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Old 08-22-2006, 07:31 AM   #1
chip mcdonald
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Default Non-overlapping vol/pan envelopes (DONE)

Self-explanatory I presume....
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:23 AM   #2
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Sigh.

/ Yes, I have wasted valuable space posting a rhetorical message and I have been suitably chastised by the message board software, hence this additionally rhetorical and redundant text.
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Old 08-25-2006, 01:49 AM   #3
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+1

Or an option to create separate automation tracks à la Cubase/Nuendo.
Ableton Live has sorted this quite elegant too.

Raphael
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Old 09-03-2006, 07:55 AM   #4
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Default going too far...

At the risk of complicating routing beyond any possibility of management, there's no reason an automation track can't be considered arbitrary data that can be sent to any and all automation parameters of any track or item.

This way you could lay out your automation envelopes independently of the sounds that are controlled by them.
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:54 AM   #5
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.. I just want the volume and pan envelopes to not overlap....
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Old 09-04-2006, 03:56 PM   #6
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You mean each envelope gets half the vertical space, like left and right channels do?
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spon
You mean each envelope gets half the vertical space, like left and right channels do?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but to reiterate...

Ala CEP/Audition:

Pan envelope is in the center; put it up to go to the left, down to the right. That makes sense to me.

Volume envelope: I want it at the top. I don't care about boosting levels; that's what the track fader is for, unless I've screwed something up - and even then there's still the track fader...

I want the volume envelope at the top because:

1) it gives you more travel to adjust the volume: you can be more tweaky (50% more) without having to be anymore careful with the mouse;

2) You can clearly see the pan envelope, what it's doing - and the volume envelope and what *it's* doing at the same time, because they're not defaulting to laying on top of each other.
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:37 AM   #8
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Seems reasonable as an option, like the one for item volumes that we already have.
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Old 09-05-2006, 12:23 PM   #9
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Oh, THAT.

I've been looking for that setting for a week or so - I assumed it just moved and I lost it.

My volume envelopes go up to +6db. I can't find a setting to change this. Even worse, that last 6db uses up the entire top half of the volume envelope's screen real estate.

I got it.

With so many other places to add volume, I don't need or want that last 6db of gain, and I agree it would give twice the envelope resolution instantly.

Suppose it were another global setting (maximum envelope gain). Even if you still have it set to +6db, I don't think that last 6db should take up the entire top half of the envelope - maybe 10%. But that's a fader law thing, and a bit more complicated than just scaling the maximum to unity. So for me, unity gain for envelopes would be just fine.
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spon
With so many other places to add volume, I don't need or want that last 6db of gain, and I agree it would give twice the envelope resolution instantly.
(cue Gene Wilder) yesss.. YESS!

Quote:
So for me, unity gain for envelopes would be just fine.
How about this?:

I would think most here, even those who like the "reserve 1/2 of the peak display just in case you need the gain" would agree that it's very rare you actually *need* to boost a specific part of a track in that manner... Particularly if you know going in "oh yeah, there's that one bit where it's too soft", you can start out with the track fader turned 6db..

SO, why not let the volume envelope default to residing at the top of the wav, and then - for the occasional need - make it a right-click option on the track fader to switch the volume envelope on that one track to the half-height display?


I'm telling you guys, that haven't used CEP/Audition - if you get used to drawing envelopes with that full width, you *won't* settle for having half that resolution taken away...
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Old 09-05-2006, 07:55 PM   #11
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See http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1157...lume%20Toolbox for a JS utility which provides all sorts of volume envelopes for different purposes - some of which default to the top of the track.
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
See http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1157...lume%20Toolbox for a JS utility which provides all sorts of volume envelopes for different purposes - some of which default to the top of the track.
May I suggest this optimization?

Code:
desc: Volume Toolbox

slider1:0<-120,60,1>Coarse Volume (dB)
slider2:0<-10,10,0.1>Fine Volume (dB)

slider3:0<-120,0,1>Coarse Fade (dB)
slider4:0<-10,0,0.1>Fine Fade (dB)

slider5:0<0,60,1>Coarse Boost (dB)
slider6:0<0,10,0.1>Fine Boost (dB)


@slider
v=2^((slider1+slider2+slider3+slider4+slider5+slider6)/6);

@sample
spl0*=v;
spl1*=v;
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:32 PM   #13
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Optimized version adjusts only one channel of a stereo file - is it complete, or a patch to the other version?

