devices USBPre2 interface and it is blooming great-for what I do normally (soundart/design etc) BUT, I want to play/record instruments these days and it doesn't have HiZ. So it renders pluging in a guitar etc useless.Does anyone recommend a DI box for this situation, and do I go passive/active? Also, has anyone used/experienced the Rode AI-1 Audio Interface? It seems to be instrument/HiZ friendly?? and pretty cheap with good specs etc, from what I have read. Thanks.

[karbomusic]

^If you happen to have a guitar pedal that has a buffered bypass, which means it's buffering even when bypassed, you can possibly just plug your guitar into that then it into the line in. The stompbox isn't required to be engaged, this would just be fixing the hi-z part.

[Sibben]

Originally Posted by domzy

it's been absolutely fine, in my experience, both sound-wise and build quality.
the only thing i would say is that it's a bit difficult to get an exact input level using the rotary knobs - so it's hard to exactly match a pair of (stereo) inputs etc.
In fact if there was a version with no mic pres and just simple line-ins i would definitely prefer that (for what i generally use it for).

Thanks for the info. I wanted a converter without preamps as well and was eyeing an old Fostex VC8 or Alesis AI3 but the Behringer comes at a better price. They should produce one...I think it would sell like hot cakes. Lots of people use the ADAs just for the conversion as I understand it. Don't think there is much available at a decent price point. You have to look at stuff like Ferrofish and pro gear that's pretty expensive.

[Concrete]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

^If you happen to have a guitar pedal that has a buffered bypass, which means it's buffering even when bypassed, you can possibly just plug your guitar into that then it into the line in. The stompbox isn't required to be engaged, this would just be fixing the hi-z part.

Cool. I do have access to a few old boss pedals like the DD-3, ODB-3, XT-2 and DS-1. I will have to do some research. I am a bit baffled and confused with the whole buffered and true bypass aspects - like what pedals will allow it etc. So will have to read up a bit. Thanks very much for your help.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Concrete

Cool. I do have access to a few old boss pedals like the DD-3, ODB-3, XT-2 and DS-1. I will have to do some research. I am a bit baffled and confused with the whole buffered and true bypass aspects - like what pedals will allow it etc. So will have to read up a bit. Thanks very much for your help.

It's nothing that special really, back in the day pedals weren't buffered or true bypass which caused "tone suck" by just having the pedal in chain and bypassed. True bypass simply takes the pedal completely out of the circuit, buffered bypass keeps it in but buffers it to fix the issue - you can think of buffering in this sense as handling the hi-z for you. Especially, if one runs a longish cable to the pedal board, then from the pedal board to the amp...

That's often enough cable length to cause high frequency loss, buffering fixes that, the happy side-effect is that this is also the exact same thing we are doing in a hi-z input on an interface - making the guitar circuit happy so you don't have tone loss. Another way to think of it is, pedals are already designed for accepting guitars (hi-z) and their outputs by default have low enough impedance for the interface.

So it's worth a try, biggest issue is if the signal is hot enough going into a line in or not, decent chance it will be OK. Just confirm which of the pedals above are buffered, not true bypass and give it a whirl. If the signal comes in a little low in Reaper, increase the item gain, if you don't hear any noise problems, you should be OK.

[Concrete]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

It's nothing that special really, back in the day pedals weren't buffered or true bypass which caused "tone suck" by just having the pedal in chain and bypassed. True bypass simply takes the pedal completely out of the circuit, buffered bypass keeps it in but buffers it to fix the issue - you can think of buffering in this sense as handling the hi-z for you. Especially, if one runs a longish cable to the pedal board, then from the pedal board to the amp...

That's often enough cable length to cause high frequency loss, buffering fixes that, the happy side-effect is that this is also the exact same thing we are doing in a hi-z input on an interface - making the guitar circuit happy so you don't have tone loss. Another way to think of it is, pedals are already designed for accepting guitars (hi-z) and their outputs by default have low enough impedance for the interface.

So it's worth a try, biggest issue is if the signal is hot enough going into a line in or not, decent chance it will be OK. Just confirm which of the pedals above are buffered, not true bypass and give it a whirl. If the signal comes in a little low in Reaper, increase the item gain, if you don't hear any noise problems, you should be OK.

Thanks for all this info karbomusic. It seems all Boss pedals are buffered - I am now getting a decent sound+level using this method . Thanks again!

[Naji]

Originally Posted by SoulOne82

RME

Let me repeat: RME

Do you work for RME? Haha
I recommend to check some different interfaces...
Now I have RME, it is good, but there are other interfaces, too, that will do the job depending on your computer

[Sibben]

Originally Posted by Naji

Do you work for RME? Haha
I recommend to check some different interfaces...
Now I have RME, it is good, but there are other interfaces, too, that will do the job depending on your computer

The OP specifically asked for a rock solid interface, hence the RME recommendation.

[Naji]

Rme is fine, but I hope, OP knows that Rme wants money for their good drivers. For him Focusrite and Reaper is not optimal, for me it was not optimal, too, but for thousands of people Focusrite works. It is
depending on your pc. So ok, then Rme, but I would check maybe Motu, too.
So my recommendation to check and compare at least two different interfaces, there might be huge differences in many aspects.
I have Rme Fireface UC and I use it for tracking, because the sound quality is better than my old M audio C400, but the rme drivers for my pc are not better, after comparing for many days.
I checked with a project with many many plugins. Wheras m audio had no issues, the amount of plugins for rme are too much. The reason is my pc, of course. Seems to be more suitable for m audio.
So I use rme for tracking mic, percussion, bass and guitar and for the rest like Vsti (drums) and mixing my m audio does a better job.

If you produce music in your daw with VSTi and maybe a master and controller keyboard only, without real instruments, I recommend to check m audio, way cheaper and my experience as mentioned is that drivers are even better than Rme

[Sibben]

Originally Posted by Naji

If you produce music in your daw with VSTi and maybe a master and controller keyboard only, without real instruments, I recommend to check m audio, way cheaper and my experience as mentioned is that drivers are even better than Rme

M-Audio vs RME driver stability...

Twenty years of collected experiences from studio professionals and enthusiasts versus Naji’s personal, anecdotal impressions from owning one of each.

Tight race.

[Naji]

As I said on my pc, every pc is different, eg on my pc softube plugins crash Reaper and. I am not the only one with this issue. Now you could say it's the pc's fault, but it is for sure not, because every other plugin works well. Softube just have not taken one specific component of some pcs into consideration.
I am trying to say that a pc is one of the most important things. And if something works well on your pc, it does not mean it will work well on my pc, as well.
Prof producers for sure have very powerful pcs, and rme will work great with such pcs and rme of course is superior to m audio as for pre amps.
Since I am not professional, your post was adressed to the wrong person

[karbomusic]

To be clear, the machine obviously matters but that is irrelevant to how solid the interface and it's drivers are. IOW, it's kind of a mistake to say, "my machine has problems ergo the device isn't as good". It's the machine having the issues not the interface.

Your OS and machine specs are pretty old and slow (IIRC from some other thread so correct me if I'm wrong), and that isn't helping things. I empathize and not asking you go out and buy a machine but that's where much of your experience is and it is obfuscating the abilities of the interfaces and their drivers.

Obviously, "use what works based on the machine you have" but that wasn't really the question asked here. I agree with find something that works but that isn't an answer to which interfaces have rock solid drivers. And no, because a lesser interface doesn't cause pops/clicks and a better one does on a slow machine, is unrelated to the term rock solid.