Wrong - just adjusts one channel if there isn't a blank line at the end of the JS file.

Last edited by Spon; 09-05-2006 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spon
Wrong - just adjusts one channel if there isn't a blank line at the end of the JS file.
Yeah I'm fixing this JS bug for the next release

-Justin
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Old 09-05-2006, 09:11 PM   #15
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Yeah, I fell over that one yesterday!

Thanks Justin. You can tell that I'm just bumbling about with this stuff.
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Old 09-05-2006, 09:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Yeah, I fell over that one yesterday!

Thanks Justin. You can tell that I'm just bumbling about with this stuff.
Hey no problem, glad to see people using it..

It's just fun reducing those things down too, first I was like "hey you could just premultiply them all", then it was "duh, just add the dB..."

-Justin
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Old 09-06-2006, 12:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
See http://www.stashbox.org/uploads/1157...lume%20Toolbox for a JS utility which provides all sorts of volume envelopes for different purposes - some of which default to the top of the track.
So where do I put this script?
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Old 09-06-2006, 03:56 PM   #18
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Save it to a text file (called "Volume Toolbox" with no extension) in C:\Program Files\REAPER\Effects\Utility - that should do it I think. Then you'll see it among the JS effects.
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Old 09-07-2006, 11:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Save it to a text file (called "Volume Toolbox" with no extension) in C:\Program Files\REAPER\Effects\Utility - that should do it I think. Then you'll see it among the JS effects.
\\


... and after I climb the mountain and obtain this gemstone of "Volume Toolbox", this will make all of the track envelopes move to the top of each .wav...?
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Old 09-07-2006, 07:00 PM   #20
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It provides you with a range of envelopes for different purposes, some of which start in the middle and allow you to go up or down, some at the top for down only, some at the bottom for up only. (They are envelopes for controlling this effect, not to do with the volume envelopes, though you can use them just the same way).

Also, you can readily edit the code to provide ranges more suited to your requirements.
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
It provides you with a range of envelopes for different purposes
..but it won't default all tracks to 0 db from the top...?
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Old 09-11-2006, 03:49 AM   #22
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You can't set a default fx envelope for a new track unfortunately, so no, you have to create the envelope by hand.

It could be argued that this would make an FR - that there should be a mechanism for having the envelopes you set for the default FX for a new track also to be on by default. As an option, of course.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:49 PM   #23
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Coming in 1.11:

http://reaper.fm/images/nonoverlapenvelopes.png


Optional, and you can set the minimum height each lane will be before they automatically spread apart (or you can set the min h to 0)...

-Justin
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
C
Optional, and you can set the minimum height each lane will be before they automatically spread apart (or you can set the min h to 0)-Justin
Hmm.. interesting. "Ok, cool..."...

So that means I can set the pan to the center and the volume to the top? Sounds like I'll have to pick a 3rd envelope to put at the bottom and select a maximum height - in order to split them into thirds?
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:43 AM   #25
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Indeed - I await this one with much interest!
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Old 09-13-2006, 07:17 PM   #26
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Ack. I suppose I've lost.

I thought about making a template of 24 tracks with the volume envelope all the way to the top - at +6; but the resolution from half-height up is fixed at width/6 db, while the bottom half is width/zoomed db resolution... which is flakey/counterintuitive.

I can't be the only person that wants full-lane resolution of controlling the volume. Ahrgh.

Oh well.

/ afraid of ending up back in CEP to mix
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald
Ack. I suppose I've lost.

I thought about making a template of 24 tracks with the volume envelope all the way to the top - at +6; but the resolution from half-height up is fixed at width/6 db, while the bottom half is width/zoomed db resolution... which is flakey/counterintuitive.

I can't be the only person that wants full-lane resolution of controlling the volume. Ahrgh.

Oh well.

/ afraid of ending up back in CEP to mix
I'll add an preferences option to set the vol envelope range to -inf..+0 for you.

-Justin
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Old 09-14-2006, 01:16 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I'll add an preferences option to set the vol envelope range to -inf..+0 for you.

-Justin
Cool... Thank you....
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